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    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:57 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    They won't be concerned, USA already knows everything it wants about these export versions (China, Belarus)

    This was taken into calculation when sales were made

    I seriously doubt that....AFAIK, Belarussia doesn't operate S-400's to begin with and I won't even get into why China wouldn't share any data with the US


    It would be simpler for USA to just buy new one from Russia, they would sell it no problem lol1

    Rolling Eyes

    Update:

    Ankara will not be able to sell Washington S-400 air defense system without consent from Moscow , said the official representative of the Federal service for military-technical cooperation (FSMTC) Maria Vorobyova.

    She explained that in order to export military products, the buyer of equipment must submit an end-user certificate to the Russian side, Interfax reports.

    https://www.nakanune.ru/news/2020/07/01/22577554/

    Also,

    the press Secretary of the ruling party of Turkey noted that Turkey has no intention of selling the S-400 to the United States and there are no legal grounds for such a deal. Similarly, Turkey would not resell American weapons to 3rd countries.
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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:16 pm

    Turkey can sell S400 to USA but they can put the condition that when they get the F35, they will sell it to Russia Laughing

    Surprising the US lawmakers think Turkey can be that stupid. Speaks a volume about the fantasy world those lawmakers live in. They should come out of their hole and accept the fact that US is not the owner of this planet.
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    Post  Isos Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:01 pm

    They still haven't understood that Turkey bought s-400 because of NATO ?

    Same for future su-35 orders.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:29 pm

    The US politicians are only suggesting it because they think that, due to the huge benefits of the F-35 program, the only thing stopping Turkey is the money they have spent on the S-400 so buying it from Turkey would allow Turkey to return to the fold.

    They do tend to be pretty narrow minded and very money oriented. Could be a nice little earner if some of the money did'nt actually get to the Turks and came back to the US politicians by different routes. Apparently a fairly normal procedure for them.

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    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 27 Empty Compromised Technology

    Post  calripson Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:46 am

    Assume any exported technology is compromised.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:36 am

    The US politicians are only suggesting it because they think that, due to the huge benefits of the F-35 program, the only thing stopping Turkey is the money they have spent on the S-400 so buying it from Turkey would allow Turkey to return to the fold.

    Turkey is not rich and cannot throw its money away on shit like the US does but the S-400s were a bargain compared with Patriot or THAAD and offer better performance than either western system on its own. Also Turkey didn't leave the F-35 programme they got pushed out by Trump. If 10 billion dollars suddenly fell in their lap they still would not be allowed F-35 because it is the US saying no.

    Awesome escape from a terrible money pit I would say... they could probably build a much better plane themselves with a bit of help from Russia... but not as much as some probably think.

    Assume any exported technology is compromised.

    In service technology is already out of date compared with what they are developing so if that is new stuff to you you are in trouble because by the time you examine it and reverse engineer it and learn its lessons and produce something new with the new knowledge you just gained they will probably be introducing its replacement anyway.
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    Post  dino00 Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:22 pm

    The new S-500 air defense system will be able to work against hypersonic weapons in near space - Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces

    Moscow. 3 July. INTERFAX - The new-generation S-500 Prometheus air defense system (air defense) system will be able to destroy satellites and hypersonic weapons in near space, said Sergei Surovikin, Commander-in-Chief of the Aerospace Forces of Russia.

    "According to its tactical and technical characteristics, the S-500 can be attributed to the first generation of space defense systems, since in the future it will be able to destroy low-orbit satellites and space weapons," Surovikin said in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper of the Russian Defense Ministry.

    “The characteristics laid down in the S-500 air defense system make it possible to destroy, in addition to aerodynamic and ballistic targets, hypersonic weapons of all modifications, including in the near space. It is safe to say that analogues of this system simply do not exist,” he said.

    According to Surovikin, Prometheus is being developed by the Almaz-Antey concern as a new generation of anti-aircraft missile systems using the principle of separately solving the tasks of destroying ballistic and aerodynamic targets.

    "The main task of the complex is the destruction of medium-range ballistic missiles, and, if necessary, the warheads of intercontinental ballistic missiles in the final section of their flight path," said the commander in chief.

    "The S-500 complex is capable of destroying hypersonic aircraft, planes and unmanned aerial vehicles," he said
    .

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=534309&lang=RU

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    Post  LMFS Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:50 am

    dino00 wrote:The new S-500 air defense system will be able to work against hypersonic weapons in near space - Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces

    Ooops, it seems the Russians didn't unleash the race for hypersonics in the US, until being sure of having the antidote against such weapons. Some more of Pentagon's billions going down the drain as we speak welcome

    Full interview:

    http://redstar.ru/chtoby-gospodstvo-v-vozduhe-ostavalos-za-nami/

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:12 am

    I suspect to maximise performance they likely split the tasks of in space manouvering and non manouvering targets and inside the atmosphere manouvering and non manouvering targets.

    The S-300V system has a small missile and a big missile... the difference is basically a solid rocket booster... the big one has a bigger booster while the smaller missile has a smaller booster.

    the bigger booster gives the bigger missile more energy to engage targets at longer ranges and higher altitudes and together they can engage a wider range of targets than either missile could manage on their own.

    When they say unmanned platforms they don't mean hand held drones 5km away... they will be meaning HALES and MALES and hypersonic unmanned bombers or cruise missiles...

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm

    S-350, S-300V4 (9A83M), S-300V4 (9A84M-1), S-400 top view
    S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3 - Page 27 EcAx0h8WAAMxRTx?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:14 am

    Awesome picture... it makes it clear that a tube big enough to carry Rif and Rif-M which are S-300 sized missiles could also carry four S-350 missiles in it the way they are sometimes fitted to S-400 tubes before the S-350 TELs were ready, but it also shows that the S-300V missiles (the two middle vehicles) are both different from the S-300 and S-400 missiles.

    What is not obvious is the other difference... the two outer vehicles are wheeled trucks and the two vehicles in the middle are tracked vehicles like tanks.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:24 am

    GarryB wrote:Awesome picture... it makes it clear that a tube big enough to carry Rif and Rif-M which are S-300 sized missiles could also carry four S-350 missiles in it the way they are sometimes fitted to S-400 tubes before the S-350 TELs were ready, but it also shows that the S-300V missiles (the two middle vehicles) are both different from the S-300 and S-400 missiles.

    What is not obvious is the other difference... the two outer vehicles are wheeled trucks and the two vehicles in the middle are tracked vehicles like tanks.

    I was also under the impression that the tracked TELs were larger than the wheeled TELs, when it's the opposite actually.
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    Post  Mindstorm Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:51 am


    Игорь Коротченко say that competitors of C-500 will not appear abroad before 15-20 years and that its maximum altitude of interception will be around 270-300 km


    https://vpk.name/news/416538_ishodya_iz_harakteristik_s-500_ee_budut_primenyat_v_kachestve_elementa_mobilnoi_strategicheskoi_pro.html

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:03 pm

    S-500 are anti ICBM systems and technically with a range of more than 500km should not be allowed to be exported under the missile export controls agreements in place.

    Of course that same agreement would prevent the AEGIS Ashore Mk-41 launchers from being deployed to Japan or Europe or anywhere really....
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:38 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Игорь Коротченко say that competitors of C-500 will not appear abroad before 15-20 years and that its maximum altitude of interception will be around 270-300 km


    https://vpk.name/news/416538_ishodya_iz_harakteristik_s-500_ee_budut_primenyat_v_kachestve_elementa_mobilnoi_strategicheskoi_pro.htmlhttps://www.gazeta.ru/army/2020/06/19/13123189.shtml

    Today, Russia is engaged in the development of a landfill base in the regions of the country, but this is far from a quick and very costly way.

    While some unresolved technical problems are affecting the Nudoli adoption period, the entry into the S-500 troops is mainly due to the imperfection of the training base.

    “The task of“ shooting off ”this system in full, especially in the near space, and with the corresponding target situation, has yet to be solved. But there are no technological problems associated with the adoption of the S-500. Nevertheless, the receipt of both systems to equip the Russian army in 2021 should be assessed as a period colored by a fair amount of optimism, ”a high-ranking source in the Russian defense industry explained to Gazeta.ru.

    The S-500 "Prometheus" anti-aircraft missile system (55R6M "Triumfator-M") is being developed by the Almaz-Antey Concern for Aerospace Defense as a new generation of air defense and missile defense systems. The S-500 is supposed to apply the principle of separate solution to the tasks of destroying ballistic and aerodynamic targets.

    As Pavel Sozinov , general designer of the Almaz-Antey East-Kazakhstan Concern, told in an interview with Gazeta.ru , “the S-500 anti-aircraft missile system is not just a repetition of the systems of previous generations in the next technical and technological edition. The S-500 air defense system is classified as a 5th generation system, and it will solve missile defense missions as well.

    We strive to significantly exceed in many respects the achievements that the Americans realized in the THAAD mobile missile defense system. Another task of the "Five Hundred" is to further increase the capabilities in the field of air defense.


    Compared with the S-400, the new system will be completely different constructively and technically, it will have new location and computing facilities, new anti-aircraft guided missiles. "


    Another important point, said the general designer of the Concern East Kazakhstan Almaz-Antey, and this is a global trend - the basic modes of operation in the S-500 air defense system will be automatic.

    That is, the intervention of a human operator in the course of combat work is assumed, but the main mode of all S-500 assets separately, and the system as a whole, is automatic. Only in this case can the desired result be achieved by repelling the impact of modern airspace attack equipment, especially in the conditions of massive raids and in difficult conditions of an interference environment, the general designer explained.

    Technological support is equally important, says Pavel Sozinov.

    S-500 is a large scientific and industrial-technological program, and not just designing a system of prefabricated elements.

    “It is clear that in order to achieve unique in the class of mobile air defense / missile defense capabilities, an advanced technological platform is needed. We have it, ”the general designer emphasized.

    As part of the S-500 air defense system it is planned to have: command and control facilities: combat control point 85ZH6-1, early warning radar 60K6; air defense module: command post 55K6MA, radar 91N6AM, launchers 51P6M, anti-aircraft guided missiles 40N6M; missile defense module: combat control point 85ZH6-2, 76T6 and 77T6 radar with active phased array (AFAR), launchers 77P6; missiles 77N6-N and 77N6-H1 (developed by OJSC MKB Fakel).

    As for the Nudoli, this system has the ability to fire at targets in near space, and its anti-missiles will be equipped with both special and conventional warheads.

    https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2020/06/19/13123189.shtml
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    Post  dino00 Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:54 pm

    Anti-aircraft gunners in Eastern Siberia to get latest S-300PM-2 air defense systems

    https://tass.com/defense/1176499

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    Post  kvs Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:25 pm



    The above is relevant to this thread since it adds support to the fact that the S-400 is an effective system.

    The US is bitching hard that Russia is deploying the S-400 to the Arctic. If you look at a world globe, you will see
    that Russia's land mass is not adjacent to the USA aside from the Bering Strait. So why would the yanquis care
    so much where Russia deploys the S-400 inside its borders in the high latitudes:

    1) the yanquis have been making lots of noise about controlling the Arctic in the name of freedumbs and other
    vapid BS. They even deployed the F-35 (LOL) to Alaska.

    2) the yanquis have and had big plans to establish their ABM from the Arctic Ocean near Russia's coast where they
    expected to intercept Russian ICBMs in the boost phase.

    3) the yanquis worship air war. They think that control of the air guarantees their victory. The S-400 denies them
    such a chance even if they lie about it.

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    Post  Viktor Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:27 pm

    Another S-400 regiment enters starts its duty thumbsup

    The Ministry of Defense received the second regimental set of S-400 air defense systems

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    Post  RTN Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect to maximise performance they likely split the tasks of in space manouvering and non manouvering targets and inside the atmosphere manouvering and non manouvering targets.

    The S-300V system has a small missile and a big missile... the difference is basically a solid rocket booster... the big one has a bigger booster while the smaller missile has a smaller booster.

    the bigger booster gives the bigger missile more energy to engage targets at longer ranges and higher altitudes and together they can engage a wider range of targets than either missile could manage on their own.

    When they say unmanned platforms they don't mean hand held drones 5km away... they will be meaning HALES and MALES and hypersonic unmanned bombers or cruise missiles...

    Within Russia the 96L6 is deployed in three ways: as an EW asset within the EW network, with the S-350, and with the S-400. While many S-300PM batteries received the Favorit-S upgrade and are now S-300PM2 standard, that seems to only involve upgraded equipment and the ability to fire the 48N6D. They retain the 76N6 and have not received the 96L6.

    Furthermore, the ability of a single battery to operate independent of an air defence network should not be understated. They have the 96L6 at the battery level, providing them with a dedicated organic acquisition and track generating capability. The 96L6 can perform 360 degree search, the limiting factor will be the 120 degree or so engagement cone for the 92N6 engagement radar at a given point in time.

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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:30 pm

    Furthermore, the ability of a single battery to operate independent of an air defence network should not be understated.

    As long as you know where the engagement radar is, it become useless, just like any air defence system that is operating alone. Then you can plan an attack to take it down.

    In a IADS you will detect the radar that scan the airspace but not the s-300 that is listening 100km away with radar turned off and waiting informations about any plane entering in its engagement zone. Then it locks on you and launch a missile while you think there is no AD there.

    Buk system can spread the launchers to cover more area against low altitude flying planes because each of them has a thermal camera for passive detection and an engagement radar to work alone.
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    Post  RTN Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:53 pm

    Isos wrote:the s-300 that is listening 100km away with radar turned off and waiting informations about any plane entering in its engagement zone. Then it locks on you and launch a missile while you think there is no AD there.
    Listening with radar turned off would mean what? The S -300 battery is receiving information about the enemy aircraft, missile from other sources like space based assets?
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:59 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Isos wrote:the s-300 that is listening 100km away with radar turned off and waiting informations about any plane entering in its engagement zone. Then it locks on you and launch a missile while you think there is no AD there.
    Listening with radar turned off would mean what? The S -300 battery is receiving information about the enemy aircraft, missile from other sources like space based assets?

    IADS. Datalink.

    It will receive informations from command posts that will be noticed by a nearby radar that is turned on about enemy planes. For exemple Nebo radars.

    The operator in the S-300 with the radar turned off will see on its consol everything the Nebo sees transmited through the command post. But its radar will be turned off. Once the enemy aircraft goes inside its engaging zone it will just use its engagement radar to launch its missiles at the last moment.

    But generally S-400/300 are top tier AD systems and their surveillance radar will work as the active radar while other buks, pantsir and tors will be around waiting for orders. But then even buks have an engagement radar that goes with them. Which less powerfull that s-400's. And all of them will be connected to a command post and every command post will be connected to a more important command post. Lot of redundancy. But mainly it will be surveillance rdar that will be turned on working in L band or S band against which normal jammers don't work and they see at least 300-400 km away a small fighter.

    That's why IADS are good.

    They don't use satelittes IMO for their IADS.
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    Post  Isos Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:27 am

    Huge if true. That explains why they export it. Pictures in link.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1293162795790266369


    Guy Plopsky
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    ·
    9h
    1/ Take this with a grain of salt, but the 92N6A fire-control radar used in Russian military #S400 systems seems markedly more capable than its export version (the 92N6E).
    Note the claimed detection ranges for a target with a 4 m2 RCS:
    92N6A: up to 480 km
    92N6E: up to 250 km

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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:43 am

    The domestic version is capable of using the 40N6 missile, which is not exported.
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    Post  Isos Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:48 am

    Hole wrote:The domestic version is capable of using the 40N6 missile, which is not exported.

    China and India are getting it too. The difference is that russia can use it against f-15 at max range when export variant will use it only against big targets.

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