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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 12, 2012 5:07 am

    BTW It was my understanding that the fin tip dielectric panels on the Flankers along with the nose were painted white for VVS aircraft and dark green for PVO birds.

    These day you tend to see a mix of colours so it is not an indicator now but I suspect if you do see a fully armed Russian fighter these days will will be a PVO bird waiting for a VKO launch command, or responding to one.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Sun May 13, 2012 10:54 am

    IMO Ka-52 surpasses any western attack helo in terms of electronic protection, with its brand new DIRCM set.
    It also has better payload, armor, (performance?), just a beast all around.
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    Post  GarryB Mon May 14, 2012 10:14 am

    Both the Russian helos have decent armour protection.

    Regarding the Tiger... electronics alone make the helo lighter and cheaper to buy and operate, but much more dangerous to use as electronics wont stop small arms fire and RPGs.

    Even a hovering helo is vulnerable to an ATGM... and new ATGMs like Kornet EM are optimised to deal with aircraft as well as vehicles...
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    Post  medo Thu May 17, 2012 3:39 pm

    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1 - Page 8 E7302f10

    Interesting new Tu-214. Anyone know more about it? It seems to have large SLAR antennas.
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    Post  Viktor Thu May 17, 2012 5:57 pm

    medo wrote:Interesting new Tu-214. Anyone know more about it? It seems to have large SLAR antennas.

    IL-38 May replacement.
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    Post  George1 Thu May 17, 2012 6:42 pm

    Russia to Field New Ground Attack Jet

    The Russian Air Force will start receiving new ground attack aircraft based on the Sukhoi Su-25SM Frogfoot combat jets by 2020, Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said on Thursday.

    “This new type of a ground attack aircraft has been included in the state arms procurement program,” Zelin, who is an aide to the defense minister, told a news conference in Voronezh (central Russia). “It will be put in service with the Air Force by 2020.”

    The new aircraft will be capable of carrying of a wide range of tactical weaponry and advanced radar and navigation equipment.

    It will feature elements of stealth technology and will be able to land on short runways.


    The new combat jet will eventually replace the modernized Su-25SM attack aircraft now entering service.

    Russia will continue to upgrade its outdated to the Su-25SM version, which has a significantly better survivability and combat effectiveness than earlier versions.

    The Russian Air Force currently has over 30 Su-25SM planes in service and plans to modernize about 80 Su-25s by 2020.

    Meanwhile, the Russian military has abandoned plans to develop a light attack plane based on Yak-130 combat trainer.

    Zelin said the prototype, dubbed Yak-131, had not met the requirements for enhansed protection of pilots.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120517/173508923.html
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 18, 2012 2:58 am

    So they are adapting the Su-25 design to make it more stealthy, but not actually stealthy.

    In other words think of Mig-35 to the Mig-29 rather than F-117.

    They will nip and tuck all the major radar reflection surfaces and redesign a few bits and pieces, but I rather suspect spending a lot of money to make it "stealthy" to radar is a waste of money.

    I suspect they might change propulsion to something that does not attract IR guided missiles so much, and Austin mentioned two seat design might be used... and I think perhaps for better communication between the crew that a side by side seating arrangement might be used as with the Ka-52 and Su-34. The extra width would allow a decent sized radar to be fitted... perhaps based on the Ka-52 mounted system in addition to optics. I suspect a podded navigation targeting system would be useful too because CAS can be called out day or night so money could be saved by using an external targeting pod because for a fleet of 100 aircraft you could probably buy 30-40 pods and just fit them when needed. When the pods are upgraded you can buy 30-40 new pods and still keep the older ones. External pods are cheaper and easier to upgrade than built in systems... you don't lose an aircraft while the upgrade is being made.

    Side by side seating would increase the internal volume of the fuselage which might allow more fuel or internal weapons carriage, but the primary weapon carriage will likely be on the wings. Of course with the Il-102 it could use much thicker wings and have bomb bays for 50 and 100kg bombs inside the wings... stealthy and with guidance accurate enough to enable the lighter warheads to still be effective. A subsonic only aircraft very thick wings will not be a handicap. It will need much more powerful engines however for the extra volume and weight and drag.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue May 22, 2012 9:05 pm

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/05/22/replacement/


    Well consider me excited for the new aircraft, looks like the RuAF really wants a cheap and survivable new asset to replace Su-25.
    Zelin says the Yak-131 was fine in terms of weaponry and combat load, but failed in pilot protection.

    Many questions however:
    -Article says aircraft will use better radar, but the implication is strange since Su-25 does not have any radar.
    -What engines will power it, surely not R-195?
    -What is the extent of LO features, since presumable the payload will still be external?
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue May 22, 2012 9:11 pm

    For me is strange that they look to replace Su-25 and not MiG-29 whose service life has already expired
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue May 22, 2012 9:15 pm

    MiG-29 service life has expired? Then by what magic are all those MiG-29s flying still Wink ?

    Su-25's are just as old as MiG-29s, even more in fact.
    Also completely different roles.
    VVS is getting several A2A assets: PAK-FA, Su-35, Su-30, etc.
    But only one A2G asset, the Su-34. So this makes sense.
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    Post  TheArmenian Tue May 22, 2012 9:28 pm

    Actually the VVS has some very much new MiG-29s. The ones they got back from the cancelled Algeria order.
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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #1 - Page 8 Empty New attack aircraft

    Post  GarryB Wed May 23, 2012 9:22 am

    -Article says aircraft will use better radar, but the implication is strange since Su-25 does not have any radar.

    After perfecting air to ground radar and air to air radar for their main two attack helos, I would suspect fitting them to their new CAS would make sense even just so that the CAS pilots can see what the Helos that they will be operating with can see.

    The Su-25TM was fitted to carry a belly mounted radar pod to give it all weather day and night performance, but it was not accepted into service.

    There were plans to fit the Su-25SM with a fixed nose mounted radar (which would give it a better forward view compared with a belly mounting position), but those plans didn't seem to progress either.

    -What engines will power it, surely not R-195?

    Depends how much weight the new aircraft gains... the turbojet engine is supposed to offer better throttle response (ie winds up faster... which can be critical when flying low in the mountains), but they could easily go for something radical like a contra rotating pusher propeller which would be efficient at low level.

    -What is the extent of LO features, since presumable the payload will still be external?

    Being a subsonic aircraft I would expect modified fixed air intakes would be a cheap and effective change, and likely redesigned structure to hide important components, and allow DIRCM turrets a nice wide field of regard.

    For me is strange that they look to replace Su-25 and not MiG-29 whose service life has already expired

    The replacement program for the Mig-29 was called LFI to match the MFI program that eventually became the PAK FA program. I rather suspect that the replacement for the Mig-29 was delayed because Sukhoi wants to reduce the success of the new fighter... whose goals of low operating cost and relatively low purchase costs with a light 5th gen fighter bomber should sell like the Flanker sells now.

    AFAIK they have quite a few Mig-29s in storage and with minor upgrades they could be put into service fairly cheaply, so I think there is no real urgency in spending money on a replacement. The Mig-29 is a perfectly adequate numbers aircraft right now, and with a proper upgrade its operational costs are fairly low... reportedly in the 5-6,000 per flight hour range.

    Su-25's are just as old as MiG-29s, even more in fact.
    Also completely different roles.
    VVS is getting several A2A assets: PAK-FA, Su-35, Su-30, etc.
    But only one A2G asset, the Su-34. So this makes sense.

    Also a key consideration is that Frontal Aviation lost all those single engine fighters/bombers like the Mig-27, the Su-17 and the Mig-21s and Mig-15s etc etc that had a swing role of basic ground attack.

    Currently with greatly reduced aircraft numbers the Su-25 and Su-24/34 are becoming critical, though their upgrades make them orders of magnitude more powerful and effective than the older model jets...

    Actually the VVS has some very much new MiG-29s. The ones they got back from the cancelled Algeria order.

    Would like to see them give more aircraft upgrades however...
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    Post  George1 Wed May 30, 2012 11:41 pm

    Russia to Reopen Arctic Airbases

    Selected air units of Russia’s Western military district will start this year preparations to return to abandoned Arctic airfields, the commander of the district’s aviation Maj. Gen. Igor Makushev said on Wednesday.

    Military airfields in the Arctic were used extensively in the Soviet era, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 they have been generally mothballed.

    “We will start reopening airfields on Novaya Zemlya and in Naryan-Mar as early as this summer,” Makushev told a news conference in St. Petersburg.

    Plans for next year include the reopening of a military airfield on Graham Bell Island, which is part of Franz Josef Land.

    Russia has announced plans to deploy a combined-arms force to protect its political and economic interests in the Arctic region by 2020, including military, border and coastal guard units to guarantee Russia's military security in diverse military and political circumstances.

    Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said in July 2011 that two arctic brigades would be stationed in “Murmansk or Arkhangelsk or some other place.”

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120530/173757083.html
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:36 am

    Transport aviation plans:

    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=76013
    http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/0/co/2330325.htm

    100 MTA
    10 An-140s already ordered, highly likely there will be follow on.
    60 An-70
    41 Il-76MDM (modernization). In 2011, 12 Il-76s were repaired, while in 2009 and 2010, only 2-3 planes were repaired yearly.
    40 Il-476
    An-124: 1st stage 2011-2015, 11 to be modernized, 2nd stage 2016-2020 another 10 slated for modernization. They will be ordering new build planes as well, and goal is to have "25 combat ready An-124s by 2020".

    Now, even accounting for time-table changes and likely force re-organization, that seems very ambitious, and a sizable number considering the size of the RuAF as a whole, in 2020.
    I'd like to see more modest plans for Transport aviation in exchange for a MiG-35 batch.
    Also looks like An-70 and MTA commitments are firm.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:29 am

    MTA and An-70 are in different classes.

    The MTA is a direct replacement for An-12 and does not really exceed the payload capacity at all, so it will likely just be more sophisticated and cheaper to operate replacement for an older platform.

    The An-70 is a bit like the Su-34 in that it might have been designed to replace the Su-24 (AN-12) but its improved performance and capabilities means it can actually replace the next model up.. which in strike terms is the Tu-22M3 and in transport terms is the Il-76.

    The An-70 should be easily better than the early models of the Il-76, though it might lack speed performance... though when dropping things by parachute that is a good thing.

    I think both aircraft will be very useful and internationally the An-70 will offer air forces an aircraft significantly more capable than any model Herc (C-130) but without the peak performance and also without the enormous cost of a C-17. To take a 30 ton payload from A to B it would be much cheaper to use an AN-70.

    For countries not operating 70 ton tanks the An-70 would be fine.
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    Post  Viktor Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:20 pm

    Now this is interesting. Does anybody know how many military bases will there be by 2020 or batter its location?

    He mentioned work on Russia’s military airfield network. During the last four years, four new airfields were built and 28 were reportedly modernized. Work to the tune of 40 billion rubles is planned for nine more over the coming four years.

    LINK
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:48 pm

    http://russianplanes.net/id80209

    Wow great pic! Helicopter base, Ka-52s, Mi-24s, Mi-8s, and a Su-25UB taking of.
    Andy_Wiz
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    Post  Andy_Wiz Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:04 am

    Hi guys, long time no see.
    I just did this spreadsheet of RuAF programs going forward
    Download it here and here
    This is not complete I have more data, I just decided to post it as is. Perhaps I'll update it later.
    If you have data on codenames, numbers (existing/planned) please PM me to not spam the topic.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:05 am

    Nice, Andy, thanks for posting.

    Are both spreadsheets the same? I assumed so and only downloaded one.

    Also... might be a dumb question, but why make a spreadsheet in Word instead of Excel?

    Thanks again for posting. Smile

    Edit: I just read you posting the same spreadsheet on MP.net, and after reading a complaint about problems downloading on a mobile phone from Artjohm a joke reply popped into my head... "Take a tablet".... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Embarassed of course because a tablet computer would be easier to use than a phone... OK I didn't say it was a good joke. Smile
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:52 am

    lol funny thing is last night I was browsing in bed on an iPad, and tried to open Andy's spreadsheet to little success!

    Works fine on my desktop though, good work.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:11 am

    So can we say tablets didn't help? Smile

    Maybe you need prescribed tablets...
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    Post  Andy_Wiz Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:27 am

    GarryB wrote:Nice, Andy, thanks for posting.

    Are both spreadsheets the same? I assumed so and only downloaded one.

    No. the depositfile link is more debugged.

    GarryB wrote:
    Also... might be a dumb question, but why make a spreadsheet in Word instead of Excel?

    Thanks again for posting. Smile

    Hey, I am a Word guy Cool

    Thanks, Garry and TR1!
    I have no had time to update it yet. I will be updating here as well. If you have comments use PM or send me an email mykhas@gmail.com
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:52 pm

    Ok, so my feedback and general musings about your data Andy, from top down:
    1.) Su-27SM3 - AFAIK the program is complete, are there really firm plans for more to be upgraded?
    2.) MiG-29SMT- should probably indicate the new UBs (6 of them from the Algerian order), they are not SMTs but are will last much longer than legacy MiG-29s.
    3.) PAK-FA plan is quite a bit more than 150, but I would refrain from guessing there due to so many variables.
    4.) From what I gathered @ BMPD.ru, there are ~50 Gefest Su-24s today. Su-24M2 numbers are more of a mystery - 24 were upgraded @ NAPO, but another workshop was involved (forget which), so the number is anywhere frm 24-48.
    5.) Do you know if the Gefest upgrade involves recapitalizing the airframe like Su-24M2?
    6.) http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/archive/2356/2356154.htm
    VTA plans
    7.) I believe there are only 2 An-140s delivered to date. Also they mentioned it is going to be used more as a light personnel lifter, not really a cargo plane.
    8.) Yak-130 orders AFAIK are 12 for the 1st batch, 55 for the 2nd, and 10 for the 3rd batch. There were 11 in service @ the end of 2011, and another 15 are joining them this year.
    9.) 48 Mi-35Ms are on order.
    10.) I don't think anywhere near 12 Ka-50s are flight worthy today, maybe half that number.
    11.)My numbers for Ansat-U are up to 70 through 2020.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:12 am

    I would add I think I read somewhere that Klimov were working on the new 2,700hp engines for the new Russian helos in the 10 ton class... ie Mi-28N/M, Ka-52, Ka-32 etc and they would be ready for production in 2014/15 with the new engine so that they don't need to buy the engines from the Ukraine...
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:49 am

    Russian AF to proceed with plans to buy 50 Eurocopter for training/utility

    Defense Ministry did not abandon its plans to purchase abroad, a large party of light helicopters.

    The first five copter of Western European group Eurocopter already on trial in the State Flight Test Center, "Interfax-AVN" on Wednesday, a source familiar with the situation.

    "In the GLIC in the test group received five helicopters, Eurocopter - two twin-engine AS355NP and three single engine AS350B3", - said.

    He noted that, although announced in earlier this year a tender for the purchase of 50 multi-purpose light helicopter (43 single-engine and 7 twin ) of the total cost of 6.5 billion rubles, the Ministry of Defence has canceled what was officially announced on the website actually talks continued.

    "The parties have agreed to test the helicopter and then make a final decision about their purchase," - said.

    http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=253847

    All of these foreign purchases are starting to make me sick.

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