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Turkish-Indonesian "medium" tank Harimau at the exhibition Indo Defense 2018
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3410184.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3410184.html
General Main Battle Tank Technology Thread:
George1- Posts : 14705
Points : 15204
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
George1- Posts : 14705
Points : 15204
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
New turret for the Challenger 2 tank
At the Defense Exhibition Defense and Security Equipment International (DSEI) 2019, held in London from September 10 to 13, 2019, the British joint venture Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL), recently created by the German group Rheinmetall and the BAE Systems corporation, presented a demonstrator of the radical modernization of the British main tank Challenger 2 for the long-running program of the British army Challenger 2 Life Extension Project (LEP). RBSL's proposal is to install a new turret on the tank with the Rheinmetall Rh 120 L55A1 120 mm smoothbore tank gun.
At the DSEI-2019, a tank demonstrator is displayed, equipped with a new turret model (the actual tower developer is Rheinmetall). The upgraded tank will also be equipped with completely new fire control, surveillance and communication systems, and the DM11 programmable high-explosive fragmentation round will be included in the ammunition of the new 120 mm smoothbore gun. 1200 hp diesel engine perkins It is also supposed to be replaced by a German MTU of 1,500 hp.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3769240.html
Isos- Posts : 5567
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Join date : 2015-11-07
- Post n°503
I couldn't find the right thread for that video so I put it here.
Isos on Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:39 pm
I couldn't find the right thread for that video so I put it here.
It is a good explaination of how leo 2A5 add on protection works on the turret. Contrary to what I thought it is not "armor" but a "trap" for APFSDS. That doesn't add a value in millimeters to the protection and if you have a long enough apfsds it is useless and the protection value falls to that of leo 2A4. The t-14 new rounds should be able to counter that effect.
It is a good explaination of how leo 2A5 add on protection works on the turret. Contrary to what I thought it is not "armor" but a "trap" for APFSDS. That doesn't add a value in millimeters to the protection and if you have a long enough apfsds it is useless and the protection value falls to that of leo 2A4. The t-14 new rounds should be able to counter that effect.
GarryB- Posts : 25005
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Hahahaha.... nice try... but that is just crap.
Are you trying to say that to protect a tank from any sheet metal structure a metre from the surface armour will yaw the penetrator and make it ineffective?
Really?
So can you please explain how APFSDS rounds were shown to penetrate the frontal armour of monkey model Iraqi T-72s during Desert Storm and were also able to exit the rear of the vehicle... through the engine compartment and out the back of the vehicle?
That is just bullshit.
I do agree that angled plate is only effective against full calibre armour penetrators by deflecting their path and causing them to bounce or ricochet, but sabot rounds don't bounce or ricochet... even after passing through things... otherwise sitting your tank behind any structure at all would make it safe.
The new Afghansti APS system uses directed explosions to yaw APFSDS rounds to render them ineffective, but I am seriously doubting this contraption on Leopard tanks does that too.
Are you trying to say that to protect a tank from any sheet metal structure a metre from the surface armour will yaw the penetrator and make it ineffective?
Really?
So can you please explain how APFSDS rounds were shown to penetrate the frontal armour of monkey model Iraqi T-72s during Desert Storm and were also able to exit the rear of the vehicle... through the engine compartment and out the back of the vehicle?
That is just bullshit.
I do agree that angled plate is only effective against full calibre armour penetrators by deflecting their path and causing them to bounce or ricochet, but sabot rounds don't bounce or ricochet... even after passing through things... otherwise sitting your tank behind any structure at all would make it safe.
The new Afghansti APS system uses directed explosions to yaw APFSDS rounds to render them ineffective, but I am seriously doubting this contraption on Leopard tanks does that too.
Isos- Posts : 5567
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Well it's not like germans would lie and put into service something that doesn't work. It was tested against nato rounds which are longer than russian ones (that are in service). I can't argue on that as I have no knowledge about this technology. I thought it was full of hard metals at first and it ended up being empty add on.
The other nice thing is that it is very good against HEAT missiles. It's a 1m spaced armor that degrade significantly the penetration capability the warehead.
The other nice thing is that it is very good against HEAT missiles. It's a 1m spaced armor that degrade significantly the penetration capability the warehead.
GarryB- Posts : 25005
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Except most HEAT warheads would be directed at the sides or rear of tanks... even Konkurs penetrated Abrams turrets in such situations.
The west lied for decades about their super powerful ATGMs... Milan and TOW could penetrate metres of armour it seems.
Spaced armour simply isn't that effective... but it is light and it is cheap... so who is getting screwed because Leopards are not cheap tanks...
Well it's not like germans would lie and put into service something that doesn't work.
The west lied for decades about their super powerful ATGMs... Milan and TOW could penetrate metres of armour it seems.
Spaced armour simply isn't that effective... but it is light and it is cheap... so who is getting screwed because Leopards are not cheap tanks...
Swede55- Posts : 17
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Join date : 2014-08-28
If you want to yaw an APFSDS projectile, wouldn't holy armour work better than thin steel plates, ie steel
plates with closely spaced holes about the diameter of the expected enemy projectile. Then the long rod or projectile would probably hit an edge of the hole, causing resistance on one side of the projectile with no resistance on the other side, causing yaw. The Israelis used this as side protection on their M113's as I recall.
plates with closely spaced holes about the diameter of the expected enemy projectile. Then the long rod or projectile would probably hit an edge of the hole, causing resistance on one side of the projectile with no resistance on the other side, causing yaw. The Israelis used this as side protection on their M113's as I recall.
GarryB- Posts : 25005
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I have seen grazing penetrations of tank turrets that gouged a channel about a metre long in the near horizontal top of a turret... if that didn't make it yaw then plates with holes in them wont either.
Have seen lots of designs including with metal balls packed inside a space where they can move with the initial impact, and I have seen layered armour types designed to slide and shear off the sharp tip of a penetrator... the most effective were the heavy ERA designs that did just that... guillotined the tip of the penetrator so that it had to waste a lot of energy penetrating with a blunt tip. At the speeds it is moving it still penetrates, but not as efficiently as it needs to forge itself a new tip on the main armour.
Armour plate with holes in it as the huge advantage of obviously being lighter than a solid sheet of metal, and if you layer them you can cover more area with less weight and less cost in metal, but it is really only effective against full calibre rounds like HMG ammo because full calibre rounds readily yaw which renders their penetration performance down to near zero against armour that would not normally stop that sort of round.
Perforated steel planking is used for makeshift airfields to allow heavy vehicles to operate in places that would otherwise get too muddy too quickly to be useful... so there would be an abundance of metal sheets with holes in it laying around to be pinched and used in fixed positions...
Have seen lots of designs including with metal balls packed inside a space where they can move with the initial impact, and I have seen layered armour types designed to slide and shear off the sharp tip of a penetrator... the most effective were the heavy ERA designs that did just that... guillotined the tip of the penetrator so that it had to waste a lot of energy penetrating with a blunt tip. At the speeds it is moving it still penetrates, but not as efficiently as it needs to forge itself a new tip on the main armour.
Armour plate with holes in it as the huge advantage of obviously being lighter than a solid sheet of metal, and if you layer them you can cover more area with less weight and less cost in metal, but it is really only effective against full calibre rounds like HMG ammo because full calibre rounds readily yaw which renders their penetration performance down to near zero against armour that would not normally stop that sort of round.
Perforated steel planking is used for makeshift airfields to allow heavy vehicles to operate in places that would otherwise get too muddy too quickly to be useful... so there would be an abundance of metal sheets with holes in it laying around to be pinched and used in fixed positions...
kvs- Posts : 6224
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People have no physical intuition about what a sabot projectile sees. It basically sees soft targets (even if they are hardened
steel) and a husk is the least likely to induce any trajectory deviation. A meter thick plate of armor would have much more
impact on disrupting the sabot trajectory much like a bullet fired through gelatin. The interior of the solid armor becomes an
echo chamber of shock waves that can focus and resonate. A husk like the one shown is basically invisible to the sabot.
steel) and a husk is the least likely to induce any trajectory deviation. A meter thick plate of armor would have much more
impact on disrupting the sabot trajectory much like a bullet fired through gelatin. The interior of the solid armor becomes an
echo chamber of shock waves that can focus and resonate. A husk like the one shown is basically invisible to the sabot.
Hole- Posts : 2898
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The so-called arrowhead-spahed armour modules covering the frontal arc of the turret are made of laminated armour. They consist of three parts: the disturber, the disrupter (which is intended to break the KE-penetrator) and the absorber (which absorbs the splinters of the broken penetrator).
kvs- Posts : 6224
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Join date : 2014-09-11
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Hole wrote:The so-called arrowhead-spahed armour modules covering the frontal arc of the turret are made of laminated armour. They consist of three parts: the disturber, the disrupter (which is intended to break the KE-penetrator) and the absorber (which absorbs the splinters of the broken penetrator).
That's the claim, but the photo shows an object which has walls too thin to matter. In fact, the photo indicates fraud. Since
any serious laminated armor would have substantial amounts of ceramics. A thin layer of ceramics is pointless.
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