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    Russian Towns, Cities / Urban Development

    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:22 am

    Gazprom presented a project for the construction of the third tower within the framework of the Lakhta Center

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:23 pm

    It comes with trees! Cool

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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:54 pm

    Hole wrote:It comes with trees! Cool

    I think it is in itself a nice concept. But this is a vanity project and not a practical building.

    Skyscrapers do not make sense in a city like St. Petersburg. There is a height limitation and there
    is no real estate pressure like Manhattan where skyscrapers make sense.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:38 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Hole wrote:It comes with trees! Cool

    I think it is in itself a nice concept.   But this is a vanity project and not a practical building.  

    Skyscrapers do not make sense in a city like St. Petersburg.  There is a height limitation and there
    is no real estate pressure like Manhattan where skyscrapers make sense.

    You are spoiling all the fun No Laughing

    But seriously, F_P described a few days ago perfectly the concept. This whole Gazprom sector is located in the middle of nowhere, just well communicated with the remaining part of Peter. It used to be a dacha area, but most of those are left for 30+ years. That is why it is so easy to make propaganda shoots, with the Lachta Tower in the background, while some suburban dacha ruins in the front.
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    Post  calripson Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:03 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Hole wrote:It comes with trees! Cool

    I think it is in itself a nice concept.   But this is a vanity project and not a practical building.  

    Skyscrapers do not make sense in a city like St. Petersburg.  There is a height limitation and there
    is no real estate pressure like Manhattan where skyscrapers make sense.

    Complete waste of money to display corporate vanity.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:32 pm

    To be fair, St. Petersburg itself has been a propaganda project since 1703. And it has worked very well, the city now accounts for a not insignificant fraction of the entire country's economy.
    It would have never cemented itself were it not for all the excessively expensive vanity projects of past Russian Tsars.

    I cautiously welcome the move from being the Venice of the North towards being the Dubai of the North russia
    As long as we don't lose our heritage while doing so.

    St. Petersburg needs to become a truly global city and attract people from all over the world. Currently Moscow is the only Russian city that can claim such a title but St. Petersburg certainly has the potential

    3 of the tallest skyscrapers in Europe, but well on the outskirts of the historic city, will I think encourage more people to visit it, and to do business here. Such architecture can only be found here.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:55 pm

    flamming_python wrote:To be fair, St. Petersburg itself has been a propaganda project since 1703. And it has worked very well, the city now accounts for a not insignificant fraction of the entire country's economy.
    It would have never cemented itself were it not for all the excessively expensive vanity projects of past Russian Tsars.
    I cautiously welcome the move from being the Venice of the North towards being the Dubai of the North russia
    As long as we don't lose our heritage while doing so.
    St. Petersburg needs to become a truly global city and attract people from all over the world. Currently Moscow is the only Russian city that can claim such a title but St. Petersburg certainly has the potential
    3 of the tallest skyscrapers in Europe, but well on the outskirts of the historic city, will I think encourage more people to visit it, and to do business here. Such architecture can only be found here.

    You know the drill buddy. If one takes out 2-3 biggest cities in the UK or US, half of the economy is gone either. That is nothing really spectacular or unexpected.
    What shocked me, is a fact that Gazprom cluster brought 30k jobs into Peter. This is something worth distribution, as we don't talk about the grocery store assistant salary level.
    But some high paid jobs, that can make a real difference.
    If you can give a whole area for high added value business, build the world's tallest skyscrapers to show the real face of modern Russia ... See no disadvantages here.
    I suppose those will associate any newborn business projects along with Russia, and a professional trader or agent won't be glued to either Pete or Moscow, in the very future.
    If they are to pump 100bcm of gas into China, they must secure the background there. And I don't mean the Vlad only.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:59 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:To be fair, St. Petersburg itself has been a propaganda project since 1703. And it has worked very well, the city now accounts for a not insignificant fraction of the entire country's economy.
    It would have never cemented itself were it not for all the excessively expensive vanity projects of past Russian Tsars.
    I cautiously welcome the move from being the Venice of the North towards being the Dubai of the North russia
    As long as we don't lose our heritage while doing so.
    St. Petersburg needs to become a truly global city and attract people from all over the world. Currently Moscow is the only Russian city that can claim such a title but St. Petersburg certainly has the potential
    3 of the tallest skyscrapers in Europe, but well on the outskirts of the historic city, will I think encourage more people to visit it, and to do business here. Such architecture can only be found here.

    You know the drill buddy. If one takes out 2-3 biggest cities in the UK or US, half of the economy is gone either. That is nothing really spectacular or unexpected.
    What shocked me, is a fact that Gazprom cluster brought 30k jobs into Peter. This is something worth distribution, as we don't talk about the grocery store assistant salary level.
    But some high paid jobs, that can make a real difference.
    If you can give a whole area for high added value business, build the world's tallest skyscrapers to show the real face of modern Russia ... See no disadvantages here.
    I suppose those will associate any newborn business projects along with Russia, and a professional trader or agent won't be glued to either Pete or Moscow, in the very future.
    If they are to pump 100bcm of gas into China, they must secure the background there. And I don't mean the Vlad only.

    All sorts of skyscraper projects have been floated for Vladivostok over the past 10 years but the winds in the region pose a problem for such construction. Nothing insurmountable I'd imagine, but it's just added costs, and around Vladivostok there is plenty of space to expand. For now, it's still too small a city. Needs to attract some more immigration from Russia and the Asia-Pacific region. The new Sputnik satellite-town they're planning to build in between Vladivostok and Artyom might help with that; essentially gluing all 3 places into a million-people conglomerate, and with a better space for some skyscrapers too.

    But basically skyscraper construction I can foresee in 4 places, and those are Moscow, St. Petersburg, Ekaterinburg (which has a few already) and Vladivostok.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:10 pm

    Vlad is kind of brother city to San Francisco. They share the landscape.
    It is a smart move to relocate a part of it outside, to this Sputnik idea.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:43 am

    If it is windy then put wind generators on top of it... not the wind mill type... the other more compact type that generate power no matter which way the wind comes from without needing to turn.

    Instead of building tall and thin perhaps broad box like buildings would be better... the reduced external surface area would make heating and cooling more efficient and the outside of the buildings could have patriotic murals painted on them... or LED lights that can be used to display images like a giant TV screen...
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    Post  Scorpius Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:07 pm


    A general overview of a typical urban development from the point of view of a resident.
    I will add from myself: Kupchino is considered the most depressive and unsafe area of St. Petersburg.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm

    The criticism of urban development such as Kupchino is not realistic. Go anywhere in North America and even in western Europe and
    you will see the same multi-story apartment block island development. Five story walk-ups which are the pastel painted classic architecture
    people love so much stopped being built 100 years ago. The main difference between North America and Europe (including Russia) is
    the number of single family residential buildings. But there are plenty of apartment blocks anyway. Cities like Boston have the old style
    that resembles Europe.

    During the USSR period the old buildings in St. Petersburg (Leningrad) were not simply demolished but rebuilt internally. The character
    of the city was protected. The "commie blocks" were built on previously undeveloped land as the city expanded. I have been there
    several times in both the old parts and the newer parts. The narrator makes it sound like the commie blocks overran the classical
    urban areas and made them ugly. This is simply false. The video shows lots of garbage in the yards, this is not universal to such
    areas of the city and reflects the lack of effort to do cleaning. You can make the old and charming parts of the city look like shit
    if you let them decay as well. After 1976 this was happening as the paint and plaster was neglected and started peeling off. The
    threads on St. Petersburg architecture at the SkyScraperCity forum give a view of the situation. Over the last 20 years there has
    been a dramatic improvement as neglected buildings have been restored and rebuilt.

    The high rise apartment blocks built in the southern districts of the city in the 1980s are nothing like the Khruschevkas. They have
    multi-bedroom apartments that include their own bath and normal sized kitchen. The ventilation is superb and you do not hear
    your neighbour breathing through the paper thin walls you find in some newer US condominiums. This is based on direct experience.
    The "drab facade" criticism is mostly BS. If you need bright colours to fight depression, then you have mental problems. The
    quality of a residential area is in the layout of shops, parks and other recreational venues. I know of one set of residential blocks
    in a city on the Volga which is literally ash grey in colour but which has localized small shops where you can buy any food you want
    which is something you can't do in any of the North American suburbs.

    Russians still have unrealistic perceptions of how "bad" they have it. Move to North America and see what reality tastes like. Now
    that Russia has a housing market, people should vote with their mortgages and buy the quality housing they want. No more excuses
    about how the dear leader is not providing.

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    Post  limb Yesterday at 11:27 am

    Majority of eastern europeans believe most americans, germans, dutch, etcstill live in 2 story 5-8 bedroom houses and drive 2 muscle cars, all while funding that with a lower middle income job.

    Western propaganda is hell of a drug.

    Meanwhile I know many Americans with PhDs working in tech who still live with housemates in 2-4 room singe story houses as large as khruschovka apartments and they gloat how good they have it in the US because they're not ruled by "criminal oligarchs" like Russia is.

    Fun fact: Entire urban centers in the US can be completely owned by a single family and they have the final say whats built in their city. These rentier family owned areas tend to be very overpriced with poorly maintained and cramped housing, with terrible house managers due to lack of competition. Irvine is a perfect example. But hey, the US is based on property rights so its taboo to talk about "redistributing" anything.

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    Post  calripson Yesterday at 6:32 pm

    limb wrote:Majority of eastern europeans believe most americans, germans, dutch, etcstill live in 2 story 5-8 bedroom houses and drive 2 muscle cars, all while funding that with a lower middle income job.

    Western propaganda is hell of a drug.

    Meanwhile I know many Americans with PhDs working in tech who still live with housemates in 2-4 room  singe story houses as large as khruschovka apartments and they gloat how good they have it in the US because they're not ruled by "criminal oligarchs" like Russia is.

    Fun fact: Entire urban centers in the US can be completely owned by a single family and they have the final say whats built in their  city. These rentier family owned areas tend to be very overpriced with poorly maintained and cramped housing, with terrible house managers due to lack of competition. Irvine is a perfect example. But hey, the US is based on property rights so its taboo to talk about "redistributing" anything.


    Your observation about entire urban centers owned by a single family is spot on. In my area, a big landlord is the Rubensteins. The family owns a palatial estate in the most affluent area on acres of land. Turns out they pay very little property tax because they have it taxed under an agricultural exemption (despite being in the built-up suburbs). Seems that they grow a little hay on their property that they then sell to a livestock operator who leases adjacent municipal land for $1 a year to feed his steers.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Yesterday at 7:11 pm

    Most of the Russians arriving to US particularly South Florida area return within 1 or 2 years of being there , they cannot last in the melting pot it's too big a shock

    The ones who were there for 20 years or more tend to live as average Americans,  working to live

    Then again they are not the only ones going there. 
    A mass exodus of people from California, New York, Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis, and other cities occured shortly after the riots of 2020

    My relatives,  Burmistrovs are from Vinnystia. They are in US now and are returning to Russia, specifically Crimea. 

    Urban development in US sucks, you're paying 2400 a month to live in a 700 square foot apartment. 

    The suburbs are decent but housing prices are around 500k and up for a starter family home so 3 bedroom 2 bathroom. 

    You can buy a new truck for 70k and pay 4 per gallon to stay bumper to bumper on death traps of US highways, people are killed there with large frequency

    The US does not have cities like Novosibirsk or Kazan, or Ulyanovsk. 

    So smaller cities, like Boulder, Charleston, and Raleigh already are growing at pace that they become like mega cities anyway. 

    Russia has the blessing of having ample space to have many 500k population cities. That's the allure of Siberia right now for Kremlin development planning

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