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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #9

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    SturmGuard


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    Post  SturmGuard Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:58 pm

    FFS, permaban the mongrel, he has metastasised and talks to himself, drowning every relevant post or point in the sea of his obvious, mindless trolling.

    Not for me, I log in and he is gone, but do it for the thread and site health, and to make it easier for the non-members.


    Common sense, show some of it.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:@Solncepek

    You have been repeatedly warned that this is an English language forum and that any posts in any other languages need translations into English.

    You get a 4 day ban.

    If you do it again then the ban will be a month or possibly permanent.

    If you have any problems with this please feel free to send me a private message.

    I do not know, but I assume it was Russian language. It is not too much?

    I mean... I hate the only English rule in many forums. I'm a little surprised about to see it here and more surprised still if it would be applied against Russian language.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:02 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:@Solncepek

    You have been repeatedly warned that this is an English language forum and that any posts in any other languages need translations into English.

    You get a 4 day ban.

    If you do it again then the ban will be a month or possibly permanent.

    If you have any problems with this please feel free to send me a private message.

    I do not know, but I assume it was Russian language. It is not too much?

    I mean... I hate the only English rule in many forums. I'm a little surprised about to see it here and more surprised still if it would be applied against Russian language.
    I think the objective of a forum like this is to appeal to as many people as possible in a common language, without having to constantly translate stuff they don't understand. Many here do not speak Russian. A poster should translate the object once instead of many having to repeat the process.

    The problem with Solncepek was that this time he quickly posted twice in Russian on this, an English language forum. If at the same time he gave a version in English I doubt there would have been the same issue, I certainly wouldn't have WTF'd it.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:34 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:@Solncepek

    You have been repeatedly warned that this is an English language forum and that any posts in any other languages need translations into English.

    You get a 4 day ban.

    If you do it again then the ban will be a month or possibly permanent.

    If you have any problems with this please feel free to send me a private message.

    I do not know, but I assume it was Russian language. It is not too much?

    I mean... I hate the only English rule in many forums. I'm a little surprised about to see it here and more surprised still if it would be applied against Russian language.

    I think the objective of a forum like this is to appeal to as many people as possible in a common language, without having to constantly translate stuff they don't understand. Many here do not speak Russian. A poster should translate the object once instead of many having to repeat the process.

    The problem with Solncepek was that this time he quickly posted twice in Russian on this, an English language forum. If at the same time he gave a version in English I doubt there would have been the same issue, I certainly wouldn't have WTF'd it.

    The alone people that has troubles with constantly translating stuff is habitually the people that only speaks English. They are who habitually try to impulse the only English rule and who defend it. For other people like me, that does an effort to use English, being not our first nor even our second language, there is not a trouble with the use of other languages, even if we understand not a word. Translating stuff is something familiar for many people. I even like to see Russian articles in their own language, because I can translate them one way or another, and they add many times information that is not available in English language. Some times I quote them translated and in its original language, if someone prefers to read it in Russian.

    This only English rule imposed this way over other people is not comfortable to me. I'm from a country that suffered language imposition by the power, and I dislike it.

    And in a forum like this, which is in English language but where the Russian people should feel in its home, to see the Russian language banned sounds weird, very weird.

    But well I'm not who write the rules here, and I pretend not to do it.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:28 pm

    I do not know, but I assume it was Russian language. It is not too much?

    There are no guidelines on ban periods.

    This is not the first time Solncepek has posted in Russian without english translation and he has been warned several times before for doing so.

    Perhaps this time he will listen.

    I mean... I hate the only English rule in many forums. I'm a little surprised about to see it here and more surprised still if it would be applied against Russian language.

    This is an english language forum. It is stated in the rules that if any non english language is used a translation even if it is an outline of points of what the non english text is saying must be presented.

    Vlad created this forum and decided on the rules.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:31 pm

    And in a forum like this, which is in English language but where the Russian people should feel in its home, to see the Russian language banned sounds weird, very weird.

    No languages are banned on this forum.

    My understanding regarding my chats to Vlad about the purpose of this forum is to offer information and information sharing about Russia to a western audience that bypasses the coloured lenses of the western media.

    There might be speakers of many languages here but English is the forum language and so it must be included for all here to understand.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:36 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:Russia hardly cares about Aleppo. I sense the Russians are only keen on maintaining order and unified, territorial integrity in Latakia and Tartous (done). Then it's important for them to keep Homs and Damascus cities in relative order (mostly achieved). Also for Russia a route from the coast all the way to Palmyra is important for future pipeline politics (mostly achieved too).

    Aleppo, Raqqa and Deir Ezor is Iran's problem, with their whole Shia axis politics at risk.

    Indeed, the primary objectives of the Russian intervention have been achieved.
    But that does not mean that the secondary objectives will be neglected.
    At the moment, the focal point of the conflict is Aleppo. The terrorists and their backers are throwing everything at it.
    I think we will see some more bloody battles in the next few days.

    Guys check the evolution of Aleppo since 2012. In 2013 the city was all but lost. The current situation was a painstaking effort frop Iran, Russia and whatever is left of the SAA to get there. The Reality is that this is still A LOT better than what it was back in August 2015. May I recall you all that the word was that the beardies were preparing to march on Latakia.

    This is going to gradually deteriorate the standing of JAF in North Syria. After tomorrow we'll know more about what's going on. IF the meeting Erdross, VVP gives any clue, then we'll see a shift in how the Russians do this. Personally given how the Russians started bombing IDLIB heavily, it doesn't bode well for Erdoshit and his pals.
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    Post  eehnie Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:27 am

    GarryB wrote:
    And in a forum like this, which is in English language but where the Russian people should feel in its home, to see the Russian language banned sounds weird, very weird.

    No languages are banned on this forum.

    My understanding regarding my chats to Vlad about the purpose of this forum is to offer information and information sharing about Russia to a western audience that bypasses the coloured lenses of the western media.

    There might be speakers of many languages here but English is the forum language and so it must be included for all here to understand.

    I understand the point, and I agree. I would not be able to write a word in Russian, but at same time, I see interesting things from sources in Russian using translators. You guys, the only English speakers, tend to feel a need to understand every word that everyone says, and is not always possible.

    Would not be the goal better achieved with a more relaxed convivence between the English and the Russian? Surely Vlad would be right giving to his own language some room here, surely it would encourage to more Russians to take part. Surely not all the people is able to translate well their words to English, but have interesting things to say, that deserve to be translated. The presence of Russian speakers here opens the door to Russian sources, where maybe interesting to use translators.

    When I come to this forum, I feel Im coming to the home of Russian people, and I was surprised about to see someone banned by speaking its own language in a forum where Russian people should be locals, while Basques, and all the rest, including the people from the only English countries should be the foreign visitants.

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:32 am

    eehnie wrote:This only English rule imposed this way over other people is not comfortable to me. I'm from a country that suffered language imposition by the power, and I dislike it.

    And in a forum like this, which is in English language but where the Russian people should feel in its home, to see the Russian language banned sounds weird, very weird.

    But well I'm not who write the rules here, and I pretend not to do it.

    Because this forum is designed for non-Russian-speaking audiences, for example someone who like Russia but cannot speak/read/write Russian.

    A lot of members in this forum, including me, cannot read Russian and have to rely on GG Translate. So, sincerely, I have to side with Garry.
    calm
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    Post  calm Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:44 am

    Минобороны России ‏@mod_russia 27m27 minutes ago
    #SYRIA 6 Tu-22M3 bombers took off from Russian territory, carried out concentrated strike on #ISIS objects near al-Sukhnah and Arak

    Минобороны России ‏@mod_russia 28m28 minutes ago
    #SYRIA Command and control centre as well as a large field camp of insurgents located near al-Sukhnah were destroyed

    Минобороны России ‏@mod_russia 27m27 minutes ago
    #SYRIA Control centres and terrorists' concentrations, ammo storage, 3 IFVs, 12 CUVs with weapons were eliminated near Palmyra and Arak

    Минобороны России ‏@mod_russia 27m27 minutes ago
    #SYRIA All Russian aircraft have returned to the airfield after accomplishing the combat task

    https://twitter.com/mod_russia
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    Post  VladimirSahin Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:49 am

    Well the situation in Aleppo is not as bad as one thinks, the rebels took the artillery base and opened the siege by 1-2 Kilometers. This corridor is still under fire control, so essentially they are still under siege. What the SAA has to worry about now is the 3000 complexes. 1070 apartment projects are also in rebel hands from what I've read. The rebels were successful because; they were highly motivated, large amount of forces at their disposal, as well as exploiting weak defenses with VBIEDs. The SAA is working with what they have, and combat situations can go bad in just a few minutes.

    There are two flaws with the SAAs defense in this battle:

    1. No minefields, or explosives set up before or during the battle
    2. SAA's lack of manpower

    SAA's goals at the moment must be to hold a defensive position while targeting militants, and devising a counter attack. I personally hope that in SW Aleppo they push forward from the cement factory and encircle the base, and also push forward through the 1070 apartment projects straight from the 3000 complexes. (Check the SW Aleppo map if you don't get what places I'm mentioning.)
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:27 am

    VladimirSahin wrote:Well the situation in Aleppo is not as bad as one thinks, the rebels took the artillery base and opened the siege by 1-2 Kilometers. This corridor is still under fire control, so essentially they are still under siege. What the SAA has to worry about now is the 3000 complexes. 1070 apartment projects are also in rebel hands from what I've read. The rebels were successful because; they were highly motivated, large amount of forces at their disposal, as well as exploiting weak defenses with VBIEDs. The SAA is working with what they have, and combat situations can go bad in just a few minutes.

    There are two flaws with the SAAs defense in this battle:

    1. No minefields, or explosives set up before or during the battle
    2. SAA's lack of manpower

    SAA's goals at the moment must be to hold a defensive position while targeting militants, and devising a counter attack. I personally hope that in SW Aleppo they push forward from the cement factory and encircle the base, and also push forward through the 1070 apartment projects straight from the 3000 complexes. (Check the SW Aleppo map if you don't get what places I'm mentioning.)

    1070 is divided and the Ramuseh roundabout is not under fire control. Sadegh neighbourhood is and Amiriah is, the real hole for the beardies is about 1km wide. Wich is enough. Clearly there's not enough people for the aleppo perimetre.
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    Post  calm Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:04 am

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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:39 am

    May be a huge cooperative-divisionary blow near Palmira in the future ?

    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-long-range-bombers-devastate-isis-eastern-syria/

    The official page of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation reported that six TU-22M3 long-range bombers took off from Russia and carried out concentrated strikes with high-explosive fragmentation munitions around Al-Sakhnah and Arak villages east of Palmyra.

    A command and control center as well as a large field camp that housed many ISIL terrorists were reportedly destroyed by the intense strikes. Notably, three infantry combat vehicles, 12 off-roaders with large-caliber machine guns, and many ISIS fighters were neutralized in the aerial operation.

    This comes at a time when reports increasingly propose that the Syrian Army is massing to launch a huge offensive to capture the oil-ridden town of Sakhnah and lift the siege off the resilient city of Deir El-Zor.
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    Post  VladimirSahin Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:02 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Well the situation in Aleppo is not as bad as one thinks, the rebels took the artillery base and opened the siege by 1-2 Kilometers. This corridor is still under fire control, so essentially they are still under siege. What the SAA has to worry about now is the 3000 complexes. 1070 apartment projects are also in rebel hands from what I've read. The rebels were successful because; they were highly motivated, large amount of forces at their disposal, as well as exploiting weak defenses with VBIEDs. The SAA is working with what they have, and combat situations can go bad in just a few minutes.

    There are two flaws with the SAAs defense in this battle:

    1. No minefields, or explosives set up before or during the battle
    2. SAA's lack of manpower

    SAA's goals at the moment must be to hold a defensive position while targeting militants, and devising a counter attack. I personally hope that in SW Aleppo they push forward from the cement factory and encircle the base, and also push forward through the 1070 apartment projects straight from the 3000 complexes. (Check the SW Aleppo map if you don't get what places I'm mentioning.)

    1070 is divided and the Ramuseh roundabout is not under fire control. Sadegh neighbourhood is and Amiriah is, the real hole for the beardies is about 1km wide. Wich is enough. Clearly there's not enough people for the aleppo perimetre.

    I think you may be right about 1070, how ever I'm assuming for the worse. What do you think the SAA will do now? I think they'll be defensive for a while.
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    Post  Resistance Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:32 pm

    Why don't Russia supply 2000 ASVK sniper rifles to SAA? Even if jihadists have 6000 men, they would be devastated by 2000 ASVK rifles which can shoot more than 1000 meters. In comparison, AK-47 used by jihadists shoot no more than 200 meters.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:12 pm

    hi i was wondering if anyone had an update on the number and what aircraft Russia is currently using in Syria, I know there 4x Su-30 and 4x Su-35, but not sure the numbers on the rest of the aircraft.

    And i know this highly doubtful but anyone know the same details for SAAF?

    I am guessing that they probably have anything between 50-65% of what they had prewar, although some aircraft numbers might be slightly higher due to Russia giving a helping hand with repairs and Iran donating a handful of Su-22. So what i think they currently have is as follows:

    Mig-29 x24
    Su-24 x16
    Mig-23 x50 (all variants)
    Mig-21 x70 (not including trainers and recce)
    Su-22 x30 (including Iran's donation)
    Mig-25 x6
    L-39 18 (attack version)
    Mi-24 x 16
    Mi-2 x 8
    Mi-8 x 40
    Gazelle x 12

    So the Mig-21 and Mig-23 is the mainstay of the SAAF, and have been true saviours and workhorses for them. These numbers for all aircraft would no doubt be much lower if it wasnt for Russia giving a helping hand with repairs. The only thing they might struggle with in relation to repairs would be the Gazelle as its unlikely they would be getting any spares from France however these are pretty basic and reliable heli's. The Mig-25 number is pretty generous as i would imagine these would have been forgotten about due to the cost of running them, i think 6 might still be in reasonable shape but probably arent being used. The L-39 are cheap to run and maintain and good enough for ground based attacks, no doubt Russia is cannibalising its L-39's coming out of service to give parts to Syria. And Mig-21 trainers and recce will no doubt have been used for spares to the armed versions going. Am I being too generous with the numbers? like i said without Russian help i think these numbers would be much lower.

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:02 pm


    VKS heavies going holly-jolly over Palmyra yesterday:

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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    VKS heavies going holly-jolly over Palmyra yesterday:



    nice Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    it seems the Tu-22M3 are being quite often now, Tu-160 and Tu-95 it seems are no longer being used in Syria. The Tu-95 took part in the initial mass wave of bombers a few months ago when all three aircraft went on missions on the same day. I suppose the Tu-22-M3 can carry more munitions than the Tu-95 so maybe thats the reason and more modern. It pretty crazy to think that the Tu-160 and the Tu-95 had its first combat use in November 2015, despite their age, especially the Tu-95 it only took 60 years for this aircraft to be finally used in combat, despite various conflicts lol. (although the ones in service were built in the 80's the initial introduction dates back to 1956)
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    Post  crod Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    VKS heavies going holly-jolly over Palmyra yesterday:


    Nice vid of the beautiful bird.

    q) are they smart or dumb munitions that are deployed

    q) cost of sending that bird over drone strikes?

    q) what are the munitions, it was hard to tell if the raid was a success or not

    cheers, c
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:07 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    VKS heavies going holly-jolly over Palmyra yesterday:

    .....................
    nice Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

    it seems the Tu-22M3 are being quite often now, Tu-160 and Tu-95 it seems are no longer being used in Syria. The Tu-95 took part in the initial mass wave of bombers a few months ago when all three aircraft went on missions on the same day. I suppose the Tu-22-M3 can carry more munitions than the Tu-95 so maybe thats the reason and more modern. It pretty crazy to think that the Tu-160 and the Tu-95 had its first combat use in November 2015, despite their age, especially the Tu-95 it only took 60 years for this aircraft to be finally used in combat, despite various conflicts lol. (although the ones in service were built in the 80's the initial introduction dates back to 1956)

    Of those three models only Tu-22 can carry standard bombs. Tu-160 carries only cruise missiles (and only fancy ones at that). Maybe new M2 version will be different. Tu-95 could carry standard bombs initially but they were all converted to strictly cruise missiles carriers. That only leaves Tu-22 for this little party.

    Tu-160 and Tu-95 were used in that big operation in the beginning because back then ISIS still had large hideouts, bunkers and other juicy targets that made sense for cruise missiles to be used on them. But these days Tu-22 and dumb bombs are more than enough.

    crod wrote:[........

    Nice vid of the beautiful bird.

    q) are they smart or dumb munitions that are deployed

    q) cost of sending that bird over drone strikes?

    q) what are the munitions, it was hard to tell if the raid was a success or not

    cheers, c

    1) Dumb bombs all of them definitely. They all look like standard FAB-250s to me but I think that white bomb from beginning of the clip is something different. Someone more knowledgeable might look into it.

    2) Bang for buck I think cost is more or less the same. But Russia still has very few strike drones and even if it had more it would go with bombers because this is golden opportunity to use these babies in actual war. Prior to this they were sitting in hangars or just doing practice runs for decades.

    3) Most likely FAB-250.  Carpet bombing, whatever was near the blast is dead, shrapnels, air blast, the works. Ignore the crosshairs on video, those videos are from observation drones, not targeting camera.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:34 am

    VladimirSahin wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:Well the situation in Aleppo is not as bad as one thinks, the rebels took the artillery base and opened the siege by 1-2 Kilometers. This corridor is still under fire control, so essentially they are still under siege. What the SAA has to worry about now is the 3000 complexes. 1070 apartment projects are also in rebel hands from what I've read. The rebels were successful because; they were highly motivated, large amount of forces at their disposal, as well as exploiting weak defenses with VBIEDs. The SAA is working with what they have, and combat situations can go bad in just a few minutes.

    There are two flaws with the SAAs defense in this battle:

    1. No minefields, or explosives set up before or during the battle
    2. SAA's lack of manpower

    SAA's goals at the moment must be to hold a defensive position while targeting militants, and devising a counter attack. I personally hope that in SW Aleppo they push forward from the cement factory and encircle the base, and also push forward through the 1070 apartment projects straight from the 3000 complexes. (Check the SW Aleppo map if you don't get what places I'm mentioning.)

    1070 is divided and the Ramuseh roundabout is not under fire control. Sadegh neighbourhood is and Amiriah is, the real hole for the beardies is about 1km wide. Wich is enough. Clearly there's not enough people for the aleppo perimetre.

    I think you may be right about 1070, how ever I'm assuming for the worse. What do you think the SAA will do now? I think they'll be defensive for a while.


    I think reorg the area, mine the hell out of it, make them go out for demining, flatten the area in Ramouseh, if possible combine it with a lot of APERS/APAM scattering and then move up at least three to four defensive points. Going into the offensive should happen in late August.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:10 am

    Tidying up the loose ends. Safe to say that they will be there for a long time to come.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has submitted an agreement with Damascus on the deployment of a Russian air force group in Syria for ratification by the lower house of parliament, an entry in the official database of the State Duma confirmed Tuesday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – On July 29, the Russian cabinet approved the accord on the deployment of the Russian air force group in Syria, and submitted to Putin for its further referral to the lower house of parliament for approval, according to a legislative act published on the official portal for legal information.

    It is noted in the text that the Hmeymim air facility in Syria, its infrastructure and territory are granted to Russia free of charge. The agreement was signed in Damascus on August 26, 2015.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:39 am

    JohninMK wrote:Tidying up the loose ends. Safe to say that they will be there for a long time to come.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has submitted an agreement with Damascus on the deployment of a Russian air force group in Syria for ratification by the lower house of parliament, an entry in the official database of the State Duma confirmed Tuesday.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – On July 29, the Russian cabinet approved the accord on the deployment of the Russian air force group in Syria, and submitted to Putin for its further referral to the lower house of parliament for approval, according to a legislative act published on the official portal for legal information.

    It is noted in the text that the Hmeymim air facility in Syria, its infrastructure and territory are granted to Russia free of charge. The agreement was signed in Damascus on August 26, 2015.

    As it stands, they can even send a similar corps as in Ukraine, for the front in Aleppo that thing would have been a saviour.
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:44 am

    Somewhere at the Aleppo corridor. It seems like SAA and Russia are making sure that no jihadist can move unscathed.

    https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/russian-air-force-shows-no-mercy-jihadists-southern-aleppo/?utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=push&utm_campaign=push%20notifications&utm_content=English

    The Russian Air Force launched a series of non-stop airstrikes over the southern sector of Aleppo City on Tuesday morning, targeting the jihadist rebel defenses at the Al-Ramouseh and Al-‘Amariyah districts.

    According to a military source in Aleppo City, the Russian Air Force fired 3 ballistic missiles at the Artillery Academy, marking the first time that the latter has attacked this military installation since it fell last week.

    These Russian airstrikes over southern Aleppo were conducted in conjunction with the Syrian Arab Army’s (SAA) missile assault against Jaysh Al-Fateh (Army of Conquest).

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