S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

Bunch of pics & vid of S-x00 missile building http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2386148.html

What's the missile at 2:18 ??




edit: I found by myself, it's 51T6 SH-11 Gorgon missile.

Isos wrote:What's the missile at 2:18 ??




edit: I found by myself, it's 51T6 SH-11 Gorgon missile.

At 6:01 they need four worker for final assy because they use the crane, instead of a modified pump truck .

On moving the part, one handling the crane, two lifting to level the fin assy.

They using overheads cranes everywhere.

Lot of opportunuty to cut the manufacturing cost.

Development of new Russian S-500 air defense missile system proceed as scheduled.

Works on the development of the S-500 air defense missile system proceed as scheduled, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Tuesday, January 31, 2017. The S-500 nicknamed Prometheus is a new generation of surface-to-air defense missile system.


"Works on these systems proceed as scheduled. We did have certain technical problems linked with tests of newest-generation sea-and ground-based missiles, but now these problems have been resolved thanks to the research and technical board of the Defense Industry Commission, the Russian Academy of Sciences, the Almaz-Antey Concern. So, we are moving forward," he told journalists when asked when S-500 systems would become operational.

Rogozin said experts are now analyzing the experience of the use of weapons against terrorists in Syria. "The key task now is to organize mass production of these weapons for our army at Almaz-Antey enterprises. It is yet to be decided how to organize production at the existing facilities with minimum investment instead of building new plants," he said, adding that this issue is to be resolved by late February.

Five batteries of S-500 missiles are planned to be in service by 2020. The S-500s will work with S-400s and will replace S-300 air defence missiles. The first units will be deployed around Moscow and the country's central area.

The S-500 "Prometheus" (Russian name 55R6M Triumfator-M) is the latest generation of Russian-made surface-to-air defense missile system, currently under development by the Russian Defense Company Almaz-Antey company. According to Russian sources, the S-500 is an advanced version of S-400 with dedicated components designed to intercept ballistic missiles at a height of up to 200 km.

The S-500 is expected to have an extended range of up to 600 km (over 370 miles) and simultaneously engage up to 10 targets. The system will be capable of destroying hypersonic and ballistic targets.

Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/february_2017_global_defense_security_army_news_industry/development_of_new_russian_s-500_air_defense_missile_system_proceed_as_scheduled_10102171.html

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That scale model of the TEL looks cool, it is good to see the system's final look begin to surface. I think that in the near future (by around the early/mid 2020s) there will be an S-500 regiment in every Air Defense Division of the VKS.

I never understood the excitement of people in this forum for Russia deployments 
of S-400s in their territory. whats this all about? 

If US gov ever goes full retard and want to start a world war 3 with Russia.
Then those S-400s ,S-300s , Pantsirs will be pretty much USELESS to intercept a rain
of trident missiles in a preventive nuclear first strike attack of a couple of dozen missiles.

So if seems as if some people believe Russia will be "Safer" the more S-400s and S-300s 
they deploy.     Russia already have too much of them ,because nobody will invade Russia
in a conventional war. and if anyone use Nukes , Russia will retaliate with nukes forcing the enemy to stop. This means that the probability S-400s /S-300s/TORS/BUKS/Pantsirs could
play in the case of a nuclear war with NATO to defend Russia could next to ZERO

So it doesn't makes a difference if Russia deploy a million more of those missiles , they are
Air Defenses systems. NOT space defense. were not designed to intercept high altitude Tridents.
or minutemans. 

In the other hand S-500s deployment , A-235 ,any kind of mid course interceptor and any Energy weapons to intercept the attacks of NATO nuclear attack submarines is a different story.  Because this is what Russia needs to fight Americans most lethal weapons ,that is Space interceptors. 

Cruise missiles also could have nukes but Russia already can counter those with Tors and Pantsirs. they are not really difficult to intercept.

Destroyers with midcourse interceptors, energy weapons or high altitude planes with energy weapons to destroy ICBMs is what will make Russia truly defend its territory .by knocking down
NATO ICBMS way before before they reach Russia territory. I will consider far better ,that Russia builds a HUGE lazer in moscow and St petersburg on top of a mountain , and that could fry ,burn ,turn off the engine or damage any Missile in space anything flying up to 100km to 300km distance. or the low orbit. that will truly be game changing in Space defense.

Any full scale war between Russia and US will not involve tanks or combat jets ,neither special forces .. or s-300s or s-400s. the most lethal attacks will come from US silos and submarines Trident missiles. . and this is where Russia needs to heavily invest , in space defenses. S-500s is a good step in the right direction. and Electromagnetic gun Kret is working for satellites the second step. Russia needs a very long range energy weapon ,that will seal the space zone above its territory. This later will be really exciting , because energy weapons can cover a large area at same time ,and they dont fail like a missile can do. Lazers or other energy guns can destroy an ICBM and all its fake targets if manage to shutdown their engines and fry its electronics. that will be really Over powered and help Russia win a nuclear war.

A strong conventional forces is needed to deter nuclear war which mean strong conventional air defence.

Its no brainy here that any one nuking russia would get retaliated in kind by russian.

NATO has conducted simulated sub nucler conflict according to Rogozin where 6000 conventional precision weapons would be used simultanously along with Prompt Global Strike capability to take out many Conventional Industrial and Nuclear Target which would deter Russia from using Nuclear Weapons.

So deter multiple conventional strikes from air land and sea Russia would needs thousands of S-300 , 400 ,500 and Pantisir , BUK etc that would keep Nuclear Forces getting hit by conventional weapons and would deter NATO using conventional strikes against Russia

Austin wrote:A strong conventional forces is needed to deter nuclear war which mean strong conventional air defence.

Its no brainy here that any one nuking russia would get retaliated in kind by russian.

NATO has conducted simulated sub nucler conflict according to Rogozin where 6000 conventional precision weapons would be used simultanously along with Prompt Global Strike capability to take out many Conventional Industrial and Nuclear Target which would deter Russia from using Nuclear Weapons.

So deter multiple conventional strikes from air land and sea Russia would needs thousands of S-300 , 400 ,500 and Pantisir , BUK etc that would keep Nuclear Forces getting hit by conventional weapons and would deter NATO using conventional strikes against Russia

Energy weapons will be much more efficient than having thousands of missiles. To blind the gps navigation system and radio communications because those cruise missiles needs to be guided
by radio and corrected its trajectory by radio. So in that case Russia needs not thousands of S-400s but powerful energy guns that can cover all Russia territory and burn the electronics and turn off the engine of any cruise missile. So the bomb will NOT activate and explode. unless is mechanical the detonator.

Vann7 wrote:

Austin wrote:A strong conventional forces is needed to deter nuclear war which mean strong conventional air defence.

Its no brainy here that any one nuking russia would get retaliated in kind by russian.

NATO has conducted simulated sub nucler conflict according to Rogozin where 6000 conventional precision weapons would be used simultanously along with Prompt Global Strike capability to take out many Conventional Industrial and Nuclear Target which would deter Russia from using Nuclear Weapons.

So deter multiple conventional strikes from air land and sea Russia would needs thousands of S-300 , 400 ,500 and Pantisir , BUK etc that would keep Nuclear Forces getting hit by conventional weapons and would deter NATO using conventional strikes against Russia

Energy weapons will be much more efficient than having thousands of missiles. To blind the gps navigation system and radio communications because those cruise missiles needs to be guided
by radio and corrected its trajectory by radio. So in that case Russia needs not thousands of S-400s but powerful energy guns that can cover all Russia territory and burn the electronics and turn off the engine of any cruise missile. So the bomb will NOT activate and explode. unless is mechanical the detonator.

The GPS is cheaper than the alternatives.

But it is possible to target something without GPS precisely.

See original tomahawk navigation system.


And the energy weapons are weaker than a nuclear EMP, means the military equipment protected against them.

For those who want to know more about how S-300/400 works, this is a link to an other forum about a simulation game where there is this guy, Hpasp, who served air defense in Hungary and he explains very well with nice pictures how all these things works.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3900842/all/S-300PS/PMU_(SA-10B_Grumble)

I know it's forbidden but it's far better explained than what we can found on this forum. And there are lot of picture illustrating the s-300 system.

Inida wants S-400 without offset so they could get them faster

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/to-speed-up-deliveries-russias-s-400-air-defence-system-may-come-without-offset-package/articleshow/57260971.cms

The cost is around 5 billion $ for "5 S-400".

George1 wrote:Defense Ministry reports fifth S-400 regiment put on combat duty in Moscow region

More:
http://tass.com/defense/932044

Selenograd (= 584 RGT)
http://solreg.ru/news3/7403.html

Mass shooting of 12 missiles on the Ashuluk polygon...presumably the Elektrostal regiment.

Viktor wrote:

franco wrote:And you are optimistic to the end...  

Haha thats right, you can not go against your own nature

Well after the SSSR breakup Russia had about 200+ S-300 batteries and that could be very conservative number anyway up to 2000 launchers /200+ batteries is the low end of suspected number. So you see, Russia does not have 24 of anything. We can discuss in hundreds  but in tens just does not work when referring to Russia. Its simply a wrong number. Russia has abt 400 nuclear tipped SAM missiles and that also does not fit your 24 battery PM2 count.

The philosophy of Russian aerospace forces ORBAT does not allow you to count all there is Thats my 24 cents

Remember when Syria was attacked at the begging  and Russian general said that Syria needs 12  S-300 batteries for the protection of the country of its size and expected enemies. I can not  see how by multiplying that number by only 2 Russia would settle for a country of its size and expected enemies.

I believe that Russia thinks that having around 200-250 batteries of S-300P/V/400 all are about the right number.

We can't forget VKS has so many S-300 series in stock that they've been giving them away for free to CSTO members Kazakhstan, Armenia and Belarus which suggests that they have plenty of launchers to spare.

We can't forget VKS has so many S-300 series in stock that they've been giving them away for free to CSTO members Kazakhstan, Armenia and Belarus which suggests that they have plenty of launchers to spare.

They are outdated by russian standards thats why they give them. Missiles are old so they wont use them and risk that one missile explodes and destroys the luncher. Radars are old for implementing them in the new systems.

If the new sytems can't survive during a modern war, older ones won't be better. Maintaining such a fleet in reserve is useless and costly.

Isos wrote:

We can't forget VKS has so many S-300 series in stock that they've been giving them away for free to CSTO members Kazakhstan, Armenia and Belarus which suggests that they have plenty of launchers to spare.

They are outdated by russian standards thats why they give them. Missiles are old so they wont use them and risk that one missile explodes and destroys the luncher. Radars are old for implementing them in the new systems.

If the new sytems can't survive during a modern war, older ones won't be better. Maintaining such a fleet in reserve is useless and costly.

So what your saying is that they gave faulty ready to blow up S-300's to their allies who are already in a unified aerospace defense network designed by Russian VKS, that's great logic from you..... BTW do you realize how many systems are technically old hold overs from the Soviet era? There are countless systems from the Soviet era that get modernization packages, so your basically clutching straws to make a point here.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Isos wrote:

We can't forget VKS has so many S-300 series in stock that they've been giving them away for free to CSTO members Kazakhstan, Armenia and Belarus which suggests that they have plenty of launchers to spare.

They are outdated by russian standards thats why they give them. Missiles are old so they wont use them and risk that one missile explodes and destroys the luncher. Radars are old for implementing them in the new systems.

If the new sytems can't survive during a modern war, older ones won't be better. Maintaining such a fleet in reserve is useless and costly.

So what your saying is that they gave faulty ready to blow up S-300's to their allies who are  already in a unified aerospace defense network designed by Russian VKS, that's great logic from you..... BTW do you realize how many systems are technically old hold overs from the Soviet era? There are countless systems from the Soviet era that get modernization packages, so your basically clutching straws to make a point here.

I never said that they are ready to blow up I said they are old missiles and (physic laws) their state is not reliable. Those countries are full of generals who will sell all the systems they have to USA. Russian forces are not really counting on them in case of a war. They are like early warning states that will give some days to russian forces to build its forces.

During the USSR and Warsow pact, I think it was Romania, they agree with USA not to Attack each other in case of a war.

There is a video of an Ukrainian Toshka's engine exploding before the lunch. It was an old missile, stocked during many years.

What's the point of upgrading old missiles, while they have factories that produce them day and night ?

A modernization costs as much as a new system, specially for S-300 like systems. Russia won't give a free new or updated system to anyone. If they do so everyone will start asking reduction or free systems too.

Isos wrote:

We can't forget VKS has so many S-300 series in stock that they've been giving them away for free to CSTO members Kazakhstan, Armenia and Belarus which suggests that they have plenty of launchers to spare.

They are outdated by russian standards thats why they give them. Missiles are old so they wont use them and risk that one missile explodes and destroys the luncher. Radars are old for implementing them in the new systems.

If the new sytems can't survive during a modern war, older ones won't be better. Maintaining such a fleet in reserve is useless and costly.

You can easily put new missiles and modernize the equipment. Russians can do it in no time and it really is the way things are done.

"Old" systems are given for free and the state that receives them pays for its modernization thus gaining to a Russian PM2 standard S-300 system which is excellent only

for the price of its modernization. Russia got some money while getting rid of the systems that where already written off and the country that has received them got the

brutally good system that is unified within the Russian Aerospace Forces network.

franco wrote:Believe he is talking about the 300PS which cannot be upgraded to the 300PM or PMU. Their missiles are no longer produced and have all reached their live expectancy. They can receive live extensions (5-10 years) at the plant but that cannot continue forever.

S-300PM2 can use almost all of the missiles from S-400 so it does not matter. There will be no old missiles.

- How is the development of a new air defense system S-500?

- First, the C-400, C-400 is now the new missile, then C-500. This is our work plans are implemented. It means protecting our cities from attack. From previous air defense systems S-500 will be different actions range and efficiency defeat all the aerodynamic and ballistic targets.

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=2&nid=443583

What S-400 is to S-300P, S-500 will be to S-300V.

Other than that we have modernization program of S-300V4 and with more modern components but on the same basis Antey-3500 coming online as per Almaz-Antey.

George1 wrote:

Viktor wrote:What S-400 is to S-300P, S-500 will be to S-300V.

Other than that we have modernization program of S-300V4 and with more modern components but on the same basis Antey-3500 coming online as per Almaz-Antey.

i had the impression that S-500 would be a new missile (no development of any previous s-300/400) and mainly anti-ballistic

You are right. But such a system will probably able to do what S-300/400 can do. But the main goal is anti ballistic role.

The price should very high so they won't use them for overkill while they have S-350 and S-300/400 for air defence.

The best part is that they will connect all these system so even if they don't use them for air defence, it can provide data with its state of art radars for the other systems.

S-300V was just an S-300P for the ground army and not a part of the air defense forces. If I'm correct, just the last versions were "anti ballistic", while last version of S-300Pmu1/2/400 are also capable of "anti ballistic mode".

S-500 is totaly new with cinetic warhead equiped missile.