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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11

    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:58 pm

    I highly agree with above suggestion. Then Russia can sit back and watch the orders for the aircraft roll in especially African, South and central American countries and some Asian countries. And even some Syrian pilots could be trained to use them. Its very surprising that Mig-21 is still operating considering the amount of flying hours they have put in and age of the aircraft. Testament to soviet engineering

    As for the Mig-31BM Russia bringing them to Syria can easily be justified as like I said for escorting duties and protect airspace for Russian troops and assad government. I believe that the USA and Russia have resumed there flight safety agreement and at the end of the day Russian airforce has been invited into Syria unlike the coalition so Russia can what it wants. Russia has the right to protect its forces and aircraft
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:27 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:I highly agree with above suggestion. Then Russia can sit back and watch the orders for the aircraft roll in especially African, South and central American countries and some Asian countries. And even some Syrian pilots could be trained to use them. Its very surprising that Mig-21 is still operating considering the amount of flying hours they have put in and age of the aircraft. Testament to soviet engineering

    As for the Mig-31BM Russia bringing them to Syria can easily be justified as like I said for escorting duties and protect airspace for Russian troops and assad government. I believe that the USA and Russia have resumed there flight safety agreement and at the end of the day Russian airforce has been invited into Syria unlike the coalition so Russia can what it wants. Russia has the right to protect its forces and aircraft
    No point in using the Mig-31 in Syria. It is an end of an era plane and their remaining flight hours are much too valuable protecting Russia to waste in Syria. It is nor that there is any export customer, the only two countries that could use it are probably Canada and Australia so forget that even if more were made.

    Whilst the Mig-21's service is pretty outstanding it is possible that similar vintage Western aircraft would still be in service were it not for the 'replace to get the profit' mentality of western MICs. Think Super Etendard, F-5 and A-4 Skyhawk many of which are being deliberately killed off.
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    ult

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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 23 Empty Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11

    Post  ult Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:38 pm

    Su-27SM bombload...

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 23 RAb3AE1

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 23 DfyyslO



    Last edited by ult on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:44 pm

    Agreed that the Mig -31BM has no real export customers only country possibly would be Algeria replacing it's mig-25 but even that would probably only be around 12 aircraft. But it's more for pilot experience.

    The amount of sorties the Mig -21 has performed under combat conditions is incredible. You mention western aircraft in a comparison but I disagree because even if western airforce had these still in service no western aircraft have been pushed to the lengths the Mig -21 have done in Syria. No western country would face a 6 year long war on its own soil with sanctions against it and proxy war with many terrorists funded by rich countries and providin training weapons Intel and a large group of developed countries formed into coalition against it. With only two countries helping it.

    I also wondered if Russia still had stock of Mig-21 parts and anyone still trained on maintenance etc to help support Syrian mig-21 but I am guessing it would be slim.
    calm
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    Post  calm Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:39 pm

    Right out of the box! First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria
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    par far

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    Post  par far Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:34 pm

    calm wrote:Right out of the box!  First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria



    Why do they need those for? Just testing?
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:46 pm

    par far wrote:
    calm wrote:Right out of the box!  First time we have knowingly seen 9K333 "Verba" Russia latest MANPAD in Syria



    Why do they need those for? Just testing?

    Real combat testing of Verba MANPAD against small drones with very small radar and IR signature.
    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:50 pm

    ult wrote:Su-27SM bombload...

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 23 RAb3AE1

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 23 DfyyslO


    Excellent video. I wonder if this precision strike is done by this Su-27SM3 with unguided bomb? If yes, than it is very precise. But there is still a possibility, that this was done by guided bomb. Anyway bombload of Su-27SM3 looks great. 30 bombs, most probably FAB-100 under 5 hardpoints. With such precision 30 bombs mean 30 targets.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:41 am

    Tonight, the Russian calculations of the latest portable air defense missile system "Verba" destroyed the hijackers of the terrorists "Hayat Tahrir ash Sham" ("Jebhat An-Nusra" *), which was used to correct the fire of militants in Damascus, including the block with the Russian embassy.

    Recall that in order to ensure security and compliance with the ceasefire in the zone of de-escalation in the area of ​​East Huti since July 24, 2 checkpoints and 4 observation posts were exhibited. Military officers of the Russian Federation military police with specially trained units of government forces of the Syrian Arab Republic are on duty at these posts.

    In addition, to ensure security and prevent provocation using unmanned aerial vehicles, which are often used by the fighters "Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham", since August 2, over East Guta, a no-fly zone has been declared for all types of aircraft regardless of their belonging. At the same time, calculations of the latest systems of MANPADS "Verba" were deployed at the two checkpoints and put on alert duty.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2768365.html

    calm
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    Post  calm Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:53 pm

    calm
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    Post  calm Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:00 am

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:07 am

    Thing is the Yak-130 doesn't have the pilot protection the SU-25 does which is a major requirement for a CAS.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:14 pm

    The yak -130 isn't intended as CAS but a light multi role. And could easily launch/attack enemy targets outside of anti air guns and manpad
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:40 pm

    Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.
    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:22 pm

    eehnie wrote:Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.

    No, Yak-130 is not replaceing L-39, but is further step from L-39 to modern multirole jets. Also, they still need L-39 between Yak-52 and Yak-130. Next year RuAF academies will start receiving SR-10 jet trainers, which will actually replace L-39. For restoration of Syrian AF after war, it will be better to buy new build SR-10 trainers than old L-39. Don't forget that RuAF have old basic trainer L-39C and not light attack trainers L-39ZO or L-39ZA, which Syrian AF have. L-39C are really old now and they don't have much flying hours left. Maybe they could give them for spare parts.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:31 pm

    If I am correct the Russians use L-39C which wasn't really used for dedicated ground attack I think only the ZA and ZO and few more modern models had a decent capability and most are way past their life. The sole 2 reasons to field a few yak -130 is to combat test it and to show case it to potential buyers Russia won't be selling its L-39 it uses ones in not so good shape for target testing and unmanned aircraft tests. L-39 in Syrian airforce is being used out of necessity not because it's ideal it's used in strafing runs using gun pods and rocket pods it has no armour and a lot slower than other aircraft in service in Syria. At least yak -130 can attack targets out of enemy reach
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:34 pm

    Sorry I was typing this on my mobile while you must have posted but in my post it backs up what you stated
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:41 pm

    Aldin @aldin_ww 1h1 hour ago

    #Russia AF Mi-28UB to be sent to Syria for a testing purposes.
    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:56 pm

    calm wrote:

    What a contrast. Italy build monuments to Russian soldiers, while Poland and some other eastern states are destroying them.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:26 am

    medo wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Russia needs the current production of Yak-130 to replace their own L-39.

    For Russia it makes not sense to send Yak-130 to Syria, because it means a delay in their own procurement, and a need to keep longer time the L-39. It makes a lot more sense for Russia to send their old L-39 to Syria at the rythm of the replacement by Yak-130 in the own fleet. It is a well known aircraft in Syria and has also an application as Fighter Ground Attack.

    It is very likely to see important numbers of Russian L-39 coming to Syria to help restoring the Syrian Air Force.

    Also the Be-12 would be useful for Syria.

    No, Yak-130 is not replaceing L-39, but is further step from L-39 to modern multirole jets. Also, they still need L-39 between Yak-52 and Yak-130. Next year RuAF academies will start receiving SR-10 jet trainers, which will actually replace L-39. For restoration of Syrian AF after war, it will be better to buy new build SR-10 trainers than old L-39. Don't forget that RuAF have old basic trainer L-39C and not light attack trainers L-39ZO or L-39ZA, which Syrian AF have. L-39C are really old now and they don't have much flying hours left. Maybe they could give them for spare parts.

    I saw not news about the adoption or about orders of this aircraft (that lost at the time the contest for basic trainer vs the Yak-152). Do you have some link to official statements? (something above of the logical self promotion of the company that produces the SR-10)

    Waiting to some link, my view about it is different, from what I saw until now. At the time of the call for the constests for new trainer aircrafts, the model of the future Russian pilot training system was exposed, and it was clearly divided in 2 phases, with one future basic trainer (winner Yak-152) and one future advanced trainer (winner Yak-130).

    Today, the introduction of the Yak-130 started, but has not been completed. In order to make not differences between the trainer program of every student the advanced phase of the training is divided between the L-39 and the Yak-130, with the L-39 used before because is smaller and less powerful. But it means not a change in the plan of the initial 2 training phases.

    And in 2018 or 2019, when the procurement of the Yak-152 be enough, also the basic phase of the training progran will be likely divided by the same way between the Yak-52 and the Yak-152. And neither it will mean a new phase in the training program of the future Russian pilots, despite to train in 4 different aircrafts during some years.

    But, even if you would be right, something that I doubt seriously, the procurement of Yak-130 to Syria would also delay the procurement of Yak-130 to Russia. The current order of aircrafts has not been completed, it means Russia finnished not still its own procurement. New Yak-130 and Yak-152 will come to the Russian training schools. It will mean likely a reduction of the oldest aircrafts. The Yak-52 has not value for combat operations. but what better to do for Russia with the exceeding L-39s?


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:34 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:If I am correct the Russians use L-39C which wasn't really used for dedicated ground attack I think only the ZA and ZO and few more modern models had a decent capability and most are way past their life. The sole 2 reasons to field a few yak -130 is to combat test it and to show case it to potential buyers Russia won't be selling its L-39 it uses ones in not so good shape for target testing and unmanned aircraft tests. L-39 in Syrian airforce is being used out of necessity not because it's ideal it's used in strafing runs using gun pods and rocket pods it has no armour and a lot slower than other aircraft in service in Syria. At least yak -130 can attack targets out of enemy reach

    Syria is not new doing the modification.

    In the other side, until now it has not been produced a single unit of the Yak-130 for FGA role.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:51 am

    Sending 4-6 yak -130 is hardly going to cause much of a delay and the outcome of sending these aircraft to Syria for combat testing and show casing will yield long term benefits in export sales. And it makes more sense to upgrade yak -130 to attack version for Syria as they will have to produce armed versions at some point if there serious in exporting as light attack and it wouldn't take much to do it either makes sense to spent money on that than spend it upgrading aircraft which are on the verge of being retired (L-39) and just to produce an aircraft that's only capable of strafing runs while a yak -130 would be able to carry more munitions as well a much more different variety of munitions and thus be more effective and more useful
    calm
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    Post  calm Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:12 pm

    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:42 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Sending 4-6 yak -130 is hardly going to cause much of a delay and the outcome of sending these aircraft to Syria for combat testing and show casing will yield long term benefits in export sales. And it makes more sense to upgrade yak -130 to attack version for Syria as they will have to produce armed versions at some point if there serious in exporting as light attack and it wouldn't take much to do it either makes sense to spent money on that than spend it upgrading aircraft which are on the verge of being retired (L-39) and just to produce an aircraft that's only capable of strafing runs while a yak -130 would be able to carry more munitions as well a much more different variety of munitions and thus be more effective and more useful

    The delay is assured. If I'm not wrong 4-6 Yak-130 means around 5-7 months of delay at the current rythm of production. To increase the rythm of production has also a cost. I do not think it will happen.

    In the case of the L-39, sending them to Syria means to avoid scrapping costs, and means not a significant decreasing of Russian military capabilities.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:34 pm

    But upgrading L-39 and then shipping then to Syria far out weight the use of aircraft that like I said only useful for strafing runs. I am sure Russia would sacrifice 5-7 months delay for potential sales or 10's maybe even into 100's of sales of yak - 130 to countries across the world. And like said before yak - 130 is better suited for Syria than L-39. You know this all makes perfect sense. But I understand that you have a passion for wanting to use really old outdated stuff going by your posts in the past. But I think Russia would rather invest in a newer aircraft like yak -130 than old nearly on scrap heap L-39. And I am sure pilots would feel much more comfortable and safer flying a yak - 130 than old and tired L-39 that has to get up close for an attack when yak - 130 can stay out of range and as for scrapping costs the Russian MOD would sell them to a scrappage company and actually make money not lose money and nothing sensitive to remove plus like I said in earlier post Russia uses them for flying targets and unmanned aircraft tests

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