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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

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    ult


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    Post  ult Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Thus ends great naval battle of Kerch Strait Bridge  yes sir

    Three Ukrainian Naval Ships Depart Kerch Strait, Head back to Berdyansk

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201811251070122409-ukraine-kerch-strait-naval-ships-retreat/

    That's the second group of their ships, that came from Azov.
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    Post  ult Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:57 pm

    Audio of the negotiations.

    https://soundcloud.com/user6404565

    Basically ukrainians said that they don't pose a threat. Then they were asked to stop by the Russian border guard. Then it looks like they were fired upon and asked for help because they had wounded (rumors say 6). They were told to illuminate their boats and come out with their hands in the air, or they'll be shot.
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    Post  miketheterrible Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:10 pm

    ult wrote:Audio of the negotiations.

    https://soundcloud.com/user6404565

    Basically ukrainians said that they don't pose a threat. Then they were asked to stop by the Russian border guard. Then it looks like they were fired upon and asked for help because they had wounded (rumors say 6). They were told to illuminate their boats and come out with their hands in the air, or they'll be shot.

    So the Russians did open on them?
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    Post  ult Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:20 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    ult wrote:Audio of the negotiations.

    https://soundcloud.com/user6404565

    Basically ukrainians said that they don't pose a threat. Then they were asked to stop by the Russian border guard. Then it looks like they were fired upon and asked for help because they had wounded (rumors say 6). They were told to illuminate their boats and come out with their hands in the air, or they'll be shot.

    So the Russians did open on them?

    Yup. 3 wounded. They'll live. It is now on all main news channels in Russia. All 3 boats were boarded.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:52 pm

    ult wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    ult wrote:Audio of the negotiations.

    https://soundcloud.com/user6404565

    Basically ukrainians said that they don't pose a threat. Then they were asked to stop by the Russian border guard. Then it looks like they were fired upon and asked for help because they had wounded (rumors say 6). They were told to illuminate their boats and come out with their hands in the air, or they'll be shot.

    So the Russians did open on them?

    Yup. 3 wounded. They'll live. It is now on all main news channels in Russia. All 3 boats were boarded.

    Perhaps Porousshenko's last resort to get a uptick in the polls (i.e. the rally around effect)?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:00 pm

    BTW Tymoshenko will likely go back in to power, which means more of the same for the Maidanuts and Ukrappy's, by the time she settles in to power the Federation will be on its way to pulling the gas plug...so will the Lvov Hillary Clinton pull all the stops on fighting in the East of the country? Because she has to keep the average citizen distracted from the fact that she's more of the same.
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    Post  VARGR198 Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:02 am

    Poroshenko has called the Ukrainian Rada to a vote to declare a state of emergancy and Martial Law. Seems likethis is how he intends to stay in power and cancel the upcoming elections.
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066814586005979136
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066827945430474753
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066826328790454272
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:01 am

    VARGR198 wrote:Poroshenko has called the Ukrainian Rada to a vote to declare a state of emergancy and Martial Law. Seems likethis is how he intends to stay in power and cancel the upcoming elections.
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066814586005979136
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066827945430474753
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066826328790454272


    Yup, pretty much only way to stay in power and avoid lamppost (ironically Serbian word for this is 'bandera' lol1 )

    Under martial law elections can be suspended along with right to free speech and protest

    And anyone can be arrested without warrant


    Still he won't be declaring war on Russia lest he wants companies like Novator Design Bureau , KTRV , MKB Fakel , NPO Mash , Raduga and NPO Zvezda Strela to get massive boost in orders... Cool
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:28 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    VARGR198 wrote:Poroshenko has called the Ukrainian Rada to a vote to declare a state of emergancy and Martial Law. Seems likethis is how he intends to stay in power and cancel the upcoming elections.
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066814586005979136
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066827945430474753
    https://twitter.com/Eire_QC/status/1066826328790454272


    Yup, pretty much only way to stay in power and avoid lamppost (ironically Serbian word for this is 'bandera' lol1 )

    Under martial law elections can be suspended along with right to free speech and protest

    And anyone can be arrested without warrant


    Still he won't be declaring war on Russia lest he wants companies like Novator Design Bureau , KTRV , MKB Fakel , NPO Mash , Raduga and  NPO Zvezda Strela to get massive boost in orders... Cool

    Martial Law and cancelling elections? All the agit prop peddled by Radio Fear Europe is starting to smell funny. lol1
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    Post  VARGR198 Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:41 am

    https://twitter.com/myrevolutionrus/status/1066957658035576833
    medo
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    Post  medo Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:43 pm

    Porosjonko declared the state of war. Now the Ukraine will have to go to war. i don't think, they will go to war with Russia, but for sure they will go to new war in Donbass. Partition of Ukraine in three parts will soon happen, so Russia could simply wait with those three ships and later deliver them to Novorussian NAVY.
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:50 pm

    medo wrote:Porosjonko declared the state of war. Now the Ukraine will have to go to war. i don't think, they will go to war with Russia, but for sure they will go to new war in Donbass. Partition of Ukraine in three parts will soon happen, so Russia could simply wait with those three ships and later deliver them to Novorussian NAVY.



    Actually, unofficially Ukraine went to war against South Ossetia back in 2008:


    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/302/ukraine-participated-invasion-south-ossetia



    If I were Russia I would have done everything in order for President Yanukovych to stay in power. Now Ukraine is back to its old bad habits.



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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:49 pm

    If the eastern regions are barred from elections, they should start an uprising like Donbass did and screw the Ukraine.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Martiallaw2
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:10 pm


    Small holes from small arms Cool

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 WkD0L
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    Post  franco Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:06 pm

    The official Russian version of the incident with the Ukrainian boats in the Kerch Strait area

    On November 26, 2018, the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation distributed an informational message “On the provocative actions of the Ukrainian Navy ships” with the official Russian version concerning the detention on November 25 of the Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation of three units of the Ukrainian Navy — Berdyansk small armored boats and P 176 "Nikopol" project 58155 and raid tug A 947 "Jana Kapu" (formerly "Krasnoperekopsk") project 498. Both boats and tug were detained in Russian territory ial waters off the southeastern coast of the Crimea when trying to implement uncoordinated with the Russian side passage Kercheskom Strait in the Black Sea of ​​Azov.

    The report of the FSB of Russia says:

    At 4:40 on November 24, 2018, in the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation at a distance of 28-30 miles southeast of Meganom, the forces of the Ukrainian Federal Security Service of the Federal Security Service of the Republic of Crimea detected and identified vessels of the Ukrainian Navy: the support ship Gorlovka (onboard number U -753) and sea tug "Yany Kapu" (tail number A-947), which went to the north-east in the direction of the Kerch Strait.

    At 21.30 at the approach of a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy to the state border of the Russian Federation, pska-302 informed them about the procedure for crossing the state border of the Russian Federation and the rules of navigation on the Kerch-Yenikalsky channel, providing for filing an application to the Maritime Administration of the port of Kerch in 48, 24 hours and confirmation in 4 hours that the ships of the Ukrainian Navy was not done. A reply was received from the commanders of the ships of the Ukrainian Navy that the crossing of the state border of the Russian Federation and the passage of the Kerch Strait by a ship group is not planned.

    At 22.23 Pska-302 brought to the group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy information on the closure of the area in the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation on the approach to the Kerch Strait from the Black Sea. A group of ships of the Ukrainian Navy maneuvers in the EEZ of the Russian Federation at a distance of 6-7 miles from the state border of the Russian Federation, on the traverse of the Kerch Strait.

    At 02.05 on November 25 of this year. pskr "Izumrud" in the EEZ of the Russian Federation in the coordinates W = 44 ° 50 'N, D = 36 ° 29' WD found the BAC "Nikopol" and "Berdyansk", going east in the direction of the Kerch Strait.

    At 03.45 am, the BAK "Nikopol" and "Berdyansk" approached the area where the ships of the Ukrainian Navy were located: the supply vessel "Gorlovka", the sea tug "Yany Kapu".

    Till 05.30 am, refueling of both LHCs from the Gorlovka support vessel was carried out.

    At 05.35 BAK "Berdyansk" (call sign "Schooner-175") reported to the technical observation post (m. Takil) about the planned passage of the ships of the Ukrainian Navy (tug "Yana Kapu" (call sign "Desna-947"), BAK "Nikopol" ( call sign "Schooner-176"), BAK "Berdyansk" (call sign "Schooner-175")) to the port of Berdyansk the Kerch Strait at 06.00 am Kiev time (07.00 Moscow time).

    At 05.45, the commander of Pska-302 informed the commander of the Berdyansk BAK: “In order to implement the right of the Russian Federation, as a coastal state, to ensure security in the maritime space in accordance with paragraph 2 of Art. 12 FZ-155 dated July 31, 1998 "About the WWII, TM and PZ RF" peaceful passage through the TM of the Russian Federation in the area (coordinates) is temporarily suspended, which you previously notified. We recommend that you do not cross the RF GG until the restrictions are lifted and mandatory regulations are fulfilled in the seaport of Kerch ”.

    At 05.50 information was received from the commander of the Berdyansk BAK: "In accordance with the provisions of the Treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine" On Cooperation in the Use of the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait of December 24, 2003 "we have the right to freedom of navigation."

    At 06.30, the commander of Pska-302 informed the commander of the BAK “Berdyansk” that in the Kerch-Yenikalya canal, a permissive procedure was in place to ensure the safety of navigation and was carried out in accordance with the approved captain of the Kerch plan. The application for passage of the strait is submitted in 48 and 24 hours, confirmed in 4 hours. These requirements are not met by the Ukrainian side. In this regard, following the Kerch-Yenikalsky Canal to the ships of the Ukrainian Navy is prohibited (in accordance with paragraphs 20, 38 of Mandatory Regulations in the seaport of Kerch, approved by order of the Ministry of Transport of Russia of October 21, 2015 No. 313, in the Kerch Strait there is a permit procedure for movement and parking ships).

    This group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy ignored this information and continued to follow in the direction of the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation.

    At 07.10 in the coordinates of W = 44 ° 52 'N, D = 36 ° 31' VD, the Ukrainian Navy ships crossed the line of the state border of the Russian Federation, proceeding to the Kerch Strait (in violation of paragraph 3 of Article 25 of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, clause 2 of article 12 of the Federal Law of 31.07.1998 No. 155-ФЗ “On Inland Sea Waters, Territorial Sea”
    and the adjacent zone of the Russian Federation ”).

    From 07.20 pskr "Don", pskr "Emerald" took measures to prevent the passage of ships of the Ukrainian Navy Kerch-Yenikalsky channel, called Ukrainian ships by radio, demanded to leave the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation immediately (in accordance with Article 30 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea 1982 of the year). Requirements to leave the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation by the courts of the Ukrainian Navy were ignored.

    At 08.35 the ships of the Ukrainian Navy were brought to combat readiness: the artillery installations were uncovered, the artillery barrels were raised at an angle of 45 degrees and directed towards the ships and boats of the Russian Federation (in violation of Art. 19 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea of ​​1982, para. 2 of . 11 FZ-155 dated July 31, 1998 “On WWII, TM and PZ RF”). The Russian side informed the ships of the Ukrainian Navy that in the TM of the Russian Federation the threat of the use of weapons would be regarded as a violation of international law and the laws of the Russian Federation.

    At 10.35 a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy in the coordinates W = 46 ° 09 NL, D = 36 ° 33 VD reported to the headquarters of the naval base "Ochakovo" of the Ukrainian Navy that they were caught by coast guard ships of the FSB of Russia FSB, it was difficult to tug, boats offered type "Gyurza" at maximum speeds come off and go beyond the fairway.

    From 10.35 to 18.30, as a result of the maneuvering of the Russian border ships, a group of Ukrainian naval vessels was blocked in the vicinity of anchorage No. 471 (south of the Kerch Strait).

    At 18.30 a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy in order to break through the blocking took off from the drift, began to move 200 degrees to exit the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation, the speed of the tank Berdyansk, Nikopol - 20 knots, MB Yany Kapu - 8 knots. Pskr "Don", Pskr "Izumrud" began the persecution of a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy, brought to them the requirement to stop (in accordance with Article 30 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea of ​​1982, from paragraph 2 of Article 12 of the Federal Law of 07/31/1998 No. 155 - FZ "On the inland marine waters, the territorial sea and the contiguous zone of the Russian Federation").

    In the period from 19.00 to 20.40 pskr "Don", pskr "Emerald" continued to prosecute a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy, a call to communicate on channel 16 of the VHF band, sending sound, light and pyrotechnic signals about the stop. The group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy did not comply with the requirements for stopping; they did not contact the communications (in violation of clause 2 of Article 12 of the Federal Law of 31.07.1998 No. 155-ФЗ “On Inland Sea Water, Territorial Sea and Adjacent Zone of the Russian Federation”, 30 of the Law of the Russian Federation of April 1, 1993 No. 4730-I “On the State Border of the Russian Federation”).

    At 20.42 pskr "Emerald" warned a group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy about the implementation of preventive shooting in case of continued ignoring signals and requirements for stopping (in accordance with Article 30 of the Law of the Russian Federation of April 1, 1993 No. 4730-I "On the State Border of the Russian Federation" , p. 9, 11 of the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of February 24, 2010 No. 80 “On approval of the Rules for the use of weapons and military equipment while protecting the state border of the Russian Federation, the exclusive economic zone and continental Russia Foot Shelf ").

    Due to the fact that the ships of the border agencies have exhausted all the measures necessary for the prevention of violations of the legislation of the Russian Federation by boats of the Ukrainian Navy, as well as in accordance with the Rules for the use of weapons and military equipment while protecting the state border of the Russian Federation, the exclusive economic zone and the continental the shelf of the Russian Federation, approved by Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of February 24, 2010 No. 80, the commander of the missile defense command "Izumrud" made a decision to carry out preventive shooting from an airborne artillery installation in the direction of the Ukrainian Navy ships.

    At 20.45 pskr "Emerald" in the coordinates of the Russian Federation W = 44 ° 53'47 SSh, D = 36 ° 25'76 VD in the territorial sea performed warning shots in the direction of the group goal (BAC "Berdyansk", "Nikopol", MB "Yany Kapu ") On the left side of the aft course corners from the Emerald center-line station from a distance of 2 kbt, which made it possible to see the fact of the execution of warning shooting
    (in accordance with clause 10,12,13 of the Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation of February 24, 2010 No. 80 “On Approval of the Rules for the Use of Weapons and Military Equipment while Protecting the State Border of the Russian Federation, the Exclusive Economic Zone and the Continental Shelf of the Russian Federation”). A group of vessels of the Ukrainian Navy did not respond to the requirements for stopping, did not contact the communication, continued to move towards the line of the state border of the Russian Federation.

    At 20.50 pskr "Emerald" warned BAK "Berdyansk" that in case of non-compliance with the requirements to stop on it will be used weapons to kill (in accordance with paragraph 24, 25 of the Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation of February 24, 2010 No. 80 "On the approval of the Rules use of weapons and military equipment while protecting the state border of the Russian Federation, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of the Russian Federation "). BAK "Berdyansk" stop requests ignored.

    At 20.55 pskr "Emerald" in the coordinates of W = 44 ° 51'3 SS, D = 36 ° 23'4 VD in the territorial sea used a weapon to defeat the LHC "Berdyansk".

    At 20.58 the BAK “Berdyansk” went into a drift, the commander of the boat got out on the phone, informed about the wounded on board, and asked for help.

    At 21.06 pskr "Izumrud" detained the BAC "Berdyansk", removed 7 crew members from it, including 3 wounded, who received first aid, to rescue the boat of the Ukrainian Navy the primary measures to fight for survivability were performed.

    At 21.15 pskr "Don" stopped and detained MB "Yany Kapu."

    At 21.27, the helicopter of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the Ka-52 in the territorial sea of ​​the Russian Federation, stopped the Nikopol tank, and the Suzdalets fleet of the Russian Black Sea Fleet approached the station to monitor its actions.

    At 23.21 pskr "Don" carried out the detention of the BAC "Nikopol".

    At 00.40 on November 26 of this year. PSKA-605 delivered the wounded soldiers of the Ukrainian Navy to the port of Kerch, the wounded were sent for treatment at the 1st Kerch city hospital.

    At 01.10 the convoy of the detained vessels of the Ukrainian Navy to the port of Kerch began.

    At 06.40, the detained vessels of the Ukrainian Navy were delivered to the port of Kerch for further investigation.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:38 am

    Astute comment

    Alex Mihailovich
    ????????
    ‏Verified account @real_alexm
    7h7 hours ago

    According to the Ukrainian government, there have been thousands of Russian troops in eastern Ukraine for years but martial law was never imposed. Instead, martial law is imposed over a boat scuffle just before the G20 summit and Ukraine elections. A little odd, no?

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:46 am

    One for you Russian readers. The poster is a RT correspondent.


    Murad Gazdiev
    ‏Verified account @MuradGazdiev
    8h8 hours ago

    Document reportedly found on Ukrainian vessel.

    “Maximize stealth on approach to Kerch strait through Waters patrolled by Russians”



    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 DtBZG66XcAAPGyF
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:28 pm

    This situation huh?.

    It's clear what happened, the vessels had a mission. To provoke the Russians into actions, The Ukrainian Counter Intel Agents on board weren't listed on any Crew manifest (I saw it)

    I have seen this before you send guys on last minute, they will then issue orders given to them verbally and handed a document that trashed afterward. This makes it so any proof such an order was given cannot be found, even if the Sailor tell the truth in Custody who will believe them?. They are being held and charged, You can easily say Russia made them say that.

    Even when the killing in Ukraine was at it's highest point he never declared martial law, why declare it now with such an incident.

    Ukraine had everything to gain.

    Russia had nothing.

    Doesn't take a genius to see this, even if you look at it purely from the news perspective.

    But let me be clear this was done on orders, Poro is only doing what he is told.

    However, it's incorrect to assume this was done to postpone elections Frankly this alone cannot do that.

    I need everyone to put on their thinking caps and THINK HARD.

    What else in the world is about to happen involving Russia, let's see who can spot the bigger picture.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.........
    I need everyone to put on their thinking caps and THINK HARD.

    What else in the world is about to happen involving Russia, let's see who can spot the bigger picture.

    I honestly don't see what would require this as pretext.

    Anything involving Russia gets rubber-stamped by default for years now, hell longer.

    Unless the want to reactive V-corps and park it on Russian border I don't see why they needed this. And even they did they would need bigger setup than this clownshow.
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    Post  franco Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:18 pm

    The only strategic play that comes to mind is forcing Trump not to meet with Putin in Argentina.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:54 pm

    franco wrote:The only strategic play that comes to mind is forcing Trump not to meet with Putin in Argentina.

    That is one of the things, the meeting between them was meant to see if the IMF treaty is resumed, without that treaty we can park our Nukes so close to their borders making reacting in time even harder for them. We have obeyed the treaty at least in the nuclear sense. This is something we cannot rubber stamp, long has the IMF treaty is in place hands really are tied there.

    Other things include the fact Trump has withheld the transfer of heavier weapons to Ukraine and talks and plans of bigger arms shipments are in the works,

    There are other smaller details like the fact the IMF has a little deal an SBA of about 5B for Ukraine, There is someone running against Poro with an Anti IMF Platform, who has shown willing to cut a deal with Putin in exchange for cash and other perks like improved export access. If this person wins and they have a good chance to, There is a very high chance Ukraine falls back under Russian orbit and this time they will dig their teeth into it and not let go. If that person wins no IMF funds, and no IMF to be fair assuming they stay true to their words which has always is possible they aren't but the fact are we doing this suggests there is real concern over it and a possibility and if there is a good enough possibility that's all the excuse we need to act.

    Poro ratings are so terrible we can't even fix the election for him, he is going to be replaced. The only issue is who we can get to replace him and derailing the other person. The incident isn't about stopping the election just creating a smoke screen for us to act.

    There are military issues but those are the ones, I'll share for now


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  George1 Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:58 pm

    The official Russian version of the incident with the Ukrainian boats in the Kerch Strait area

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3430077.html

    PapaDragon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:36 am


    If two sides actually want to resume IMF treaty they don't need to meet in person to do so, it's not 19th century.

    And if they want to ditch it then parking missiles works both ways, maybe not for USA proper but definitely for Europe with all hippie problems down the road.

    It's unlikely that Pentagon actually believes that they can perform decapitation strike on Russia especially with current level of electronic surveillance. You can't just launch missiles without anyone knowing, and expecting to avoid retaliation. Hell even if they remove 95% of Russian nuclear triad that still leaves enough nuclear fire to send USA down the crapper permanently and to deliver this planet to China.

    And let's not​ forget that scrapping IMF treaty is something that Russia will hardly be against. There are massive perks for them as well.

    As for the Ukraine, it does make sense of situation is how you describe it but who the hell in that place has support of more than single digit percentage of electorate?

    I am honestly asking because I don't follow the Ukrainian politics.
    George1
    George1


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  George1 Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:18 am

    Russian forces in the defense of the Kerch Strait during the incident with the Ukrainian boats

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 6236078_original

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    VARGR198
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  VARGR198 Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:26 pm

    Ukrainian child labour
    https://twitter.com/TamrikoT/status/1068152819868360704

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #27 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #27

    Post  Sponsored content


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