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    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:23 pm

    France, India bolster capabilities in Indian Ocean
    Annual Varuna exercises aimed at China with a focus on ASW
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:13 am

    By the time the Indian Navy put into operation the head submarine of the Scorpene S 50 Kalvari type on December 14, 2017, work under project 75 (the Indian designation of the French project Scorpene), including the construction of six submarines by the Indian state shipbuilding enterprise Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai, already five years behind schedule. Today, when the Indian Navy reported numerous problems with the second submarine of this type S 51 Khanderi (serial number 11876), the project is delayed by another year. Navy countries refuse to enter the Khanderi into service until all its defects and shortcomings are completely eliminated, writes Ajai Shukla in an article for the Indian newspaper "Business Standard".

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3677992.html
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    Post  Pinto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:51 pm

    https://tass.com/defense/1067683
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    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:10 am

    Statistics: the main ship of the Indian Navy as of 07/01/2019

    Indian Navy and Naval Aicraft: News - Page 12 90052_10
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    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:04 pm

    Nilgiri Project 17A Head Frigate Launched in India





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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:00 am

    https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/india-needs-three-aircraft-carriers-says-navy-chief20191203132935/


    India needs three aircraft carriers, says Navy Chief

    03-12-2019
    Indian Navy Chief Admiral Karambir Singh on Tuesday stressed the need for the country to have three aircraft carriers so that two are operational at all times.

    "As Navy Chief I am convinced that
    the country neesds three aircraft carriers so that two are operational at all times. We think they should be 65,000 tons with electromagnetic propulsion"

    He said while addressing the annual Navy Day press conference.
    Navy's plan is to have three aircraft carriers in the fleet  in the long term, said Admiral Karambir Singh.
    The statement by the Navy Chief comes at a time when China has been increasingly expanding its footprints in the Indian Ocean.



    Maybe he meant electromagnetic launching system (EMALS) and nuclear propulsion....

    Btw, coincidentally that would be also the ideal size and number for the Russian Navy as well.

    building a series of 6 ships for two navies (3 ships each) would also allow to spread the development and manufacturing cost.

    Of course there would be some difference between the Russian and the export version, but it would not preclude huge savings by producing them in a serie.

    Maybe Zvezda could build 2 of them at a time...
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:26 pm

    https://mobile.twitter.com/livefist/status/1216006917375643648

    Naval LCA tejas made its first landing on indian carrier.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:26 pm

    Details: https://www.janes.com/article/93655/indian-navy-s-light-combat-aircraft-prototype-makes-first-carrier-landing
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:12 pm

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/f/a-18-super-hornet-is-compatible-with-indian-aircraft-carrier-ski-jump-tests-soon-boeing/articleshow/73983270.cms


    F/A 18 Super Hornet is compatible with Indian aircraft carrier, ski jump tests soon: Boeing


    MANU PUBBY

    ET Bureau | Feb 6, 2020, 04.36 PM IST



    Lucknow: Making a strong pitch for the F/A 18 Super Hornet fighter jets for an upcoming requirement of the Indian Navy, US defence major Boeing has said that the aircraft will soon be tested on a ski jump to demonstrate that its abilities to operate from Indian platforms.

    The Super Hornet, which is by far the most used carrier borne fighter in the world, will be competing with the French Rafale for a requirement of 57 jets for the Navy for its aircraft carrier that is currently under construction at Kochi. The only existing Indian carrier – the INS Vikramaditya – operates the Russian MiG 29 K but the Navy is keen to get a more contemporary jet for future requirements.

    While both France and the US have offered their fighters, the key issue is that the western jets are designed to operate from a flat deck with the assistance of a catapult. The Indian ships do not have the catapult and rely on a ski jump for take-off.


    To overcome this, Boeing says that it will prove that the Super Hornet can operate from a ski jump by conducting physical tests. Sources said that the tests could be carried out a shore based facility in Maryland in the coming months.

    “The F/A-18, on offer to the Indian Navy, is fully compatible with Indian Navy carriers and will boost the growing maritime and defence relationship between the United States and Indian navies,” Boeing says.

    France is also pitching the fighter jet as a contender for the Indian Navy’s, pointing to operations against ISIS using the Rafale. French industry has pitched that the jet can be easily integrated onboard the aircraft carrier under construction at Cochin Shipyard Ltd.


    Several rounds of talks had taken place with the Indian Navy regarding the requirement of 57 jets but the formal acquisition process is yet to start. While the navy has used Russian MiG 29 K jets till now, it wants to progress to a new aircraft due to several technical problems with the fleet.

    Both the F/A 18 and Rafale Marine fighter jets have been operating from aircraft carriers but are rigged for catapult launches. Extensive tests and software analysis have been conducted by the French and US companies to show that they can operate with a meaningful load from ski-jump carriers.

    is still unclear how the Indian side will categorise the purchase--as a direct foreign purchase or with an offset clause that mandates a proportion of the manufacturing will have to be domestic.


    Still I don't understand how this will
    be a better choice than the mig29k.

    Mig29k is not less modern than the  f18, it is already proven in this role and can already be assembled in India. In addition it would be much more simpler from a logistical point of view, taking into account the current fleet and the possible acquisition of mig35 for the airforce. If India wants and pays for it, it can also get the same avionics and advanced radars of the mig35.

    If there were problems with mig29 availability it was due to indian mistakes and lack of spare parts, but if they don't pay for them and do not order them in time this is not Russia's fault.

    In addition i believe there were issues with the quality of some parts assembled in india in conparison with the same parts sourced directly from Russia.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:56 pm

    USA trying to offload thier old jet designs to India to get the big bucks from the dumb Indians.

    Lets see if the Indians are as stupid as they usually are in their procurements.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:21 pm

    I doubt the Indians will order any F-18E/Fs- they r bigger than MiG-29Ks; the decks/lifts on IN CVs will be too small to accommodate as many of them/at all.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet#Specifications_(F/A-18E/F)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29K#Specifications_(MiG-29K)

    Also, bringing their big & heavy engines may not be possible with current Indian COD aircrafts. Besides a higher American price, pilots & maintenance crews will need to be trained, & parts ordered as well &/ produced in India, which uses the metric system.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_India

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:38 am

    The Hornet is an older design than the Fulcrum... why are they talking about wanting a newer design?

    The US will cheat to make their plane look more appealing, and once they have made the sale and the contract is signed the prices will go up and the performance will not be what they expected...

    Interesting they are not even considering the F-35 as it would not even need cats and should in theory be ideal... except that in practise they are not that great...
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    Post  jhelb on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:07 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I doubt the Indians will order any F-18E/Fs- they r bigger than MiG-29Ks; the decks/lifts on IN CVs will be too small to accommodate as many of them/at all.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet#Specifications_(F/A-18E/F)



    GarryB wrote:The Hornet is an older design than the Fulcrum... why are they talking about wanting a newer design?


    The Indian media is filled up with journalists who are on the payrolls of US government. Naturally they will write stuff that are pro US.

    What Russia should do is hire similar mercenaries across India (it's a third world country with a massive population of unemployed people, so hiring people will not be a problem) by the droves, whose only job will be to write stories about how massively US, EU weapons failed are failing in wars across Middle East and elsewhere.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:34 pm

    In the meanwhile...

    https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2020/2/12/14680/

    Russia waits request for delivery MiG-29K fighters for India's Vikrant

    Russian Aviaton » Wednesday February 12, 2020 12:39 MSK

    Russia has not yet received any requests from India for the delivery of a new batch of MiG-29K deck-based fighters for the Indian-made aircraft carrier Vikrant, a source in the aircraft-building industry told TASS on Wednesday.

    Russia earlier provided all the necessary information to the Indian side on a possible contract, the source specified.

    As the Indian newspaper, The Financial Express, reported earlier, citing India’s Defense Minister Sripad Naik, the wait for the country’s first indigenous aircraft carrier Vikrant has been extended "due to issues with the delivery of aviation equipment from Russia."

    "Russia is waiting for a request from the Indian Defense Ministry for the delivery of deck-based MiG-29K fighters for the Vikrant. That is why, it is not quite correct to claim that the delivery of the aircraft carrier to the Indian Navy is being delayed because of Russia," the source stressed.


    The Indian side has not yet issued even a call to bid in a tender for the supply of deck-based aircraft, although the Indian side made the relevant inquiry back in 2017. On Russia’s behalf, the state arms seller Rosoboronexport will take part in the tender, the source said.

    According to India’s plans, the light aircraft carrier Vikrant is due to be delivered to the Indian Navy in March 2021. The warship is expected to carry up to 14 MiG-29K fighters and several helicopters. Russia earlier delivered a batch of MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB fighter aircraft for the Indian aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (the former heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Gorshkov).
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    Post  Isos on Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:59 pm

    Usual bullshit from corrupted indian newspaper. They are so stupid that they can't even use a phone and ask if their MoD has ordered the migs.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:04 pm

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    Post  Sujoy on Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:14 pm

    Russian 91RE1 & 91RTE2 and the American cancelled RUM-125 (Sea Lance) plus ASROC etc are similar in concept to India's supersonic missile assisted release torpedo or SMART.

    However, DRDO says SMART is primarily meant for anti submarine warfare and can target enemy submarines from 650 kms away. Question is from 650 kms away how exactly an accurate DATUM (location) of a hostile submarine is acquired?  

    The real-time DATUM is mostly supplied by either towed-array active/passive sonar or dunking sonar or air-delivered sonobuoy patterns (all of which can detect underwater vehicles out to a distance of between 16nm & 5nm). Within a minute, a missile or 2 missiles each containing a LWT is launched towards the DATUM. The LWT typically has an underwater cruising range of 20km while its acoustic seeker has a range of less than 500 metres

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:49 am

    Russian 91RE1 & 91RTE2 and the American cancelled RUM-125 (Sea Lance) plus ASROC etc are similar in concept to India's supersonic missile assisted release torpedo or SMART.

    However, DRDO says SMART is primarily meant for anti submarine warfare and can target enemy submarines from 650 kms away. Question is from 650 kms away how exactly an accurate DATUM (location) of a hostile submarine is acquired?

    The reason the Sea Lance was cancelled and they just kept using the ASCROC (ship launched) and SUBROC (sub launched) missiles was because Soviet and Russian subs were getting too quiet to detect from the ranges the Sea Lance could reach.

    The only real advantage to having such long range ballistic or cruise missile torpedo carrying missiles is to optimise use of anti sub helicopters or drones, so you could send drones or ASW helicopters out to search for subs and if they found them the target information can be sent to the ship the drone or helicopter operates from. I means the helicopters or drones can be much smaller and lighter because they don't have to carry torpedoes around the place... just a dipping sonar...

    The LWT typically has an underwater cruising range of 20km while its acoustic seeker has a range of less than 500 metres

    The light weight torpedo the 91RE missiles carries is the APR-3ME... its range is not given in the information I have but its sonar can detect targets to 2.5km range...

    These are very potent weapons... their flight through the air can't be detected by the target sub so the first warning the sub gets that it is under attack is the splash of the torpedo into the water less than 2km or so from its position most likely...

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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:These are very potent weapons... their flight through the air can't be detected by the target sub so the first warning the sub gets that it is under attack is the splash of the torpedo into the water less than 2km or so from its position most likely...
    The real-time DATUM is mostly supplied by either towed-array active/passive sonar or dunking sonar or air-delivered sonobuoy patterns (all of which can detect underwater vehicles out to a distance of between 16nm & 5nm). Within a minute, a missile or 2 missiles each containing a LWT is launched towards the DATUM.

    So for weapons like 91RE or DRDO's SMART from where will the torpedo get the DATUM from? Helicopters, Anti sub aircraft like P8 will probably be within the missile envelope of the various enemy ships. So they can't loiter around for too long. Drones unless they are MQ-4C Triton types simply don't have the endurance for anti sub warfare.

    The torpedo will have to splash a few meters from the submarine. If it lands 1-2 kms away, the submarine will detect it and will evade it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:53 am

    The torpedo will have to splash a few meters from the submarine. If it lands 1-2 kms away, the submarine will detect it and will evade it.

    If that were true why does the Indian LWT have a range of 20km?

    These torpedos move fast... the Russian one moves at 130km/h... but when it splashes down it will descend through the water in a big spiral constantly turning around and around looking for the target.. probably initially with passive sonar but with active sonar pings if it finds nothing after a short period....

    So for weapons like 91RE or DRDO's SMART from where will the torpedo get the DATUM from?

    The 91RE missiles are carried on subs and ships of the Russian Navy, but the torpedos can be carried by Helix type helicopters but also MPA aircraft like Il-38 and Tu-142 aircraft and likely the new MPA aircraft as well.

    The data used to find the subs to launch attacks at can come from sea bed laid sonar arrays in Russian territory and also by ships and subs and aircraft dropping disposable sonobuoys, as well as helicopters and drones with dipping sonar.

    I suspect the range of the 91RE missiles was limited to about 50km because the chance of detecting enemy subs at greater distances is pretty low... the missiles themselves are designed to be launched from torpedo tubes, so a longer ranged model should be fairly easy to develop to launch from standard UKSK launch tubes if they wanted to of course.

    BTW subs can dodge torpedoes like humans can dodge bullets... ie only in movies.

    An airplane has large control surfaces and is usually moving slow enough to make super hard turns compared with an air to air missile which basically flies straight able to veer one way or another a bit to get a hit... but certainly not able to match turns with a fighter aircraft.

    A submarine is more like trying to out manouver a motorbike in a container ship.

    During WWII with straight running dumb torpedoes you might position your sub so they don't hit you... ie turn towards or away from them to present a small target and then hope you are in a gap... but modern torpedoes are guided and can easily out manouver something the size of a submarine.

    The only sub with any chance of dodging or evading torpedos was the Alfa class that was almost as fast or faster than most enemy torpedoes and could dive to much deeper depths too... otherwise you can't... you can launch decoys and jammers or Paket torpedos to intercept... but it is high stress stuff...

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    Post  Sujoy on Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The data used to find the subs to launch attacks at can come from sea bed laid sonar arrays in Russian territory and also by ships and subs and aircraft dropping disposable sonobuoys, as well as helicopters and drones with dipping sonar.

    I suspect the range of the 91RE missiles was limited to about 50km because the chance of detecting enemy subs at greater distances is pretty low... the missiles themselves are designed to be launched from torpedo tubes, so a longer ranged model should be fairly easy to develop to launch from standard UKSK launch tubes if they wanted to of course.
    That's why I find DRDO's claim that their new anti sub weapon SMART (modeled on the 91RE of course) has a range of 650 kms quite bizarre.

    From 650 kms away how are they going to locate an enemy sub? I'm assuming they are talking of enemy SSN, SSBNs and not SSKs. SSKs generally operate from friendly waters. Be that as it may, 650kms range for an anti sub weapon is unheard of.

    Some Indian Navy officials are of the opinion that anti sub warfare aircraft and helos can pick up the DATUM of an enemy sub and pass that onto Indian frigates, destroyers who can then launch S.M.A.R.T from as far as 650 kms away.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:47 pm

    If there is a ship nearby that detect the sub at lets say 30km away but is out of ASW ammo it can give the data to a ship that is 300km away that can target it in less than 20 minutes.

    India is short on UKSK cells. Its destroyer carry only 16 and they need lot of antiship brahmos and some land attack brahmos letting very little space for ASW.
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    Post  Sujoy on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:28 pm

    Isos wrote:If there is a ship nearby that detect the sub at lets say 30km away but is out of ASW ammo it can give the data to a ship that is 300km away that can target it in less than 20 minutes.

    India is short on UKSK cells. Its destroyer carry only 16 and they need lot of antiship brahmos and some land attack brahmos letting very little space for ASW.
    That's probably the only justification for a 650 kms range - compensating the lack of enough UKSK cells. So if an Indian Navy ship can pick up the DATUM of an enemy sub they can send those co-ordinates to their missile coastal battery unit who can then launch these S.M.A.R.T anti torpedo weapons.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:37 pm

    They can also create a SOSUS like system of underwater sonars to have 24/7 ability to detect subs and use coastal missile to destroy them. That's much faster than sending a patrol aircraft.

    That would also deny the area to enemy subs launching cruise missiles so that they would need to launch further away. Then it will also pick up the missile launch acting like an early warning system and allowing to send fighter to destroy them. Missile booster make a huge noise easy to pick up.
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    Post  Sujoy on Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:28 pm

    Isos wrote:They can also create a SOSUS like system of underwater sonars to have 24/7 ability to detect subs and use coastal missile to destroy them. That's much faster than sending a  patrol aircraft.

    That would also deny the area to enemy subs launching cruise missiles so that they would need to launch further away. Then it will also pick up the missile launch acting like an early warning system and allowing to send fighter to destroy them. Missile booster make a huge noise easy to pick up.
    A skeletal SOSUS does exist but nowhere as extensive as that of Russia or US. Chinese SSNs will probably stay outside the radius of such a SOSUS and launch long range cruise missiles at Indian targets.

    Re lack of UKSK cells on Indian frigates, destroyers I'm not sure why the Indian Navy settles for such mediocre designs. China's Type 055 destroyers have 112 VLS. Even frigates being built for India in Russia like the Kirak -IV class have too few UKSK cells. This despite the fact that Russian destroyers like Udaloy have 64 UKSK cells and Kirov class have 174 UKSK cells.

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