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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Rasisuki Nebia
    Rasisuki Nebia

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    Post  Rasisuki Nebia Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:33 pm

    I think most agree that they're behind in the field of shipbuilding, with that said the pace they've been improving is really not bad considering how rough the last 20 years were for Russia

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    Arrow

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    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:55 pm

    Not only ships. Watch the amazing F 35 production bluntly.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:12 pm

    Rasisuki Nebia wrote:I think most agree that they're behind in the field of shipbuilding, with that said the pace they've been improving is really not bad considering how rough the last 20 years were for Russia

    Their problems are the bad infrastructure and lack of investment in the navy, ground and air forces have the priority.

    The ships they make are good. Compare that to the German frigates that are upside down or the US freedom class that is totally useless.

    Japan/south korea make US ships and not their own designs even if they have a nice naval industry.

    UK destroyers were louder than carriers and they suck. Their QE2 carriers are a failure as a concept (based around f-35 and don't have a real landing zone because of the skijump).

    Chinese have lot of issues on engines. And their ships have still to prove something.

    Only France and Italy know how to make something good in the west and surpringly they are not that expensive but they lack good weapons.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:06 am

    The US has been using this method for a long time. You can see how they are doing incredibly fast production of Virginia.
    Russia is still far from having such capabilities.

    Russia does not need enormous numbers of new ships and subs for the moment.

    New ship building technologies didn't just fall from the sky, Russia paid France (for Mistrals) and South Korea (various new shipyards) for boat building technologies and techniques.

    I think most agree that they're behind in the field of shipbuilding, with that said the pace they've been improving is really not bad considering how rough the last 20 years were for Russia

    They have gone from cold war situation to having to make vastly more advanced and capable vessels over a period of very few orders and not a lot of commercial orders either... the fact that they still exist is a miracle, yet they seem to be coping with the jobs they have been getting despite funding not being up front... remember it is not just a shipyard, but also companies and sub contractors that make parts and provide materials that need to perform properly.

    You can boast about how wonderful Virginia Class sub production has been going but how much of it with substandard steel that could fail in certain operational conditions.

    Not only ships. Watch the amazing F 35 production bluntly.

    F-35 production is a joke, that aircraft has so many problems... many of them quite fundamental, yet they blindly keep making the things like nothing is wrong... that is not something to be proud of.

    Their problems are the bad infrastructure and lack of investment in the navy, ground and air forces have the priority.

    And that is key because their Navy and shipping fleet are not a priority or focus... but in the near future they are going to have to focus more and more on trade partners who really do want to trade fairly who don't share a land border with Russia, so shipping becomes a rather more important component of their economy.

    The ships they make are good. Compare that to the German frigates that are upside down or the US freedom class that is totally useless.

    Another good point... the Corvettes they are building are better than most western frigates and destroyers, and are rather better than the products the amazing US MIC have come up with in the last few years.... need I point out Ford class carriers, Zumwalt class destroyers, and LCS class bits of crap?

    Their solution to the LCS fiasco was an european frigate not that much different from a Russian Gorshkov conceptually.


    UK destroyers were louder than carriers and they suck.

    Not to mention overheating propulsion systems... and the less said about SSKs the better...

    The main problem for the Russians is that they still have a lot of stuff left over from the cold war and not enough to replace it... but they have set in motion plans to create modern modular capable new ship designs... they have a variety of fleets in different situations and environments and honestly one Corvette design likely wont cut it in all the different situations, but larger ships can be more flexible and dynamic, so a couple of Corvette designs, and a single Frigate and Destroyer and Cruiser type is probably what they will need... once they are sorted they should be able to start producing them in numbers... that is the point of standardisation and modular design... claiming they are shit because they are not mass producing them now is naive... you have to check the product is good before putting it into mass production because like the F-35 after you made 1,000 planes you might realise that there is a fundamental problem that creates a range of issues if it is not changed, so those first 1,000 planes distributed out to users who find all these faults now have to return those planes to get major changes and repairs made... which might take a while and be very expensive and result in a plane that does what it was supposed to in the first place... so you get a plane that is too expensive and doesn't work and make it much more expensive to get it to work properly... when you know its primary feature of stealth already does not work when radars in Russia are tracking them operating on the Iran Iraq border.

    They could have been using F-16s for that job... would have been faster, much cheaper, longer ranged, better payload.... and not stealthy either...

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