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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:33 pm

    Austin wrote:Viktor Bondarev: no one could surpass the combat capabilities of the Su-57

    https://aviation21.ru/viktor-bondarev-boevye-vozmozhnosti-su-57-poka-prevzojti-nikto-ne-smog/



    Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security Viktor Bondarev in an interview with "News»I highly appreciated the technical, flight and combat characteristics of the Su-57 fighter.

    According to him, the subtle, highly maneuverable, high-speed Russian fighter of the fifth generation, is able to escape from enemy attacks at supersonic speed without the use of a boost.“Not a single long-range radar detection aircraft is able to detect it, not a single anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down. At the same time, it can hit any targets both on the ground and in the air. On-board electronics helps the pilot to solve several tasks at the same time, to conduct an all-perspective battle with missiles of different range of destruction. The combat capabilities of this aircraft at this stage of industrial development could not be surpassed by anyone, ”said the chairman of the committee of the Federation Council.


    He added that on board the Su-57 you can place the most modern precision weapons. Moreover, the current range of combat equipment is not finite. There are great opportunities for modernization, for development, Bondarev concluded.

    As for the price, the senator admitted that, although it may be somewhat high, it fully justifies itself.

    “We see the fate of countries that have saved on national defense and security. And even if some of them managed to preserve their sovereignty, like Syria, it is difficult to even imagine what fabulous money they have to spend now on rebuilding the country. Much larger than those that they
    would have invested in equipping the army with better weapons, ”concluded the senator.

    An alternative translation (from Yandex).
    --------

    The Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on defense and security Viktor Bondarev in conversation with "News"appreciated the technical, flight and combat characteristics of the su-57.

    According to him, unobtrusive, highly mobile, high-speed Russian fifth-generation fighter, able to evade enemy attacks at supersonic speed without using afterburners.

    "None of the early warning aircraft are not able to detect neither anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down. He can hit any target on the ground and in the air. Onboard electronics helps the pilot to solve several tasks simultaneously, to combat with all-aspect missiles of different range, damage. The combat capabilities of this aircraft at this stage of development of the industry to surpass one could not", — said the Chairman of the Committee of the Federation Council.

    He added that on Board the su-57 can accommodate the most modern high-precision weapons. Moreover, the current spectrum battle equipment is not finite. There are great opportunities for modernization, development, concluded Bondarev.

    As for the price, the Senator admitted that although she may be somewhat high, but it is completely justified.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:30 pm

    Hole wrote:First use Kinzhals  against Ticonderogas/Burkes/Zumwalts( Laughing ) and then Kh-32 against carriers.

    10 mach Kinzhal against 15 mach SM-3? Do you solve it with more inflight maneuvering to reduce Kinzhal's speed even further? Or with more terminal phase maneuvering, which might be too late (Aegis radars have cca 1000 km radius that buys significant reaction time).

    Cruise missiles are more realistic try.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:27 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    Hole wrote:First use Kinzhals  against Ticonderogas/Burkes/Zumwalts( Laughing ) and then Kh-32 against carriers.

    10 mach Kinzhal against 15 mach SM-3? Do you solve it with more inflight maneuvering to reduce Kinzhal's speed even further? Or with more terminal phase maneuvering, which might be too late (Aegis radars have cca 1000 km radius that buys significant reaction time).

    Cruise missiles are more realistic try.

    SM-3's struggles against archaic/ancient Scud-B's with a predictable ballistic flight pattern, look up esteemed MIT professor of physics 'Theodore Postol', and his scathing deep analysis' of US SAM technology:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Postol

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 18 Postol-Theodore-Emeriti-1

    Theodore Postol is Professor of Science, Technology and National Security Policy in the Program in Science, Technology, and Society at MIT. He did his undergraduate work in physics and his graduate work in nuclear engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. After receiving his Ph.D., Dr. Postol joined the staff of Argonne National Laboratory, where he studied the microscopic dynamics and structure of liquids and disordered solids using neutron, x-ray and light scattering, along with computer molecular dynamics techniques. Subsequently he went to the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment to study methods of basing the MX Missile, and later worked as a scientific adviser to the Chief of Naval Operations. After leaving the Pentagon, Dr. Postol helped to build a program at Stanford University to train mid-career scientists to study developments in weapons technology of relevance to defense and arms control policy. In 1990 Dr. Postol was awarded the Leo Szilard Prize from the American Physical Society. In 1995 he received the Hilliard Roderick Prize from the American Association for the Advancement of Science and in 2001 he received the Norbert Wiener Award from Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility for uncovering numerous and important false claims about missile defenses.

    https://sts-program.mit.edu/people/emeriti-faculty/theodore-postol/


    Biography of Professor Postol
    Theodore A. Postol is Professor of Science, Technology, and National Security Policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). During the periods prior to taking his position at MIT he worked as a research physicist at the Argonne National Laboratory, an analyst studying the MX missile at the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment, at the Pentagon as an advisor on matters of military technology and policy to the Chief of Naval Operations, and as a Senior Research Associate at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Arms Control.

    During the period 1982 to 1984 when Dr. Postol worked at the Pentagon he acted as the principal advisor to the Chief of Naval Operations on ICBM/SLBM vulnerability, including the Air Force's Closely Spaced Based (CSB) MX deployment, the strategic applications of Navy and Air Force nuclear weapons systems, Soviet and U.S. ballistic missile defense systems, strategic anti-submarine warfare, strategic command, control and communications, and advanced sensor technologies. His work on missile defense questions included Navy requirements for reentry systems, penetration aids, and analysis of SLBM tactical and technical countermeasures to missile defenses. His duties also involved regular participation and/or reviews of activities within The Joint Chiefs of Staff, The Strategic Systems Projects Office, The Defense Nuclear Agency, and The Strategic Submarine Division in the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations.

    His scholarly work includes technical and policy analyses of strategic and tactical missile defenses, the potential effects of superfires from nuclear attacks near urban areas, the possible civilian casualties from nuclear counterforce attacks, nuclear weapons targeting practices, policy and technical questions associated with the possibility of a Nuclear Winter induced by fires following nuclear attacks, Accidental Launch Protection Systems, and Soviet tactical missile threats to NATO.

    Dr. Postol has also done extensive technical work on the question of the Patriot anti-missile system's performance during the 1991 Gulf War and technical and policy work on the implications of Highly Advanced Theater Missile Defense Systems for the ABM Treaty. His analysis of the performance of the Patriot system during the 1991 Gulf War is the only detailed and refereed technical assessment of Patriot's performance during the Gulf War -- exploiting the most extensive body of technical data available to anyone on Patriot's Gulf War performance, video data taken by the press during Patriot-Scud engagements. The Congressional investigation of Department of Defense claims about Patriot's Gulf War performance revealed a near complete failure to instrument Patriots fire units during the Gulf War, and also the failure to exploit the rich and detailed information available in the public video record.

    In 1990 Dr. Postol received the American Physical Society's Leo Szilard Award for "incisive technical analysis of national security issues that [have] been vital for informing the public policy debate..." He is also the recipient of the 1995 Hilliard Roderick Prize in Science, Arms Control, and International Security from the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) for "outstanding contributions that advance our understanding of issues related to arms control and international security ... that have important scientific or technical dimensions." During the award presentation by the AAAS he was described as "by-far the strongest, technically-trained, independent arms control analyst of his generation." He was also cited for work that "has become well known and highly valued for its rigor, honesty, and attention to detail," and for having been "a key player in educating a whole generation of independent arms control policy analysts." The AAAS also noted that he "has repeatedly presented accurate, but at times, unpopular analysis to the international security and arms control community."

    http://web.mit.edu/course/17/17.919/www/postol_bio.html
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:40 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    Hole wrote:First use Kinzhals  against Ticonderogas/Burkes/Zumwalts( Laughing ) and then Kh-32 against carriers.

    10 mach Kinzhal against 15 mach SM-3? Do you solve it with more inflight maneuvering to reduce Kinzhal's speed even further? Or with more terminal phase maneuvering, which might be too late (Aegis radars have cca 1000 km radius that buys significant reaction time).

    Cruise missiles are more realistic try.
    Do you realise that SM-3 is an exoatmospheric interceptor, of no use against Kinzhal?

    See here success estimations of USN relevant missile for the task (SM-6) against Kh-32. Summary: they look already bad enough against the bigger, slower missile, not to say against Kinzhal:

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6088-new-kh-32-antiship-missile-becomes-operational-in-russia-part-1.html
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6094-new-kh-32-antiship-missile-becomes-operational-in-russia-part-2.html
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:27 am

    10 mach Kinzhal against 15 mach SM-3? Do you solve it with more inflight maneuvering to reduce Kinzhal's speed even further? Or with more terminal phase maneuvering, which might be too late (Aegis radars have cca 1000 km radius that buys significant reaction time).

    Cruise missiles are more realistic try.

    It really has nothing to do with speed, and everything to do with interception calculations and the ability of the interceptor to get to the interception point in time.

    Think of it in terms of a game of tennis... the racket does not need to move as fast as the ball does and it does not need to move as far, but if it isn't in an intercept position when the ball approaches then it will probably not intercept the ball in the available space and time.

    If the opposition player keeps hitting the same path to the same place all the time the person holding the bat on the other side of the net can stand in the correct space and watch the ball as it comes to position themselves to be able to hit the ball back... this is straight forward because the ball is unpowered and has very simple aerodynamics and once hit follows a predictable ballistic path... sometime spin might effect that but that is often visible too.

    If you greatly increase the speed of the ball then the time calculations for intercept and the time allowed to get into a position to intercept dramatically reduce to the point where you need more and more bats... bigger bats... faster bats... but that is with predictable targets.

    When the target is both very fast and a flying threat that can manouver in any manner including speeding up or slowing down then interception... reliable interception becomes almost impossible.

    If you follow cricket, how often do fast bowlers get batsmen out because they surprise them with a slow ball... the fast ball is so fast the batsman cannot think about it, or try to hit the ball... they have to assume the ball is going where they think it is going and swing to anticipate a connection with the ball... the slow ball undoes them and they swing and then the ball comes through and hits the wickets.

    The speed a person reacts means there is no time to compensate for the unexpected speed difference.

    With Kinzhal moving at mach 10, that means it is moving at between 3.2km and 3.4km per second... a miss by a tenth of a second and you still miss by over 300m... no conventional warhead can compensate for that miss distance.

    If your interception tool is moving at mach 15 then it is going half as fast again so the closing speed will be 3.2km divided by two... 1.6km, plus 3.2km, which equals 4.8km/s... which interestingly is the max target intercept speed of the S-400, but this is closing speed, not target speed.

    So a tenth of a second miss means a miss by half a kilometre... and that could be in three dimensions...
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    Post  Austin Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:05 am

    UAC Journal

    "Twist" aerobatics! The secrets of supermaneuverability of the last generations


    https://uacrussia.livejournal.com/85113.html

    Yury Slyusar: Russian VKS will receive the first production Su-57 this year


    https://uacrussia.livejournal.com/84919.html

    - How is the work on the Su-57 program? Does this plane have prospects in India?


    - During the Army-2018 forum, we signed two contracts with the Ministry of Defense for the manufacture and supply of fifth-generation Su-57 multi-function fighter jets and MiG-35 multi-purpose aviation complexes. The first production aircraft Su-57 will enter the VKS this year. Representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Russia stressed then that the VKS in the near future plans to receive 15 serial machines. At the end of last year, flight tests of the Su-57 with the engine of the second stage began in Zhukovsky.

    We have repeatedly said that we are open to working with India on this program. India is traditionally Russia's largest partner in the aircraft industry. This applies both to the supply of various types of Russian equipment to the Indian market, and joint production programs. Within the framework of the Make in India format, our Indian colleagues consistently develop the industrial potential of key sectors of the economy, including aircraft construction. This is an important opportunity and a niche for KLA. We know and understand this market well, we have traditionally open and constructive relations with key Indian partners that have been established over the years. I think that the ways of mutually beneficial cooperation and on the fifth generation aircraft will be found.
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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:11 am

    Max. range of AN/SPY-1 radar is closer to 600km. Theoretically. In reality they can´t even see a supertanker heading in their direction.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:56 pm

    A downside of too high speed, interesting.

    Also another reason for speeding up Su-57 production. Imagine few Kinzhal-carrying Su-57s (permanently) based in Hmeymim. It would make Arleigh Burkes visiting Black sea look silly. I wonder if Su-57 has actually fired a Kinzhal over the course of testing. I know if fired Kh-59 in Syria, but again it's much lighter missile (cca 900 kg vs. 3800 kg). Perhaps izdeliye 30 will be required so that such heavy load won't deteriorate overall flight performance.
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    Post  Hole Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:36 pm

    Burkes visiting Black Sea is silly even today. Even "experts" in the west notice it. But the centre of the Black Sea are international waters so you can do nothing against it. Would be nice it the west could acknowledge it when russian ships travel trough the channel or visiting the caribean.

    By the way… if you really want to stick it to them, base some MiG-31´s with Kinzhals on Cuba. Very Happy
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:54 am

    A downside of too high speed, interesting.

    Speed in an interceptor is certainly not a bad thing... there is a reason why the MiG-31 can sustain mach 2 plus flight speeds operationally.

    When a threat is detected a high speed interceptor means you get to intercept the target further from its target... computers will always calculate interception solutions in near real time so if the target moves or changes its trajectory or speed then a faster interceptor can get to the new interception window whereas a slower one might not be able to make it...

    For instance a threat is coming in and your interceptor missile is on its way to the interception point... but as it approaches the incoming threat turns... after 5 seconds it is clear from the new track it has turned 5 degrees horizontally, which means the intercept point your interception missile is heading for has now shifted... say 20km to one side... the speed didn't change so the interception time is the same... does you interceptor missile have the time to get to the new interception point in time?

    The new trajectory of your interceptor missile change its time lines... remember the original interception point is calculated based on both the speed of the incoming target but also the speed of your interceptor... the faster your interceptor the further away from the launch position the interception point will be... when the incoming threat changes its trajectory and creates a new interception problem so your interceptor starts where it is now it is in flight and is burning fuel... the computer needs to calculate the turn it needs to make and then the interception point between the two now high speed moving objects... because of the extra time needed to move the extra distance that was not previously included in the interception calculation the new intercept point might be 50km closer to the target... but that is OK... but then the incoming threat speeds up and climbs 10 degrees... and the computer calculates the new intercept point but their isn't one.... the interceptor they have launched had to manouver too much and does not have the energy to now climb to cross any part of the incoming threats potential flight path... so you launch another missile... with the new intercept solution for the incoming threat... and then the incoming threat turns again... every second it is 3km closer...

    Also another reason for speeding up Su-57 production. Imagine few Kinzhal-carrying Su-57s (permanently) based in Hmeymim. It would make Arleigh Burkes visiting Black sea look silly. I wonder if Su-57 has actually fired a Kinzhal over the course of testing. I know if fired Kh-59 in Syria, but again it's much lighter missile (cca 900 kg vs. 3800 kg). Perhaps izdeliye 30 will be required so that such heavy load won't deteriorate overall flight performance.

    MiG-31s offer better missile performance and are already Kinzhal ready, while Backfires offer four Kinzhals per aircraft, but the Americans would be pretty stupid to send any valuable ships to Lake Black Sea... only an idiot would put their ships in a barrel if they didn't have to...

    The payload capacity of the Su-57 is supposed to be 10 tons so I don't see kinzhal being a problem.... but in terms of speed and altitude the MiG-31 would be platform of choice.
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:00 am

    The above discussion is why the US will arm its ABM missiles with nuclear warheads. I have been saying this for years and
    the recent US pullout of the INF confirms it. Not only is Aegis ashore a direct violation of the INF since it can host nuclear armed
    cruise missiles, its is also a violation because the ABM missiles will be nuclear armed.

    The problem for the Yanquis is that the most recent Russian glider tech can move the ICBM warhead target far enough away as to
    render even nuclear armed ABM missiles useless.

    Sucks to be master of the universe wannabes.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:29 am

    a faster interceptor can get to the new interception window  whereas a slower one might not be able to make it

    My point is that it wouldn't have to. If fast interceptor is launched and then incoming missile turns, when the interceptor gets the command to turn it will be far from the missile and will lack fuel to go on. Now if we have a dense radar network (or many AWACS airplanes), slower - supersonic interceptor can be launched very early. After small change in trajectory of the incoming misisile, the interceptor won't be far from the new trajectory. If it turns a little bit and has a good chance of hitting the missile, unless it turns immediately before the impact. All the inflight maneuvering will this way make little sense.

    If Kinzhal's range (excluding carrier's range) is 1000 km. Even if it would fly the entire time at 10 mach, if you detect the launch early, you still have 5 min until the impact. Assuming no time required to launch the missile, an interceptor flying at 5 mach will cover about 500 km in this time and meet the missile after 2-3 min. So this would be the second layer of defence. I assumed that the missile is turning by little, rarely and randomly, ie not when (if) it detects the interceptor.

    problem for the Yanquis is that the most recent Russian glider tech can move the ICBM warhead target far enough away as to
    render even nuclear armed ABM missiles useless.

    Like they could tell real warheads from decoys in the first place. If US actually deploys anything like this in Europe, Russians can increase Kinzhal's size a bit to put several warheads/decoys inside.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:44 am

    Generally the interceptor missiles are located close to the target they are protecting, or at least between the target and the incoming attack weapon... if that is not the case then there are problems for the defence... and obviously the attacker has satellites and knows where Patriot batteries are most of the time, because they are mobile... just not very...
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:Generally the interceptor missiles are located close to the target they are protecting, or at least between the target and the incoming attack weapon... if that is not the case then there are problems for the defence... and obviously the attacker has satellites and knows where Patriot batteries are most of the time, because they are mobile... just not very...

    The closer the interceptor missiles are to their defended target the better the chance of defending against an incoming attack, whatever the direction it comes from. The greater the distance the narrower the arc of defence is. This is an increasing problem for the US, with its big ABM sites in Alaska seemingly defending the whole of the US (apart from any AEGIS ships around the coast, whilst the direction that the potential incoming are coming from is increasing.
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    Post  LMFS Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:26 pm

    kvs wrote:The above discussion is why the US will arm its ABM missiles with nuclear warheads.   I have been saying this for years and
    the recent US pullout of the INF confirms it.   Not only is Aegis ashore a direct violation of the INF since it can host nuclear armed
    cruise missiles, its is also a violation because the ABM missiles will be nuclear armed.  

    The problem for the Yanquis is that the most recent Russian glider tech can move the ICBM warhead target far enough away as to
    render even nuclear armed ABM missiles useless.

    Sucks to be master of the universe wannabes.
    Yeah, problem is SM-3 is a kinetic interceptor of very limited size, most probably incompatible to be equipped with a nuclear head. And it is, if I am not wrong, the only ABM system carried on board of US ships + AEGIS ashore. So they would need to substitute all that and it wont be cheap
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:55 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    a faster interceptor can get to the new interception window  whereas a slower one might not be able to make it

    My point is that it wouldn't have to. If fast interceptor is launched and then incoming missile turns, when the interceptor gets the command to turn it will be far from the missile and will lack fuel to go on. Now if we have a dense radar network (or many AWACS airplanes), slower - supersonic interceptor can be launched very early. After small change in trajectory of the incoming misisile, the interceptor won't be far from the new trajectory. If it turns a little bit and has a good chance of hitting the missile, unless it turns immediately before the impact. All the inflight maneuvering will this way make little sense.


    Kinzhal flies 3km/s. Changes trajectory  bit ,  US radar notices  after course is different (or not) and sends coordinates to Aegis cruiser. It sends command to SM-3 changes its course but... this is not immediately.

    1 second of delay is 3km away, 0.1 is 300m . Are you sure it is so easy ti hit with kinetic interceptor?



    If Kinzhal's range (excluding carrier's range) is 1000 km.

    Zircon's range is 1000km+ so no need to use Kinzhal in such case.


    problem for the Yanquis is that the most recent Russian glider tech can move the ICBM warhead target far enough away as to
    render even nuclear armed ABM missiles useless.  

    Like they could tell real warheads from decoys in the first place. If US actually deploys anything like this in Europe, Russians can increase Kinzhal's size a bit to put several warheads/decoys inside.


    Why would you expect only 1 Kinzhal  flying at first place? 12 Tu-22m3m can carry 48  Kinzhls. Or 72 GUZRS. If they're nuclear tipped then only ONE is enough to take down the whole CSG.

    How many SM-3 are needed to intercept 1 Kizhal? 10?
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:30 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    kvs wrote:The above discussion is why the US will arm its ABM missiles with nuclear warheads.   I have been saying this for years and
    the recent US pullout of the INF confirms it.   Not only is Aegis ashore a direct violation of the INF since it can host nuclear armed
    cruise missiles, its is also a violation because the ABM missiles will be nuclear armed.  

    The problem for the Yanquis is that the most recent Russian glider tech can move the ICBM warhead target far enough away as to
    render even nuclear armed ABM missiles useless.

    Sucks to be master of the universe wannabes.
    Yeah, problem is SM-3 is a kinetic interceptor of very limited size, most probably incompatible to be equipped with a nuclear head. And it is, if I am not wrong, the only ABM system carried on board of US ships + AEGIS ashore. So they would need to substitute all that and it wont be cheap

    Nuclear bombs the size of the ones that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki can fit in a brief case. One kilogram of Pu is not 3 meters in diameter
    and the high explosives used for Fat Man and Little Boy are a total joke compared to the modern high energy density explosives.

    https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/604623/why-no-one-will-ever-build-another-nagasaki-type-bomb/

    Explosives. The Mark 3 prototypes used an outer fast-burning layer of Composition B high explosive over a middle layer of slow burning Barotol and then another layer of Comp B. There were 32 of these “explosive lenses” and the whole system was designed to create a perfectly spherical shock wave that would evenly compress the core allowing the fission reaction to take place. One early avenue of post war research was into more efficient high explosives which could generate more compression with less weight and bulk. Modern high performance explosives can deliver greater performance in a layer only 1-2 inches thick and weighing on the order of tens of pounds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)

    The Arrow has a 150 kg warhead. I could not find any data on the SM-3. But I bet it is over 100 kg. Clearly it
    can be replaced by a nuclear device that would fry any ICBM warhead in a 300 m radius. It would even deflect
    it under exo-atmospheric conditions which will result in failure to hit the target.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:17 pm

    Kinzhal flies 3km/s. Changes trajectory  bit

    Let's be fair: Kinzhal flies 3 km/s, changes trajectory, doesn't fly 3 km/s anymore. Repeat that several times to get actual speed at the interception point. Considering the missile can maneuver in all stages of the flight, if this actually happens, max speed probably can't be achieved at all. And slower speed makes everything easier for the interceptor...

    How probable is actual interception depends on many factors, like evasive maneuvers. If you maneuver at high speed, you change trajectory a lot and the interceptor may run out of fuel. But if you maneuver at slow speed, the new trajectory may be much more achievable for the interceptor.  

    Zircon's range is 1000km+ so no need to use Kinzhal in such case.

    I wonder how many imaginary Ticonderogas can imaginary Zircons on Leaders take out right now.

    Why would you expect only 1 Kinzhal  flying at first place?

    Because that's how many Migs and Sukhois can carry.

    If they decide for Tu-22M: only one bomber regiment in the south should be equipped with Kinzhals, so 20 aircraft. 80 Kinzhals. You can attack a certain number of ships in the Mediterranean with this. But what if the Russians want to increase their capabilities? Three warheads per missile offers 240 missiles and decoys. Good luck AAD in telling the difference.
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:37 pm

    Interception can't happen at trajectory change because for every second it changes trajectory, the ABM systems calculation of BM's trajectory changes thus at every given second, it has to recalvulate the ABM's trajectory which then loses most of it's energy in order to intercept. At that point, it becomes useless.

    Why Khinzal won't fly exactly on it's own I'd because more than one MiG-31K will be flying in an air wing to launch it's missile. So expect about 3 or more flying at one given time.
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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:04 pm

    SM-3 works only against straight flying objects outside of the atmosphere. It is programmed before launch and has no warhead, only kinetic energy. It can´t shoot down Kinzhal or Zircon or even some old KSR-5.


    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 18 24601510

    No or different optic on this one.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:22 pm

    US missiles tend to have long range + slow speed. Running out of fuel is the last problem you have with this kind of missiles. And maneuvering 5 mach Kinzhal is not as bad as 10 mach Kinzhal. Slow interceptor will be just a bit out of new trajectory after the change so everything would be possible. Take SM-6 with increased 40 km ceiling and let me know how the tests go.

    Even one missile could be enough for a CSG, but ships can be spread wide apart. Around 10 Mig-31Ks should be operational by now and even if they send out all of them, it's not enough for a massive conventional scenario. Do Russians want to dominate Black sea or the entire Mediterranean sea goddamnit Rolling Eyes
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    Post  LMFS Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:18 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:How many SM-3 are needed to intercept 1 Kizhal? 10?
    Not even 10 million, the missile is not meant for endoatmospheric interception...

    kvs wrote:The Arrow has a 150 kg warhead. I could not find any data on the SM-3. But I bet it is over 100 kg. Clearly it
    can be replaced by a nuclear device that would fry any ICBM warhead in a 300 m radius. It would even deflect
    it under exo-atmospheric conditions which will result in failure to hit the target.
    SM-3 has no warhead, only a kinetic interceptor with seeker + actuators. It is all meant to operate in space. So, even when I agree that a small nuclear warhead could be included in an interceptor, the problem with SM-3 is that it was developed for compatibility with VLS Mk-41 and that is simply too small for the task. They are making the missile continuously bigger and bigger with each new version but the space inside the cell is not growing. They will eventually need a bigger cell and a bigger missile.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:38 pm

    Doomed to Fail: Why Russia's Stealth Su-57 Is In Serious Trouble
    Is there any truth in this statement?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:46 pm

    Kinzhal flies 3km/s. Changes trajectory  bit

    Let's be fair: Kinzhal flies 3 km/s, changes trajectory, doesn't fly 3 km/s anymore. Repeat that several times to get actual speed at the interception point. Considering the missile can maneuver in all stages of the flight, if this actually happens, max speed probably can't be achieved at all. And slower speed makes everything easier for the interceptor...

    1) if you assume it has no propulsion and makes sharp turns

    2) if you slow down to 7Ma then 2 km/s is still 200m - 0,1s  , 100 in 0,05s , 50m in 0.025s, minf you got kinetic kill only

    3) how many other interceptors can intercept it in samey time? form 40-50km height you have  20s till boom. Try to find your missile and coordinate with others  translate to motion in 0,01 sec.

    4) now imagine 24-36 are coming same time



    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    Zircon's range is 1000km+ so no need to use Kinzhal in such case.
    I wonder how many imaginary Ticonderogas can imaginary Zircons on Leaders take out right now.

    if Zircon is imaginary then what to discuss? Russians re dead. But not todsy and not in 10-15 years.

    “We don't have any defense that could deny the employment of such a weapon against us, so our response would be our deterrent force, which would be the triad and the nuclear capabilities that we have to respond to such a threat,” Hyten told the Senate Armed Services Committee.
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380364-china-russia-eclipse-us-in-hypersonic-missiles-prompting-fears



    V wrote:
    Why would you expect only 1 Kinzhal  flying at first place?

    Because that's how many Migs and Sukhois can carry.

    Never wondered   why 30 Tu-30m3m re modernized for?   i would not focus on Kinzhals IMHO this is only a stopgap.  GZUR  is supposed to have 1500km range (missile only) + 6 fits into bomb bay. T-160 can carry 2x6 .

    Theoretically first stage should fly 6-8Ma and next 12-14Ma
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:53 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Doomed to Fail: Why Russia's Stealth Su-57 Is In Serious Trouble
    Is there any truth in this statement?

    warisboring? wow nd how many times their "anal-ysis" was actually correct? can you name 3? I cannot.

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