Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 7642
    Points : 7626
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Isos Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:47 am

    franco wrote:
    Isos wrote:Well no it's the opposite since Russia is upgrading its old smaller systems like tunguska or Osa systems and replacing its S-300 with S-400.

    They have now some 80 S-400.

    80 TEL's or battalions?

    57 battalions in 2019. I guess it increased since then. Maybe 80 is a bit too much.

    Russian wiki says 71 with over 560 TEL.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29853
    Points : 30381
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:39 pm

    The S-500 doesn't really replace anything... it is essentially a brand new ABM system that occupies a SAM position above the S-300V and S-300P and S-300F.

    They are not likely to buy S-500 in enormous numbers... major military installations and major cities might get a few batteries, and of course most of their larger ships... destroyers and cruisers and carriers will likely carry S-500s to protect them from ballistic and hypersonic weapons, but most of the old S-300 systems were between 75km and 120km range systems and it makes sense to simply replace them with the smaller lighter probably cheaper S-350 system, while the S-400 will essentially be the new 250km and 400km range large missiles that will protect certain domestic and foreign bases and facilities like major airfields and bases etc etc.
    Kiko
    Kiko

    Posts : 682
    Points : 698
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 72
    Location : Brasilia

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Kiko Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:20 pm

    S-500 Prometheus: 'Killer of F-35' Has Undergone Combat Missile Trials & is Coming Soon, by Ekaterina Blinova for Sputniknews. 13.07.2021.

    The new generation S-500 Prometheus air defence system developed by the Russian arms company Almaz-Antey, the same group that produced the S-300 and S-400, has successfully completed a series of tests including combat missile launches, according to the Commander of the Missile Defence Troops of the Russian Air Force, Maj. Gen. Sergei Babakov.

    Speaking to the Russian news outlet Krasnaya Zvezda last week, Major General Babakov elaborated that the S-500 has been developed as a completely new generation of anti-aircraft systems aimed at taking down medium-range ballistic missiles, and, if necessary, intercontinental ballistic missiles in the final stage of their flight path. In addition to this, the S-500 is capable of destroying hypersonic aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles, according to him.

    "The S-500 air defence system is capable of destroying hypersonic weapons of all modifications, including in near space, in addition to aerodynamic and ballistic targets, which makes it possible to say with confidence that this system is unique", Maj. Gen. Babakov said.

    Russia's new defence weapon can reportedly engage enemy ballistic missiles at a range of up to 600 kilometres and aircraft at about 500 kilometres.

    The military official explained that the combat drills involved firing at targets possessing technical specifications similar to modern aerospace attack weapons or those with more advanced capabilities.

    According to the major general, anti-aircraft missile crews hone their skills by intercepting both small-sized, low-flying, low-speed objects that mimic unmanned aerial vehicles and high-altitude, high-speed targets that mimic hypersonic missiles.

    Moreover, the Russian Air Force has also taken into account the experience gained during the aerial campaign in the Syrian Arab Republic. All incidents of using weapons and anti-aircraft missile military equipment is being carefully studied and employed during the drills, Babakov highlighted.

    Russia's military schools and academies of the Ministry of Defence as well as the country's technical universities are training specialists for anti-aircraft missile crews in the nation's Air Force, the major general noted, adding that this year over 1,000 graduates have taken up their duties in this branch of the armed forces of the Russian Federation.

    S-500: Successor to S-400 or Entirely New Weapon?

    Last December, Russian Deputy Defence Minister Alexei Krivoruchko revealed that the S-500 missile system and the Voronezh long-range early-warning radars could enter service as early as in 2021, following the completion of trials.

    Long-range early warning radars are the backbone of any missile defence complex. The Voronezh family, which monitors airspace against ballistic missile and aircraft attacks has three variations: Voronezh-M (metre band), Voronezh-DM (decimeter band), and Voronezh-SM (centimeter band). All three operate in a single system making it capable of determining target parameters and type more precisely.

    In early April 2021, Almaz-Antey signalled that the new S-500 air defence system was about to wrap up trials this year. It is expected that the new state-of-the-art Prometheus system will be delivered to the Russian Armed Forces once its combat tests are completed. In the future, the unique long-range air defence complex is due to become become the cornerstone of a unified national air and missile defence system.
    On 28 June, during a meeting with top graduates from military schools and academies of the Ministry of Defence, Russian President Vladimir Putin stated that the S-500 Prometheus anti-aircraft system, Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile, and Zircon ship-based hypersonic missiles would soon be put on combat duty along with other advanced military complexes.

    The development of the S-500 prompted a heated debate among western military observers who particularly raised the alarm over the system's reported ability to successfully thwart the US aircraft's low-observable (LO) technology: "Of all the Kremlin's latest weapons projects, the S-500 is among Russia's most direct and potent answers to US fifth-generation stealth fighter jets like Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II and F-22 Raptor", the National Interest underscored on 27 May 2021.

    "S-500s would be ideal for providing regional ballistic missile defence along Russia's European borders with NATO", the Drive wrote in May 2018. "It is in many ways roughly analogous to the US-made Terminal High Altitude Area Defence system, or THAAD, though the goal is clearly to offer flexibility to respond to more conventional aerial threats, as well".

    According to foreign observers, the S-500 can't be called a pure "successor" to the S-400: it's an entirely new weapon, designed to fulfill a broader set of strategic tasks.

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/202107131083378120-s-500-prometheus-killer-of-f-35-has-undergone-combat-missile-trials--is-coming-soon/

    franco likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29853
    Points : 30381
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:56 am


    "S-500s would be ideal for providing regional ballistic missile defence along Russia's European borders with NATO", the Drive wrote in May 2018. "It is in many ways roughly analogous to the US-made Terminal High Altitude Area Defence system, or THAAD, though the goal is clearly to offer flexibility to respond to more conventional aerial threats, as well".

    Ahh piss off, THAAD is an anti theatre ballistic missile system designed to shoot down Scuds and upgraded Scuds... S-400 can already engage targets moving at 4.8km/s which means most of the missiles covered by the INF treaty including short and medium and intermediate range (and most SLBMs) ballistic missiles, while S-500 expands the range at which targets can be shot down but also increases the flight speeds to over 7km/s which is ICBM and the longest range SLBM speed.

    The position the S-500 occupies is what the Moscow ABM system could only do before in Russian and Soviet service.

    To achieve that sort of range and flight performance it is going to be enormous so it will not be cost effective to be using them against normal aircraft... the F-35 could be knocked down by S-400 and S-350 and a range of other missile types... there would be no need to waste S-500s on them as much as the west would hope they do.

    More importantly the sensors the S-500 would need to operate in the Russia IADS means all their other SAM systems will be tracking all sorts of targets too, but then the F-35 was not safe before and will be even less safe after the introduction of the S-500 and other items like A-100 AWACS platforms and new fighter aircraft etc etc etc. Even the MiG-35 will be a serious challenge for the F-35.

    Long-range early warning radars are the backbone of any missile defence complex. The Voronezh family, which monitors airspace against ballistic missile and aircraft attacks has three variations: Voronezh-M (metre band), Voronezh-DM (decimeter band), and Voronezh-SM (centimeter band). All three operate in a single system making it capable of determining target parameters and type more precisely.

    To be clear it is not just the case of using three seperate frequencies to look in three different bands, think of it more as computers combining the output generated by sensors to get more out of a signal than any of the three sensors could achieve on their own.

    For instance if it was an optical system you have normal visible light, so digital TV, you could add a thermal channel or three thermal channels... short, medium, and long, and you might add an image intensification channel for low light levels.

    Even during daylight hours the thermal channels will add information so they will make humans and animals stand out because of their body heat, and allow the system to see things that are camouflaged for instance. At night the normal video channel becomes much less effective but the low light level image intensification and also the three thermal channels become much more useful.

    The point is that a computer processing the images from each channel can tidy up the noise and non important information and can enhance or emphasise anything of interest and using computer processing can find and highlight moving targets and label them so they are easier to keep track of and monitor.

    Big_Gazza likes this post

    avatar
    AirCombatSim

    Posts : 9
    Points : 13
    Join date : 2021-07-13

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  AirCombatSim Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:29 pm

    NOT just the IR bands but potentially UV as well in regards to sensors?

    If the 300's such as the SA-10 and 12's are potentially being pushed aside I am sure their are plenty of countries willing to pick them up. I like the flexibility of the SA-12 with the two different missile systems. I am unsure of the thin fabric covering the hexagonal radar. How much weather protection would that actually provide? Particular in places that have hail.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29853
    Points : 30381
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:16 am

    It has been operating in Russia for about 40 years now... I suspect the weather protection is pretty good.

    Being a tracked system it is intended to operate with armoured forces and go where they go, though obviously not on the front line of contact.

    Interestingly the thing to add would actually be an IRST... one of the problems with high power tracking radar or thermal imagers for that matter is that stealth targets would require very powerful search radar beams or good quality thermal imagers to spot the targets and so just using such systems would be like scanning the area in front of you looking for a target through a straw.

    The IRST does not have amazing high detail descrimination but it rapidly picks out hot spots and heat targets that you can then use a higher power higher resolution system to them examine and determine if it is a flat rock on the ground that has been heated by the sun or if it is a drone.

    IRSTs are also excellent for detecting movement and calculating angles... if you think of most radar objects the radar centre of the object might be outside the actual object depending on the angle you are viewing it from.

    I remember a few decades ago I was having a discussion with a chap who claimed an R-27 missile flying through the open cabin on his UH-1 helicopter was realism, ignoring the fact that a proximity fuse would have blown the aircraft to pieces let alone having such a large object moving at several times the speed of sound passing through there probably would have had an effect too...

    In a limited conflict the S-500 might be used to take down enemy AWACS and JSTARS aircraft to force them to pull them out of operations, but most of the time they would be ready for any long range ballistic attack, which is what they are designed for.

    The 9M96 are smaller than S-300 and the small model with a range of about 60km and the bigger one with a range of about 150km are active radar homing missiles that will be rather potent weapons... the smaller one reaches to about 20km altitude but the bigger one reaches about 30km altitude and they should be able to engage very fast targets with small radar cross sections.

    There is a reason the 9M96 will be the standard SAM on future Russian ships in the Redut system.

    Honestly I am surprised they have not developed an air launched model of both missiles because their small control surfaces make them rather compact and being air launched their flight range would probably double... the range of the Iskander is about 500km and the air launched Kinzhal is 2,000km so its range quadrupled...

    The 9M100 CIWS for the navy on the Redut system is also carried by the land based S-350 equivalent system, and it was suggested to be used in aircraft because its lock on after launch capability meant it could be launched from an internal weapon bay in a fighter or a bomber and then fly to and look for its target in flight. It is another compact slim missile... four 9M96 missiles fit in the tube width of the S-300 and four 9M100 missiles fit in the tube space of each 9M96 missile...

    Sponsored content

    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 35 Empty Re: S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:38 am