Russian defense firm fulfils annual plan of S-400 delivery to troops ahead of schedule
Upon their delivery, the S-400 systems held a test-fire exercise at a proving ground
MOSCOW, November 11. /TASS/. Russia’s Almaz-Antey defense manufacturer delivered the final regiment set of S-400 ‘Triumf’ medium-to long-range anti-aircraft missile systems this year, fulfilling its annual delivery plan ahead of schedule, the company said in a statement on Wednesday.
"Almaz-Antey Group delivered the next and final regiment set of S-400 ‘Triumf’ surface-to-air missile systems to the Defense Ministry this year ahead of schedule as part of its commitments under the defense procurement plan," the statement says.
The company’s commitments to the Defense Ministry of Russia for delivering S-400 ‘Triumf’ air defense systems have been discharged "in full and ahead of schedule," Almaz-Antey CEO Yan Novikov was quoted as saying in the statement.
Upon their delivery to the Defense Ministry, the S-400 systems held a test-fire exercise at a proving ground, the statement says.
"Following the results of the firings, the military hardware operated without a hitch and the acceptance/delivery trials passed successfully," the company stressed.
The press office of Russia’s Central Military District earlier reported that teams of the anti-aircraft missile regiment from the Samara Region in the Volga area had moved to the southern Astrakhan Region to receive the latest S-400 ‘Triumf" systems that would replace their S-300 predecessors.
Russia’s S-400 ‘Triumf’ (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) is the latest long-and medium-range surface-to-air missile system that went into service in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, and can also be used against ground installations. The S-400 can engage targets at a distance of up to 400 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km under intensive enemy fire and jamming.
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On November 5, 2020, the Press Service of the Central Military District reported that the calculations of the Samara anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Central Military District (TSVO) departed to the Kapustin Yar training ground (Astrakhan region) to receive the S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile system (SAM). The new S-400 system will enter the regiment for the first time and will replace the S-300 air defense system in service. Samara anti-aircraft gunners underwent retraining at the Anti-Aircraft Missile Forces Training Center of the Military Academy of Aerospace Defense in the Leningrad Region. Upon arrival at the training ground, they will have to accept a new S-400 air defense system, undergo additional training on this system, and pass tests for admission to combat firing. “This is the second anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Central Military District this year, which will be rearmed on the S-400 Triumph,” added Colonel Gennady Shlag, chief of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the 14th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Central Military District. VTS "Bastion"
NOTE: the 568th Air Defense Missile regiment is the unit in Samara.
I never understood the hype for Russian air defenses , they are pretty limited to protect any area anywhere.. those s-300s and s-400s failed to protect syria and armenia from drones attacks and others on their land.. Israel alone did about 2 thousands strikes on syria ,with russian military helping syria with pantsirs ,tors ,s-300s and s-400s. Those s-300s and s-400s have been largely ineffective is sealing the airspace of syria ,and also failed in protecting armenia that was attacked directly its main land..
the future of air defense belong to energy weapons or electromagnetic railguns but also next gen anti air magnetic propulsion kinetic artillery.
this is what russia needs to target drones ,cruise missiles and NATO planes with heavy jamming capabilities.
i warned years ago ,that russia was incorrectly training their forces for nato strikes ,they visualize nato charging Russian territory with f-16s and f-35's and dozens of cruise missiles at same time.
but thats not how nato train to attack russia.. they train with swarm of autonomous drones with artificial intelligence that can't be jammed doing the charge , and a single nato bomber can launch hundreds of drones in just one s-400 defended zone. so 10 bombers means 1 thousands of mini drones overwhelming russian defenses.. combined with decoys, so those s-300s and s-400s are pretty outdated for the job ,im afraid. same with tors and pantsirs outdated for modern wars as we saw in syria. it will be a total destruction of russia air defenses. This doesn't means that s-400s and s-300s will be useless completely ,they can snipe planes from far distances ,but russia don't have an effective area of denial defense for the first wave of attacks that will be lead by swarm of drones and glide bombs that caused a lot of damage in syria.. sadly.
Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Isos wrote:Genius this gun has an effective range of 5-6 km.
Laser have an optical horizon of 10 or so km. .
indeed have short range. but they are very cheap and you can deploy far more units of them ,than you can of tors and pantsirs.. and if you mount those defenses on warships ,you will push back those planes , farther of your borders.. 10 converttes armed with anti air magnetic driven area artillery can cover about 10x 6km = 60km..at very least.. but if you spread them with 10km distance between them, then you will have 120km of rock solid impenetrable air defense. and only use s-300s and s-400s for sniping ,but not for stopping swarm of drones.. they are not ideal for that job.. neither pantsirs or tors.. this is not mentioning the economic cost ,since like i saw 1 american b1 bomber can launch a hundred of mini drones.. this is how nato trains to fight russia, with saturation attacks..
Russia will need at least 1 thousand missiles interceptor ,1-2x missiles per target ,to stop a first wave of NATO saturation attacks. and they can pull dozen of waves like that..
this is what nato and israel did in syria to destroy those pantsirs.. and this is what turkey also did.. and this is what arerbaijan also did.. if anyone thinks that russia air defenses can effectively block nato swarm drones attacks is because is not paying attention of the conflicts and how many air defenses russia lost in the last 5 years. Tors ,pantsirs, s-300s all destroyed.. trying to deal with swarm of drones..
take a look at how Russia military "train"
notice how they need 2 missiles, to just shoot down a soviet era missile. while anti air artillery salvos are cheap munition.. you can fire thousands of them for the cost of 1 interceptor missile. and this is a "Training" for them. This is completely unrealistic scenario , because if NATO attacks russia will not be with 1 anti ship missile.. and russia big exercises best i have seen is russia military fighting versus waves of 50-60 drones.. and about the same in enemy planes.
Russia do not have a true area of denial defense ,and also even if they were crazy enough to deploy all their air defenses in one place ,to multiply their chances ,this will be incredibly inefficient to use s-300s and s-400s versus loitering munition drones or swarm of drones . is not economically practical..
the future of air defense will be rail guns ,lazer guns ,computer guided anti air magnetic artillery and lethal electromagnetic weapons.. in this later russia have some progress.. but based on how they did in armenia ,that got their helicopter destroyed ,and could not defend armenia s-300 in armenia territory , it will be clear they are not there yet.. Those s-300s and s400s will be pieces of museum in the next 5 to 10 years ,with advancement of rail guns.. and anti air artillery .
railguns range can go as high a 1,000km.. and this is what americans are working. The ones they ahve today reach 300 km distance ,so this are true scary weapons. because you can attack any nation or any combat plane from very far distances and there will be no trace of who did the attack .since those hypersonic shells have next to none signature on radars ,will not be detected by radars in most cases.. so the enemy will not see what hit them. A long range rail gun can be used to assasinate a county leader on his presidential plane.. russia better be careful of those presidential flights to europe.. a simple warship or cargo ship armed with a rail gun ,can shot down any plane withing a radius of 300m to 1km and do it secretly.. so far, not impressed with those s-400s or s-300s ,they have been useless in syria and in armenia ,have changed nothing ,and have not created any denial of zone. .don't understand the hype for them.
Someone need to show the russian military what germany is doing for short range defense.. is far superior to anything russia have. this is how true modern air defenses should be. this is how true area denial should be.. cheap ,powerful and extremely effective vs swarm of drones. but also an effective
iskander and hypersonic tsirkon killer.
sadly russia military is sleeping , and if they don't change their defense tactics ,it will be a disaster when they need to face a true NATO swarm of drone attack.. what they can do.
The russian base in syria will not have a chance of an attack like this ,of a thousands kamikazi drones with artificial intelligence
US is also testing very high altitude stealth drones with a very small radar detection that one reach the max altitude will glide down towards their s-400 target , that don't glide in a predictable flight path .. this will be another very serious problem for russia air defenses. russia need to go back to the drawing board and create modern anti air artillery combined with rail guns and lasers,this the most efficient way to deal with future wars that will be 100% lead by swarm of drones and highly maneuverable targets. Also russia need long range rail guns mounted on their warship or land.. those s-300s ,pantsirs and tors will not have a chance to stop an rail gun attack , venezuela was attacked 2 weeks ago by a rail gun and their s-300s ,pantsir and tors defenses totally failed to protect their refinery.
the ugly truth of putin's army air defenses.. and people still believe Putin was the "big winner" of this armenia conflict.
This was truly painful to watch ,how russian best air defenses in service completely smashed by a third world country like azerbaijan.. in such a small conflict of armenia ,and very likely it was Russian officers the ones killed operating their tor defenses , since armenia did not have plenty of experience using them. and they hide their deaths by "Accidents" on military bases..
Russia will need a ridiculous high number of tors and pantsir defenses like 500x tors/pantsirs in order to stop a swarm of drones ,like the ones a major power like israel ,france or uk can produce. and a far more to fight a true NATO attack on russia territory.
Im afraid the Russian military will do absolutely nothing to change completely their air defense tactics..and their military hardware until shoigu removed or they get s-400s easily destroyed by a third world country like turkey or azerbaijan ,which ever come first. because the sad truth is they are completely inadequate to fight swarm of drones attacks.. Russia will need to go back to the drawing board or buy germany anti air artillery ,lots of them ,as many as they can build. also take to a whole new level their electronic warfare.. because so far the performance of russia defending armenia and syria have been largely not very great.. but more close to mediocre. if nato and israel ,was very serious of destroying kaliningrad air defenses there .which are even stronger than crimea. they could truly pull that out with thousands of swarm of drones ,and loitering munition they can easily pull from poland.
who really won in the armenian conflict and who really lost? the big loser was not armenia.. but the russian military air defenses instead, they were destroyed left right and center iskander launchers destroyed, tors ,pantsirs and s-300s, their performance was completely inadequate for the job. and azerbaijan is a third world nation ,not a major power ,they got only a few hundred of drones. and it it was russia who setup armenia air defenses and not only soviet era defenses destroyed but also russia best tor and pantsir defenses too.. and s-300s favorit destroyed too. So it was russia military the real big loser in this conflict. this defeat of russia technology , could only be a positive thing ,if they fire shoigu from his job and putin too , and they realize their air defenses are not acceptable for the job and start inmediately working in advanced anti air artillery .,rail guns and land laser defenses.. can s-300 and s-400 shot down any drone ? for sure it can ,but their performance is very bad as we saw in syria and armenia ,versus groups of coordinated surprise drones and missile attacks at same time. So it will will be funny that after russia invested so much money in pantsir and tors..and s-300s and also s-400s, they end ditching them and selling them to other nations and start working on something else. s-400s will still be useful but only practical versus long range attacks on combat planes ,stealth planes and and large expensive targets like intel spy planes. S-400s should be seen as sniper rifles..they work well at range but not ideal for close combat and russia have a big major security hole in the short and medium air defenses and their electronic warfare doesn't appear to be good enough to deny an air space area to an enemy that is armed by nato or israel.
definitely putin will need to stop wasting the billions of euros he spend in total distractions and celebrations like olympics and and celebrations of soviet past victories and seriously increase the budget of russia defense industry in new air defenses research weapons program.. because i do see this performance of russia in protecting armenia main land, from not very good to abysmally bad as was the armenian conflict , and he only managed to minimize the bad publicity ,because aliev accepted a cease of fire. because if he goes full scale all or nothing ,russia will have lost a lot more air defenses and more soldiers killed in armenia than in syria conflict ,and even their s-400s destroyed too ,by cheap drones as a final insult. The russian military should be dismayed by now ,how bad was their military performance versus major swarm of drones attacks. the good news is that russia do have capabilities to correct this mistake.. the bad news is that russia it is still ruled by slow learning people ,that don't adapt very fast.. and i was warning about this many years ago ,russia is not training its military correctly to deal with up to a thousands of missiles and drones attacks with decoys,because this is exactly what they have been training for a very long time. the only deterrence russia to stop nato from attacking russia are their nuclear weapons ,their submarine force and their hypersonic missiles. because if all depended on russia air defenses..russia will be doomed already.
@Vann7 Railguns need very high power supply thus its employment as a towed/SP system for army is doubtful in the near future.
That's why US Navy is testing it on a deck ,need a decent amount of deck space as well as a ton of space below decks and the weapon needs a new launcher cores every 400 shots and barrels every thousand. It consumes 9kw hours per shot ,so their deck options would be the 3 Zumwalt destroyers and aircraft carriers.
Hahahahaha... thanks for the entertainment Vann... or should I say chicken little.
Russian air defence is useless... that is the lesson you learned from the conflict in NK?
Drones are cheap and simple weapons, just like AKs and RPG-7s are cheap simple weapons... drawing the conclusion that drones can defeat the air defence of NK, and therefore no one is safe from them is amusing because as France has found some idiot with a knife is cheap and hard to stop are you suggesting France should give up its navy and army and air force and just equip its military with knifes and send them to enemy countries?
This was not Azerbaijan defeating Armenia or Russia... they beat NK and they had the direct assistance of Turkey and Israel... you bleat that Russia has no defences, but if that attack was on Russian forces there of course would be better results against the drones because Russian troops are actually quite well equipped to deal with air threats, but also the direct response against Azerbaijan or whomever the attack was launched from would be destroyed by missiles launched from ships thousands of kms away.
Azerbaijan is tiny and it small military capacity is very well understood by Russia and could be quickly and clinically overwhelmed in hours and then when it is exposed they could be slaughtering people as much as they like, but to what benefit?
How does Russia benefit by destroying anyone in that region?
Railguns as operational weapons don't currently exist and the money right now needed to create them would be enormous... which is pretty stupid because right now missiles and conventional guns exist that could do a much better job much more affordably.
Vann7 wrote: s-300s and s-400s failed to protect syria and armenia from drones attacks.
They are not meant for point defence but rather area defence. Armenia should have used Pantsir-S1 to target drones. However, there are hardly any reports of frequent swarm drone attacks being carried out by Azeris. Just a few. Heavy machine gun fire can down these drones easily, they just need a good sighting system.
Vann7 wrote:they train with swarm of autonomous drones with artificial intelligence that can't be jammed doing the charge
Why can't these drones be jammed?
Vann7 wrote:the future of air defense belong to energy weapons or electromagnetic railguns but also next gen anti air magnetic propulsion kinetic artillery.
Electromagnetic rail gun for air defence? They were initially conceptualized to replace the main gun on surface combatants. But most tests have been un successful. In any case maybe they have potential as area defence weapons much like the S400 but how do you propose to use electromagnetic rail guns for air defence?
Anti air magnetic propulsion kinectic artillery like Rheinmetall's Sky Guard (video of which you have posted) certainly has potential. Agreed on that count.
Directed Energy Weapons too will come handy as air defence weapons but they are at least a decade away.
Above all , Vann7 start from a complete false assumption:those swarms of drones still doesn't exist as they are just going developed.
In the same moment, countermeasures for them are actually being introduced in service or they would be soon as developmental work is already close to conclusion. Armed UAVs and loitering munitions have showed to be effective because they take advantage of gaps into actual radar and AD weapons coverage but, as already said, other systems and even radar modes that would specifically deal with them are ready: they just need to be produced and distributed to troops and allies.
So, I will repeat what I wrote in my latest post on this same thread: it's S-350 (and Pantsir SM-1) time!
Actually it might be a case of EMP pulse weapons... a 120mm mortar sized bomb should be big enough to get a 50m radius effective weapon to take out drones in large numbers.... they could have an excellent rate of fire and a barrage of 120mm mortar bombs would be relatively cheap and quick to launch to blunt an attack...
The real irony is that the people suggesting these swarm attacks are doing so from a position of vulnerability from conventional cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles and even stealth aircraft attack.
You would think that Azerbaijan was some sort of super power, but at the end of the day it is similar to the Egyptian fleet sinking an Israeli ship with an anti ship missile... it was a surprise... it was clever and it was effective... but it likely wont work again because counter measures can be applied.
In the case of Russia they have plenty of countermeasures... if Kiev starts murdering ukrainians in the donbas area with a huge fleet of drones there are quite a few things they could do... including using artillery to destroy enemy positions they have been wanting an excuse to hit for some time... they have never really hit back at Kiev, so a few small groups of men with explosives and weapons could go in and take out some high officials in the Kiev hierarchy, and just let Kiev know what war feels like... it is one thing to inflict war on a distant province but when it comes to you where you live it becomes much more serious and real.
There is no reason why the rebels couldn't use drones themselves... the Ukrainians are likely much worse off in regards ability to defend themselves.
Plus it is a chance for the Russians to analyse further how enemies use drones and how to counter them and neutralise their effects.
Worse case scenario they have hundreds of soldiers on the battlefield from behind cover they can volley fire at the drones so all the rounds they are firing land on enemy territory... so they can blame the drone operators for any deaths downrange.
I consider Vann7, aka Chicken-Little, with his infinite schizophrenia an endless source of comedic entertainment!
The reality is U.S./NATO SAMs perform far worse against drones. Iranian drones had to be within 20km to do this :
Iran drones "walk" in the area of responsibility of American air defense
Iran received a full “picture” of the deployment of military equipment and missile defense / air defense systems at US bases located in the Middle East
According to the information published on Twitter, the Iranian military using remote access learned how to crack the Patriot air defense and missile defense systems. To do this, reconnaissance drones were used, which broadcast radiation from electronic warfare systems, suppressing US radar stations.
As evidence, Tehran published photographs showing how an Iranian UAV freely flies over the largest US military bases in neighboring Iraq and on the west coast of the Persian Gulf. At the same time, the Patriot air defense missile systems did not see him, although they were supposed to be detected when approaching a distance of 50 kilometers.
The same situation was observed in the sky over Saudi Arabia, where Iranian drones removed everything that they wanted to see and at the same time were not detected by any air defense system.
At the moment, it is not known how the Iranian military managed to achieve such success. However, according to experts, a significant role in this operation was played by the latest Russian electronic warfare systems delivered to Iran, which turned off the American air defense systems.