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68 posters

    Talking bollocks thread #2

    ZoA
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    Post  ZoA Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:03 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Why Russia experience so many accidents?

    You might be extrapolating too much out of single data point. Russia is big country with lots of buildings and infrastructure so statistically incidents related to then should not be uncommon even if safety is not worse then average.

    Here is list of relatively recent building safety related incidents in EU and US:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Fair_stage_collapse
    http://nationalpost.com/news/world/2-bodies-recovered-from-collapsed-building-in-belgium
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1202214.stm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katowice_Trade_Hall_roof_collapse
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-bridge-collapse-fiu-florida-state-university-project-behind-schedule-over-budget-updates-2018-03-20/
    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolit%C5%ABde_shopping_centre_roof_collapse
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

    Can I conclude anything about safety of EU and US buildings from those incidents alone, or should there be serious statistical analysis before a judgement could be made if they are above or below average?

    That said even if safety in Russia is average or better it could always be improved even more. No excuses.
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    Post  KiloGolf Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:08 pm

    Vann7 wrote:This is Russia being Russia. More of the same stupid Bullshit ,I have yet to see a fire in a mall in Europe or a fire in a mall in America anywhere in the news caused by human error or a short circuit.. in many years.. with civilians killed. But not worries , Putin will prepare a list of condolences and move forward.

    What? Did you miss this from London, only last year?

    71 people lost their lives due to improper (to say the least) fire/building safety standards.
    Sure, Russia is very bad with anything related to health & safety, but not as bad as you think.
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:20 pm

    ZoA wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Why Russia experience so many accidents?

    You might be extrapolating too much out of single data point. Russia is big country with lots of buildings and infrastructure so statistically incidents related to then should not be uncommon even if safety is not worse then average.

    Here is list of relatively recent building safety related incidents in EU and US:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Fair_stage_collapse
    http://nationalpost.com/news/world/2-bodies-recovered-from-collapsed-building-in-belgium
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1202214.stm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katowice_Trade_Hall_roof_collapse
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-bridge-collapse-fiu-florida-state-university-project-behind-schedule-over-budget-updates-2018-03-20/
    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolit%C5%ABde_shopping_centre_roof_collapse
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

    Can I conclude anything about safety of EU and US buildings from those incidents alone, or should there be serious statistical analysis before a judgement could be made if they are above or below average?

    That said even if safety in Russia is average or better it could always be improved even more. No excuses.

    Show me how many people died in Shopping malls or any building in US.. ?
    in the past decade? im not aware of any fire ,that made headlines for the amount of people killed.

    I never said Fires should not happen.. what im saying is that RUssia does not take seriously the security
    of civilians ,and does not meet the most minimum requirements in security ,the standards of the west..
    in prevention of fire accidents.. So this is why whenever there is a Fire ,the entire building is burned.. and hundreds killed. This is also true for air accidents ,that is scary ,how bad it is.. in Russia.


    Britain is no longer a civilized country ,their government deserves a civil war. so is invalid comparison.
    Compare with US instead that have way more buildings than Russia. In summary the Construction Security Standards in the west..for civilian security are heads and shoulders above Russian laws. NO building in US or latin america developed nations is allowed to operate ,if it does not meet a very strict controls for prevention of accidents. and there have to be Equipment in every building ,including staff, to contain a fire in shopping malls. Civilian safety is taken very very seriously as it should be in US..and most developed nations in the west ,when it comes to buildings construction and prevention of accidents.

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:20 pm


    This here people, is called man-made disaster

    Every fire alarm, every fire extinguisher, every sprinkler system, every fire exit had to be personally checked and signed off by someone

    Which means there is list of names for everything

    Go through the list, arrest those responsible and dump their asses in prison

    A slam-dunk case

    This is not a complicated issue
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:23 pm

    Criminal investigation under way. Both against private security firm and the tenant were the fire started and the owner of the mall.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:07 pm

    Those who killed in Grenfell Tower were all Muslim immigrants. Those who killed in Kemerovo were mainly ethnic Russian children.

    Hahahaha... you ignorant bastard... it was actually muslims that door knocked and saved a lot of lives... they were the only ones awake at that hour for their pre dawn meal... part of their culture...

    Over 70 fire engines attended the blaze but still 71 lives were lost... and the building had recently been upgraded because it didn't meet fire standards, but the upgrade was done on the cheap and didn't fix the obvious problems... just cosmetic glossing over.

    There are over 4000 similar buildings in the UK without sprinkler systems... all ISIS needs is some guys with molotov cocktails and a knife... start the fire near the ground floor near the stairs and stab anyone who comes to put out the fire... perhaps posting that in the Guardian or the Sun newspaper will get these buildings fixed... but I doubt it... the real problem is that the owners of the building cant afford the upgrades needed and their clientèle can't afford it either... all the land lord has to say is... sure we can make the building safe... but your rent will go up 500%... you can bet your ass nothing will change... it is not a Russian thing... this shit happens everywhere...

    Leaders of nations are responsible for choosing competent people to do their jobs correctly.
    Any proper inspection of fire prevention on that building will have shown ,it was not prepared
    the building to deal with fire..and the building will have been demanded to close until is prepared to deal
    with Fire accidents. but in Russia things are done in a very different way.. is chaotic to say the least .
    specially their quality controls and supervision..

    Sorry, I didn't see May resign... did you?

    but go find me a fire in a major shopping mall in United States caused by an accident ,electrical problem ,
    that killed a hundred of people? im not aware of Any fire of such dimensions in many decades.. or even lower ones.. not related to Nature.

    No, because they can get sued.

    You look to their schools for the deaths in the US, and on the streets if your skin is black and the shooter is a policeman.

    Show me how many people died in Shopping malls or any building in US.. ?
    in the past decade? im not aware of any fire ,that made headlines for the amount of people killed.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire

    Oakland is in the US, a warehouse fire killed over 30 people.

    Oh the humanity... they were so civilised and probably white.... oh the humanity... but Grenfell is ok coz dem blak.

    This here people, is called man-made disaster

    Every fire alarm, every fire extinguisher, every sprinkler system, every fire exit had to be personally checked and signed off by someone

    Which means there is list of names for everything

    Go through the list, arrest those responsible and dump their asses in prison

    A slam-dunk case

    This is not a complicated issue

    Except that the actual problem is likely corruption... those things were signed off as OK because for a fraction of the cost of fixing the problems the owners likely bribed the inspectors to look the other way.

    Criminal investigation under way. Both against private security firm and the tenant were the fire started and the owner of the mall.

    That is not the Vann way... people must be fired now and putin must resign.... who cares what the result of any investigation is... except in the great and mighty and fucking perfect US they actually do have investigations and make changes to the system based on the findings of those investigations... but lets ignore that part of what they do...
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:11 pm

    At Least 64 Killed, Including Many Children


    https://www.wgauradio.com/news/russian-shopping-mall-fire-kills-alarms-reported/8ZvsrBmGpgkrsMhYYRvRlI/


    Fire exits blocked, the sprinklers did not work, there was no fire alarm sounded, a security guard turned off the public communications system after he was phoned with a report about the fire.

    Was this a cleverly disguised terrorist attack?


    Incidents of this scale rarely ever happen in the West. Not of this magnitude.

    That Katowice Hall Roof Collapse, that was in Poland, or as some prefer in (soon to be independent) "Silesia", or not really a Western country. The hall was owned by a New Zealander, but I guess he did not care about Polish/"Silesian" lives.

    Zolitude, that is in Latvia, again not really a Western country.

    In case of the Grenfell Tower either all or most of the victims were immigrants.
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:...Except that the actual problem is likely corruption... those things were signed off as OK because for a fraction of the cost of fixing the problems the owners likely bribed the inspectors to look the other way....

    Even better

    In addition to negligence, endangerment and murder/manslaughter they can also add bribery and corruption to the charges to get extra length on prison sentences

    And even more names for the list, those who took the money are also juts as responsible if not more

    Slam-dunk case
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:40 pm




    With regard to the Grenfell Tower fire, I think it was intentionally set by some English in revenge for the previous terrorists attacks in England, but they will never openly admit to that.

    But "the message has been made" regardless of whether they will admit to it or not.
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    Post  KiloGolf Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:12 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:With regard to the Grenfell Tower fire, I think it was intentionally set by some English in revenge for the previous terrorists attacks in England, but they will never openly admit to that.

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 8 Give-that-man-a-slice-of-ukraine

    ..to go with the tin-foil hat
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:06 am

    Russia: 'There was no real help' - Survivor recounts Kemerovo deadly blaze




    I know how this will end.. they will arrest a man or two for incompetence..
    and the Government will pass the page and continue as if nothing happened.
    But NO REAL change , No real reform in Russia will happen ,they will continue with
    the same very low security controls and quality controls.. and we will continue to see
    more fires with nobody doing anything to help until Government firefighters arrive the scene.
    and More Civilian and Military planes crashes too... consequences of poor supervision and quality controls.

    This is not conspiracy theories.. don't take my word for it..  

    When you don't have proper supervision or quality controls , "accidents" can happen.

    Lie detector exposes sabotage of Proton-M booster - report

    https://www.rt.com/news/165024-proton-booster-sabotage-investigation/

    Just think about that for a second.. if Russia government have quality controls
    issues ,security controls issues ,poor supervision issues ,with their most important projects..
    like it will be Russia space program..then imagine how much worse will be everything else ?
    including cities security? Shopping malls security?


    With the last Proton Accident.. it was Rogozin himself.. who posted that a possibility
    of the accident of Proton Rockets could be sabotage .. When someone of so high ranking
    of Russian Government makes such comments is because there is reasons for it..

    Whether is sabotage or poor security controls.. the source of the problem is the same.
    Government incompetence ,in monitoring and supervising the security in their country.


    People that don't follow the security rules and managers that do not do their jobs correctly. and all this
    is consequence of POOR LEADERSHIP.. of not hiring the correct people to do their jobs .
    This also happened with the Airport bombing incident..in Russia. the owner of the airport was arrested.
    but do anything changed? NO.. The RUssian Government continues to show incapability to protect
    Russian citizens ,consequence of poor leardership . poor supervision and is President Putin ,the one responsible
    that any agency in the government gets competent people in their positions ,and not wait for people to die ,
    to fire them from their jobs if they violate the laws of security ,placing at risk civilian lives.

    In last space rocket accident the manuals were illegally changed ,and nobody noticed it until an
    accident. What is this if not Poor Supervision ? and poor management ?

    This is why i believe is a culture thing , combined with Poor Organization and managing
    of Russia Government. Perhaps People being hired in top positions only for friendship
    political favors and not for managing capabilities..
    .
    If Putin needs to micromanage everything to get it right , then he is doing something wrong.
    if that shopping mall in Siberia had all the western security tools to prevent or minimize fires..
    or at least contain fires to just one zone.. and proper supervision that the security was working..
    then no civilians will have been killed at all. the fire will have been contained quickly.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:29 am; edited 3 times in total
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 am

    I smell another NATO psyop. Not that NATO staged this, but their soft power elements are springing into action to sow discontent
    with the "regime". This is the same crap as attributing all of Yeltsin's rot to Putin. Navalny goes around claiming that the 1990s were
    a golden era. In an alternate reality, maybe.

    As pointed out already, the number of such incidents in Russia is not large. It is the troll poster and his fellator from Finland that
    are extrapolating a curve from a single point. Considering the level of criminal negligence such as this building and various officials
    associated, it is rather surprising that Russia is not getting a dozen of such incidents every year if not every season. This particular
    event was the worst one in many years. That is some sort of miracle. Or maybe things aren't as bad as they are made out to be.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:15 am

    MAJOR Protest in Siberia ...for the lack of security in the shopping ..
    It looks like Russians are getting fedup with the government lack of security..
    No place is safe.. and should be embarrassing for Putin to recognize they are right..



    Putin should cancel all victory stupid parades..and celebrations of past victories ,that happens almost
    every week in Russia and use the money for safety of Russian people instead. Hiring more security and enforcing
    major quality controls across all Russia.

    Also Mark my words  
    Putin is doing a major mistake in hosting FIFA 2018... when Russia is on the middle
    of a cold war ,that is now close to hot.. Britain MI6 and the CIA and many other nations
    will be sending professional Troublemakers and Jihadist terrorist to turn up side down Russia ,
    create a living hell in all major Russian cities ,total chaos, promote violence and terrorism
    and discredit Russia as a secure nation for Tourism..
    mark my words.. the west will do everything possible to humiliate Russia government
    and give Russia a bad image world wide ,as the most dangerous place to go...

    and in some way they will be not far from the truth.. Russia is not safe at all ,place to be.
    What kind of attacks Russia could face? Fires in shopping centers , Chemical attacks ,biological attacks..
    Suicide bombers , etc etc etc. Western Elites and their intelligence agencies will want to truly humiliate
    Russia and destroy the nation image even more than already is as a safe place to travel.

    So Putin will NOT achieve the objectives he had .. Olympics was supposed to help Putin promote Russia..
    as a good nation to visit and he will get the opposite.. In Sochi ,he managed to protect it. but now
    FIFA 2018 will be hosted in 12 cities.. so it will be extremely complicate the security in 12 cities with
    so many agents of violence ,that will enter in Russia without a passport.. during the world cup.

    So this is a big mistake. you dont make celebrations when the wester Governments are already
    at war with Russia.. and seeking to expand it in any way possible. until Russia is destroyed.

    If this fire incident happened in the west ,an incident with so much negligence.. and so many civilians killed,
    will be demanding PUTIN Resignation or at very least more a dozen of Government officials to be sacked and arrested for criminal negligence. Because whether this was an accident or a terrorist attack.. the level of damage could have
    been minimized significantly if the MALL was following strict rules of security and and proper supervision of the mall.

    on a side note..
    George Galloway is even on Record with recommendations to Putin to NOT BE SOFT.. as the idiot always is..
    To not waste his time and think that by being soft will calm the west .because the west is in a declaration
    of war against Russia and they will not stop at anything until get blood from Russia. well said by Galloway.



    Galloway said Russia should not assume that being soft in response to Trump’s action will have any desirable effect.

    “If it were me who was making the decision, I certainly wouldn’t proceed on the assumption that being soft will in any way satiate the ravenous beasts that are baying for Russia’s blood at this point in time,” he said.



    https://www.rt.com/news/422385-expulsion-russian-diplomats-galloway/

    well said by Galloway..
    So you have there a former british lawmaker ,telling Putin to stop being Putin ,to stop being soft and weak,that it will not work anymore. that his Government elite and American elite wants the destruction of Russia and being soft and polite will achieve nothing. That is time for Russia to have a strong leader vs enemies and not a soft and insecure one.. because it will only encourage the west to continue attacking Russia.

    This is why Russia needs to cancel the world cup.. it represent a major security threat for Russia.
    He could Ask QATAR To host the event instead.. but if he still wants to take the big risk... he should completely
    kick British diplomats from Russia and other hostile nations.. so later they don't use their intelligence agencies with diplomatic inmmunity to organize major terror attack. and only leave a small group of US diplomats in Russia ,only enough for keeping at least one phone line open of communication. The less diplomats in Russia from hostile countries ,the more difficult for Russian enemies to organize terror attacks in Russia. and British diplomats reduced to zero..because their government is out of control ,and highly dangerous at this time.

    and i honestly never understood why Russia needs to follow the rules of diplomacy that Americans don't follow.
    They stole Russian property with diplomatic immunity . Russia should make it very hard and very difficult for US and UK and France too and the usual enemies in Europe , nations that are hostile to Russia , to make it very difficult for them to freely move in Russia recruiting opposition and destabilizing it.. Close the embassy of Poland ,Baltics ,and all puppet nations of US,and reduce to a minimum personal staff from Canada ,US ,Ukraine which are hostile to Russia.
    Such actions will make Russia a much safer place from terrorism.. since foreign intelligence agencies no longer will have a safe zone in Russia to conspire and organize civil unrest and terrorism.
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:18 am

    I'm going to ask this question even though I'm probably not going to get an intelligent or honest answer.

    Vann. Can you name me a country outside of Cuba maybe, that uses state run security for a privately owned mall?
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:20 am


    miketheterrible wrote:I'm going to ask this question even though I'm probably not going to get an intelligent or honest answer.

    Vann. Can you name me a country outside of Cuba maybe, that uses state run security for a privately owned mall?

    United States have federal police in all their airports.. that monitors and supervise everything.
    and in US they have something called Government agencies that monitors and inspect how is the security
    of every building ,if they are prepared to deal with accidents.. You will not be allowed to run.. not even
    a donuts shop if you don't pass the quality controls of a government agency.. For example
    Every business needs to renovate a license of security.. Fire department will inspect every year at least one time
    your business to see if it doesn't violate security protocols.. the Health department will visit food restaurants and fast food for the same.. to see if the business is prepared to sell food and if the quality controls are acceptable. This force business to be always up to date with quality controls and security. The police department also demands Good conduct certificate for all employees ,so that you don't hire dangerous criminals.. and to work in any place you need a Doctor certificate to see if you dont have any contagious illness that can put in danger other lives..

    If you business is in contruction ,the quality controls are way higher.. the more people lives are at risk.. the more
    licenses and inspections you need.. Not even you are allowed to build a house anywhere if the design of the house is not first signed by a Licensed Civil Engineer that see all ok with the contruction.. and you neither can build a house
    in a place that is in a zone that floods ,or is dangerous for your family . So there are extreme quality controls.. in the west.. In Russia things are done very differently... to say at the level of third world nations ,at times.

    I saw in Real Russia channel , run by a guy called SERGEY,, with Horror ,how his new apartment ,brand new ,the constructor of the project was short on money and could not finish them ,so the constructor allowed civilians without experience to finish the apartments and remove walls at will , and rebuild the electrical grid.. so anyone is free to do their own thing.. so what could go wrong?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXT5Vdo4CHw

    So the quality controls in Russia ,the security controls , the codes of construction and the lack of seriousness with
    security , is almost like culture thing... of society being careless about it.. Tanks drives anywhere ,including civilian places.. Combat jets fly near civilians cars.. etc etc.. Is like a jungle.. and is for this reason ,a negative one , that Russian videos are popular in youtube... CRAZY RUSSIANS.. because only in Russia ,a total careless aptitude
    for security and quality controls... if it works.. then is good enough. and security is not priority.

    Is like a culture thing.. Russians don't give a FUCKING SHIT about security ,that is the average society ,
    will risk their lives only for fun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhbMj50rHMw

    or look at this..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBhumQ7eDhM

    In Russia anyone can do whatever they want.. there is next to zero supervision across the entire nation.
    People just don't care a shit of security ,they will take any risk just for an instagram photo. Look at the last video
    how teens can just enter any construction and climb any high place.. ZERO security controls in constructions..
    Is as if risking your life is cool in Russia. and the Government is fully responsible to educate society into really
    caring about security and safety.. So all this jungle like security controls in Russia is consequence goes all the
    way to the Kremlin for the poor organization of Russia ,poor management and poor leadership,poor organization.
    and Putin Is Responsible in part for this.. Because he micro manage everything , instead of promoting competent leaders . Is amazing how he can just sit down and write a list of condolence every time a plane crash.. No
    and solve everything with a stupid Medal.

    Look at Syria.. Why in Hell Russian Military planes are not all armed with anti manpads security?
    why only after combat planes shut down ,they then take the decision to equip mi-8 and su-25 with
    electronic warfare ?? or How in hell is possible than in just two days ,2 planes crash after landing in Russia aircraft
    carrier ? about the same issue?

    Russia unfortunately ,have a very painful shameful record of poor quality controls..
    this is all again and again consequence of Mediocre Leadership ,Mediocre Supervision, Mediocre quality controls.
    Good leaders job is not to make people dependent on you to solve everything. Good leaders will teach others to be leaders too and completely be independent and self suficient.

    This only happens in Russia..

    http://military-heat.bubble.ro/92/algeria-returns-15-migs-due-quality-issues/

    That someone return your planes ,because of the poor quality state they were given.. No

    Russia being Russia.

    and the little secret in all this..
    is that Putin is at the root of all this.. Why?
    Because a real LEADER is supposed to INSPIRE other managers to be better ,to do their jobs better ,to be the best
    of the best in their jobs..to fix problems quickly. And Putin with his lack of energy and bored face ,praising Americans as better than Russia, is not going to motivate many to work harder. He need to inspire managers to be better in their jobs.. in inspire workers to be better in their jobs.

    is not Putin fault of the accidents in Russia.. but he is responsible to create an environment for the solution of those problems..to pick the correct leaders in every place ,and motivate them to supervise others correctly. But it seems to me.. that in Russia people are elected in top positions only for friendship and not for Abilities and qualities.

    Whenever you have accidents ,sabotage ,or even terror attacks.
    Or Problems of productivity..
    all those things comes consequence of ..

    1)Poor Supervision.
    2)Poor Quality controls
    3)Poor security controls
    3)mediocre managers.

    You can't always avoid accidents.. thats clear.. is part of life..
    everyone can do mistakes.. but when this mistakes happens over and over and over again.. then is a government incompetence issue. Russia should not be having so many accidents with so many people killed .. If putin was more focused in Russia security instead of promoting victory parades ,celebrating past victories ,or olympics , then Russia
    will have been a far more efficient nation ,and with far less accidents or terrorism.



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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:49 pm


    Did local officials resign already?

    They are 24 hours overdue.
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:19 pm

    So in other words Vann, no, no other country runs state police at a private mall. No, not talking about airports. Lol.

    As a note, as someone who worked as security in terms of contract negotiations in a first world country, they sign contracts. Many times, companies get slapped or charged for neglecting basic protocols. This doesn't seem to be any different in Russia.

    Please Vann, we know you have no real experience with Russia or how things are done. You don't have to resort to lying and or exaggerating claims of what you saw on TV, then telling us you are an expert on such things, to impress us.....
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    Post  ZoA Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:09 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    ZoA wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Why Russia experience so many accidents?

    You might be extrapolating too much out of single data point. Russia is big country with lots of buildings and infrastructure so statistically incidents related to then should not be uncommon even if safety is not worse then average.

    Here is list of relatively recent building safety related incidents in EU and US:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Fair_stage_collapse
    http://nationalpost.com/news/world/2-bodies-recovered-from-collapsed-building-in-belgium
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1202214.stm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katowice_Trade_Hall_roof_collapse
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-bridge-collapse-fiu-florida-state-university-project-behind-schedule-over-budget-updates-2018-03-20/
    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolit%C5%ABde_shopping_centre_roof_collapse
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

    Can I conclude anything about safety of EU and US buildings from those incidents alone, or should there be serious statistical analysis before a judgement could be made if they are above or below average?

    That said even if safety in Russia is average or better it could always be improved even more. No excuses.

    Show me how many people died in Shopping malls or any building in US.. ?
    in the past decade? im not aware of any fire ,that made headlines for the amount of people killed.
    ...

    You clearly did not bother to check links i provided. Not two years ago 30+ people burned alive in some building in Oakland CA, not to mention for some reasons buildings and bridges in US seem to be collapsing strangely often killing people in the process. But then again I'm sure crazed xenophobes like some in this tread will tell us this is because there are too much blacks and hispanics  in Oakland, city is practicality civil war zone so that should be expected... Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Kimppis Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/978545878519644160

    Mortality from fires in Russia (left total in thousands, right /100,000) . 1. It's very high, a Soviet legacy (of mass alcoholization), as with high mortality in general. 2. Has been going DOWN under Putin. Tragic as it is, Kemerovo wouldn't even have been a big scandal in 2000s.

    Talking bollocks thread #2 - Page 8 DZR-RVcWkAAeSzJ

    KiloGolf wrote:Sure, Russia is very bad with anything related to health & safety, but not as bad as you think.

    I wouldn't say Russia is VERY bad anymore. Use up-to-date statistics people (2010 is very outdated when it comes to Russian health & safety).

    As of 2017:

    Russia's infant mortality and homicide rates both are at American levels. No joke, some very considerable improvements. So while both are certainly high by Western European standards, Russia is not a huge negative outlier anymore, and that makes any American "moral high ground" look even more questionable.

    Alcohol consumption, suicides, abortion rate... all massively down. Life expectancy improving rapidly.

    That's normalcy and stability for you.

    And that's the real context here, IMO.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:57 pm

    ZoA wrote:You clearly did not bother to check links i provided. Not two years ago 30+ people burned alive in some building in Oakland CA, 1:roll:


    So you are comparing a private rented warehouse of someone property that government have no jurisdiction
    of it.. and no one lived there ...

    with a major Shopping center in Siberia ,that receive thousands of visitor every day ?
    are you kidding? Shocked

    Find me any shopping center in United States ,that many people died consequence of negligence
    of the security staff there ? Go ahead.. i dare you to find me any major accident in US ,with many
    people killed in a shooping mall ,consequences of incompetence ?

    The mall in Siberia had Police ,Security staff and TV cameras ,but no one was helped
    to evacuate? Civilians were not told of the fire..  Fire Alarms did not worked? are you kidding?
    This is a new meaning of INCOMPETENCE of the highest levels... How many people Needs to be arrested
    for Criminal negligence in Russia?  It shows Russia Government administration operates in a chaotic way..
    and does not have clear controls of security ,neither enforce them. You see this major carelessness of government
    staff for security across all Russia...  every  Shopping center in Russia needs to have staff constanly checking the security protocols ,so prevent accidents.. heck.. when i worked in retail stores.. there was an employee always all the time a full time employee ,that his job was prevention of accidents.. and to verify that no one was stealing .

    But Russia is Russia and there things are very different. Nobody cares about following the rules of security and this is consequence of Government incompetence. they are supposed to enforce that every building ,that many people will visit, is safe for people. This goes back to Putin.. Even when Private business are not Government jurisdiction..if civilians lives are at risk , then there have to be Government officers of security , inspecting regularly that all recurity protocols are working.. in the Siberian Mall , the fire alarm don't worked.. and the security staff did not helped people either and civilians complain ,that nobody warned them of the fire.. What is that if not the highest level of incompetence. ?? Defending Putin incompetence in creating a system that works ,for monitoring of security and quality controls  is not the way to solve problems. this problems also exist in Russia military.. Russia lose a lot of planes in Russia territory but as always Putin solves everything with a list of condolence. and a medal..  No

    Update..




    So what a "surprise".. the consequence of the accident..
    preliminary reports says..  the fire caused the accident because..

    1)Violation of City regulations in construction..
    2)Supervision incompetence ,
    3) Managers incompetence.

    This is a leadership issue.. the real reason of this incident.
    The mall did was allowed to operate ,even when it did not meet the requirements in security.
    The Staff in charge of security did not evacuated children.
    Emergency Doors of escape all of them locked..  Laughing
    and even when the fire alarms failed.. the security staff did not manually activated it..

    How all this could have been prevented? By having competent people , managers that cares
    about people lives.. and with Trainings on security staff ,with real fire evacuation drills .. and with Videos
    training courses for security staff ,explained them in detail what they need to do .in case of a fire..

    I just happen to work when i was a teen in a cinema.theather for some time. and remember how annoying was my supervisor ,with remembering me to not block the Emergency door.. It was not allowed at any time to block the door..
    not even for a second and neither ,it was allowed people to be anywhere close.. it was a like a no go zone. Smile

    But in Russia anything is possible..
    staff locking an emergency escape door ,when thats defeat the purpose of the door being there.. . lol1

    Only in Russia.. Is just speak volumes of the World Records in incompetence in Russia federation..
    The Putin Government should have an emergency agency responsible for ENFORCING the LAWS of
    security .. even if that means arresting people ,owners of business for violating security laws..
    And many of the mistakes of the security staff, could have been avoiding with TRAINING .and with supervision
    by Government agencies .

    and to CLOSE the shopping mall ,for public.. if the mall does not have working fire alarms.. and dont meet the minimum requirements of operations.. In the video , the staff of security tells Putin ,that he gave recommendations,
    for security.. that alone shows how mediocre is him... Security is not something you recommend ,but you need to enforce.

    If you see a kid walking in a dangerous highway alone, you don't recommend him
    to not do it.. you simply remove him away of the danger..and So Russia emergency officials
    completely failed to do their job.. by allowing the mall to operate without working fire alarms.
    this is criminal negligence. and Putin Government top officials were not even aware of this major criminal violation..

    If in the west.if a shopping mall or restaurant,is found violating major security protocols..
    the business is simply closed. with a lock in the door.. is a simple as that.
    by the fire state department.. and not allowed to Open until it fix the security problems.. that already the Siberian mall have.. but in Russia things are different.. the mall was allowed to operate ,even after violating the protocols of security.
    In the west.. the shopping center will have been closed ,and its owner even risk being arrested.  for criminal behavior of risking lives of people ,by operating the mall without following the security protocols..

    What The Kremlin is doing ,doesnt work.. it needs competent people in charge of nation security ,accident prevention.
    and Officials that enforce the laws.. instead of suggestions or Recommendations.


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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:51 pm


    For starters can someone rename this tread to reflect topic?


    And apparently some Ukranian dipshit called morgue in Kemerovo and told them that there are 300 dead victims:

    https://strana.ua/news/132314-lozhnuju-informatsiju-o-sotnjakh-pohibshikh-pri-pozhare-v-tts-zimnjaja-vishnja-v-kemerovo-rasprostranil-pranker.html

    Which as expected caused mass panic that led to this:

    ....Responding to the demands to reveal the real death toll, the authorities decided to let the activists visit the morgues. Some 10 protesters inspected the facilities and reported back what they saw.

    "We have just visited the morgue and counted [the victims]. I looked through the list, the death toll. That was not the best picture. We visited all cabinets, utility rooms, toilets, roofs, garages, all vehicles; everything we could check, we have inspected. We checked the list of dead people, which includes 64 victims," one of the activists said.

    When they returned to Soviet Square, protesters had already discussed other rumors about large graves prepared at city cemeteries.

    "The mayor once again proposed to create a group [of activists], I went again, this time to the cemetery. We saw seven graves and a space for future graves," he added....

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201803271062965834-russia-kemerovo-shopping-mall-mourning/

    So in addition to overall tragedy these people also had to go through ''hilarious'' humiliation.



    So next time any one of you here starts ranting on other treads about how Russia should ''liberate'' the Ukraine remember this event and do f**k off.
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    Post  kvs Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:10 am

    As I said, NATO's 5th column elements are springing into action. I would arrest all of these "activists" for fomenting hysteria and
    sedition. They can go to f*cking America and live the paradise there.
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    Post  kvs Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:12 am

    BTW, the troll who started this thread posted no data to back up the claim that "so many" accidents happen in Russia of this
    sort. It is up to the mods to control such patent trolling. This thread is nothing but flame bait since anyone with a clue can
    see the troll claim as BS. Do the mods consider this a worthwhile post? Are there literally no standards?
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:55 am

    People are getting to be really tired of Navalny and his crew. Apparently the fat fuck Ukrainian "prankster" who made up the 300 dead comment, is a Navalny supporter or at least tied to Navalny. Which in case, some "protestors" arrived with white paper (don't know significance of this) and made a lot of noise about evil Putin while everyone else was simply holding a silent rally over the dead. So of course, Navalny and his crew are using the dead kids and people as a tool to further their agenda.

    There is also growing number of people demanding that not only this Blogger is heald accountable, but that Navalny is too. Growing number of people believe this was a staged arson by Liberals of Russia because of the timing of everything and how quick Navalny had acted to this disaster.
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    Post  par far Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 am

    Whenever problematic happens, the trolls always come. It does not matter where it is, if something problematic happens in Russia or to Russian interests, the 5th column assholes are going to come out.

    There is a good chance this was done by 5th column bastards.

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