Sweden and Finland accession to NATO

Tell that to the baltics. Saw a interview with primeminster of Lettia I think it was the other day. She wasnt worried about any Russian attack at all. Becaouse she knew that a attack on them would be an attack on the Nato as a whole.

Funny you mention the Baltic. It was none other than the Estonian president Kersti Kaljulaid who called a meeting with Putin and invited Putin to Estonia after it dawned on her that they were being used by DC as a pawn against Russia. Not sure if she's around anymore. Probably not. Because of this

Backman wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Backman wrote:

Battalion0415 wrote:Speciality Swedes need NATO when they have smaller troops near Russia.

It will cost 3 billion euro to join NATO but it's worth every money Sweden give to NATO.

Russia can attack's Sweden about 10 year in future and Sweden need help from outside country.

All help Sweden need to fight back enemies.

The surest way to decrease your security is to become a pawn on Russia's periphery controlled by Washington DC.

Why wouldn't you want to stand on your own feet and deal with Russia yourself ? Like you are doing now.

Tell that to the baltics. Saw a interview with primeminster of Lettia I think it was the other day. She wasnt worried about any Russian attack at all. Becaouse she knew that a attack on them would be an attack on the Nato as a whole.

Funny you mention the Baltic. It was none other than the Estonian president   Kersti Kaljulaid  who called a meeting with Putin and invited Putin to Estonia after it dawned on her that they were being used by DC as a pawn against Russia. Not sure if she's around anymore. Probably not. Because of this

walle83 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

walle83 wrote:

GarryB wrote:Joining HATO would not make them any safer and in fact would greatly worsen relations with Russia... not that they would be too upset about that but especially for Finland there is a bit of trade going over that border that would be effected.

To be clear right now obviously Russia trades with Germany and other HATO members, but they have stated publicly they are not happy with HATO expansion and they want it to stop.

They have not threatened to attack or invade anyone if their interests are ignored... I am pretty sure Finland and Sweden joining HATO would not start WWIII, but Russia would obviously change its relations with all HATO members because they would all have to approve this to allow it to happen, which means they all acted against Russian interests.

Obviously they can do what they like and Russia can't stop them, but there are plenty of things Russia can do, like recognising HATO as a threat to Russian national security and dramatically restrict or even cut ties with its members would be an obvious first step... if HATO wants to make Russia an enemy then they are unlikely to find growth and development and fair trade in that direction, so funding for the navy needs to massively increase and Russia needs to start looking to the rest of the world for trade and development and growth... start working on ties with BRICS countries... maybe add a few more countries to the group... boost trade and cooperation amongst the countries involved, and work towards helping them off their dependence on the west and the international organisations the west controls and misuses and abuses.

It does not surprise me that Sweden and Finland don't want to be cannon fodder for stupid American games.

Obviously they would have joined years ago if they didn't care about their own people and just wanted to please other european powers and the US.

Joining Nato has two sides, yes Russia would probably threaten us more and testing our defences. But at the same time it would take alot more before they would attack for real. Ukraine, Georgia, Kasaksthan is one thing. Doing the same to a full Nato country is something else.

As a Swed myself i can say that 75% of the population dont give the **** about the Russians. Joining Nato I would say is about 50/50. As long as the Socialdemocrats has the power it will not happen however. In 5-10 years who knows.

It will happen I suspect if Washington makes a few phone calls.

Doubt that extremly much, I dont think the Swedish government would dare before having a puplic election. And as it stand today its not a sure thing.

miketheterrible wrote:Wouldn't make much of a difference as ALMOS said.  Finland and Sweden are small and thus iskanders can easily destroy their capabilities.  These nations are just setting themselves up to be countered economically and politically. Mind you, Sweden may not care but Finland will.

flamming_python wrote:Those NATO reconnaissance flights seem to have full reign within Swedish airspace.

walle83 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Those NATO reconnaissance flights seem to have full reign within Swedish airspace.

How so? The only airplane flights over Sweden is the Swedish own S100 and S102.

d_taddei2 wrote:Despite the MOU. I doubt the Finnish and Swedish want poke the Russian bear and at the same time appease NATO members, it's far less hassle to sit your arse on the fence and take a fairly neutral stance. And I think this also plays into hands of the population of these countries who have no appetite for getting into conflicts and hassle on their doorstep or abroad

walle83 wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:Despite the MOU. I doubt the Finnish and Swedish want poke the Russian bear and at the same time appease NATO members, it's far less hassle to sit your arse on the fence and take a fairly neutral stance. And I think this also plays into hands of the population of these countries who have no appetite for getting into conflicts and hassle on their doorstep or abroad

More or less the Swedish gouvernement stand today. We work together with other democratic nations and can perform military exersices with Nato. But we dont want to become a full Nato member.

lancelot wrote:How these people forget. Providing safe passage for military troops of another faction makes you part of their faction.

Isos wrote:

lancelot wrote:How these people forget. Providing safe passage for military troops of another faction makes you part of their faction.

Not only that. Their radars monitor russian activities in the north for NATO.

All the russian tupolev flights are first detected by Sweeden and Finland who serve as early warning bases for Nato.

In case of a war with nato, russia will have to bomb them and since russia can't afford to fight them + nato they will have to use tactical nuks..

Sweeden has more than 100 grippen and finlabd is getting tens of f-35. That's a lot of planes.

walle83 wrote:Putins wish and threat to other european nations not to join Nato seems to have backfired. Finland has never been this positiv to join the allians.



Also in Sweden 50% of the population are positive to joining Nato, that is the highest number ever. There is also a majority in the Riksdag now to join.
The Swedish government however say it has no plans to start talks about joining. The pressure is high though.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/magdalena-andersson-sager-nej-till-nato-medlemskap

flamming_python wrote:

walle83 wrote:Putins wish and threat to other european nations not to join Nato seems to have backfired. Finland has never been this positiv to join the allians.



Also in Sweden 50% of the population are positive to joining Nato, that is the highest number ever. There is also a majority in the Riksdag now to join.
The Swedish government however say it has no plans to start talks about joining. The pressure is high though.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/magdalena-andersson-sager-nej-till-nato-medlemskap

What makes you think he cares or anyone in Russia cares?

That Finnish and Swedish elites will be able to sell and present events to their populations to serve their goals is a given

And this ultimatum was not about Sweden and Finland, who have been effective NATO members for a while now.

It's more to do with the Ukraine, but not only the Ukraine - bringing down the Western unipolar model in general.

Isos wrote:One thing they haven't realized is that Russia doesn't want nato forces next to its vital bases. Finland is at artillery range from Northern fleet's naval bases where half of russian SSBN are... which mens nato could wipe out half of russian naval ballistic missiles with two or three nuclear armed rockets.

That means Russia will need to strike first and no lightly. Those two countries could not exist anymore as soon as they join that alliance.