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Walther von Oldenburg
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    Agriculture and Industry killing us

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:02 pm

    https://rusvesna.su/future/1575358103

    Grossly fake science from Canada. Some BS correlation study (*) purports to link a 4-fold increase in prostate cancer risk from
    intake of saturated fats. I dare these scumbags to explain why Canadian Inuit whose diet is super high in saturated fats from
    fish and sea mammals are not all dying from prostate and other cancers.

    This fake study is the general level of "medical research" for the last several decades. The "researchers" writing this crap
    apparently do not know what confounding variables are in regression analysis. Western diets high in saturated fats are completely
    overlapped with high carbohydrate and sugar intake (think choux creme pastry or stake and potatoes). So the saturated fat
    intake is correlated with other variables that are true causal factors and is being spuriously tagged as the causal factor.

    These clowns have no idea of what mechanism would explain saturated fat "causing" cancer. Saturated fat is not a mutagen,
    teratogen or carcinogen. The only possible association is there are such toxins dissolved in the fat. This is actually a
    serious possibility. That animals (e.g. cows) are exposed to carcinogens and store them in their fatty tissues. This is
    an established detoxification response in animal and human metabolisms. The response involves insulin which not only controls
    sugars (and is generated in response to them) but any strange chemical substance that enters the blood stream. Insulin is
    the fat storage hormone.

    Instead of spreading false advice, these clowns should tell people what is really going on. We have a cancer pandemic with
    people having a 33% chance of getting cancer. This pandemic is due to the spew of never-before seen chemicals into the
    environment and the high sugar (carbs are glcuose and fructose as far as the metabolism is concerned) diets. Stopping
    saturated fat intake will not solve this problem since the contamination is in the water supply and in the air we breathe.
    It is time to address the problem and not whore for Big Agro, industry and Big Pharma. The profits of these outfits cannot
    come before the health of the population. (Oh my, such socialist thinking...)

    (*) The study claims to identify an "oncogene" (MYC) expression stimulus from saturated fats. This sounds like a mechanistic
    study but it isn't. It is basically impossible to separate food chemicals into non-interacting bins, study them alone and
    then combine them linearly. MYC expression could be triggered by other chemicals in the food and the whole premise of
    a "cancer gene" is BS. It is hyperbolic labeling. I can call cortisol the death hormone. But it is there for a reason
    and its detrimental effects are triggered by other factors. Under normal conditions cortisol is released concurrently
    with adrenaline and acts to maintain homeostasis. But stress from psychological abuse, chemical exposure, and other
    modes that do not involve adrenaline can release cortisol as well. Then it is a problem. Similarly for these so-called
    oncogenes. They must have anti-oncogene partners. And so the question is what is about the food intake that can promote
    the wrong regime of operation. Nobody eats 100% saturated fats and 0% other compounds. But cancer requires glucose
    to survive. Heart cells do not consume glucose but operate on a ketogenic "diet" and one does not hear about any heart cancer.
    Sugar can trigger all sorts of nasty effects. And elevated blood sugar levels (compared to our ancestors) is likely a key
    factor in cancer onset. So the oncogenes are not merely responding to saturated fat. They are responding to a certain
    spectrum of food intake and sedentary lifestyle.





    Last edited by kvs on Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:16 pm

    kvs, is there evidence that we have a cancer pandemic caused by anything other than increasing age of the population and obesity (= chronic inflammation in the body)?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:37 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:kvs, is there evidence that we have a cancer pandemic caused by anything other than increasing age of the population and obesity (= chronic inflammation in the body)?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30267-6/fulltext

    Cancer rates for younger aged people are increasing. This has zero to do with any change in longevity. And longevity growth in the USA
    has stalled in the last 15 years.

    https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/223159ab-en.pdf?expires=1575416621&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=BE76914309A48AF63558DE40A2BFD772
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:01 am

    Same problem in Agriculture as in politics... decisions are made for those with deep pockets instead of for the benefit of the population.

    Perhaps a study to show the funding sources of major studies used to define government policy would be in order... but there is no money to fund such a thing even though it would ultimately be in the publics interests.

    Big companies only seem to be interested in making more money, so there is no funding for pets and animals... who strangely enough are coming down with similar problems to what humans are suffering. Perhaps it is their diet because the same crap they put in human food to reduce costs and for use as filler to bulk out the product, they are putting in pet food and making big profits.

    You should not feed your dog or cat with dry food, it dehydrates them and often contains stuff that is cheap like corn or oats that their bodies cannot process.

    Pet food companies will say raw meat is bad for pets because it can contain bacteria, but dogs and cats have always eaten that, that is what their bodies are designed to process... their stomachs contain very highly acidic fluids that protect them from contaminated meat and bacteria... they will eat fresh kills but they will also eat carrion that has been lying out in the open for days or weeks.

    The situation is that governments used to fund this sort of research for the greater good, but then big business came in and said you should let the market control the research funding and let us do that. Governments were happy to save money and so they largely stopped... in the west... and big business funded studies... but they were selective. Big pet food companies wont research diet and health of cats and dogs eating their pet food... they own the market and at best it will cost them money and people will realise that pet food marketed to be tasty to humans makes no sense as food for animals that don't even have the same sense of taste that we do.
    At worst it will reveal their food is killing our pets and making them sick and they might have to spend money buying meat to put in their food instead of cheap corn or grain or other shit they put in there to appeal to vegan humans.

    Interesting to see how many vegans feed their pets a vegan diet because their pets would be dead in a month.

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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:38 pm



    Worth repeating how the scumbag Ancel Key and politicians messed up the health of tens of millions of people with their
    fake nutritional "science".

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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:45 pm



    Scratch under the surface of "healthy" diet advice and you will find outright fraud. Such as the ludicrous claims about
    the longevity of Okinawa residents supposedly because they do not eat saturated fat. That is a lie and their diet
    has historically depended on pork. The "study" purporting to establish their diet used so often is from right after
    WWII when they were starving. Yeah, real science that.

    If anything the Okinawa example is that a moderate diet is more important. The volume of food intake affects your
    longevity since we do not have magic digestive systems. We are exposed to both positive and negative factors from
    what we eat that propagate throughout our bodies. That food does not kill you fast does not mean that it has no
    long term impact. Clearly it does. The low calorie intake by the people of Okinawa likely contributed to the longevity
    anomaly. But old data is not relevant data if the situation has changed.

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:30 am



    So glyphosate is used to produce wheat for wheat flower. I thought it was only used with corn. I guess where there is
    a corporate marketing department, then there is a way. What total and utter shite.

    Glyphosate kills the bacteria in the soil requiring more water to grow the planet. In the case of corn it doubles the water
    needed. I am sure it does something similar for wheat. Glyphosate may not directly damage our metabolisms but it screws
    up the bacteria in our gut. The health of our gut bacteria affects our health. Most people have no clue about this. For
    example, the chemical precursors for tryptophan and other brain chemicals are produced in the gut by bacteria and not by
    our own metabolism.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:47 am

    glyphosate

    Hahahahaha... people of my generation say where did all the frogs and lizards and bumble bees and normal bees go...

    glyphosate...

    Also why does everyone I know know someone who died of cancer...

    glyphosate...
    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:35 pm

    Persons who live in the area I do, are fortunate, because there are Farmer's Markets, with fresh garden veggies, and organic beef, plus other homemade goods, and also persons have home gardens, growing own veggies.

    My daughter and her husband, and my Granddaughter and her husband plant gardens, and my son-in-law (who used to be a carpenter by trade) built a fantastic green house.

    Some cities in the USA have communal gardens.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:56 am

    We have a tv show here called Country Calendar and it has been going for half a century and it just goes to farms of all types and just looks at life on the farm and what they are doing... sort of a way for farmers to see what other farmers are doing.

    Well occasionally you will get a few kooks, but what they often talk about is interesting... I remember one guy who took soil samples and sent them off to be analysed and the information that came back he used to look at the sort of crops he could grow naturally in such soils without any special treatment... and so he grew a specific set of plants for a few years and then did another test to check the soil composition and changed the plants he grew based upon the results...

    He got a hell of a lot of stick from local farmers around him at the time because standard procedure in that region was to grow X and if it didn't grow properly the first year you fertilised the soil with fertiliser A and then next year it would grow well, but because of all the other local crops of the same thing pests were a serious problem so you had to use this insecticide too and that is how everyone did it.

    The specific seed they used was expensive and didn't make a lot of money because everyone else in the area was producing it too so they were competing with each other and driving down the price because the same land the same weather they delivered their product to market at the same time and flooded the market which pushed the price down.

    The insecticide was not cheap either... and was the sort of stuff you wore a full Hazmat suit when handling it and it would go everywhere.

    Anyway this kook said no to the standard seed and no to insecticide and when it came time to deliver the crop to market nobody else was selling what he was selling so he normally made rather good money... good money that was not spent on one particular seed or insecticide.

    It is not Kook science... crop rotation is thousands of years old and with modern technology you can get your soils tested cheaply and quickly and you don't end up using a lot of fertiliser and insecticide.

    Not all crops are for humans, one valuable range of crops is for feeding animals during dry periods or winter feed, the point is that you don't need to put all your eggs into one basket... here in New Zealand a pine tree will grow from seedling to full mature tree in 25 years because of our mild climate... that means you can plant out your near vertical paddocks in pine trees and go out a couple of times a year to prune them and in 25 years time a few cents a seedling becomes $800 trees. A good investment for retirement, but other parts of the farm you can produce all sorts of other products so that when the market for one product is not making money, other areas can compensate and cover you.

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    Cowboy's daughter
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:55 am

    If there's a food security thread, Idk where it is. Everything I've read recently points to food insecurity in the not distant future in the usa, and shortage of some crops... drought in the Western US and California, shortage of water, wildfires, plague of grasshoppers, it's not looking good for city folks.
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    Post  kvs Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:51 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:If there's a food security thread, Idk where it is. Everything I've read recently points to food insecurity in the not distant future in the usa, and shortage of some crops... drought in the Western US and California, shortage of water, wildfires, plague of grasshoppers, it's not looking good for city folks.

    I don't think we have a thread like that on the forum. You can start one since I think that it is on topic for a military forum since economics
    is one of the prime precursor for war. I think that global civilization is facing collapse from all the negligence chickens coming home to roost.
    Even if the current population of the planet is not too high in principle, in practice the wasteful and polluting footprint of humans is huge.
    We are pooping in our food like rodents except that we are living in a small box and not some vast frontier where there is more over the horizon.

    Soil degradation, contamination and the build up of carcinogens in the environment from industry and even daughter products of organic
    chemistry from primary pollution, like car exhaust, is saturating. There is no infinite toilet for our waste and abuse of the resource base
    including soils. Around the world aquifers are being depleted. This is bad for the US mid west and it is bad for India. Loss of mountain
    glaciers is progressing and these feed a lot of critical river systems around the world.

    I just do not see happy times in the coming decades. The social rot we see today is just going to contribute to the perfect storm heading
    our way. We are not going to be flying spaceships like Capt. James T. Kirk in the coming centuries. We will be starting from scratch.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:02 pm

    Not so much Star Trek, more like Mad Max....

    The thing is that if we do wipe ourselves out, and there is enormous scope to do so, the planet wont care... it will just keep going on weather systems and time slowly erasing everything we did... Like the Shanarra series by Terry Brooks, it sounds like medieval period stuff but old ruins hint at a previous civilisation that was clearly vastly superior... even magic sounds technology based with nanites being the source... which is as good as anything to be our undoing.
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:10 pm

    https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/walmart-rolls-out-budget-insulin-low-income-diabetics-struggle-afford-drug

    Starting this week, the retailer will begin selling their exclusive insulin, ReliOn NovoLog, according to CNBC, with availability at its membership-based Sam's Club in mid-July. The cost will be $73 per vial, or around $86 for a package of prefilled insulin pens. Branded competitors are selling the same formulation for as much as $101 per vial / $251 per pack of insulin pens.

    More than 34 million people in the U.S. — or nearly 11% of the population — have diabetes, and about 1.5 million Americans are diagnosed every year, according to the American Diabetes Association. That percentage is about 14% among Walmart shoppers, said Warren Moore, Walmart's vice president of health and wellness, on a call.

    As the number of people with diabetes climbs, the cost of the 100-year-old drug has soared rather than fallen and drawn scrutiny from lawmakers. The annual cost of insulin for people with Type 1 diabetes in the U.S. nearly doubled from $2,900 in 2012 to $5,700 in 2016, according to the most recent data available from the Health Care Cost Institute. -CNBC

    According to the American Diabetes Association, 25% of diabetics have turned to rationing doses during the pandemic, while the disease has skyrocketed among low-income individuals over the last decade compared to those classified as middle income or near-poor.

    Walmart EVP of health and wellness, Dr. Cheryl Pegus, said the company's version of the drug - made by Novo Nordisk, will expand access to care.

    "This price point, we hope, will improve and hopefully revolutionize the accessibility and affordability of insulin," said Pegus during a call with reporters. "We know that many people with diabetes struggle to manage this chronic condition because of its financial burden."

    People run around claiming that obesity in the USA reflects its high standard of living. BS. The US poor can only afford carbohydrate based junk food
    of the high glycemic index variety. Such as cheap macaroni, sugar laden junk food, etc. The increase in diabetes reflects the declining standard
    of living of the USA combined with the nutritional insanity foisted on the public during the 1970s.

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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:31 am



    The so-called approved diet is begging for cancer to eventually show up. The glucose level in most modern, low activity humans is insane.
    If you look at the eating pattern of humans before agriculture, they had much lower glucose and much higher ketone levels. And no, they
    did not all die in their 30s. In fact, that was the average lifespan in Europe a few centuries ago, which was lower than in Rome. This is
    not about "the noble savage", this is about evolution. Humans have not evolved to be sedentary grain carbohydrate eaters. Humans are
    biologically the same as 10,000 years ago. Back then we had to work to get our food by being physically active and we also did not have
    daily sugar and substantial starch intake. Hunting for meat and fat was a primary activity and the diet reflected this.

    People say that we would die from lack of sugary fruit intake. BS. Humans did not eat only lean meat from animals, they ate most of
    it including tissues rich in vitamin C and other vitamins. Most places on the planet do not have fruit year round or even half of the year.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:09 am

    It is funny what people think.

    I used to think fruit drinks were healthy because they are made of fruit and fruit is good for you... it is meat that is bad.

    In actual fact fruit drinks are just a source of sugar... you don't even get the fibre you would get if you actually ate the fruit, so it is all the bad things from fruit with none of the healthy things.

    Always used to think freshly squeezed orange juice was healthy.

    Also your metabolism changes during a normal day so if you want to eat greasy unhealthy food... do it for breakfast... a fry up for breakfast is the best time to have it because unlike tea time you don't go to bed within a few hours and just lie there trying to do to sleep.

    On RT there is a programme that was about diet and it suggested fasting as a way of forcing your body to burn fat....

    The obesity problem is about people reading the signals their body gives them wrong... using a car analogy people confuse their rev counter for their fuel light telling them they are low on fuel.

    When you do work and start to burn energy the body needs more energy and there are a couple of places it can get it. One is to eat food, a second is to burn sugars in the blood, and a third is to burn fat... but that is in order of ease.

    The problem is that if you eat every time you are hungry then you burn sugars (or if alcohol is consumed it can't be stored so it is used first), but then eating replaces sugars too.

    The key is to eat low sugar food where energy is released much slower over a much longer period so you don't have sugar highs and of course the corresponding sugar lows.

    If you are 123kgs like me you can miss a meal or two quite safely and what you will find is that after some time you stop feeling hungry... and that is because the body has realised there is no food available and it is dipping into energy reserves... which is sugar levels and fat.

    Obviously if you are diabetic then talk to your doctor before doing this because a diabetic coma is not something to make fun of, but if you can eliminate sugar from your diet and get some exercise then fasting can help burn fat... but don't expect it to melt instantly and if you feel weak or dizzy then obviously have something to eat... but make it a stick of celery or a carrot or perhaps an apple or orange or banana and drink plenty of water.

    When I stopped drinking fizzy drinks my blood sugar levels dropped dramatically.

    It is interesting though that since cat food makers have started putting stuff like corn and other cheap food that they put in our food the instances of diabetes in cats has increased enormously... does anyone thing that is a coincidence?

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    Post  kvs Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:20 pm

    There are good, research backed videos about "alternate day fasting" on Youtube and they support the historical fact that humans do not
    have to eat every day. Even today there are ethnic groups that live the original lifestyle and when a hunting party goes to get food
    it can take a week without basically any food. So humans can be active while not eating. That is what the fat stores are for. This also
    shows why it takes so long to lose weight since the energy density is enormous. Nobody can burn off several pounds of fat in a day
    since their body cannot use so much. Most daily weight loss people see is water and glycogen. The liver stores this type of sugar
    together with water. One pound of glycogen is associated with about four pounds of water. It will burn glycogen before fat.

    A large fraction of the population that is genetically prone to Type II diabetes has a pathology known as insulin resistance. For these
    people the mode of metabolic operation is to create fat from sugars and to hyper-store it. Fasting (including that which occurs
    during sleep) is the really the only way they can burn fat. Insulin release is not just triggered by sugar and carbohydrate consumption,
    it is also triggered when you eat in general including for protein and fat (nobody really eats 100% fat only). The people who do not have
    insulin resistance typically burn excess blood glucose in cells to release heat instead of converting the excess glucose to fatty acids
    and storing it. Insulin is the hormone that directs cells to take in bloody glucose and metabolize it. Insulin resistance is the deficit
    of insulin receptors in cell walls in affected individuals. This results in higher insulin release required to control glucose levels. But
    higher insulin results in cells reducing the number of insulin receptors. This is a long term process, but eventually it becomes catastrophic
    and Type II diabetes. People are routinely checked for blood sugar, but not for insulin levels. Blood sugar will be too high when it
    is too late. By contrast, insulin levels will show a long term increase which indicates a problem. A problem that can be remedied.

    We have what I would call the overeating disease in modern civilization. In addition to the problem of junk food, we have the problem
    of not following the regime we were evolved to follow: eat and then not eat. Most people put something in their mouth six times
    a day. The body is always in food processing mode except at night. The video I linked talks about autophagy. This is a house cleaning
    regime that we basically do not engage. The metabolism operates on the principle of homeostasis with opposite effect hormones
    and stabilizing chemical pathways. We should treat food intake the same way. A fat storage and fat release cycle. That we do not
    all die at the age of 30 from the modern overeating disease does not men that we should ignore it. The so-called metabolic syndrome
    diseases (heart attacks, diabetes, even Alzheimer's) are the main source death in people over 60 aside from cancer. And cancer is
    also associated with the overeating disease.

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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:48 pm



    Beware of nutritional "research" funded by Coca Cola et al. This is like Exxon funded "research" trying to claim that CO2 has no impact on
    global average temperatures.

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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:47 pm



    Government regulations are routinely based on BS and not proven science. We had the hysteria over saturated fats and non-oxidized
    cholesterol (in eggs for example), leading to more consumption of fructose-glucose and giving us the obesity and Type II diabetes epidemic
    in the USA, Canada, etc. Similarly, we have the myth that nitrates and nitrites in cured meats are a source of cancer. This lie is
    totally detached from reality since the body itself uses nitrates and nitrites in quantities much higher than you would get from eating
    bacon. And coup de grace to this nonsense is that vegetables are much bigger source of nitrates/nitrites than cured meats.

    Funny how sugar has never been regulated as a health risk when it clearly is. In fact, sugar is the prime risk factor in metabological
    syndrome diseases (heart attacks, diabetes) and is more than likely a factor in cancer as well. But Big Sugar can buy US politicians
    and these clowns gave it a big source of new money back in the 1970s thanks to substitution of fats with sugars in processed foods.

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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:25 am

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    Post  kvs Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:03 pm



    Why Americans (and Canadians) are fat explained simply and factually.

    Corporate advertisements are a species of propaganda and it works over time. It has become normal to think that ingesting food
    all day long (in whatever quantity) is proper. The human metabolism is not designed to eat all day year round. The total calories
    are not the issue so much as the 20 hours of high insulin out of every 24 hours (if you snack before bed, then insulin will be elevated
    several hours later).

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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:25 am



    All you have to do is watch the first minute. Modern western medicine does not concern itself with nutrition and it is
    farmed out quacks and shills. The most important health factor is ignored by the Big Pharma whores whose job is
    clearly to be pushers for pharmaceuticals "treating" diet induced diseases. These pushers have no professional
    interest in actually curing the key diseases that suck most public health money: heart disease, type II diabetes,
    and related "type III diabetes" Alzheimers's and others. In fact, cancer is linked to the endless pro-inflammatory
    state and lack of autophagy induced by modern diets which is really excessive consumption. That overfed people
    don't croak in their 30s is a miracle.

    Dr. Fung better take care, he is disturbing nasty vested interests. Spreading the truth is dangerous.



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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:48 am



    The medical system is rotten. Pushing the BS narrative established by Ancel Keys and his politician industry whore backers
    to this day is a crime. Ancel Keys was not qualified to study the human metabolism. He was not even a doctor let alone
    a researcher. He was a political hack. His studies are full of fraud. Yet this garbage is fed to the masses to guide their
    choices about health. Even as the advice becomes progressively harder to back with real world results.

    kvs
    kvs

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    Agriculture and Industry killing us  - Page 2 Empty Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

    Post  kvs Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:32 pm



    Physician, heal thyself.

    GarryB likes this post

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 10322
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    Agriculture and Industry killing us  - Page 2 Empty Re: Agriculture and Industry killing us

    Post  kvs Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:04 pm



    Worth watching. The mass media will never inform you on this.


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