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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:10 am

    The alligators are even more impressive than in static display...
    NationalRus
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    Post  NationalRus Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:13 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    ultron wrote:Why don't Russia give Syria the MiG-29M2 and Yak-130 Syria paid for before 2011? Those are all built so what's the point of withholding them?

    Because the Russian Defense industry incompetence ,mixed with the poor state of Russian military industry. that never gets any order of its clients in time. waiting more than 10 years to deliver migs 29SM that Syria paid ,is like a world record in poor service.  Russia incompetence on its military industry is part of the problem ,that allows the west to take a lot of sales away from Russia. Because Americans provide an excellent service to any military weapon they sale,Fast delivery and Russia not. Russia inexperience with Capitalism is probably one of the reason they suck so much in service.


    only partly true russia manages very good by now to deliver on time and is actually including china the most reliable arms supplier of modern weaponry in the world, but yes problems like that existed and i called them out years and years back but even i have to admit that the situation with schoigu improved a lot, the military industrial complex is efficient as never before but problems remain here and there.
    the deliveries to syria are obviously of political nature, half a year ago there was not even a clarity if syria as a state would survive much more longer, and there is no reason to deliver high-tech military equipment in to a collapsing state.
    and before any delivery syria still has too prove that they can maintain the equipment delivered to them its in our interest too now that it gets not wasted and not falls in to the wrong hands then lets not fool ourselfs syria has no independent say in that matter anymore we call the shots what they get and what they DO now.

    also no reason to blame russian HQ for syrian airforce failures, we work in cooperation but independently they dont need to ask us permission to make a bombing run and fail while doing so
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:18 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    You serious? What is T-90 to any other nation and Su-30 series to any nation? Stop talking out of your ass troll.

    if Russia Government did its job well ,it will have no need to be in Syria at all.. and will have provided its Syrian ally with the equipment its need to defend itself. from any potential war with its neighbors. Syria T-72 tanks not even had night vision. And Migs-29 of Syria were very outdated too. it was only now that Russia joined the war , not before Syria lost 70% of its territory ,that began to upgrade its mig-29 planes.  Rolling Eyes

    again Russia if they armed and trained Syria military well since the war began in 2011 or earlier,it will NOT had the need today to be in Syria today with its own equipment ,defending
    its ally. Because Syria will have been better armed and trained . Russia failed to arm Syria on time, and now it have to be stuck in that conflict. Something as basic as updated T-72s ,Migs-29, and BMP vehicles and provide Syrian army with Bullet proof vest , nothing too hard to do ,could have helped Syria to do much better. and be in a much better position today. and saved many lives.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:34 am

    And you think MiG-29's and Yak-130's would do that? No. Roll right now calls for the very equipment they got.

    If Syria ordered T-72B3/M upgrades, newer IFV and subsystems, that would have helped. Maybe upgraded artillery, helicopters, and UAVs too.

    Russia had no problems in delivery or such with Algeria. And Algeria is dealing quite well against terrotists.
    NationalRus
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    Post  NationalRus Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:42 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    again Russia if they armed and trained Syria military well since the war began in 2011 or earlier,it will NOT had the need today to be in Syria today with its own equipment ,defending
    its ally. Because Syria will have been better armed and trained . Russia failed to arm Syria on time, and now it have to be stuck in that conflict. Something as basic as updated T-72s ,Migs-29, and BMP vehicles and provide Syrian army with Bullet proof vest , nothing too hard to do ,could have helped Syria to do much better. and be in a much better position today. and saved many lives.

    by which request? with what money? no if syria wasnt so fuckd up before 2011 and rearmed ITSELF by BUYING the right equipment in time it wouldn't have been in the sate that it is in now, we are not the soviet union to fight and spend OUR money on ideological wars of none reliable "allys" that fucked up, russia didnt fuck up assad and syria did we basically saved them out of mercy from the barbaric savages and after they gave us a card blanche in syria and new base and everything that we could possible want in syria and then SOME.

    wanted them to have had good equipment in 2011? write a letter to assad and say he was a idiot or donate money for the the syrian army

    but nooooooo RUSSIA TO THE RESCUE!!!! ohh fuck off! if not for the sake of the christians and alawites i wouldn't have even bothered to intervene
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:56 am

    Let's be honest though. Alawi Syria is as reliable an ally as it gets in that part of the world. We're not talking effectiveness, we're talking reliability. Those guys despite having a relic of and army are not letting the fight down. It's not the Afghan forces FFS.
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    Post  ultron Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:57 am

    If the Latakia base was there in 2014, Idlib would have never fallen in the first place, Putin would not need to spend the next 10 to 100 years fighting in Syria against Qaeda.
    NationalRus
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    Post  NationalRus Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:12 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Let's be honest though. Alawi Syria is as reliable an ally as it gets in that part of the world. We're not talking effectiveness, we're talking reliability. Those guys despite having a relic of and army are not letting the fight down. It's not the Afghan forces FFS.

    true, we are fighting there for the alawites/shias and christians and they fight desperate and for survival and thats why we need to save them now from filth that only deserves to be gassed, still they fuckd up before and during the war and in general second class "allys" who only give lip service and cant pull there own weight even slightly aren't worth it, its not our job to be "captain russia coming to the rescue"
    Dima
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    Post  Dima Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:13 pm

    Another good shot of Ka-52

    Военный Советник ‏@miladvisor 2 hours ago
    Ka-52 'Alligator' pictured during a military operation on the outskirts of #Qaryatayn #Syria via @SputnikInt
    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8 - Page 32 CfR9dVJW4AEspgm
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    ultron


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    Post  ultron Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:49 pm

    If Putin don't want to fight Qaeda and Russian traitors in Russia itself, blowing up whole towns and cities, then Putin better win in Syria. Syria is red line for Putin. Throughout Putin's term as president he had to fight American aggression in Syria and then in Ukraine. America is full on out for Russian blood.

    Even now Russian arms support to Syria is very minimal. If the US arms Ukraine, the US would provide tons of arms including planes and tanks, not the tiny bit Russia provides to Syria.

    If I were Putin I would have supplied hundreds of Su-30s, thousands of T-90s to Syria, just like the good old Soviet times. USSR itself was betrayed by traitors.
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    Post  ult Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:41 pm

    ultron wrote:If I were Putin I would have supplied hundreds of Su-30s, thousands of T-90s to Syria, just like the good old Soviet times. USSR itself was betrayed by traitors.

    How stupid can one be?
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:44 pm

    ult wrote:
    ultron wrote:If I were Putin I would have supplied hundreds of Su-30s, thousands of T-90s to Syria, just like the good old Soviet times. USSR itself was betrayed by traitors.

    How stupid can one be?

    There is stupid and then there is Ultron stupid. For everything else, there is mastercar..........trolling
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:04 pm

    ult wrote:If I were Putin I would have supplied hundreds of Su-30s, thousands of T-90s to Syria, just like the good old Soviet times. USSR itself was betrayed by traitors.

    How stupid can one be?
    Some might regard responding to Ultron as being in that category Laughing
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:25 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    ult wrote:If I were Putin I would have supplied hundreds of Su-30s, thousands of T-90s to Syria, just like the good old Soviet times. USSR itself was betrayed by traitors.

    How stupid can one be?
    Some might regard responding to Ultron as being in that category Laughing

    What's wrong with entertainment?
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:01 pm

    Russia’s proposal on Syria inclusive talks blocked at UN Security Council - UN envoy

    UN, April 6. /TASS/. Western member states of the UN Security Council voted to block Russia’s proposal on the all-inclusive nature of the upcoming round of intra-Syrian talks, Russia’s UN envoy Vitaly Churkin said.

    According to the Russian diplomat, a delegation from Ukraine, which is not a permanent UN Security Council member, "also added its destructive share" into the decision to block the Russian proposal.

    Go figure, a Ukrainian delegate that pretends to be important follows whatever the west does. What a bunch of clowns. They make themselves look like idiots on international community.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:07 pm


    #Syria Looks like RuAF is coming back in the game. Massive airstrikes reported by local activists south / west of Aleppo and in Idlib prov

    https://mobile.twitter.com/green_lemonnn/status/717479406105702400
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:05 pm

    Western states block Kurdish participation in Syria peace talks proposed by Russia
    calm
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    Post  calm Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:31 am




    Last edited by calm on Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total
    calm
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    Post  calm Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:32 am

    double post
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:44 am

    Great footage. The best one so far showing off Alligators in action.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8 - Page 32 Empty Ka-52

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:04 am

    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8 - Page 32 O8Y6UUV
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    Post  Teshub Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:20 am

    JohninMK wrote:Welcome to the thread. If that sickens you perhaps you have strayed into the wrong place.
    Hey guys, I am no stranger to death or what happens during military actions. I've got no problem watching videos of troops getting shot during a firefight, the carnage of a FOAB, or even those Yemeni IED ambushes (a nice piece of fieldcraft). I'm not even against releasing what is little more than a shooting fish in a barrel movie.

    What sickens me is setting it to techno music as if that makes it somehow 'cooler' and the crew deliberately splattering the guts of a clearly injured and non-retaliating combatant with an entire volley of rockets. It was a head hunt.

    The sheer profligate waste of ammo aside, it doesn't even make strategic sense... which should be to destroy the tents and materiel they contain so the unit is rendered combat ineffective, leave WIA combatants to be a long-term medical burden, and ensure enough survivors to spread the loss of morale.

    We don't know where the action took place or when or who the combatants were so it is difficult to pass judgement as to what degree the targets deserved what happened to them.
    Fair enough. If these guys had just butchered a school or gang raped every man, woman and child in a nearby village then so be it.  But if they were just soldiers, albeit religious fanatics, then they still deserve to be treated under the rules of war. Not every member of Al Nusra or ISIS is a heart eating, beheader of civilians.

    Again, I have no problem with them being bombed. I do think it crosses the line to unnecessarily fire off a volley of Hydra 70 rockets on a wounded combatant unable to fight back. Do you think that will cow the enemy when they see the footage, or increase the anger and outrage of Islamic fundamentalists?

    If it was ISIS and other terrorist groups, then perhaps they should have considered the phrase 'do unto others what one would have done to oneself' before they started down the path they took, slaughtering ('helpless' as you might put it) prisoners and civilians.
    If history has taught us anything, it is that its always dangerous to descend to the level of the enemy.

    You may think I'm raising a straw man, but that video showed clear signs of the slip towards inhumanity. From there its just a small step towards flattening entire city blocks come what may. Are we not seeing exactly that with Ukrainian shelling of Donbass? The Israeli levelling swathes of the Gaza strip two years ago? The shooting of restrained/wounded prisoners by Israeli soldiers (or US cops)? Even the shooting of helpless parachuting Russian airmen by Turkmen?

    If nobody stands up for the Geneva Conventions, then we're all in for a very rough time when instability comes home to roost. If the US won't do it, I sure as hell hope the Russians will.
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    Post  medo Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:45 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #8 - Page 32 O8Y6UUV

    Now we know for 3 Ka-52 operating in Syria with b/n 77, 78 and 79. Only thing, that I don't like very much is using them in daylight from close distance with unguided rockets. They have old Mi-24P for this job. Ka-52 should do night operations only with guided Ataka ATGMs precise attacks using its radar and powerful optics with thermal imager. For day and night time strikes I would more like to use Mi-28N as it have stronger armor. Maybe this is only to show, that Ka-52 are now in combat too.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:30 am

    Teshub wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Welcome to the thread. If that sickens you perhaps you have strayed into the wrong place.
    Hey guys, I am no stranger to death or what happens during military actions. I've got no problem watching videos of troops getting shot during a firefight, the carnage of a FOAB, or even those Yemeni IED ambushes (a nice piece of fieldcraft). I'm not even against releasing what is little more than a shooting fish in a barrel movie.

    What sickens me is setting it to techno music as if that makes it somehow 'cooler' and the crew deliberately splattering the guts of a clearly injured and non-retaliating combatant with an entire volley of rockets. It was a head hunt.

    The sheer profligate waste of ammo aside, it doesn't even make strategic sense... which should be to destroy the tents and materiel they contain so the unit is rendered combat ineffective, leave WIA combatants to be a long-term medical burden, and ensure enough survivors to spread the loss of morale.

    We don't know where the action took place or when or who the combatants were so it is difficult to pass judgement as to what degree the targets deserved what happened to them.
    Fair enough. If these guys had just butchered a school or gang raped every man, woman and child in a nearby village then so be it.  But if they were just soldiers, albeit religious fanatics, then they still deserve to be treated under the rules of war. Not every member of Al Nusra or ISIS is a heart eating, beheader of civilians.

    Again, I have no problem with them being bombed. I do think it crosses the line to unnecessarily fire off a volley of Hydra 70 rockets on a wounded combatant unable to fight back. Do you think that will cow the enemy when they see the footage, or increase the anger and outrage of Islamic fundamentalists?

    If it was ISIS and other terrorist groups, then perhaps they should have considered the phrase 'do unto others what one would have done to oneself' before they started down the path they took, slaughtering ('helpless' as you might put it) prisoners and civilians.
    If history has taught us anything, it is that its always dangerous to descend to the level of the enemy.

    You may think I'm raising a straw man, but that video showed clear signs of the slip towards inhumanity. From there its just a small step towards flattening entire city blocks come what may. Are we not seeing exactly that with Ukrainian shelling of Donbass? The Israeli levelling swathes of the Gaza strip two years ago? The shooting of restrained/wounded prisoners by Israeli soldiers (or US cops)? Even the shooting of helpless parachuting Russian airmen by Turkmen?

    If nobody stands up for the Geneva Conventions, then we're all in for a very rough time when instability comes home to roost. If the US won't do it, I sure as hell hope the Russians will.
    Fair enough, you make some valid and well thought out points. Apologies, thought you might just be a troll.

    Given that this is a US video and the US is supposed to be the world's premier country, it is as you say hugely concerning that they seem to not give a sh*t about 'rules of war' unless it is something done against them. So far, from all the evidence we have seen, Russia seems to be applying in general a higher standard in its operations.
    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:44 am

    Illegal Islamists  immigrants from Syria.... in Greece,  are taking control of a hi-way leading to borders , .. asking from a Greek lory driver to show his papers..!! , and not allowing him to pass... !!  and the police is just watching !!!

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