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    Nomad5891

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    Post  Nomad5891 Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:21 am

    My two cents- somehow Russians were outplayed in this round.
    Of course Navalny and the forces behind him knew he was going to be arrested and eventually put in jail as soon as he lands in Russia.
    It was either that ot Putin´s adminsitration showing the whole country that Navalny is above the law.

    So, the plan has been from the begining to get Navalny in jail and then show the world how Russia is oppressing this poor, beloved opposition leader. And they got what they wanted. Even more, now it seems to the ordinary american or european that Navalny is in jail because he showed some secret Putin´s palace...

    It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
    He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.
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    Maximmmm

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    Post  Maximmmm Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:48 pm

    I think what people like Tsavo don't realize is that we don't support corruption. We just hate traitors who work together with foreign entities.
    I know several people who had the same Navalny evolution as I did: Mild interest once we heard of him, distrust after actually learning a bit more about him and now outright disgust.
    We all know about corruption, hell I even got a government document fast tracked (in minecraft) by using a firm that had "connections", but if you are in bed with foreigners you can go straight to hell. That's the simple equation.

    Also that whole putin's palace thing. Jesus, mould? they stripped the rooms of the furnishing? the pics of the library were just examples? it was made by germans?
    I mean it really goes to show how retarded so many of the masses are. It's just so painfully blatant Laughing

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    miketheterrible

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:58 pm

    Nomad5891 wrote:My two cents- somehow Russians were outplayed in this round.
    Of course Navalny and the forces behind him knew he was going to be arrested and eventually put in jail as soon as he lands in Russia.
    It was either that ot Putin´s adminsitration showing the whole country that Navalny is above the law.

    So, the plan has been from the begining to get Navalny in jail and then show the world how Russia is oppressing this poor, beloved opposition leader. And they got what they wanted. Even more, now it seems to the ordinary american or european that Navalny is in jail because he showed some secret Putin´s palace...

    It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
    He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

    Good for EU and US. Who cares what they say in the end? Russia did what it had to do and he was charged for evading his check ins. And it's obvious that the government let the little gov structures take him down, it proves the federal gov actually doesn't give a shit about him.

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    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:10 pm

    .-I didn't vote in years, & but Trump, that disgusting scum, deserved to be voted out.

    I don't blame you for that, in trying to undo everything Trump did Biden might actually do some good, but fundamentally your problem remains that the democrats and the Republicans are putting out shit options for the American public to vote for and they are not even hiding it any more...

    Your system is clearly broken and as more and more people want another choice the chances are America is going to have to make the choice... do they want a civil war to give people more choice, or can the two political golems make room for someone else?

    then read this

    The title is ridiculous... Putin has nothing to do with what is happening to Navalny... that is just what automatically happens to anyone who violates their parole.... it is normal in any western country. If you want to find cases where governments get involved in the judicial system and perhaps need to be held accountable for that then you need to look up stories on people like Assange or Snowden or Manning.

    -and Putin grew from small to big criminal once he got power.

    You say that without any evidence of criminality... certainly if he was CEO of a company and it had developed and progressed the way Russia has progressed they would probably be looking at ways to name the damn company after him.

    .- the Hebrews in Egypt had a good life too before, & compared to spending 40 years in the desert, but it was worth it to be free & be able to lead their own lives.

    Did they tell you that? Write a book about me 1,000 years after my death and I would tell you you should probably not believe everything you read.

    After 40 years in the desert I rather suspect everyone under 40 probably had nothing to compare with their life in the desert...

    Just because Putin does things ona  different scale, it doesn't mean that he should be kept in power to continue his reign of corruption, intimidation & terror.

    Every election the people of Russia have the opportunity to vote him out. It is called democracy. Reign of corruption intimidation and terror describes exactly the wests relations with the world, yet you seem to hate Putin more than the censored  who rule the west... why is that exactly?

    Give a small man a lot of power & he looses his head flaunting it while developing a mania of greatness.

    He is more of a man than leaders of the world of much greater physical stature... I understand you want to paint him as some sort of monster, but you are failing terribly.  Any other posts from Ukrainian websites or Fox News articles... maybe Jamestown has a new article describing all the children he murdered as a teenager.

    .-right, Navalny also made $ in legit. business & his FBK reports all of its income & spending; only now he got accused of embezzling.

    He is a criminal... he can't even abide by his parole rules, and he is a grifter by nature. You find child molesters as teachers and boy scout leaders... it is a pretty obvious career choice for them until they are caught. Navalny is an anti corruption "investigator"... you do the math.

    .- he's in a damage control mode after his FSB failed to kill him & got caught with its pants down.

    What damage... the western media continues with unsubstantiated claims that makes them look silly and rather out of their depth to Russian people who understand the situation better. Western people believe but it is part of the BS dream that makes them think their lives matter.

    .-no, from FBK investigations that u refuse to accept!

    I think you will find "fabricated butt crap" would be FBC...

    -the house I live in belongs to my landlord, but if I or some1 else pay rent, it's mine,

    If the payments are made on time by whomever you have rights, but that rental agreement can be terminated at any time by the land lord with the limits of the agreement. Rent payments secure your access to the property but if the land lord sells the property to someone else then that someone can demand changes to the agreement.

    Putin said the building is not his and I have no reason not to believe him. Saying convicted criminal and fraudster A Navalny said something different... well I don't care.

    Others paid & still pay for that palace building, furnishings, repairs, maintenance, & security.

    But you live in your rented place... Putin has not been living in this so called palace. You might as well say it is my palace because I haven't been there either...

    If u can't see the truth staring in ur face & comprehend it, perhaps it's better that u stop repeating the same shallow mantra above like a stuck recording.

    The truth is pretty clear to me.

    -how do u know that? all the facts says the opposite; he thinks he must persecute him-see the above clip. who else would benefit from keeping him behind bars? certainly not those ordinary Russians that Putin rules on behalf of & with help by his propagandists tries to look like is concerned about their well being above all else.

    Navalny violated the terms of his parole of course he had to go to jail to serve out his remaining jail term. If it was Putin interfering then why not give him an additional 10 years for making a fool of the courts by ignoring their decisions and trying to discredit the entire country by going abroad and pretending to be sick and pretending he had the tiniest clue of what actually happened...

    -he does, & tries to cover his ass to look 100% clean.

    His ass is likely the cleanest of any who has previously held his position or any American or European leader in a similar position...

    - u have a very idealistic view of the RF realities. keep ur rosy glasses on, but stop lecturing me.

    But you don't even understand the basics of a suspended sentence... and the ramifications of violating your parole conditions... pretty standard around the world... but you seem to think they don't apply.

    Perhaps a product of living in the west and the messed up way the west behaves with its perceived friends and its perceived enemies.

    -w/o the local opposition, they won't make any difference.

    And they didn't.

    Navalny is a lot smarter than Putin & his kill teams; the elites will soon make their own pivot towards him before turning their backs on a fresh political corpse.

    You mean in 3 years when he is out of prison?

    .- either way, the writing is on the wall; he has many enemies all over the Globe & good luck to him with his judo skills.

    The same writing has been on that wall for thousand of years for Russia and Russians... the Europeans wrote it up there before America even existed... it is probably what helps him remain focussed.

    - wrong, the German colonists in Russia all got Russified & many of their descendants who left the USSR came back. the Germans have no stomach to swallow Russia.

    Stolypin was a monarchist... if he had lived and stopped Lenin then in WWII the Germans might have made an alliance with Tsarist Russia and crushed the British and the French and the US would have stayed out of it.

    -Nemtsov was a big threat to his throne & had to be eliminated, regardless of consequences.

    He was already practically forgotten when he was shot. A brutal public execution makes no sense for Putin... a car accident or plane crash... or a suicide like the Clintons prefer when they get rid of dangerous people...

    - PR!

    Yes... public relations. Talking to and listening to the public. Something western politicians pay lip service to and pretend to do but don't actually.

    No US presidential candidate would turn up to a debate without a complete list of all the questions to be asked a couple of weeks in advance so they can prepare answers by committee and vet it with their lawyers first. Once in office they would never even consider it... they are already in the job they don't need to risk everything by doing that... what if there is a difficult question and it makes you look silly... not a chance.

    But Putin does it.

    In the old days, folks would go to the capital to present their grievances in person. talk is cheap, esp. when the lower officials ignore his decrees; if the system was efficient, there would be no need for that kind of troubleshooting. r u calling it normal?

    I am calling it open and transparent... the only other leader who did anything like that is Trump on Twitter, but I never looked at that so I can't say whether he just spoke or if he answered questions and talked to people.

    - like the kind & benevolent Tsar that "didn't know" what his boyars were doing to the people. I remember the same thing when Andropov policies failed & were scaled back/stopped, many blamed the local party bosses, not him.

    He does not have to do this... he could remain locked up in his ivory tower like all previous Russian leaders have, and all western leaders do too.

    - if u think that Navalny doesn't know all that, it's ur other deep mistake.

    Which makes him an opportunist traitor.

    -Navalny could give lectures in W. Europe/US/Canada Aus/NZ & earn more $ than in Russia

    If he is not in Russia agitating them he is of no use... why would anyone in the west listen to that pussy.

    Being a convicted criminal he would not be allowed entry to New Zealand or Australia... (hahaha criminals can't get into Australia now... how times have changed).

    even as its president,

    But if Putin is grafting billions, surely he could graft thousands of dollars...

    but still came back as he's a liberal politician now.

    Have you actually listened to him... he is a racist bastard... liberal my ass... if he was liberal he could have stayed in the EU for life but they kicked him out for talking libellous shit about German politicians...

    - FYI, that sentence since elapsed.

    Not even close.

    -thanks to being poisoned by FSB who then illegally tempered with evidence they got from cops twice.

    He was convicted in a Russian court. No Appeals to european courts for him now... boo hoo.

    -I can say u r giving more credit to Putin than he deserves!

    The place Russia is in today is because of him and his choices and decisions.

    -why not staying as an independent candidate? a party may still form around him or his successor.

    Because as an independent candidate he can only be voted into one seat and you can't be president with one seat.

    -if was brain dead, he wouldn't be in power.

    He is not in power... he is in prison.

    -& Putin got burned on it; hence the need for new constitution with old presidential terms annuled.

    Even if Luka said that was a brilliant idea lets join countries such things can't happen in a few weeks or months... that sort of shit would take years to iron out...

    -wrong: they wanted to save Ms of german lives by making peace with UK & US to better negotiate with, & defend against the USSR.

    And they were assuming that after they killed Hitler that Hitler supporters wouldn't just kill them and ruin their attempts to surrender to the western allies.

    Moot point anyway, they couldn't even kill adolph so the rest of the plan didn't really matter much.

    the association is Putin=Hitler & Kaput in German is "finished, worn out, dead". A Russian in Vladivostok was holding it. These attitudes r not new there.

    Obviously a Russian patriot in sync with the feelings of the Russian people... equating an Austrian who essentially murdered 30 million soviet citizens with a Russian who led Russia from economic collapse and poverty, to a country the west is clearly very afraid of... and not just military, but production wise they have all the potential of the west but with none of her debt and all those natural resources and land. Yeah... might work on stupid western audiences, but I don't buy it.

    -for it to really work, Putin must go!

    But it is already working.

    -he tried it & that train is gone; good riddance!

    But the election in the US rigged by the Democrats proves they don't have democracy and that serious institutional changes have to be made if you ever want to see democracy again. It is Institutional fundamental problems with your system that can't be patched or tinkered with.... smash it down and make it all brand new.

    - if given a chance, he would kill Ms to stay in power.

    So you say...

    - I never implied that. Oh, I forgot, u r from down under & can't be blamed for having different logical in/abilities!

    So why mention the USSR imploding and killing people if it has nothing at all to do with Putin?

    -Putin's rule will add more stagnation & degradation.

    But the economic situation is no worse than in the EU so he is doing as well as civilised and educated Europe is...

    - the US $ has an amazing ability to recover, unlike other currencies. if there's a political will, there is a way. there r professional stimulators of the economy here that earn their keep.

    You mean America is going to invade someone...

    - no, it's up to them what to do, I'm just presenting my take & commenting on the situation.

    But no one else can give their opinion?

    .-no, Trump would make it a Nazi state. As I said, I'm not going to discuss internal US issues here.

    He got elected because it is a Nazi state...

    -only so far, recall those in Belarus!

    None so far compared with hundreds in Spain and France and the US... but only Putin needs to go?

    Sounds like you just want Putin to go and you are grasping at straws.

    This is a good time to ban social media that is not good for Russia(like they are doing it in Murica.)

    Good idea, even though the west will say it is oppressing the freedom and rights of the people despite doing the same themselves all the time...

    46 trillion rubles, or 609 billion dollars - this is exactly how much Putin's geopolitical failures cost the Russians, which brought nothing but the illusion of opposition to the West for Russia itself.

    Without reading that bullshit I suspect this figure is a roundup of all the western sanctions imposed on Russia over Putins decisions taken in the interests of the Russian people. Most of those damages will not be real damages because the response to sanctions by the west is increased diversity away from energy exports... it has led to domestic investments in food production to the point Russia now earns billions of dollars in food exports, and of course machine tooling and farm machinery etc etc etc... all of which makes Russia stronger and better able to trade with other countries with products they own and produce themselves.

    America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia.

    It is OK for America to fuck up because they are rich and can afford it. The thing is that western sanctions are making Russia stronger and more independent... America is going to find its easy run will be coming to an end... the way it uses its dollar as a weapon means countries are trying to get off that crack just to protect themselves from American attacks. As more and more get off the US dollar will lose value and countries might even stop accepting it... then where will America be?

    But it has been so nice to its close team of allies... they will help them right?

    She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.

    Actually she can't because that is her problem not her solution... continuing to just print money will lead to some countries and companies to wonder if it is worth anything... what is backing it up?

    Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.

    Yeah, rich people not having cheap illegal labour they can underpay because they are illegal is what was stopping America being great again... who is the racist again?

    The Levada Centre, an independent pollster labelled as a foreign agent by Russia’s Ministry of Justice for its receipt of funding from overseas, conducted the research. In another survey late last year, the same group also found that only one in five Russians said they “approve” of the anti-corruption campaigner’s actions across all of activism and journalism. A full 50 percent said they disapproved, and 18 percent claimed they’d never even heard of him.

    Ahhh that is gold... the Levada Centre that is funded by foreign countries and in a poll 18 percent of Russians had never heard of Navalny.... priceless.

    Better compare how many people emigrated to the US vs. to the RF

    The people going to America are economic migrants mainly coming from third world poor countries to the south of the US.... which is poetic justice because the US has had a major hand in keeping central and south america poor and weak.

    Certain oligarchs close to Putin will have their assets seized abroad. It's about time!

    Excellent... those rich Russians might realise that investing in things in the west will just lose them that investment... perfect.

    My two cents- somehow Russians were outplayed in this round.

    Not sure how you work that out... Navalny is now in prison. Western media are squawking about it, but that is nothing new.

    It was either that ot Putin´s adminsitration showing the whole country that Navalny is above the law.

    Pretty sure Putin had no input at all... this is what would happen to any parole violator anywhere in the world.

    So, the plan has been from the begining to get Navalny in jail and then show the world how Russia is oppressing this poor, beloved opposition leader.

    He is not THE opposition leader... he is barely A opposition leader. Jill Stein of the green party in the US gets more vote than this moron.

    It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
    He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

    It is funny... the west portrays Putin as an omnipotent despot who runs the country and the justice system like some sort of mafia boss, but then complain when he doesn't.

    What justification has Putin got to revoke his citizenship?

    it proves the federal gov actually doesn't give a shit about him.

    I am sure Putin goes in to interviews thinking... why are these idiots still talking about this noone... there are actually important things Russia and the west need to discuss and those censored want to talk about Navalny... how about we talk about Assange instead eh? What.... the west does not want to discuss Assange... that is strange.

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    Nomad5891

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    Post  Nomad5891 Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:03 pm

    C'mon for sure Putin or at least his team considered very carefully this whole Navalny thing. Yeah now they have it in prison, but it is like having a hot potatoe in your hands. I dont want to even think what will happen if this Navalny dude gets a natural heart arrest next 2.5 years...it will be game over for Putin, that is for sure.

    It doesnt matter who Navalny really is, what matters is what mass media paints him as.

    And it matters what avarage the Joe or Hans think to an extent that their governments need nation's support if they are to confront Russia.
    First thing one does before engaging in a conflict is painting the opponent as bad as possible, even dehumanize it.

    And it is a steady process for the last...decade? I saw a guy on youtube that paid several interns to find ONE positive newspiece about Russia in USA mass media in 2020. And there was none. So yeah, there is a big confrontation going on beneath all the smiles and handshakes shown on TV.

    And I think having Navalny arrested and in prison, was just following your oponents's plan for Russia.

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    elconquistador

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    Post  elconquistador Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:40 pm

    Average Joe or Hans couldn't care less about NavalWHO?

    It's the decision makers you should be worried about. And they'll find a way anyhow

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    Backman
    Backman

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    Post  Backman Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm

    Remember when the US congress sanctioned Deripaska ? It screwed up the world market for aluminum. Japan suffered more than Russia for it.

    So the sanctions were duly lifted.

    With sanctions lifted, Rusal says it's business as usual

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rusal-results-idUSKCN1QO01L


    Last edited by Backman on Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    PhSt
    PhSt

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    Post  PhSt Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:03 pm

    I dont want to even think what will happen if this Navalny dude gets a natural heart arrest next 2.5 years...it will be game over for Putin, that is for sure.

    And I think having Navalny arrested and in prison, was just following your oponents's plan for Russia.

    You are spouting typical NATzO style coercion. line always goes like "Let our 5th column agents roam free and do whatever they want, if you arrest them you are doing want we want" BULLSHIT. Navalny needs to rot in prison for 10,000 years. Russia needs to prepare for war in its western borders, actually, maybe even bait NATzO to launch the first attack to justify a military response. This is will a golden opportunity to liberate Russian territories that are under illegal occupation by artificial countries like Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania attack

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:51 pm

    As the Biden government is softening the US stance on NS-2 related sanctions on both Russia and Germany, expect toughening posture on Russia's liberal opposition focused alone with the united support of NATzO and related countries.
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    miketheterrible

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:21 pm

    Kiko wrote:As the Biden government is softening the US stance on NS-2 related sanctions on both Russia and Germany, expect toughening posture on Russia's liberal opposition focused alone with the united support of NATzO and related countries.

    You are aware it was always tough?

    You cant get tougher than they already do.  What more will they do? Fund groups in Russia? Oh, they already do that.  You mean fund more individuals and create media groups to cause trouble in Russia? They already do that.  Sanction politicians and people against the Libtards?  They already do that.

    There really is nothing they can do and it wont fucking matter.  All of NATO is on the same side regarding Navalny.  Because he is their guy.  Germany was peddling lie after lie for him even though it was found out they are bullshitting.

    Nomad5891 wrote:C'mon for sure Putin or at least his team considered very carefully this whole Navalny thing. Yeah now they have it in prison, but it is like having a hot potatoe in your hands. I dont want to even think what will happen if this Navalny dude gets a natural heart arrest next 2.5 years...it will be game over for Putin, that is for sure.

    It doesnt matter who Navalny really is, what matters is what mass media paints him as.

    And it matters what avarage the Joe or Hans think to an extent that their governments need nation's support if they are to confront Russia.  
    First thing one does before engaging in a conflict is painting the opponent as bad as possible, even dehumanize it.

    And it is a steady process for the last...decade? I saw a guy on youtube that paid several interns to find ONE positive newspiece about Russia in USA mass media in 2020. And there was none. So yeah, there is a big confrontation going on beneath all the smiles and handshakes shown on TV.

    And I think having Navalny arrested and in prison, was just following your oponents's plan for Russia.


    Yeah, they said the same thing about Nemtsov. He is 6 feet under and barely anyone remembers him.

    No, Navalny is hated. No one gives a shit about him besides foreign agencies. Outside of that, support for him is pretty pathetic.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:31 pm

    PhSt wrote:You are spouting typical NATzO style coercion. line always goes like "Let our 5th column agents roam free and do whatever they want, if you arrest them you are doing want we want" BULLSHIT. Navalny needs to rot in prison for 10,000 years. Russia needs to prepare for war in its western borders, actually, maybe even bait NATzO to launch the first attack to justify a military response. This is will a golden opportunity to liberate Russian territories that are under illegal occupation by artificial countries like Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania  attack

    Typical idiots confuse restrain and proper evaluation of the own forces with weakness. Russia is increasingly assertive as the country gets stronger and that is only going to accelerate massively in this decade. In the end it will be the West and their demented Eastern poodles that will hand Russia the chance to recover from some of the historical defeats the USSR and its several traitors and Russia-haters across the ages created.

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    Post  kvs Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:37 pm

    NATzO's rent-a-crowd regime change efforts are flopping big time. No amount of barking by the fake stream media will con
    Russians into loving a foreign asset trying to ruin their lives. I will repeat: Navlany openly states that the Yeltsin era was
    the golden years and there was no corruption in Russia under Yeltsin. Only a troll-tard like Tsavo Lion would think that
    such a clown is a "popular opposition leader". Yeah, an opposition to sanity leader.

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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:53 pm

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/which-16-countries-sent-diplomats-to-navalnys-trial/

    The obvious countries involved. Switzerland being the more surprising one.

    But the rest are all anti russian assholes.

    I do believe Russia needs to be stronger against these people - foreign diplomats. Russian diplomats get treated like shit. So I think it may be in Russia's best interest to take note of all of these diplomats that were there, and then designate them as persona non grata. Kick them out and then reduce the embassies of each one of these nations and state that their involvement in Russia's politics is a violation of the sovereignty of the state and that if they continue, they will see their embassy be reduced further and then potential war which they designate it as an act of war.

    At that point, many will piss their pants and walk back a bit. Russia is too lenient to them.

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    Post  kvs Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:49 pm

    https://twitter.com/AmandaPresto/status/1356983909263810561

    Trump supporters being charged w sedition and facing 20 years in jail while BLM rioters had bail raised for them by politicians and Hollywood and the media called them "mostly peaceful." But yeah, #WhitePrivilege or whatever.

    And we have troll-tard Tsavo Line BSing us here about poor, oppressed Navalny and his rent-a-crowds.    So much abuse by Russia
    not to subject these actual seditionists and traitors to trials with 20+ year jail time.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:14 pm

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The title is ridiculous... Putin has nothing to do with what is happening to Navalny... - I'll let this article to be my reply:
    For the Kremlin, Aleksei Navalny Is a Threat It Cannot Speak Of

    -and Putin grew from small to big criminal once he got power.
    You say that without any evidence of criminality...-it's described here:
    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-04-19/putin-and-the-100-million-deal-that-disappeared

    https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/stealing-russia-blind/

    https://qz.com/1330955/russias-missing-wealth/

    Just because Putin does things on a different scale, it doesn't mean that he should be kept in power to continue his reign of corruption, intimidation & terror.
    Every election the people of Russia have the opportunity to vote him out. - not if they his opponents r barred from challenging him, as was the case up to now.
    yet you seem to hate Putin.. why is that exactly?- a former KGB (NKVD/OGPU/MGB successor that cost her Ms of lives) under colonel shouldn't rule Russia, period. I remember living under Andropov police state, & it was no fun nor normal.
    Putin said the building is not his and I have no reason not to believe him.- not formaly his, but under his control, & the FSO with restricted zones around it r there to welcome him while keeping others that have no business there away. Calling it by its proper name, it's a $1B bribe. 
    Others paid & still pay for that palace building, furnishings, repairs, maintenance, & security.
    But you live in your rented place... Putin has not been living in this so called palace. -after renovation, it wasn't going to stay empty. If some1 is given a bribe but doesn't use it for a long time, it doesn't mean that he wasn't bribed.
    If u can't see the truth staring in ur face & comprehend it, perhaps it's better that u stop repeating the same shallow mantra above like a stuck recording.
    The truth is pretty clear to me. -1 day u'll have a rude awakening.
    Navalny violated the terms of his parole of course he had to go to jail to serve out his remaining jail term. If it was Putin interfering then why not give him an additional 10 years for making a fool of the courts..-he may add more years to his term, depending on the situation. Putin isn't very smart, but very cunning, like Stalin was.
    ..by ignoring their decisions and trying to discredit the entire country by going abroad and pretending to be sick -no, the FSB, Putin, & the RF gov. r now discredited; his plane made an emerg. landing & he was brought sick into Omsk hospital which under pressure didn't say he got poisoned; Putin didn't have a choice but to let him go to Germany to stay clean from attempted murder accusations. Then he was in rehab; the court pretends it didn't know his whereabouts, while Putin himself did. Indeed, this "independent court", whose judge had to be replaced before hearing this artificial politically motivated Navalny's case, must be included in the Guiness Record Book.
    -he does, & tries to cover his ass to look 100% clean.
    His ass is likely the cleanest of any who has previously held his position...-not even "likely" anymore, & it'll get dirtier with each week.
    - u have a very idealistic view of the RF realities. keep ur rosy glasses on, but stop lecturing me.
    But you don't even understand the basics of a suspended sentence... and the ramifications of violating your parole conditions... pretty standard around the world... but you seem to think they don't apply.- I do understand them, but they r being imposed by pocket judges, & vigorously prosecuted on orders from above, in violation of all procedural norms, they have no legal standing.
    -w/o the local opposition, they won't make any difference.
    And they didn't.- wait, its only the start. The Russians will resist injustice, & I feel it in my own bones.
    Navalny is a lot smarter than Putin & his kill teams; the elites will soon make their own pivot towards him before turning their backs on a fresh political corpse.
    You mean in 3 years when he is out of prison?-maybe even before that. N. Mandela spent 27 years in prison but become SA president. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Valeca, Havel, NEHRU, BACHELET, &Moon_Jae-in also were imprisoned/exiled but still made it to the top.
    .- either way, the writing is on the wall; he has many enemies all over the Globe & good luck to him with his judo skills.
    - wrong, the German colonists in Russia all got Russified & many of their descendants who left the USSR came back. the Germans have no stomach to swallow Russia.
    Stolypin was a monarchist... if he had lived and stopped Lenin then in WWII the Germans might have made an alliance with Tsarist Russia and crushed the British and the French and the US would have stayed out of it. -even if so, the Russians who r not Ethnic Germans wouldn't be speaking German at home. Even Yiddish (a German dialect of E. European Jews) is a dying language.
    -Nemtsov was a big threat to his throne & had to be eliminated, regardless of consequences.
    He was already practically forgotten when he was shot. A brutal public execution makes no sense for Putin...-Kadyrov could also use it to show that he can do anything even on Putin's doorstep. It's mafia's internal squabbles, or Putin knew that he could claim "I didn't know anything" & blame it on him. His FSB was watching his every move 24/7.
    - PR!
    But Putin does it.-to let off steam of discontent, with very little substance. A leader shouldn't be involved in cleaning up a mess created by technocrats & corrupt/disrespectful officials in far off regions. Chinese Emperors had more efficient reporting by runners from the provinces by 6 in the morning every day. In the Taoist view, the best ruler is the 1 whose name isn't even known to the people he rules.
    In the old days, folks would go to the capital to present their grievances in person. talk is cheap, esp. when the lower officials ignore his decrees; if the system was efficient, there would be no need for that kind of troubleshooting. r u calling it normal?
    I am calling it open and transparent... the only other leader who did anything like that is Trump on Twitter, but I never looked at that so I can't say whether he just spoke or if he answered questions and talked to people.- he was just posting his rants & boasts, not answering to any1. it was all about him & his self-righteous.
    - like the kind & benevolent Tsar that "didn't know" what his boyars were doing to the people. I remember the same thing when Andropov policies failed & were scaled back/stopped, many blamed the local party bosses, not him.
    He does not have to do this... he could remain locked up in his ivory tower like all previous Russian leaders have, and all western leaders do too.-Putin has bunkers & tunnels to hide/escape; "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". But in the end, he may be caught as a rat in a sewer like Khaddaffi was.
    - if u think that Navalny doesn't know all that, it's ur other deep mistake.
    Which makes him an opportunist traitor.- no, he would stand up for Russia's interests, & he won't give Crimea back, "as a half eaten sandwich."
    Being a convicted criminal he would not be allowed entry to New Zealand or Australia...- I doubt Putin would be welcome there even now, as long as Navalny isn't free.
    -I can say u r giving more credit to Putin than he deserves!
    The place Russia is in today is because of him and his choices and decisions.-Nemtsov's investigations showed that it's not his sole achievement, but even if true, he's not indispensable, esp. after usurping power for so long. Again, the best ruler is the 1 whose name isn't even known/easily recalled to the people he rules.
    -why not staying as an independent candidate? a party may still form around him or his successor.
    Because as an independent candidate he can only be voted into one seat and you can't be president with one seat.-did Yeltsin have a party that made him a president?
    -if was brain dead, he wouldn't be in power.
    He is not in power... he is in prison.-that fact will empower the opposition more.
    -& Putin got burned on it; hence the need for new constitution with old presidential terms annuled.
    Even if Luka said that was a brilliant idea lets join countries such things can't happen in a few weeks or months... that sort of shit would take years to iron out...-by then, it was in the works for years; if it was ratified & legalized, on the bottom things could be as before. Crimea isn't much smaller than Belarus.
    -wrong: they wanted to save Ms of german lives by making peace with UK & US to better negotiate with, & defend against the USSR.
    And they were assuming that after they killed Hitler that Hitler supporters wouldn't just kill them and ruin their attempts to surrender to the western allies.- by then, there was a lot of rumbling in the army as it was clear that the war was being lost.
    Moot point anyway, they couldn't even kill adolph- it was a lost chance, with oak table saving him, but they almost succeded.
    the association is Putin=Hitler & Kaput in German is "finished, worn out, dead". A Russian in Vladivostok was holding it. These attitudes r not new there.
    Obviously a Russian patriot in sync with the feelings of the Russian people... equating an Austrian who essentially murdered 30 million soviet citizens with a Russian who led Russia from economic collapse and poverty,...- to make $, 1 must have $. Russia got better off to an extent, enriching Putin & his circle, at the expense of ordinary citizens. As the Comanche chief said: don't tell us to give up buffalo for sheep!
    -for it to really work, Putin must go!
    But it is already working.-wait till nationwide strikes r called.
    - if given a chance, he would kill Ms to stay in power.
    So you say...-I know it better than u.
    - I never implied that. Oh, I forgot, u r from down under & can't be blamed for having different logical in/abilities!
    So why mention the USSR imploding and killing people if it has nothing at all to do with Putin?- he was the part of that system & himself blamed Lenin for creating republics, "a time bomb under Russia", while in the same breath lamenting the USSR implosion as the biggest catastrophe of the XX century. Some countries have back to back tragedies w/o any breaks in between, & I'm glad I'm not there!
    -Putin's rule will add more stagnation & degradation.
    But the economic situation is no worse than in the EU so he is doing as well as civilised and educated Europe is...-the EU protesters can deal with its riot police; the Russians will deal with Putin's praetorians until they replace him, like what happened in Pax Romana.
    - the US $ has an amazing ability to recover, unlike other currencies. if there's a political will, there is a way. there r professional stimulators of the economy here that earn their keep.
    You mean America is going to invade someone...-there rn't worthy places left to invade w/o loosing politically, so not anytime soon, u can sleep well!
    - no, it's up to them what to do, I'm just presenting my take & commenting on the situation.
    But no one else can give their opinion?- where did I try to shut any1 up?
    .-no, Trump would make it a Nazi state. As I said, I'm not going to discuss internal US issues here.
    He got elected because it is a Nazi state...-if it was, we wouldn't have any elections.
    -only so far, recall those in Belarus!
    None so far compared with hundreds in Spain and France and the US... but only Putin needs to go?- it will get worse before it gets better; if the Russians decide so & succeed in kicking him out, yes.
    Sounds like you just want Putin to go and you are grasping at straws.-Ms of Russians want him to go; it's him now grasping at straws, as he can only rely on his media, security services, courts & police. Until last week, downtown Moscow subway stations weren't closed since 1941 with Germans only 20 km away.
    46 trillion rubles, or 609 billion dollars - this is exactly how much Putin's geopolitical failures cost the Russians, which brought nothing but the illusion of opposition to the West for Russia itself.
    Without reading that bullshit I suspect this figure is a roundup of all the western sanctions imposed on Russia over Putins decisions taken in the interests of the Russian people.-no, there r many other categories listed 1 by 1.
    America can afford more costly mistakes & wasteful spending than Russia.
    As more and more get off the US dollar will lose value and countries might even stop accepting it... then where will America be?- I know where Russia is with her Ruble, at 1 RUB = 0.01322 USD.
    She can also afford to print a lot more $ than Russia.
    Actually she can't because that is her problem not her solution... continuing to just print money will lead to some countries and companies to wonder if it is worth anything... what is backing it up?- new domestic & foreign policies to fix what Trump has done.
    Lastly, she recently evicted a moronic woud-be dictator from the White House & the new immigrants will be admitted to help "make her great again" for sure.
    Yeah, rich people not having cheap illegal labour they can underpay because they are illegal is what was stopping America being great again...-wrong: there'll be be more legal immigration & naturalization of those here, damn the local racists & bigots with their statues of Columbus & slave owners; they will renew & remake the USA to be better for all.
    The Levada Centre, an independent pollster labelled as a foreign agent by Russia’s Ministry of Justice for its receipt of funding from overseas, conducted the research. In another survey late last year, the same group also found that only one in five Russians said they “approve” of the anti-corruption campaigner’s actions across all of activism and journalism. A full 50 percent said they disapproved, and 18 percent claimed they’d never even heard of him.
    Ahhh that is gold... the Levada Centre that is funded by foreign countries and in a poll 18 percent of Russians had never heard of Navalny....-wait till the next poll; only a toddlers & retards don't know who he is now.
    Better compare how many people emigrated to the US vs. to the RF
    The people going to America are economic migrants mainly coming from third world poor countries to the south of the US....-not true: most recent immigrants since 2000 came from Asia.
    The obvious countries involved. Switzerland being the more surprising one.
    - they r within their rights to show concern & support.  
    ..Navalny and his rent-a-crowds.
    $ were paid to several teenagers bloggers to post anti-Navalny & anti-protests videos. 1 refused & posted a written script offered to read from. After it was noticed that they all sounded almost the same, it was changed.
    Folks have nothing to lose except their fear & will come out for free. Building prisons & camps to house them all will bankrupt Russia- even Iran didn't have enough oil $ & allies to prevent Khomeini from unseating the pompous but worthless Shah.

    Police at rallies


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:42 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:57 pm

    ^ That is one abortion of a post. There's gotta be a better way to structure a post than that
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:17 am

    miketheterrible wrote:....Tsavo and Vann fight for biggest retard of Russia defence forums title.

    They not only have zero idea about economics, they don't even know Russian history nor geopolitics.

    But they sure are quick to post nonsense, drivel and overall their stupidity.

    Easily debunked too.


    Tsavo is simple to figure out: He is 404 fanboy who likes to play dumb and post stuff about how the Ukraine is low key awesome and irreplaceable

    He also loves to shill for China because he subscribes to age old ''wisdom'' about how China will invade Russia for reasons (last mental refuge of ass-whooped East Euros) and thinks that folks here will start shitting their pants over Chincom ''power''

    But now with Analny (hehehe, thank you Martyanov) getting spanked and with only reaction in Russia being polar crickets he started losing his shit (like they said in that movie Ted: this is permanent)


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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:28 am

    Nomad5891 wrote:....It is beyond my comprehension why Russia didn´t just revoke Navalny´s passport and forbid him from enetering the country from the start.
    He would have been forgoten by now. Now, they just dont have a useful move.

    He is already forgotten

    As for foreign opinion on Russia, nobody in Russian gives a crap about foreign opinion on Russia

    Russia could start dumping VX gas on orphanages in Brazil and world's opinion on Russia would be unaltered because it’s already at rock bottom




    Now as always we have The Great Big One dropping some cold hard facts and I'm liking where this is going:

    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2021/02/civilizatinal-difference.html

    ...As per this Navalny (known in Russia as Analny and Sissyan, he DOES have tits) fellow, who is at the center of new West's Russo-phobic hysteria, today this jerk will be delivered to the court again to listen to another--more are coming--indictment on slandering the veteran of Great Patriotic War. And then, some time later, he will also be charged with being an intelligence asset of foreign state and that, folks, is a treason issue. So, all in all, he will spend a rather hefty time behind bars, which will allow him to learn a real trade, such as sowing, and, finally, will consummate his handle of Analny within penitentiary environment. ...

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:31 am

    Tsavo is simple to figure out: He is 404 fanboy who likes to play dumb and post stuff about how the Ukraine is low key awesome and irreplaceable
    He also loves to shill for China because he subscribes to age old ''wisdom'' about how China will invade Russia for reasons (last mental refuge of ass-whooped East Euros) and thinks that folks here will start shitting their pants over Chincom ''power''

    where in my posts did u get that impression from? did I ever tell u that under truth serum? I DON'T CARE IF U STAY DELUSIONAL, BUT KEEP UR SHITTY OPINION ABOUT ME TO URSELF!
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    Post  Backman Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:02 am

    Some clips from John Helmers blog. John Helmer is the longest serving western reporter in Russia. He is not pro Putin but not a hater either. Just an all around skeptic.

    Linguistic analysis of Navalny’s video on the Gelendzhik palace indicates the English subtitles were written first, and then translated for Navalny to speak in Russian. The English is American, not British; and certainly not the English of the German and American operatives who provided the video production technology, editing, and special effects at the Black Forest Studios in Kirchzarten, Germany. According to a German press report from Kirchzarten, “the studio bosses remember that at the beginning of December, a request by email came from a production company in Los Angeles. There was talk of a documentary…In terms of content, the Black Forest Studios have nothing to do with the film, the studio owners emphasize. They only provided the technology and the location and organized the shooting.”


    The value of the hundreds of case studies reported on this blog and in the accompanying books is that they allow a systematic record of how Putin rules, case by case. What is revealed is that the closer you look for Putin in each story, the less you can see of him. This is a provable truth more telling than the warfighters and regime-changers in Washington, London, and Brussels will acknowledge. Disagree with this, you may, but for your interpretation you have no alternative but to start at the case studies.

    US sanctions have struck at the businesses of Putin’s cronies ineffectually. But by compelling them and every other Russian business to conceal and camouflage their operations and assets, the sanctions campaign is destroying the openness of Russia’s capital markets and the freedom of the Russian press to investigate them and report. The free press of Russia which existed in 2014 is now regimented by information warfare; this hobbles investigative journalism like mine as an aid to the enemy. To be clear, this Russian press is not half so regimented and unfree as the press of the Anglo-American world.

    http://johnhelmer.net/oligarchy-in-russia-alexei-navalnys-telling-mistake/

    I'm starting to think that Putin doesn't actually have any major assets at all. He's the president. He has the presidential helicopters , cars and jets. And the presidential retreats. He doesn't need money. And he will get a good pension and lots of perks after he retires. As all X presidents do.



    Last edited by Backman on Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  PhSt Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:09 am

    Tsavo Pussy wrote:BUT KEEP UR SHITTY OPINION ABOUT ME TO URSELF!

    When you throw shit around don't expect people to respect you back Rolling Eyes

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:19 am

    Putin's cronies

    Quote of the century. Putin putting the oligarch wannabes into line makes them his cronies. I guess these "experts" would
    prefer that Putin was the crony of actual oligarchs such as in Ukraine. Or the USA for that matter. Because we all know
    that popularly elected leaders have less legitimacy than unelected star chambers.

    The mind boggles at the inanity.

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    Post  Backman Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:29 am

    kvs wrote:
    Putin's cronies

    Quote of the century. Putin putting the oligarch wannabes into line makes them his cronies. I guess these "experts" would
    prefer that Putin was the crony of actual oligarchs such as in Ukraine. Or the USA for that matter. Because we all know
    that popularly elected leaders have less legitimacy than unelected star chambers.

    The mind boggles at the inanity.


    You just have to accept some of that with John Helmer's writing. He's just a grubby investigative journalist. Anyone who is rich is a crony to him.

    Putin is a statesman keeping big business out of politics. And this somehow means that they are his "cronies".

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:56 am

    Backman wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Putin's cronies

    Quote of the century.   Putin putting the oligarch wannabes into line makes them his cronies.   I guess these "experts" would
    prefer that Putin was the crony of actual oligarchs such as in Ukraine.   Or the USA for that matter.   Because we all know
    that popularly elected leaders have less legitimacy than unelected star chambers.    

    The mind boggles at the inanity.


    You just have to accept some of that with John Helmer's writing. He's just a grubby investigative journalist. Anyone who is rich is a crony to him.

    Putin is a statesman keeping big business out of politics. And this somehow means that they are his "cronies".

    I have a kneejerk reaction to hyperbole about Russia. I know that Helmer is not an idiot and he does a lot of good with his
    articles for those that care to be objective.

    Maybe he needs to throw in some bolierplate language to not be censored completely. We live in interesting times.

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