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Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

flamming_python

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Post n°226

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

flamming_python Mon May 16, 2022 1:24 am

Pacense wrote:
Bringing those breakways territorys in to Russia, will only erode Russia. None has a Russian majority population. There is no enthusiasm fom the part of the Russia population on that as well. Besides the Russia budget can't cope with such an effort.

Both Abkazhia and South Ossetia should give away some villages to Georgia, in exchange of its independence recongniztion from Georgia itself. Shoould they join Russia? Not at all.

Ukraine, will be an EU member in the future. Given the chhange they won't thinl twice.

There isn't any choice when it comes to the Ukraine. It's a permanently hostile ultra-nationalist state otherwise, with neither its regime nor its Western backers in any mind to do a deal with Russia as the failure of the Minsk agreements over 8 years, and then the Istanbul talks have shown. So it will be incorporated into Russia or made into some sort of dependency with nominal independence.

Pridnestrovie is very much pro-Russian, even if the population is ethnically split between Russians, Ukrainians and Moldovans 3 ways. It would love to become part of Russia. But it will accept merging back into Moldova too if Moldova adopts a pro-Russian trajectory, so that's an option as well.

South Ossetia - wants nothing more than to join Russia and merge into North Ossetia as a single federal subject. I don't know if it's the best idea strategically, especially as Georgia is making a genuine effort to stick to neutrality over the crisis - but then if Russia is going for it then its going for it. If it's a pressure tactic against Georgia than it has probably gone too far already, they're gearing up for a referendum on joining Russia in June over in South Ossetia.

Abkhazia won't join Russia as a federal subject, they have no mind to do that. They can create a union with Georgia in the future maybe, or stay independent.

The Russian budget is not going to be any better off paying for all these territories as things are anyway; they're already dependent on the Russian budget as things stand.

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Pacense

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Post n°227

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Pacense Mon May 16, 2022 1:47 am

flamming_python wrote:

Pacense wrote:
Bringing those breakways territorys in to Russia, will only erode Russia. None has a Russian majority population. There is no enthusiasm fom the part of the Russia population on that as well. Besides the Russia budget can't cope with such an effort.

Both Abkazhia and South Ossetia should give away some villages to Georgia, in exchange of its independence recongniztion from Georgia itself. Shoould they join Russia? Not at all.

Ukraine, will be an EU member in the future. Given the chhange they won't thinl twice.

There isn't any choice when it comes to the Ukraine. It's a permanently hostile ultra-nationalist state otherwise, with neither its regime nor its Western backers in any mind to do a deal with Russia as the failure of the Minsk agreements over 8 years, and then the Istanbul talks have shown. So it will be incorporated into Russia or made into some sort of dependency with nominal independence.

Pridnestrovie is very much pro-Russian, even if the population is ethnically split between Russians, Ukrainians and Moldovans 3 ways. It would love to become part of Russia. But it will accept merging back into Moldova too if Moldova adopts a pro-Russian trajectory, so that's an option as well.

South Ossetia - wants nothing more than to join Russia and merge into North Ossetia as a single federal subject. I don't know if it's the best idea strategically, especially as Georgia is making a genuine effort to stick to neutrality over the crisis - but then if Russia is going for it then its going for it. If it's a pressure tactic against Georgia than it has probably gone too far already, they're gearing up for a referendum on joining Russia in June over in South Ossetia.

Abkhazia won't join Russia as a federal subject, they have no mind to do that. They can create a union with Georgia in the future maybe, or stay independent.

The Russian budget is not going to be any better off paying for all these territories as things are anyway; they're already dependent on the Russian budget as things stand.

War is lost in Ukraine. I think its already a fact now. By summer time most territories will be recover by Ukraine. Only the status of the donbass will be up for discussion. Crimea will probably stay in Russia, there is no strong desire from Ukraine leadership to fight for it. All and all, both sides must move on and come to an agreement.

Moldova wiil join EU. After that can't see how Transnitria wont want to go in as well. Its such a magnet for people. Its an exclave with such a weird shape, and a mix bag of population with Russia percentage population doomed to decline over time.

South Ossetia might want to become a federal subject. But again whats is the plus for Russia? Another Chechnya do drag down the budget? I agree thats already dependent on Russia. But like...forever?

Good for Abkhazia if it wants to become independent. Sould be welcome in the community of nations. Hope tehy can reach an agreement with Georgia. They both need each other for sure.

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flamming_python

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Post n°228

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

flamming_python Mon May 16, 2022 1:57 am

Pacense wrote:War is lost in Ukraine. I think its already a fact now. By summer time most territories will be recover by Ukraine. Only the status of the donbass will be up for discussion. Crimea will probably stay in Russia, there is no strong desire from Ukraine leadership to fight for it. All and all, both sides must move on and come to an agreement.

It's a fact only where you live I suspect

War is lost in the Ukraine for the West, hence why Biden was deliberating about how Russia is going to for a win a week ago, while Austin was making a call to Shoigu about the need for a ceasefire. They're looking for a way out. But there is no way out. All Russian objectives will be achieved and the Ukraine has pretty much run out of equipment, supplies and professionally trained troops to resist anything.

Moldova wiil join EU. After that can't see how Transnitria wont want to go in as well. Its such a magnet for people. But cant see how Russia will look at it with good eyes. Its an exclave with such a weird shape, and a mix bag of population with Russia percentage population doomed to decline over time.

Moldova is split down the middle in sympathies but what helps the pro-Russians is that the anti-Russians tend to buzz off to Italy, Romania, Spain, Germany and other countries to work or settle down outright. The pro-Russians tend to stay with some seasonal trading or work in Russia or the Ukraine.

Pridnestrovie is a firmly Russian-identity region and its ethnic composition is not that relevant. The Ukrainians there have little in common with those brainwashed by the Banderite regime next door.
They don't want to join the EU any more than Russians do. The EU is an anti-Russian entity to its core. It's good for all Europeans but Russians - who it oppresses and always has by its support of anti-Russian nationalist regimes in Eastern Europe, and even directly in the Baltic States where citizenship has been withheld from them.
Not everything is measured in material wealth. Besides which the EU won't be doing too good over the coming years anyway bereft of cheap Russian resources.
Russia, nor Russians will join the EU. They will bury it.

South Ossetia might want to become a federl subject. But again whats is the plus for Russia? Another Chechnya do drag down the budget?

Standing up for one's own people. Because the Ossetians are our people.
I don't see any alternative honestly. They're too small for independence by themselves. They don't want to become part of Georgia, they're a people split in two parts and want to reunite.

Good for Abkhazia if it wants to become independent. Sould be welcome in the community of nations. Hope tehy can reach an agreement with Georgia. They both need each other for sure.

Up to them. They like Russia but they don't want to become part of it, a little bit of historic wariness due to the 19th century Russian conquest of the Caucasus and brutal treatment of their Circassian kin next door. They prefer the freedom to make all their own laws and decisions. Fair enough.

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flamming_python

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Post n°229

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

flamming_python Mon May 16, 2022 3:48 am

Yeah the Portuguese who declared the war lost for Russia already, that if we're lucky we'll get to keep Crimea and only because the Ukrainian cyborgs aren't prepared to contest it too hard - has surprised me in this thread lol1

All sorts of hidden Ukros emerging from the shadows in this forum over the past couple of months I'll tell you that much

I get the impression that all this psychological bullshit, whether from Western governments or media or random forum punters is all predicated on Russians being a bunch of wimps and running away in terror, being demoralized, surrendering en masse, dying in droves, begging their government to end the war when it doesn't go well, etc...
Good lord. You guys don't get it. None of that applies when a block of countries decide to try and cancel us as a people and declare their intention to destroy us through the use of another country, that they've loaded with nationalist ideology and fortifications over the past 8 years. That shit your countries will have to answer for. And if we're taking our time, then that's because it's the approach that benefits Russia at the moment. Buying time for mobilization of industries, reserves, the political situation, or minimizing casualties or whatever else.

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ALAMO

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Post n°230

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

ALAMO Mon May 16, 2022 8:17 am

flamming_python wrote:Yeah the Portuguese who declared the war lost for Russia already, that if we're lucky we'll get to keep Crimea and only because the Ukrainian cyborgs aren't prepared to contest it too hard - has surprised me in this thread

The last time I have seen the Ukrocyborgs, they were busy fertilizing the land with their own corpses. Most of them have been already separated to pieces, to make the fertilization more effective, while the others were already covered with a nice layer of earth.

flamming_python wrote:
All sorts of hidden Ukros emerging from the shadows in this forum over the past couple of months I'll tell you that much
I get the impression that all this psychological bullshit, whether from Western governments or media or random forum punters is all predicated on Russians being a bunch of wimps and running away in terror, being demoralized, surrendering en masse, dying in droves, begging their government to end the war when it doesn't go well, etc...
Good lord. You guys don't get it. None of that applies when a block of countries decide to try and cancel us as a people and declare their intention to destroy us through the use of another country, that they've loaded with nationalist ideology and fortifications over the past 8 years. That shit your countries will have to answer for. And if we're taking our time, then that's because it's the approach that benefits Russia at the moment. Buying time for mobilization of industries, reserves, the political situation, or minimizing casualties or whatever else.

Well, I will tell you honestly, that I am not surprised much.
This is really what is being told to the public here.
Polish media just translate the official materials they have from Ukrops.
There is not a single spark of intellect in that.
They really present materials that have been proven false two-three days ago, as actual facts&situation.
Kramatorsk is still an act of Russian bestiality, even if the Ukros don't dare to push that agenda officially anymore.
Stories about Russian rapes are just part of the show.
My friend was excited a few days ago, as he has found "a list of tortures that Russians apply to the prisoners".
This is like a story with the Crimean Bridge.
Nobody who is sane will understand that.
How is it possible, that someone dares to fool the whole nation, in official media, and easy to check things?
Are all Ukrainians stupid? Well, of course not!
But if propaganda is so intense and hard - it really makes people wonder.
If someone is telling you, that the sky is green - it is bullshit. But as you are being told that from all the sources surrounding, there will be a moment when you will start to wonder, if you are right ...
There is no other agenda in the whole of Europe, at least western one.
A huge offensive is on it's way in Kharkov area. Russkies are bleeding in Dobnass. They don't have fuel. Lacking supply. Need to steal the food from the locals. Mariopol is holding, hero defenders are covering civilians with own bodies, asking for evacuation of the innocents.
Snake Island is being retaken by the brave Ukrocyborgs. They have killed and destroyed half of the Russian army there. The other half is destroyed at this ponton bridge, as they tried human waves tactic to overwhelm the brave Ukrocyborgs defense. The Russian fleet is gone either, one ship per day. They have no choppers left, Ka-52 is being blown out of the sky in dozens, by the mighdy Starstreak system. And Javelins are annihilating every Russkie armor in sight. That is why they don't have armor either. Only few planes are left. But it is only a matter of time. Hey, a Moscow offensive will be in August, this is what you can hear here. Hurray!

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flamming_python

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Post n°231

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

flamming_python Mon May 16, 2022 8:26 am

That is honestly depressing

That people have literally no critical thinking skills and are prepared to believe the insane Ukro crap just because it suits them

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GarryB

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Post n°232

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

GarryB Mon May 16, 2022 8:57 am

Bringing those breakways territorys in to Russia, will only erode Russia. None has a Russian majority population. There is no enthusiasm fom the part of the Russia population on that as well. Besides the Russia budget can't cope with such an effort.

Russia can rebuild worn out infrastructure and plan and manage budgets and assets... these people put up with Nazis in charge for 8 years that treated them like meat shields when push comes to shove... when the elderly get their pensions paid and the young get jobs and education, perhaps it wont all be so bad.

Both Abkazhia and South Ossetia should give away some villages to Georgia, in exchange of its independence recongniztion from Georgia itself.

Why give up anything at all?

They can choose to join the Russian Federation or not... not a big deal, but their trade will be mostly through Russia so they will remain friendly and could probably have Russian bases on their territory if they want.

Ukraine, will be an EU member in the future. Given the chhange they won't think twice.

Your confidence is amusing... the west sharpened them up into a weapon to use against Russia... what other future could they possibly see for themselves... with the EU whispering in their ears...

There is no other agenda in the whole of Europe, at least western one.

It is the only part of the war they can win, because it is totally meaningless on the ground like the status of Crimea for instance... the west won that one too... Russia took the place by force... Annexed it without permission from the land owner Kiev.... so it is totally illegitimate... you know... like Israel annexing the Golan Heights from Syria which is perfectly legal it seems.

That people have literally no critical thinking skills and are prepared to believe the insane Ukro crap just because it suits them

They believe what they are told... which is fine because their beliefs don't really matter much... most are going to be thinking about rent increases and price of food increases and how much for fuel????

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ALAMO

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Post n°233

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

ALAMO Mon May 16, 2022 9:17 am

GarryB wrote:

That people have literally no critical thinking skills and are prepared to believe the insane Ukro crap just because it suits them

They believe what they are told... which is fine because their beliefs don't really matter much... most are going to be thinking about rent increases and price of food increases and how much for fuel????

Well, that is because people look for a kind of anchor, to settle their own opinions on the matter.
Poland is Russophobic to the limit of a national obsession, and at the same time, Poles are busy translating everyone that being named Russophobes is a Russian fake. That is why antiRussian hysteria hit a fertile soil here, and grows beautifully.
People don't care about the facts, as long as the story suits them - just like FP said.
Now, trying to argue in such conditions, puts one into a lost cause position - nobody will share the opinion. At least officially.
A friend of mine was spreading shit like "it is good they are killing POWs, they deserve it!". A guy is a 6th Airborne vet, so I have asked him kindly, does he realizes, how many of our colleagues are now in 404, and if he would like to apply the solution to them as well, knowing that they are not protected by the Geneva convention anyway?
That put him in some kind of shock, but hardly believe it changed his optics by an inch.
People really believe in that crap, as it fits the decades-long pushed agenda.
How much critical thinking one would expect from a society brainwashed enough, that really believed that Russia is a gas station? Laughing

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lancelot

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Post n°234

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

lancelot Mon May 16, 2022 10:26 am

flamming_python wrote:That is honestly depressing
That people have literally no critical thinking skills and are prepared to believe the insane Ukro crap just because it suits them

How many of those billions the US is spending on "countering Russian propaganda" do you think go into the pockets of those journalists passing their narrative. And mind you that is the white budget. Probably a lot more money being spent on the black one.

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Pacense

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Post n°235

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Pacense Mon May 16, 2022 11:24 am

flamming_python wrote:Yeah the Portuguese who declared the war lost for Russia already, that if we're lucky we'll get to keep Crimea and only because the Ukrainian cyborgs aren't prepared to contest it too hard - has surprised me in this thread

All sorts of hidden Ukros emerging from the shadows in this forum over the past couple of months I'll tell you that much

I get the impression that all this psychological bullshit, whether from Western governments or media or random forum punters is all predicated on Russians being a bunch of wimps and running away in terror, being demoralized, surrendering en masse, dying in droves, begging their government to end the war when it doesn't go well, etc...
Good lord. You guys don't get it. None of that applies when a block of countries decide to try and cancel us as a people and declare their intention to destroy us through the use of another country, that they've loaded with nationalist ideology and fortifications over the past 8 years. That shit your countries will have to answer for. And if we're taking our time, then that's because it's the approach that benefits Russia at the moment. Buying time for mobilization of industries, reserves, the political situation, or minimizing casualties or whatever else.

First off, I'm Portuguese with a Russian son. No link to Ukraine at all. We all seem to have critical thinking here. I ususally confront information from several sources. So I really do my due diigence Wink

I stand for what I wrote before. Ukraine is not going to give up any territory, and is not going to fell in Russia political structures. But time will tell which one of us is right.

GarryB

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Post n°236

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

GarryB Mon May 16, 2022 12:08 pm

How much critical thinking one would expect from a society brainwashed enough, that really believed that Russia is a gas station

For Russia the best thing is that western opinions of them mean nothing, so if they want to hate Russia and Russians then that is OK... cutting ties and relations is the best solution for now... maybe they might grow up and maybe not... no real loss for Russia.

Continuing to try to win them over would be futile and frankly embarrassing.

How many of those billions the US is spending on "countering Russian propaganda" do you think go into the pockets of those journalists passing their narrative. And mind you that is the white budget. Probably a lot more money being spent on the black one.

When you can just print more it is easy to hand out to anyone and everyone, but what they don't realising is that pushing Russia away from the west is adding Russia and China to the rest of the world... a world that supports the US by using US dollars for trade... giving them alternative trade partners that don't want US dollars might shift things to the point where the money stops being free and easy to give away because it is worthless... how will they bribe then?

Ukraine is not going to give up any territory, and is not going to fell in Russia political structures. But time will tell which one of us is right.

Crimea is already lost so they already have given up territory, and after shelling the Donbass and Lugansk regions for the last 8 years claiming the residents there are Russian invaders I suspect they will want to join the Russian Federation too.

The Ukraine is a very messed up country that the west has broken and damaged and they have done some terrible things there... all as flamebait to get the Russians to bite... well they have bitten and I doubt they are going to tollerate anything that could turn back to what it was.

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Hole

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Post n°237

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:51 pm

The regime in Kiev/Lviv may say that they never give up territory. But look at the facts. They stopped paying pensions or providing any services to the people in Donetsk and Lugansk and Crimea. They did the same immediately as the Kherson region and cities like Melitopol were liberated by Russian Forces. Why? If they claim this are there people, they have to do anything to support them. Why should a "ukrainian" pensioner who is "stuck" in Kherson starve to death because he has no money? The fact is that the regime in Kiev/Lviv doesn´t bother for the people.

Sidenote: the Assad government never stopped paying state workers and pensioners. It kept the whole system running even in places like Raqqa or Idlib.

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Hole

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Post n°238

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Hole Mon May 16, 2022 1:56 pm

Sweden and Finland accession to NATO - Page 10 Fs3a7r10

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Kiko

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Post n°239

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 3:11 pm

The Kremlin explained the difference between the entry into NATO of Finland and Ukraine, by Olga Ivanova for VZGLYAD. 16.05.2022.

The potential entry of Ukraine into NATO could lead to a territorial dispute between Russia and a state that is part of the alliance, said Dmitry Peskov, a spokesman for the Russian President.

“We have no territorial disputes with either Finland or Sweden, while Ukraine could potentially become a NATO member, and then Russia would have a territorial dispute with a state that participates in the alliance,” TASS quotes him .

Earlier, the Foreign Ministry urged not to count on Russia's acceptance of the entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO.

Finland and Sweden are expected to apply for NATO membership in the middle of this week. Russia warned that the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO would make these countries potential targets.

Russia launched a military special operation in Ukraine on February 24. Russian leader Vladimir Putin noted that Moscow's plans do not include the occupation of the territories of Ukraine, the goal is the denazification and demilitarization of the country. Also, a number of political conditions were put forward to the Kiev authorities - the legislative consolidation of the non-bloc status of Ukraine with a complete ban on the deployment of NATO military bases and strike weapons systems on its territory, the trial of Nazi criminals who have committed crimes against citizens of Ukraine and Donbass in recent years, the recognition of Crimea as Russian, and DPR and LPR are independent states.

https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/16/1158653.html

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walle83

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Post n°240

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

walle83 Mon May 16, 2022 5:42 pm

flamming_python wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Kiko wrote:With Ukraine and Belarus in a great Motherland concept in exchange of US' grab of Swedes and Finns is ultimately a big win for Russia.
Next step is long-range Tu-95 and -160 bombers exercises in the Caribbean area as a previous Kinzhal salvo launches exercise in the Arctic.

Ukraine doesnt seem to want to join that "great motherland" if you noticed.

Doesn't matter, they'll be dragged by the hair kicking and screaming into Russia, demilitarized and denazified in the process.

Somehow I doubt that very much. As things are going Russia should be happy if they can keep Dunbas.

Kiko

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Post n°241

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 8:31 pm

Turkey opposes Finland and Sweden in NATO– Erdogan

https://www.rt.com/news/555584-turkey-no-to-finland-sweden-nato/

George1

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Post n°242

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

George1 Mon May 16, 2022 10:47 pm

Kiko wrote:Turkey opposes Finland and Sweden in NATO– Erdogan

https://www.rt.com/news/555584-turkey-no-to-finland-sweden-nato/

Lets see if he will go until the end

Kiko

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Post n°243

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 11:21 pm

George1 wrote:

Kiko wrote:Turkey opposes Finland and Sweden in NATO– Erdogan

https://www.rt.com/news/555584-turkey-no-to-finland-sweden-nato/

Lets see if he will go until the end

I understand your feelings towards Turkey and Turcs. However, this time it seems true and definitive.

Erdogan: Turkey cannot say yes to Finland and Sweden's NATO membership, 16.05.2022.

Erdogan says Turkey cannot say yes to Finland and Sweden's NATO membership.

ANKARA, May 16 - RIA Novosti. Turkey cannot say "yes" to the membership of Finland and Sweden in NATO, said President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

"Then NATO will not be a security organization, but will become a place where there will be many representatives of terrorists. We cannot say yes, let them not be offended," the Turkish leader said at a briefing on Monday.

According to him, "Sweden is a hotbed of terrorism, they have terrorists of the Kurdistan Workers' Party in their parliament (banned in Turkey . - Approx. ed.)". Even if Stockholm and Helsinki make anti-terrorism statements, Ankara cannot believe them, Erdogan added.

He also advised the delegations of Sweden and Finland , who will arrive in the country on Monday for talks, "not to bother."
According to the Turkish leadership, the two Scandinavian countries are not extraditing members of the organization of the Islamic preacher Fethullah Gülen ( FETO) and the Kurdistan Workers' Party to Turkey . Because of this, Ankara cannot look positively at the entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO.

The possibility of abandoning long-term neutrality and joining the alliance in Helsinki and Stockholm was discussed after the start of the Russian special military operation to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine . Russia has repeatedly stated that NATO aims at confrontation. According to the press secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov , the entry of Finland and Sweden into the organization "is unlikely to somehow strengthen and improve the security architecture on our continent."

https://ria.ru/20220516/nato-1788896355.html

walle83

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Post n°244

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

walle83 Mon May 16, 2022 11:37 pm

George1 wrote:

Kiko wrote:Turkey opposes Finland and Sweden in NATO– Erdogan

https://www.rt.com/news/555584-turkey-no-to-finland-sweden-nato/

Lets see if he will go until the end

The pressure from the US, UK, Germany ecs will be hard.

Erdogan wants to make a point about the PKK, it will soon pass.

George1

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Post n°245

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

George1 Tue May 17, 2022 12:58 am

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1526290137990111232

walle83

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Post n°246

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

walle83 Wed May 18, 2022 12:18 pm

Sweden and Finland today officially applied to become members of Nato.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sverige-och-finland-har-lamnat-in-ansokan-om-natomedlemskap
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12440949

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lancelot

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Post n°247

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

lancelot Wed May 18, 2022 12:43 pm

walle83 wrote:Sweden and Finland today officially applied to become members of Nato.

Great Swedes. Now send your useless Gripen fighters to Ukraine and buy some F-35s. kthx.

franco

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Post n°248

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

franco Wed May 18, 2022 2:39 pm

Finland and Sweden military strengths:

https://twitter.com/colonelhomsi/status/1526685315955564544/photo/1

walle83

walle83: Posts : 967
Points : 975
Join date : 2016-11-13
Location : Sweden

Post n°249

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

walle83 Wed May 18, 2022 5:19 pm

franco wrote:Finland and Sweden military strengths:

https://twitter.com/colonelhomsi/status/1526685315955564544/photo/1

Eh yeah, about 50% of the numbers there are wrong.

Wikipedia has better "facts" then that Rolling Eyes

Isos

Isos: Posts : 11296
Points : 11266
Join date : 2015-11-07

Post n°250

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Isos Wed May 18, 2022 5:23 pm

walle83 wrote:

franco wrote:Finland and Sweden military strengths:

https://twitter.com/colonelhomsi/status/1526685315955564544/photo/1

Eh yeah, about 50% of the numbers there are wrong.

Wikipedia has better "facts" then that

I agree. They are using nato equipment so half of this is probably not in even servicable due to lack of spare parts.

Most likely they have 20 tanks and 30 jets available at any time.

Russia Defence Forum

Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Re: Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

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