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68 posters

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:05 pm

    par far wrote:
    franco wrote:
    par far wrote:
    franco wrote:Russia sends more upgraded Su-24M's to Syria. Total is up to 22 according to this article plus if my memory serves me correctly there are also 8 Mig-29SMP.

    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html


    Would it not better to give Syria aircraft that can be effective against ground targets and air targets as well? Let's say that the Russian's don't want to bomb close to US forces, can they have the Syrian's do that for them?(By giving the Syrians air to air capabilities, they would not need to be afraid of US fighters jet and they can keep the Turkish fighter jets out.) Would not training the Syrian's on the SU 30, be more beneficial to Russia? Or is that too costly?

    30 would be too expensive for now. Believe they are trying to do that with the mig-29smp which is an upgrade close to 29SMT level.

    The SU 30 would be expensive, do you think 20-25 MIG 29 SMP, will be enough for Syria or will they need more?

    It would probably not be in Russia's interests for the SyAF to have a widespread or good AAM capability as that would raise the prospect of a SyAF pilot having a go at a UASF plane. Much better to keep the prime interceptor function under their own direct control.

    Also, the SyAF seems to be fairly short of pilots so supplying updated Su-24s will keep those pilots tasked with the vital CAS work as well as well motivated with better tools than they have now.

    The US are now saying that the anti conflict hot-line is back in action.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:54 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    par far wrote:
    franco wrote:
    par far wrote:
    franco wrote:Russia sends more upgraded Su-24M's to Syria. Total is up to 22 according to this article plus if my memory serves me correctly there are also 8 Mig-29SMP.

    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html


    Would it not better to give Syria aircraft that can be effective against ground targets and air targets as well? Let's say that the Russian's don't want to bomb close to US forces, can they have the Syrian's do that for them?(By giving the Syrians air to air capabilities, they would not need to be afraid of US fighters jet and they can keep the Turkish fighter jets out.) Would not training the Syrian's on the SU 30, be more beneficial to Russia? Or is that too costly?

    30 would be too expensive for now. Believe they are trying to do that with the mig-29smp which is an upgrade close to 29SMT level.

    The SU 30 would be expensive, do you think 20-25 MIG 29 SMP, will be enough for Syria or will they need more?

    It would probably not be in Russia's interests for the SyAF to have a widespread or good AAM capability as that would raise the prospect of a SyAF pilot having a go at a UASF plane. Much better to keep the prime interceptor function under their own direct control.

    Also, the SyAF seems to be fairly short of pilots so supplying updated Su-24s will keep those pilots tasked with the vital CAS work as well as well motivated with better tools than they have now.

    The US are now saying that the anti conflict hot-line is back in action.

    No need to withhold any AAMs, those weapons have long been available, there's money to be made, besides Syria knows they'll have to few to do a damn thing, and without a proper AD network it's all meaningless, leave the American birds to the Russian Flankers.
    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:01 pm

    franco wrote:Russia sends more upgraded Su-24M's to Syria. Total is up to 22 according to this article plus if my memory serves me correctly there are also 8 Mig-29SMP.

    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html

    Good news. There is only a question, if they are ex RuAF Su-24M2 or modernized Syrian Su-24M2. Last year Russia delivered 2 Su-24M2 from RuAF Far East regiment.
    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:00 pm

    medo wrote:
    franco wrote:Russia sends more upgraded Su-24M's to Syria. Total is up to 22 according to this article plus if my memory serves me correctly there are also 8 Mig-29SMP.

    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html

    Good news. There is only a question, if they are ex RuAF Su-24M2 or modernized Syrian Su-24M2. Last year Russia delivered 2 Su-24M2 from RuAF Far East regiment.

    My guess would be a mix.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:49 pm

    franco wrote:
    medo wrote:
    franco wrote:Russia sends more upgraded Su-24M's to Syria. Total is up to 22 according to this article plus if my memory serves me correctly there are also 8 Mig-29SMP.

    http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/syria-gains-more-upgraded-su-24m2-bombers.html

    Good news. There is only a question, if they are ex RuAF Su-24M2 or modernized Syrian Su-24M2. Last year Russia delivered 2 Su-24M2 from RuAF Far East regiment.

    My guess would be a mix.
    Are RuAF squadrons upgrading from Su-24s to Su-34s? If so maybe its the Su-24M2 squadrons going first, releasing their aircraft to Syria.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:17 pm


    Big bad McMaster risks going soft...

    McMaster on US-Russia relations: 'Nowhere to go but up'

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/329013-mcmaster-on-us-russia-relations-when-relations-are-at-the-lowest
    storm333
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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 Empty The rebels in Hama are being wished a happy Easter by the RuAF

    Post  storm333 Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:26 pm

    Jihadist scums are being drenched with thermobaric bombs
    https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/853622754268131328
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:00 pm

    storm333 wrote:Jihadist scums are being drenched with thermobaric bombs
    https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/853622754268131328
    That's a pretty good clip. Do those things air burst?


    storm333
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    Post  storm333 Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:28 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    storm333 wrote:Jihadist scums are being drenched with thermobaric bombs
    https://twitter.com/Syria_Protector/status/853622754268131328
    That's a pretty good clip. Do those things air burst?



    Based on readings those are naval mines retarded by parachutes. They detonate at roof level for maximum effect. According to al masdar news agency, the russians are using them to target sub terrain systems of Jihadist, and there use is expected to increase as they have been proven really effective.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:13 am


    ^^^Shockwave hits the ground and collapses the tunnels (in addition to surface slam). You don't even neet to know where tunnels are exactly, just hit general vicinity. Sweet and simple. thumbsup
    storm333
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    Post  storm333 Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:59 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ^^^Shockwave hits the ground and collapses the tunnels (in addition to surface slam). You don't even neet to know where tunnels are exactly, just hit general vicinity. Sweet and simple. thumbsup

    Pretty effective method of crushing cockroaches Very Happy . Appreciate the additional info
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:05 pm


    Russian sappers in Palmyra with new Legionary armor. So that could mean that these guys are those assault sappers we heard about?

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 17990538_1910862815823132_3615484796213432184_o

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 17991401_1910862949156452_4054555917220797084_o

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 17966626_1910862832489797_1876431805919911167_o

    ^^^Anyone know what that black padding on the legs of a guy in brown cammo is?


    More:
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1910862802489800.1073742358.1492252324350852&type=3
    archangelski
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    Post  archangelski Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Russian sappers in Palmyra with new Legionary armor. So that could mean that these guys are those assault sappers we heard about?


    ^^^Anyone know what that black padding on the legs of a guy in brown cammo is?


    More:
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1910862802489800.1073742358.1492252324350852&type=3

    And, at the same time, this small black ball ??? Thanks : Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 5lR4Jxs
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:06 am


    That small black ball is Sfera (Sphere) robot. It is supposed to scout tight spaces.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:12 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    That small black ball is Sfera (Sphere) robot. It is supposed to scout tight spaces.
    And by shear coincidence http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2556498.html more there but in Russian

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 Get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpp.userapi.com%2Fc636416%2Fv636416605%2F51678%2F0_2LiCvwO70

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 D3d3LmFybXMtZXhwby5ydS91cGxvYWQvbWVkaWFsaWJyYXJ5LzA5Yy8wOWM4YjZlZjdiYzVkZjRmZTgyYzY3ZTA3OGRlZGJiOS5qcGc=
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    Post  Guest Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:32 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    That small black ball is Sfera (Sphere) robot. It is supposed to scout tight spaces.
    And by shear coincidence http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2556498.html more there but in Russian

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 Get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpp.userapi.com%2Fc636416%2Fv636416605%2F51678%2F0_2LiCvwO70

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #11 - Page 9 D3d3LmFybXMtZXhwby5ydS91cGxvYWQvbWVkaWFsaWJyYXJ5LzA5Yy8wOWM4YjZlZjdiYzVkZjRmZTgyYzY3ZTA3OGRlZGJiOS5qcGc=

    I see IR light sources and cameras so.. i assume its some sort of UGV to scout confined spaces. Saw something very, very similar used by Israeli sappers some years ago.
    archangelski
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    Post  archangelski Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    That small black ball is Sfera (Sphere) robot. It is supposed to scout tight spaces.

    JohninMK wrote: And by shear coincidence http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2556498.html more there but in Russian

    Militarov wrote: I see IR light sources and cameras so.. i assume its some sort of UGV to scout confined spaces. Saw something very, very similar used by Israeli sappers some years ago.

    Thanks gentlemen...
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:21 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Or anyone with experience with reading Peskov it is: "I don't know".  Once again, he is known for this.  Not like it matters anyway.  Rumor has it that it was requested by Russia for Syria to move their more advanced planes to the Russian AB.

    It is obvious that the most advanced aircrafts with Syrian marks are between the most pursued targets by the US and Israel. It would be a logical movement.

    This is in part why I do not see Russia sending MiG-31 or other advanced aircrafts to Syria. But the less advanced, like the L-39, and more taking into account that have a lavel of training aircrafts and not combat aircrafts, can go to Syria easier and with very lower cost.

    Russia atm doesnt have enough L-39s for their own needs, let alone to waste them on Syria. Atm about 160 are fit for service. Majority of rest are graveyard material.

    With the Ya-130 in production, and with the first order of Yak-152 to be completed this year, it will not be shortage of L-39s for external supplies in the short/mid term. While the Yak-52 is likely to be exhausted in Russia, the L-39 can be perfectly used for external help in the following years (also taking into account that the procurement of the Yak-130 is more advanced than the procurement of Yak-152).

    The L-39 being also the training aircraft in Syria, is the ideal aircraft for this country to make faster and more effective the training process of new pilots, and to redeploy the pilots which aircrafts are lost, but were trained in L-39. Russia and Syria obviously know it.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:44 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From what we see until now in Syria the building of the air defenses of the country is coming from long time and is being done by saturation of towed systems (SA-2, SA-3 and SA-5), manpads (SA-7, SA-14, SA-16, SA-18, SA-24 and SA-25) and some of the oldest mobile systems (ZSU-23-4, SA-6). In addition to that there are low amounts of more modern and capable systems.

    The last attacks of Israel and the US, where both had significant loses shows how Syria is not far of achieving a no fly zone for their enemies based mostly on saturation with weaker systems plus something more capable.

    The use of some weapons is always more attractive for the media, but this is in overall terms a low technological level war.

    With an easy example, we can see the way that Syria is using to deal with hostile missiles and aircrafts, is to fire 5 SA-5 (S-200) missiles per hostile aircraft instead of 1 SA-10 (S-300) missile. Both Syria and Russia prefer this way, that is far more affordable for them.

    You cannot enforce no-fly zone with AD network no matter how good or up to date. You need an actual fighter-interceptor fleet of significant size to do so in cooperation.

    Air defence systems are extremly vulnerable without adequate support from air force, we saw that in every single conflict in last 40 years.

    Novorussia did it without fighter intercepters.
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    Post  Guest Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From what we see until now in Syria the building of the air defenses of the country is coming from long time and is being done by saturation of towed systems (SA-2, SA-3 and SA-5), manpads (SA-7, SA-14, SA-16, SA-18, SA-24 and SA-25) and some of the oldest mobile systems (ZSU-23-4, SA-6). In addition to that there are low amounts of more modern and capable systems.

    The last attacks of Israel and the US, where both had significant loses shows how Syria is not far of achieving a no fly zone for their enemies based mostly on saturation with weaker systems plus something more capable.

    The use of some weapons is always more attractive for the media, but this is in overall terms a low technological level war.

    With an easy example, we can see the way that Syria is using to deal with hostile missiles and aircrafts, is to fire 5 SA-5 (S-200) missiles per hostile aircraft instead of 1 SA-10 (S-300) missile. Both Syria and Russia prefer this way, that is far more affordable for them.

    You cannot enforce no-fly zone with AD network no matter how good or up to date. You need an actual fighter-interceptor fleet of significant size to do so in cooperation.

    Air defence systems are extremly vulnerable without adequate support from air force, we saw that in every single conflict in last 40 years.

    Novorussia did it without fighter intercepters.

    Since when is Novorossia a no-fly zone? Fact that Ukrainians are choosing not to fly is totally different thing. And fact that Ukrainians barely had anything to fly on in 2014-2015. whole AF had about 30 aircraft that could fly in total including all types of aircraft.

    We are here talking about enemy that has real capabilities not rusting AF Ukraine has.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:37 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From what we see until now in Syria the building of the air defenses of the country is coming from long time and is being done by saturation of towed systems (SA-2, SA-3 and SA-5), manpads (SA-7, SA-14, SA-16, SA-18, SA-24 and SA-25) and some of the oldest mobile systems (ZSU-23-4, SA-6). In addition to that there are low amounts of more modern and capable systems.

    The last attacks of Israel and the US, where both had significant loses shows how Syria is not far of achieving a no fly zone for their enemies based mostly on saturation with weaker systems plus something more capable.

    The use of some weapons is always more attractive for the media, but this is in overall terms a low technological level war.

    With an easy example, we can see the way that Syria is using to deal with hostile missiles and aircrafts, is to fire 5 SA-5 (S-200) missiles per hostile aircraft instead of 1 SA-10 (S-300) missile. Both Syria and Russia prefer this way, that is far more affordable for them.

    You cannot enforce no-fly zone with AD network no matter how good or up to date. You need an actual fighter-interceptor fleet of significant size to do so in cooperation.

    Air defence systems are extremly vulnerable without adequate support from air force, we saw that in every single conflict in last 40 years.

    Novorussia did it without fighter intercepters.

    Since when is Novorossia a no-fly zone? Fact that Ukrainians are choosing not to fly is totally different thing. And fact that Ukrainians barely had anything to fly on in 2014-2015. whole AF had about 30 aircraft that could fly in total including all types of aircraft.

    We are here talking about enemy that has real capabilities not rusting AF Ukraine has.

    Syria would like this level of no-fly zone. If Ukranians are choosing not to fly is because they had unsustainable loses. Enough also for Syria.

    US and Israel have advanced aircrafts, but it also makes their capability of acceptance of own loses very low. Obviously Russia and Syria know it.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:29 pm


    Russian Officer Dies Stopping Terrorists From Entering Syrian Army Garrison

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704201052823646-bordov-killed-syria-russia/
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:07 am


    A Russian Major Is Killed in Syria — But Why Is MoD Withholding Basic Details?

    http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-major-killed-syria/ri19659

    Another Russian soldier has lost his life in Syria. According to the Russian Defense Ministry he was an instructor killed in a firefight when rebels attempted to storm a Syrian army base.

    Sputnik:

    Russian military adviser Major Sergei Bordov was killed during militants' attack on a Syrian Army garrison. He prevented the terrorists from entering the facility at the cost of his life, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement on Thursday.

    "In Syria, Russian military adviser Major Sergei Bordov was killed as a result of a militant attack. The serviceman was a member of a unit training Syrian troops," it read.

    The ministry underscored that the officer organized the defense of Syrian soldiers and prevented the terrorists' breakthrough into the inhabited area.

    "During the fight, the officer sustained critical wounds. Major Sergei Bodrov was granted a state decoration posthumously," it added.
    As usual the Russian Defense ministry presents just enough information to establish its officer died a heroic death, but nowhere enough to satisfy us.

    Here is what we're wondering:

    Which base and where?
    Was the Russian major the only casualty?
    How were militants able to approach the training facility undetected?
    Where were the Syrian guards?
    How come in an attack on a Syrian army installation it fell to a Russian officer to lead the defense?
    Either there's something we don't understand, or there is something odd about the story.


    If it fell to a Russian trainer to single-handedly save a Syrian base from a surprise enemy attack then Syrian army fighters are pretty darn incompetent.
    So maybe that's what happened. Or maybe the Russian army is weaving a tale here.

    If American experience is anything to go by, when a foreign military instructor is killed inside a friendly army base it is rarely in an attempted storming of the base from the outside. It is much more common for trainers to be killed by infiltrators who sign up for training only to strike from the inside. (Or in mortar strikes from a distance.)


    That doesn't diminish the sacrifice (if you're into that) of the trainer rendered, but it doesn't make for a quite as classically heroic story.

    Is the Russian military massaging the circumstances in which their servicemen die? I hope not, they certainly deserve better.

    The loss of major Sergei Bodrov brings Russia's fatalities in Syria so far to 31.
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    Post  auslander Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:29 pm

    He was one of ours, a local. Service is Saturday in Sevastopol, burial is Simferopol.
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    Post  franco Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:51 pm

    auslander wrote:He was one of ours, a local. Service is Saturday in Sevastopol, burial is Simferopol.

    One of the newbies?

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