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    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:23 pm

    As you have speculated one reason for very long range weapons could be for using cheaper simpler land based perhaps truck mounted launchers for coastal defence that use ship or sub based sensors as well as shore located sonar arrays on the sea bed to detect targets.

    It would also mean drone aircraft could be designed with dipping sonar or even be able to land on the water surface and use dipping sonar to find targets but can rely on other platforms to engage the targets detected...

    The Russian export models are 40-50km range weapons... a distance they cover in a few minutes because the are ballistic rockets moving at over mach 2.

    For a much longer and potentially smaller and slower weapon having communication with the source of the data could mean a 20-30minute flight time but with updates it would still be effective and land close enough to the target to be useful...
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    Post  George1 Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:12 pm

    The fifth Indian submarine of the Scorpene project is withdrawn from the workshop

    On November 12, 2020, at the Indian state shipyard Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, a ceremonial rollout of the fifth Scorpene non-nuclear submarine, named S 54 Vagir, took place.

    A contract with an initial cost of $ 3.2 billion for the licensed construction of six non-nuclear submarines of the Scorpene project (Indian designation - Project 75) was signed by India with the French shipbuilding association DCN (now DCNS) in 2005. Under the terms of the contract, six boats, which were to be built on MDL with the assistance of DCNS, were planned for delivery to the Indian Navy in 2012-2018. However, the boat building program was significantly delayed due to the technological problems of the Indian side, as well as disagreements with the French side regarding the amount of assistance provided.

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 13 Scorpe10

    https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2122380.html
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    Post  George1 Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:17 am

    The Indian Navy received the first serial domestic heavy torpedo "Varunastra"

    https://en.topwar.ru/177371-indijskie-vms-poluchili-pervuju-serijnuju-otechestvennuju-tjazheluju-torpedu-varunastra.html
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:04 pm

    Quoted from Twitter with this pic attached https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/status/1338076364981882880

    According to reports Indian Navy is in advanced stages of negotiation to lease around 15-18 units of F/A-18 Block IIl from the US defence giant Boeing for @indiannavy
    's indigenously built Aircraft Carrier IAC-1.

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 13 EpHNTVAW8AA4wP5?format=jpg&name=medium
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:54 am

    Backman wrote:Quoted from Twitter with this pic attached https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/status/1338076364981882880

    According to reports Indian Navy is in advanced stages of negotiation to lease around 15-18 units of F/A-18 Block IIl from the US defence giant Boeing for @indiannavy
    's indigenously built Aircraft Carrier IAC-1.

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 13 EpHNTVAW8AA4wP5?format=jpg&name=medium

    Indian Military loves some logistics nightmares.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:02 am

    Hence why they are barely able to work in a conflict as proven.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:22 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Backman wrote:Quoted from Twitter with this pic attached https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/status/1338076364981882880

    According to reports Indian Navy is in advanced stages of negotiation to lease around 15-18 units of F/A-18 Block IIl from the US defence giant Boeing for @indiannavy
    's indigenously built Aircraft Carrier IAC-1.

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 13 Pbs.twimg

    Indian Military loves some logistics nightmares.

    If they stayed with the su 57 program from 2007 on , they would probably be working on a naval version with Russia by now. They could have been one upping China now. Instead , here they are in 2020, leasing F-18's.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:27 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Backman wrote:Quoted from Twitter with this pic attached https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/status/1338076364981882880

    According to reports Indian Navy is in advanced stages of negotiation to lease around 15-18 units of F/A-18 Block IIl from the US defence giant Boeing for @indiannavy
    's indigenously built Aircraft Carrier IAC-1.

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 13 EpHNTVAW8AA4wP5?format=jpg&name=medium

    Indian Military loves some logistics nightmares.
    the superhornet is just an upgrade odfthe hornet, which is a contemporary of the original mig29, so it has definitely not more upgrade potential than the mig 29 or derivatives.
    Furthermore the mig 29/35 is way more manoevrable than the F18. But yeah possibly some Indian official received some big "gift" from boeing or in general from the US.
    The other possibility is that they need to buy US weapon because they need to massacre civilians or similar, and if they buy US weapon for a decent amount of money they will be able to do with impunity (like Saudi Arabia in Yemen)

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:38 pm

    Well indian migs have no upgrade potential since they all crash in the sea...

    But I doubt those f-18 will have more than 10% service rate. If russian spare parts are expensive for them and switch them for shitty quality infian made ones then spare parts for f-18 will never be bought.

    This will be total failure. A bit like f-22 is for US air force.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:19 pm

    The STOBAR aircraft carrier will be able to accommodate up to 30 fighters and helicopters, including Mig-29K fighters jets and Ka-31 helicopters.
    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/indias-new-aircraft-carrier-iac-1-ins-vikrant-passes-basin-trials/

    In June 2012, Flight Global reported that the Indian Navy was considering the use of Rafale M (Naval variant) on these carriers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Vikrant_(2013)#Carrier_air_group



    The F-18s will be less expensive than Rafales; I wonder if 18 of them will be the total # of fighters carried. That leaves 2-4 AWACS planes (if they get them), 2-4 SAR helos, & the rest 4-8 ASW helos. 
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:24 pm

    No AWACS on them. Probably a ka-31 or some other chopper for that role.

    F-18 will be horribly expensive because they need to buy everything from A to Z to use them. The total will be for sure something like the contract for the Rafales.

    And I think thry offered to lease them and not to sell them. Which means US will have its word when it comes to using them and will forbid its use against PAF f-16s so to not hurt f-16 or f-18 reputation as one would have to loose against the other or against Chinese fighter in fear that chinese find out some specs about radars and missiles or again not to destroy their reputation if they loose against chibese flankers.


    The contract will be around 15-20 billions. So at the end they better keep mig-29 and invest in the new russian light 5th gen fighter. With 2.5 billion they can get 30 mig-35 with spare parts and use the rest to inject into the project of mig for a light fighter abd this way they will have their own project. Russia isn't even involved in that so thry would be the main buyer and have a total freedom to oblige Mig to create what they want.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:51 pm

    IMO the US will want to test them vs. PLANAF as later the Chinese may send a CBG into the Indian Ocean. If the IN likes F-18s, they may order, not lease, more for the other carrier, & perhaps for their AF as well.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:09 pm

    Isos wrote:

    And I think thry offered to lease them and not to sell them. Which means US will have its word when it comes to using them and will forbid its use against PAF f-16s so to not hurt f-16 or f-18 reputation as one would have to loose against the other or against Chinese fighter in fear that chinese find out some specs about radars and missiles or again not to destroy their reputation if they loose against chibese flankers.


    Yep. All kinds of strings attached. Maybe they would even be concerned about the Super hornet being pointed at with the S-400. Because they've been shilling the RCS of it since the new intakes.

    If Modi got a little too nationalistic or too close to Russia or God forbid- made peace with China, they would start sanctioning. And the Super hornet would be an easy target.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:27 pm

    Well indian migs have no upgrade potential since they all crash in the sea...

    Which Indian naval MiGs have been lost?

    And how much are India paying for I presume Steam cat systems to get these F-18s airborne from Indian carriers.... their EMALS cats are not working yet so India will need to spend a lot of money either to pay for working EMALS cats to be developed or to get obsolete steam cat systems for their ships... unless they buy EMAL cat technology from China...

    The F-18s will be less expensive than Rafales;

    Both would require cats.... which will double their price and add to any delays...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:00 am

    And how much are India paying for I presume Steam cat systems to get these F-18s airborne from Indian carriers....
    They tried them on a ski rump & showed them capable of flying off STOBAR CVs. F-18E/Fs have powerful engines to enable them carry full warloads, esp. in the Indian Ocean were winds r adequate for added lift on take offs.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:00 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    And how much are India paying for I presume Steam cat systems to get these F-18s airborne from Indian carriers....
    They tried them on a ski rump & showed them capable of flying off STOBAR CVs. F-18E/Fs have powerful engines to enable them carry full warloads, esp. in the Indian Ocean were winds r adequate for added lift on take offs.
    Full war loads ?
    Source ? I read that they proved able to take off with around the same load as Mig 29's. Full war loads sounds like a bit much
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:27 am

    At least with the full warloads needed by the Indian Navy; they can also take off with less fuel & get topped up by their IL-78s. Indian Air Force – 6 Il-78MKIs in service. ..India is also considering procurement of six more Il-78 after scrapping deal with Airbus.[15]


    https://thediplomat.com/tag/ins-vishal/



    https://eurasiantimes.com/indias-navy-day-exposed-the-schism-between-chiefs-of-navy-and-defense-staff/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:04 pm

    So they are going to be using these naval strike fighters in a way that the main user does not off much smaller carriers without cats...

    I would expect that would be a serious hit to their performance potential.

    The MiG is not a strike fighter and was largely intended for air to air use... the F18 is supposed to be a strike aircraft carrying much heavier loads... but without a cat launch I rather suspect they wont be carrying very much very far.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    And the idea of having carrier based aircraft it to become independent of land based aircraft.... like inflight refuelling aircraft for example... if they are going to rely on fuel empty launched F-18s that receive fuel on takeoff from land based Il-78s then why bother with F-18s on ships... Su-30s could operate with tanker support and perform the same mission and they are already in service...

    Introducing the F-18 will introduce an entire new range of air to air and air to ground ordinance that will be required... most of which will be the same as what they have now... but I am sure being American it will be cheaper right?

    Wonder how the Americans will feel about F-18s using R-73s and R-77s...

    After 5 years of negotiations even India will realise this is not going to work....
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:... the F18 is supposed to be a strike aircraft carrying much heavier loads... but without a cat launch I rather suspect they wont be carrying very much very far.- 1 could have a single heavy Ash/LACM like Brahmos while its escorts several AAMs; there's no need for them to fly too far from India. The IN CV/Ns' missions will be similar to Chinese CV/Ns' missions, but only in the N/C Indian ocean, Arabian Sea, & the bay of Bengal.  
    if they are going to rely on fuel empty launched F-18s that receive fuel on takeoff from land based Il-78s then why bother with F-18s on ships...-even the USNAF wasn't shy about using land based 135/KC-10s since late 960s/1991. 
    Introducing the F-18 will introduce an entire new range of air to air and air to ground ordinance that will be required... 
    Wonder how the Americans will feel about F-18s using R-73s and R-77s....-$ don't smell; the IRAF adopted non-US made missiles for its F-4/5/14s; "who cares what the price of rice in China?"
    Btw, the Indian AF operated MiG-25s that r similar in size with F-18E/Fs.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text, links)
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:09 pm

    Boeing released a clip of a Hornet doing a ski jump. Maybe its because its not on a ship so it has no updraft coming at it, but the takeoff just didn't look right compared to the jumps we see from Flankers. A Flanker leaps off and holds the same angle the whole time

    \

    Here's a proper slow mo ramp takeoff (at 3:56)

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:40 pm

    No weapons and who knows how much fuel in it. They need to show it with combat load to prove anything. Until then it's just a show.

    They also need to prove they used the same lenght as of a launch from indian carriers.
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:11 pm

    Backman wrote:Boeing released a clip of a Hornet doing a ski jump. Maybe its because its not on a ship so it has no updraft coming at it, but the takeoff just didn't look right compared to the jumps we see from Flankers. A Flanker leaps off and holds the same angle the whole time

    ...

    It's in the air and works as advertised

    This is in the bag now, India will be getting F-18s

    There's no way MiG-29K can compete with this

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:37 pm

    1 could have a single heavy Ash/LACM like Brahmos while its escorts several AAMs; there's no need for them to fly too far from India. The IN CV/Ns' missions will be similar to Chinese CV/Ns' missions, but only in the N/C Indian ocean, Arabian Sea, & the bay of Bengal.

    So India are going to hand over the secrets of Brahmos to the Americans to get them to integrate this single heavy missile for the F-18 which probably could not carry a single brahmos missile anyway... so that is the plan.... get their hands on a real supersonic anti ship missile by pinching the Brahmos... amusing.

    even the USNAF wasn't shy about using land based 135 /KC-10 s since late 960s/1991.

    They have bases in over 800 countries world wide with inflight refuelling aircraft distributed around the world ready for use. India does not.

    .-$ don't smell; the IRAF adopted non-US made missiles for its F-4/5/14s; "who cares what the price of rice in China?"

    The Iranians didn't pay the Americans to integrate new weapons... India wont be integrating new weapons herself... the US would have to do that which hands over all Indian secrets to the US... a country that also occasionally supports Pakistan when it is convenient...

    Btw, the Indian AF operated MiG-25 s that r similar in size with F-18E/F s.

    My arse is probably similar in size to Mike Tysons arse, but I don't pretend we are alike in any other practical way.

    Indian AF is not the same as Indian Navy, and the MiG-25 is nothing at all like the F-18.

    Boeing released a clip of a Hornet doing a ski jump.

    If it can't do it with a useful load on board then it matters not whether it can do it or not.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:16 am

    India's military is already garbage from its piss poor maintenance to general lack of integration with having systems from all over.

    Russia won't agree to BrahMos to be used on F-18 so India will be forced to buy more US ammunition.

    And they will gain no Airforce advantage at all from this

    I have to hand it to the Indians. They try to outdo the Saudis in stupidity

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:37 am

    miketheterrible wrote:India's military is already garbage from its piss poor maintenance to general lack of integration with having systems from all over.

    Russia won't agree to BrahMos to be used on F-18 so India will be forced to buy more US ammunition.

    And they will gain no Airforce advantage at all from this

    I have to hand it to the Indians. They try to outdo the Saudis in stupidity

    Gotta get those H1Bs. F*ck the home country.

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