General Main Battle Tank Technology Thread:

Turkish-Indonesian "medium" tank Harimau at the exhibition Indo Defense 2018













https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3410184.html

New turret for the Challenger 2 tank

At the Defense Exhibition Defense and Security Equipment International (DSEI) 2019, held in London from September 10 to 13, 2019, the British joint venture Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL), recently created by the German group Rheinmetall and the BAE Systems corporation, presented a demonstrator of the radical modernization of the British main tank Challenger 2 for the long-running program of the British army Challenger 2 Life Extension Project (LEP). RBSL's proposal is to install a new turret on the tank with the Rheinmetall Rh 120 L55A1 120 mm smoothbore tank gun.

 At the DSEI-2019, a tank demonstrator is displayed, equipped with a new turret model (the actual tower developer is Rheinmetall). The upgraded tank will also be equipped with completely new fire control, surveillance and communication systems, and the DM11 programmable high-explosive fragmentation round will be included in the ammunition of the new 120 mm smoothbore gun. 1200 hp diesel engine perkins It is also supposed to be replaced by a German MTU of 1,500 hp.











https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3769240.html

Hahahaha.... nice try... but that is just crap.

Are you trying to say that to protect a tank from any sheet metal structure a metre from the surface armour will yaw the penetrator and make it ineffective?

Really?

So can you please explain how APFSDS rounds were shown to penetrate the frontal armour of monkey model Iraqi T-72s during Desert Storm and were also able to exit the rear of the vehicle... through the engine compartment and out the back of the vehicle?

That is just bullshit.

I do agree that angled plate is only effective against full calibre armour penetrators by deflecting their path and causing them to bounce or ricochet, but sabot rounds don't bounce or ricochet... even after passing through things... otherwise sitting your tank behind any structure at all would make it safe.

The new Afghansti APS system uses directed explosions to yaw APFSDS rounds to render them ineffective, but I am seriously doubting this contraption on Leopard tanks does that too.

Except most HEAT warheads would be directed at the sides or rear of tanks... even Konkurs penetrated Abrams turrets in such situations.

Well it's not like germans would lie and put into service something that doesn't work.

The west lied for decades about their super powerful ATGMs... Milan and TOW could penetrate metres of armour it seems.

Spaced armour simply isn't that effective... but it is light and it is cheap... so who is getting screwed because Leopards are not cheap tanks...

If you want to yaw an APFSDS projectile, wouldn't holy armour work better than thin steel plates, ie steel
plates with closely spaced holes about the diameter of the expected enemy projectile. Then the long rod or projectile would probably hit an edge of the hole, causing resistance on one side of the projectile with no resistance on the other side, causing yaw. The Israelis used this as side protection on their M113's as I recall.

I have seen grazing penetrations of tank turrets that gouged a channel about a metre long in the near horizontal top of a turret... if that didn't make it yaw then plates with holes in them wont either.

Have seen lots of designs including with metal balls packed inside a space where they can move with the initial impact, and I have seen layered armour types designed to slide and shear off the sharp tip of a penetrator... the most effective were the heavy ERA designs that did just that... guillotined the tip of the penetrator so that it had to waste a lot of energy penetrating with a blunt tip. At the speeds it is moving it still penetrates, but not as efficiently as it needs to forge itself a new tip on the main armour.

Armour plate with holes in it as the huge advantage of obviously being lighter than a solid sheet of metal, and if you layer them you can cover more area with less weight and less cost in metal, but it is really only effective against full calibre rounds like HMG ammo because full calibre rounds readily yaw which renders their penetration performance down to near zero against armour that would not normally stop that sort of round.

Perforated steel planking is used for makeshift airfields to allow heavy vehicles to operate in places that would otherwise get too muddy too quickly to be useful... so there would be an abundance of metal sheets with holes in it laying around to be pinched and used in fixed positions...

The so-called arrowhead-spahed armour modules covering the frontal arc of the turret are made of laminated armour. They consist of three parts: the disturber, the disrupter (which is intended to break the KE-penetrator) and the absorber (which absorbs the splinters of the broken penetrator).

Tests of the 130-mm Rheinmetall tank gun

The German group Rheinmetall has distributed photos and videos of tests of its promising 130-mm smooth-bore L51 tank gun installed in a new turret with an automatic loader on the chassis of the British main tank Challenger 2. This combination was created as part of another proposal for the long-running program of the British army to modernize these tanks Challenger 2 Life Extension Programe (LEP). A prototype of a promising 130-mm smoothbore tank gun Rheinmetall L51, installed in a new turret with an automatic loader on the chassis of the British main tank Challenger 2 (c) frame from Rheinmetall video

Recall that in 2019, the British joint venture Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL), created by Rheinmetall and BAE Systems Corporation, presented a demonstrator of the modernization option for the British Challenger 2 tank under the British Army Challenger 2 Life Extension Project (LEP) with the installation of a new tower with 120 -mm smoothbore tank gun Rheinmetall Rh 120 L55A1 (the actual developer of the tower itself is also Rheinmetall). Now a variant with the promising 130-mm L51 tank gun, which is being developed by Rheinmetall, is also presented, although the likelihood of the British choosing a new 130-mm cannon, which is actually only in the initial stage of development, seems unlikely.

Rheinmetall's advanced 130mm smoothbore tank gun, originally designated Next Generation (NG) 130, was first presented at Eurosatory 2016 in Paris in June 2016. Field tests of the first prototype ("technology demonstrator") of the 130-mm cannon began in 2019, and a Rheinmetall spokesman reported that by November 2019, about 80 rounds of the first prototype gun had been fired at the range, and that the production of the second had begun. a prototype gun with certain design changes.

The developer said the 130mm gun has a 51 caliber (L51) barrel and uses new high-strength steel and a chrome-plated barrel. The gun is equipped with a vertical wedge breech, an electric mechanism for firing a shot and an increased chamber volume, which allows the use of a larger charge to obtain a higher initial velocity and, therefore, higher armor penetration characteristics. According to the representative, the gun barrel has an insulating casing and a barrel bend control system. The barrel of the 130 mm cannon has an actual length of 6.63 m, and the total weight of the gun is 3000 kg, including retractable mechanisms, but without mounting elements for installation in the turret.

A spokesman for Rheinmetall stated that the chamber of the first experimental gun NG 130 has a volume of 15 liters and a design pressure of 880 MPa, but that “thanks to the experience and knowledge gained during testing in real time, this data will be changed in the next stage of development.”

First 130 -mm round, developed by Rheinmetall, is an APFSDS-T armor-piercing projectile with a detachable tray (APFSDS-T) with a semi-combustible sleeve, a new high-energy powder charge classified as insensitive to detonation, and a new improved long-length tungsten armor-piercing core with increased armor penetration.







https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4102586.html

Tiny problem with that story is that it compares the cost of a high velocity gun fired round with the cost of a cruise missile, and a helicopter launched anti armour missile and a shoulder launched anti armour missile that wasn't that much cheaper than a hellfire but rather less capable in every way...

The point is that these very high velocity rounds are kinetic rounds so shooting down targets if they are guided works, but despite being much much cheaper than a Tomahawk missile these high velocity guns probably can't hit targets 1,500km away with a 400kg HE payload either... so it is not really that relevant.

If they are using it to shoot down subsonic cruise missiles then it might be relevant to compare the price of Patriot and ground launched AMRAAM and Stinger missiles I suppose...


BTW regarding German tank armour... in the Gulf War US troops claimed to have fully penetrated Iraqi monkey model T-72s... front hull armour... through the entire crew compartment and turret area, through the engine and out the rear of the vehicle... why don't their penetrators yaw with what would effectively be more than 2.5m of spaced armour...