The other aspect is that the Army system S-300V4 is optimised to deal with both ballistic missiles of up to 5km/s speed and also with cruise missiles. Against both types of targets the S-300V4 is rather more capable than the newer S-400.
In terms of performance against a range of targets and its speed in getting ready to intercept targets the S-300V4 would be superior to navy or air force systems... and would likely tie in better to Tor and Pantsir and Buk systems.
"The crews on duty will hardly have the time to calculate the missiles’ flight path or try to find out their nationality. As for the laymen’s illusions about the existence of ‘invisible planes’ they may confront a disappointing reality," And the Syrian army has at its disposal S-200 and Buk systems and other weapons that underwent overhaul last year.
^ I was about to post that same quote from a different source. Even though it would put us in a very scary situation, part of me would like to see just for the ego damage it would visit upon legions of obnoxious fan boys.
Anyhow, over the last few days there have been lots of hair-raising articles and reports from all the usual sources that most of us here pay attention to. It's clear now that Russia is not intimidated, not standing down. On the contrary, it is doubling and tripling down. The showdown is upon us. Figured this was going to happen. It was all too obvious. And now it is here.
Russian general go as far to tell US and its coalition ,that their new deployed Air defenses will be to make sure , Americans does not commit another "mistake" in Syria by bombing Syrian army positions where they also have servicemen.
What is interesting is how he gave the message ,to Americans that their planes will be shot down in a very polite way but very meaningful way .. So his comments cannot be taken out of context or used to portray Russia as a nation that hates America . but instead as a very reasonable country. It needs to protect its serviceman doing humanitarian work so thats the reason of the missiles. .
However Syria needs to be careful about long range massive cruise missile attacks launched from warships. Because it will be more difficult for Russia to justify sinking a warship. not impossible ,but more difficult.
in any case, Im shocked the positive responses Russia are getting about the Syrian conflict. Russia is winning the international public opinion BIG TIME.. Saw many comments of American citizens ,European Citizens ,Australian citizens ,welcoming Russia to even shut down their own nation NATO military planes if their pilots so blindly support their corrupt Government and support ISIS and Alqaeda.
The above Banner was a master piece touch.. was awesome. This could create a banners war now , with Putin images across all United States and Europe welcoming him to bomb to hell Obama and Pentagon backed terrorist.. LOL f This is very powerful folks , it will trigger a wave of awakening on society to protest and show support for Russia. Something that will send scary signals to the Pentagon and white house ,that a new major movement could be starting in support of Russia and against Obama and Pentagon illegal war in Syria.
For the next time , they need to add a Bigger very long Banner and deploy it in a major league Baseball of semi finals .. to embarrass The WHite House and Pentagon . As i said many times , the whole conflict in Syria can end overnight with peaceful and energetic activism in Support of Russia world wide.. specially US and Europe. a mass rally of few dozens in support of Russia actions in Syria , with their flag ,could turn into thousands or millions in no time. This will be even easier if American most popular people ,in Sports ,movies etc start wearing tshirts in support of Russia to bomb Obama terrorist.
Public Opinion will end the war. It ended the war in Vietnam and it ended the war in Korea of Americans and it also ended the invasion of IRAQ. albeit temporarily but it did. heck.. It was peaceful avtivism ,public opinion what ended the British Empire and forced to leave India and what ended Soviet Union. Russia government should really push heavily in promoting peaceful activism. Because once millions reach the streets , it will be impossible for Obama or Pentagon to ignore it.. and they will be isolated in their plans to continue its agression to Syria.
‘We will stop you…beat you’: US Army chief offers stark warning to potential rivals and enemies
The US Army Chief of Staff warned the enemies of the United States that “we will beat you harder than you’ve ever been beaten before.” The list of rivals and foes is predictably Russia, Iran and China. He also admitted that the US Army’s readiness to fight had been eroded recently.
The US Army Chief of Staff, Mark Milley delivered his remarks before the army’s annual meeting on Tuesday in Washington, DC, and said it was the military’s aim “to deter war but if deterrents fail we as an army, we as a nation must be prepared to fight.”
Interesting report.. Veterans Today at times does .. but now seriously at times they do good investigations and they now suggesting the Pentagon and the white house have to be looking for ways to frame Russia and make it look bad. this goes back to what i what saying.. Public Opinion will end this war , or could also spark it.
So this is why Russia needs to be very careful in the use of words in Public Media. Veterans Today is even raising the possibility of a civilian plane being camouflage as military one and provoking Russia to shot it down.
So US and its coalition are looking for more serious ways to frame Russia in a negative way and ideally provoke them to kill American citizens in order to demonize Russia in the eyes of American citizens and European ones. and help CLinton campaign. So another Malasyan plane incident is possible ,with a civilian plane being forced to fly exactly over Russia military base and ignore Russia calls.
or it could be a major incident like a chemical attack or nuclear attack and blamed on Russia.
KoTeMoRe wrote:Has any one seen Maria Zaharova going Allahu Akbar on a Swedish Journalist today. Looked like she was going full jihad on that one.
Tear in the eyes of the tiger.
She was probably upset that the Swedish journalist was trying to ask a question while simultaneously gargling 'lutefisk' *cough, cough* I don't know if I could respect a person who's breath smells like Clorox bleach....err....Lye!
^^ They absolutely would kill several hundred innocent people and frame Russia for it if they thought it could work. Russia should be on guard for that sort of thing.
The Mirage was the one that sunk the Georgian gunship outside Poti August 2008
On the evening of 10 August a naval skirmish between Russian and Georgian forces took place. The Russian Nanuchka III class corvette Mirazh (Mirage) probably sank one Georgian patrol cutter with two Malakhit (SS-N-9) anti-ship missiles. This was the Russian Navy's first real sea battle since 1945. The Russians claimed that Georgian ships had violated the security zone of the Black Sea Fleet and therefore the action was in self-defense in accordance with international law. Following the action, the remaining Georgian ships withdrew to a nearby harbour.
Khepesh wrote:Closer and closer.. Lifenews had published a slightly simplistic but clear picture of Russian and American assets in the region and capabilities. Nothing new to this forum of course. However the important part is that it says that our forces may actually be rather exposed in a scenario involving a no fly zone and of America launching mass wave of cruise missiles at Assad forces. Article states that it is unlikely that any American aircraft will get involved in breaking no fly zone in any major way as they are very vulnerable to Russian and Syrian AD capabilities, and this also goes for any Turkish incursions, which it says are also very unlikely, not least because of frosty relations with Washington. The article sees a scenario where America could launch mass cruise missile strike, and says about the 415 missiles launched at Iraq in 1998 during operation "Desert Fox", but not all 415 were launched at the same time of course. Anyway, Americans can launch substantial volleys of missiles at one time. The issue is does Russia then take these missiles down or let them fly and do huge damage to SAA. What happens when first American cruise missile is taken down either from Russian warship or ground battery, war? And even if not war straight away, to try to take down the amount of missiles that America is capable of launching will deplete stocks of S-300 missiles in theatre, possibly even completely expend all of them. If so, even if WWIII has not occured, the AA defence capability is severely depleted, at least until resupply from Russia, and VKS in Syria are insufficient to deal with a potential major American air strike to follow up from the missile strikes. Of course there may never be a no fly zone and Americans never launch mass cruise missile attack on SAA, but given their instability and previous record of acting in the most irresponsible manner, it cannot be ruled out that they will launch such an attack, no fly zone or not. If they just launch one small volley, what will be the responce? if it comes from American missile cruisers or submarines in Mediterranean, then Russian squadron will need to react as the target, while it can be guessed at, will not be known for sure and what if it is pre-emptive strike, now will captain of Moskva know for certain that American cruise missile is not for him or that at the same time America has pressed button and hell is breaking out. He cannot know at that precise moment, he cannot wait for orders, for confirmation that American ICBMs are not in the air, he must react. We are potentially seconds from midnight. It is not a real analogy to the present situation, but for those who have not seen it, I recomend watching "The Bedford Incident" https://life.ru/t/наука/910504/zakryt_niebo_sirii_zashchita_nashikh_intieriesov_ili_kliuch_k_trietiei_mirovoi
Russia so far in the Syrian Theater possesses the following air defense missile batteries: S-400 + BUK-M2E + Pantsir-S2's & S1's at Khmeimim Air Base; S-300F + OSA-MA on the Moskva docked off the coast of Latakia; S-300V4 + (supposedly Tor ) at the naval base in Tartus. Are each of these SAM batteries integrated into one another to form a IADS ? Or does each of these batteries plus their supporting system operate independently? (The S-400 and probably the V4 does possess the capability to integrate with the S-300 versions to form a network.)
Are these Russian systems integrated with Syria's own Air Defense system of Pantsir E,BUK's ,KUBs, S-125 2M and S-200's? (They were recently overhauled by Russians in December last year.)
In the event of a crisis, would these Air Defense systems be able to identify friendly aircraft patrolling the skies for adversaries from incoming munitions and enemy aircraft? I recall reading that the Low to medium frequency X bands that these systems uses cannot clearly differentiate among different aircraft types? What would prevent fratricide?
Would the Su-30's -35S be able to network with the Air Defense network and share data? Or would they be grounded?
Russia so far in the Syrian Theater possesses the following air defense missile batteries: S-400 + BUK-M2E + Pantsir-S2's & S1's at Khmeimim Air Base; S-300F + OSA-MA on the Moskva docked off the coast of Latakia; S-300V4 + (supposedly Tor ) at the naval base in Tartus. Are each of these SAM batteries integrated into one another to form a IADS ? Or does each of these batteries plus their supporting system operate independently? (The S-400 and probably the V4 does possess the capability to integrate with the S-300 versions to form a network.)
Are these Russian systems integrated with Syria's own Air Defense system of Pantsir E,BUK's ,KUBs, S-125 2M and S-200's? (They were recently overhauled by Russians in December last year.)
In the event of a crisis, would these Air Defense systems be able to identify friendly aircraft patrolling the skies for adversaries from incoming munitions and enemy aircraft? I recall reading that the Low to medium frequency X bands that these systems uses cannot clearly differentiate among different aircraft types? What would prevent fratricide?
Would the Su-30's -35S be able to network with the Air Defense network and share data? Or would they be grounded?
Your responses are welcomed
As I cannot answer technical questions on precise use in Syria of AD capabilities without already having the answers in my head, then I would probably embarrass myself in front of those here more expert than me on anything to do with the air.
But in generalities, it is already stated that Russian AD assets are for the defence of Russian bases, not part of Syrian AD, tho it must be presumed that there is integration at least at command level and whose radar covers what areas, what overlap and who has responsibility to act in "grey areas", say on SAA positions that are very close to Russian bases. The main issue I was thinking of in my post was not so much about potential enemy aircraft, but vollies of cruise missiles. If they are used they cannot be spoken to on radio and asked about intentions, all that can be done is let them go to their target or shoot them down. While point of origin of missile could be determined, and any cruise missiles fired against Syria would be American anyway, their targets cannot be known, and that is the problem, and it is why any American cruise missiles need to be shot down. They cannot of course be allowed to hit our bases, but even if they are targeted at Syrian bases, to let them hit would allow Assad's forces to be potentially very badly damaged and negate Russian presence in Syria. Missiles can come from Persian Gulf, Iraq and Med. Those from Med will be initially responsibility of Navy, so this is where there is enormous pressure, despite what orders he already has, on head of admiral in Moskva, and even on individual ships captains. They detect missile and cannot know what it's target is, what to do. If the orders are to not respond to American cruise missiles coming overhead, then possibility of Russian ship or airbase being hit, then probably WWIII, and I cannnot think of any other outcome if, for instance, Moskva was hit and sunk, or airbase hit with multiple casualties directly due to Americans. However, if one or more American missiles are shot down, lots of red faces, bulging veins and screaming from Washington, but not a casus beli for something as big as WWIII, it would be hoped.
storm333 wrote:Would the Su-30's -35S be able to network with the Air Defense network and share data? Or would they be grounded?
Su-30SM, Su-34 and Su-35 are designed to work networked inside IADS, so I don't see any problem for them to work with modern S-300V4, S-400, Pantsir-S1 and Tor-M2 as they are networked in local IADS through their command posts and brigade command posts, which also integrte inside their IADS ground based ELINT and ECM complexes in Syria.
An important factor to consider is that a cruise missile is like a manned aircraft operating on a pre programmed autopilot.
Detecting it and tracking it for a few seconds will not tell you anything about its intended target, so you pretty much would have to destroy them all as any one of them could target anything in the area.
Often flight paths are designed to follow dead ground... ie between mountains where radar coverage is poor, and the flight path can turn back on itself or loop back to come from an unexpected direction to a target.
Basically if you detect one that is not yours you had better shoot it down when you can rather than wait and hope it is not aimed at anything of value you want to protect.
And Su-35s should be able to provide rather better low level radar coverage to make the defence against cruise missile attack better.
In fact an Su-35 armed with R-73s and R-27ER & ET and R-77 would be ideal for shooting down cruise missiles from extended ranges...
US airforce Painting their F-18 planes in Syria in the same way , that Russia their Su-34..
This is obviously a plan to bomb hundreds of civilians and later blame it on Russia.
For sure it will be coordinated with Alqaeda , they will bomb a Rebel controlled zone ,and rebels will force hundreds of civilians to go to a zone in Aleppo. later this coordinates given to NATO.. then Rebels will have cameras ready running filming the bombing of the "Russian planes" on their positions, and they will use this incident to Demonize Russia worldwide and try to earn some level of support in US against using force against Russia.
I forgot who i was having a discussion before.. telling him ,how American Government with Israel are masters of deception. That they are not fools or "idiots" as people think. They fully understand what they doing. They hire hundreds of Experts in psicoligical warfare , Magicians, Military experts , actors.. whatever they need to do any job.
The so called "failure" in US wars in middle east, is simple done intentionally . Because the more conflict last.. the more profits for the US defense industry and the more the profits for US senators and congress people ,who are financed by the Military Industrial lobbies. So is a round business , They take the money from American Tax dollars to buy weapons ,and the US military and CIA helps the terrorist to continue creating chaos. The money in the end goes from American citizens pockets, to the pockets of US defense industry , like Boeing ,Raytheon and the Politicians who support those conflict ,sending drones or American military get a commision for their help.. So is Win /WIN for US politicians and US defense Industry. and major lose for Americans citizens ,that their hard earned dollars is used to create Millionaires s from violence and conflicts they provoke.
All this deception goes all the way to hiring actors and special effects technicians, with cameras at the right place in the right time. So the Pentagon is planning a false Flag in Syria ,where Russia will be blamed. and many civilians or even NATO servicemen will be bombed and blamed on Syria and or Russia. So this is why im NOT remotely surprised about the malasyan plane being shot down exactly over the warzone in Ukraine. It was not a coincidence but a planned false flag to frame Russia for the incident and blame them for shooting down the plane.
So we are in Oct 8.. so withing few days ,or just 1,2 or 3 more weeks ,this is before US elections ,to try to Boost Hillary support ,don't be surprising if a major incident happens where many civilians killed in Ukraine or Syria and NATO stage everything to blame Russia for it. It could be a Civilian Ship navigating near Syria coast. or the classic Malasyan airliner or simply NATO to bomb civilians in Aleppo and later rigged cameras with NATO painted planes , blame it on Russia.
October 8 at about 11.00 am in the province of Hama # (Syrian Arab Republic), the Russian transport helicopter Mi-8, to deliver humanitarian aid, accompanied by officers of the Russian Center for Reconciliation of the warring parties, under fire from militants ISIS portable air defense systems (MANPADS). According to information from the Russian Center for Reconciliation of the warring sides in the Syrian Arab Republic. Through typed altitude, early detection and launching crew skill in maneuvering the car, getting in helicopter missile avoided. None of the helicopter were in Russian military was not injured. According to information received by the Russian Center for Reconciliation, ISIS militants from Iraq on October 6 this year two MANPADS delivered. Complexes transferred for air cover armed gangs in the suburbs of Hama, who are attempting to take control of the road to Aleppo and # forge actions of government troops.
Last edited by AK-Rex on Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
KoTeMoRe wrote:Only a retard would try a false flag with a plane that looks or sizes nothing like the 34. Oh wait...
Nah, that's just Aggressor squadron, they always have ''hostile'' paintjobs
During the Kosovo NATO gang rape of Serbia in 1999, NATO did attack an Albanian refugee column. The refugees were yelling that the Serbs bombed them. Forget about jet profiles and other technical BS. Nobody will care about the details. All that will matter is the paint job and how many witnesses recall it.
Uncle Scumbag will make sure that his false flag jets get real nice and low to the ground for everyone to see the paint job.
The apparent recent "blinking" about bombing the SAA came suspiciously fast. I am quite sure Uncle Scumbag is planning false flag frame up jobs at a frenzied pace. The war is on all fronts, including psychological ones.
KoTeMoRe wrote:Only a retard would try a false flag with a plane that looks or sizes nothing like the 34. Oh wait...
How low is your imagination..
The plane in the picture ,flying at 5km altitude ,with the correct modifications and similar paint ,taken from the right angle from below on video camera.. will look just like a Russian plane bombing civilians. That for sure Alqaeda can group in the many thousands in an hospital and later kill them themselves and blame Russia for it. Using the painted NATO planes as Russia ones.
The real question should be why is NATO painting their planes F-18 ,like the SU-34 AND SU-35 sukhoi in Syria? They will not bother to do such suspicious thing ,unless they had criminal intentions with those planes.
Im repeating this again.. they are planning an false flag with people killed and later blamed on Russia. Later dont say , you were not told about this. NATO ,Israel and its dictators allies, needs to help boost Hillary Clinton Campaign before elections next month ,SO Trump dont wins ,and the best way to do that will be o frame/stage a show where it appears Russia bombing american military or at least bombing an hospital with thousands of civilians women and children. This is to damage Russia credibility in the world and stop the Syrian army from advancing in aleppo.
Just remember that when the Rebels in Ukraine were winning, and had encircled 8,000 ukrainian army troops with lots of tanks and equipment , by Luck to Ukraine ,a civilian plane crashed in Rebels zones , demanding them to stop their offensive. How naive are the people in this forum.. so disappointing. This is not rocket science dude. is just 101 deception tactics to manipulate and shape public opinion against Russia.
US have a very long record of staging false flags.To get people opinion on their side, from 9/11 WTC to Malasyan plane. In the Cuban Crisis ,the CIA suggested Kennedy to send a civilian plane to Cuba full of civilians ,with a bomb inside and invade its airspace and later blow it up and blame Cuba for it. a plan that kennedy rejected and fired the CIA officer from his position .This will have been the perfect pretext with American people for declaring war against Cuba and invading it with NATO. All western wars are always done first with manipulating their people opinion,to justify them.
Trump winning the elections probably will change nothing in Syria.. because Trump will never be allowed to be president unless he agree with a policy dictated to him by the US military industry and wallstreet. But still trump pose a threat to Hillary and Obama ,and many other politicians because could investigate them and send them to jail.
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So his
but now seriously
This is not rocket science dude. is just 101 deception tactics to manipulate and shape public opinion against Russia.