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    T-90 Main Battle Tank

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    Mindstorm

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    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:50 am

    Austin wrote:Thanks Mindstorm , This might be of interest to you

    http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/97752.html


    Andrey is a very,very,very knowledgeable person ,but i have more than some element for believe that ,in this istance, it has emited a sentence without enough data and at "hot".

    Very likely what has deceived him is this image (the little image high on the right) ,showing side turrett dynamic protection module internal arrangement in a deceiving way




    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 12 T-90MS_eng-13


    Naturally even only the central image can provide a clear idea of the top shape of the turrett as ,naturally a frontal photo form high of the turrett of the T-90MS


    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 12 Tank-212

    The draw of the turrett in its blog appear totally out of lines (likely also a product of the deceiving images from the side of the commander hatch...)


    Russia wont buy T-90AM will upgrade T-72 at $1.1 million per tank

    In my opinion this choice follow the same route selected in the past for Russian Air Force with the decision to don't induct in any significant number SU-30M, to spare crucial resources for R&D and future mass production of the new generation system .
    Very likely Russian Army will modernize 1500-2000 unities sparing resources for finish the development and mass produce the new generation unified platform "Armata", we must remember that in the pasts Russian Army high officials have very often repeated that T-90 was considered by Russian Army, a stop-gap platform before the induction of the new generation MBT and ,how well explained by Viktor Ivanovich Mokruhin in its interview ,it seem that this point is not changed (it appear,in facts, that russian requirements for protection would be outside the possibilities even of the internal version T-90AM !!!!).

    Moreover the same Viktor Ivanovich Mokruhin has confirmed that the new turrett and under turrett combat compartement with the new autoloader can be used for modernization of T-72Bs and early T-90s , therefore my bets are all for this choice for the T-72 modernization program now announced ,at least for 4-5 years from now.




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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:11 am

    Garry, the below press release is interesting and will interest you as it is related to the upgrading of T-72.
    Someone had earlier posted the Russian version of this news in this thread. The English version is here below.

    Thanks for that...

    What does that mean? Armata is a design/project that is continually evolved from the T-90? I personally don't have a problem with it as my personal opinion is that the basic T-72/90 is a good design and can evolve further.

    Keep in mind these companies are tasked with developing and integrating the electronics and communications in Russian tanks, from the new stuff for Armata to stuff for the T-90AM and upgrades of older vehicles.
    Not just tanks in fact... all armoured vehicles... this is the Army equivalent of the Sigma system for the Navy.

    The Armata is a tank designed from scratch, but its electronics will be the best they can develop, and the best they can develop they no doubt put in the T-90AM.
    They will be continually improving it, making it more effective, smaller and lighter, cheaper, more capable etc etc.
    They will also need to get them into service and make them compatible, so the T-72 upgrade software and hardware needs to be able to communicate with all vehicles in a way that is seamless. A T-72 commander should have all the same capabilities and options as the commander of a T-90AM or Armata... a bit like the internet really... you need a phone line and a modem or router of some sort to connect. The computer you are using to connect to the internet could be an old Apple IIe, or an Amiga 500, or a Cray super computer... the people you are sending emails to probably wont be able to tell the difference.

    This company is developing the software and hardware for the Russian Armys new brigades and it says that 5 different hardware and software setups have been developed, and these will be put in to different vehicles. For instance there will be one setup for tanks, which will have options and capabilities relevant to a tank commander. "tanks" in the Heavy, Medium, and Light Brigades will get that same setup. Obsolete vehicles can become part of the brigade by getting the same software and hardware setup, so an upgraded T-72, a T-90A and an Armata might operate for a time in the same brigade and have the same setup so they can communicate and cooperate.

    It is basically a C4IR system with 5 different versions... one for tanks and tank like vehicles, one for troop carriers, one for armoured recovery vehicles and support vehicles, one for artillery vehicles, one for air defence vehicles perhaps, or the artillery and air defence might have a similar setup and there might be a special command setup for command vehicles.
    The platform doesn't matter, so for instance a 2S23 Sprut like vehicle would have a tank setup because its role is as a (light) tank. BMPs and BTRs will have a troop carrier setup... whether they are Typhoons in light brigades, Boomerangs and Kurganets-25s in the medium brigades or Armatas in the heavy brigades.

    Of course in the heavy brigades now while there are no Armatas then they might buy some BTR-Ts to operate with T-90s as they share the chassis base which would offer better armour and chassis commonality and better protection over the BMP-3.

    If they are going to save money not buying T-90AMs now and upgrade T-72s then they might also save money by converting T-72s with old turrets into BTR-T vehicles to benefit from commonality but gaining armour protection over the alternative of BMPs and BTR-82s.

    In the medium brigades the BTR-82s and BMP-3s will likely be used till the Boomerangs and Kurganets-25s become available in numbers... the Kurganets-25s are the tracked models so it will be very interesting to see how they are armed... like BMP-3Ms or new 45mm guns or 57mm guns with new ammo...

    Even if its the T-72 that is getting upgraded, it should not worry as that maybe cost effective for the Russians. Moreover, the T-72 upgrade (& T-90S upgrade) is having common systems. Or basically what UVZ developed for a complete/thorough upgrade of T-72 earlier are what got into the T-90SM/AM modernization, along with completely new turret for the T-90MS. If the upgrade of T-72 for Russian Army include the new turret then it would be great.

    UVZ will likely be too busy performing upgrades to worry about not producing T-90AMs at the moment.

    Of course in the future it all depends on the Armata and its cost... if it is expensive the next upgrade for the "T-72s" might be T-90AM related or simply a further updated T-90AM turret on an older chassis.

    Even from the earlier pictures of the T-72 upgrade we can see few things that is on the T-90MS.
    1) the new gun with muzzle reference.
    2) rear hull mounted APU
    3) armor slope on glacis make it look like it is with Relikt
    4) a/c (hope so as it is covered)
    5) full cover side skirts & Fence against RPGs

    I agree, the "new stuff" applied to the AM that isn't too fancy and expensive could be applied to the T-72 upgrade.
    They developed a new Russian AC system and would expect that will be fitted to Russian production tanks.

    And its highly possible that the upgrade might involve the Kalina FCS & BMS that we see with the T-90MS.

    Most of the electronics will need to be added to make the upgraded T-72 compatible with the new C4IR system.

    Very likely Russian Army will modernize 1500-2000 unities sparing resources for finish the development and mass produce the new generation unified platform "Armata", we must remember that in the pasts Russian Army high officials have very often repeated that T-90 was considered by Russian Army, a stop-gap platform before the induction of...

    The Russians talked about having the T-90 as the back bone of the Russian military well into the 2025 period in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
    Keep in mind this was when the T-95 program was live and military spending was almost non existent.
    The plans then were for 5-6,000 tanks in storage with about 2,000 operational, and even then I think the plans were for lots of upgraded T-72s, plus T-90s with the brand new tank T-95 entering service in low rate production.

    Now the T-95 was known to be expensive and I doubt the Armata will be cheap as such.

    The often ignored component here is the 2,000 odd T-80s they have.

    Personally I think the plan will be to upgrade the T-72 and keep the T-80s in service and "use them up" without major upgrades, and of course there is gap till about 2015 for the Armata.

    Lets say they want a total force of 8,000 tanks they will have 2,000 odd T-80s though their numbers will decline in time likely to be ultimately replaced with Armatas or T-90s.

    I think by the time they have upgraded a few thousand T-72s and gotten Armata into production that the cost of the T-90AM upgrade would have reduced to the point where they might consider production of Armata and T-90AM or whatever it will be called in 5 years time, perhaps with an Armata chassis to end up with a force of Armatas and T-90s.

    The main purpose of the reforms was to get rid of all the low readiness units, so the operational units will get lots of practise so those T-80s and upgraded T-72s will get a bit of use and will likely be traded for more T-72s from stocks for the most part.

    The prestige units will be equipped with Armata and have upgraded T-72s in reserve, but for most other forces I would suspect that Armatas and T-90s will be put in reserve to protect them from general wear and tear of exercises.

    The Soviets had a practise of training tank crews on older tanks to save wear and tear (and ammo) on the newer vehicles, while still training the crews properly on real hardware.

    Digital training will greatly increase but will never replace real exercises with real hardware.

    It really all comes down to the cost of Armata as to whether all heavy brigades can be equipped with Armata vehicles or not. If not then the T-90AM has a shot in the future of being the replacement of the upgraded T-72s.
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    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:30 pm

    UPGRADED T-90S TANK
    Military Parade, No. 5, 2011

    According to JSC RPC Uralvagonzavod's press service

    The upgraded T-90S tank is the next step in the Russian tank industry development. The upgrade effort aimed to improve the whole set of the T-90S characteristics has significantly enhanced its combat and operational capabilities.

    Compared with the baseline model, the improved tank is heavier by 1.5 tons and weighs 48 tons, far less than the US M1A23ER and German Leopard 2A6, whose weights are respectively 62.5 and 62.4 tons. The new Russian vehicle uses the V-92S2 engine featuring increased power and longer life. Its power-to-weight ratio (24 hp per ton) is comparable with that of modern foreign tanks. For the first time, hand wheel steering and automatic transmission offering the ability to switch to manual transmission are used, thus reducing driver's physical workload, fuel consumption and improving acceleration performance of the armored vehicle. The maximum speed of the upgraded tank on a highway is at least 60 km/h, with ground pressure of not more than 0.98 kg/cm2. For comparison, the similar characteristics for the M1A23ER are 67 km/h and 1.08 kg/cm2, for Leopard 2A6 - 72 km/h and 1.08 kg/cm2. To enhance the mobility and maneuverability, the upgraded T-90S carries a driver's combined infrared night viewer with the optical, thermal imaging and TV channels. There is also a rearview camera.

    The fighting turret module of the upgraded tank accommodates two of the three crew members - commander and gunner. The module is equipped with a highly automated armament control system and provides effective firing range, ready to fire time, target detection and recognition range at night surpassing those achieved in the world's best tank models. The plasma devices and a panoramic sight give the commander an all-round field of view. An all-round video surveillance system provides the same opportunity to the gunner, too. The commander has the ability to destroy enemy tank-killing personnel, ATGM crews using a remotely controlled, stabilized machine gun mount when the tank is in standing position and on the move, regardless of the main armament and the time of day. With the range up to 1500 m for any turret position, the firing angle range is -10 to +45 deg in elevation, 316 deg in azimuth.

    The tank is armed with the 125mm 2A46M-5 gun featuring higher accuracy of fire. Its total ammunition load is at least 40 rounds, including 22 ready-to-fire rounds. The gun barrel is chromium-lined, its life is 1.7 times longer and ensures muzzle velocity and accuracy consistency.

    The tank's protection against conventional weapons has been also upgraded. Now this is frontal modular composite armor plating with improved explosive reactive armor (ERA), side armor plating with ERA and slat armor screens, and anti-spall liners on the inner surfaces in the fighting and driving compartments. The aerosol screening system is automatic with the ability to use manual mode. There is an electromagnetic protection system.

    The set of special equipment has been supplemented with an intra- and inter-vehicle communication control system, a digital communications channel, satellite and inertial navigation systems, VHF radio with two independent links (2 VHF in one case), as well as an auxiliary power unit. The tank is equipped with an air conditioner to create comfortable conditions in the fighting and driving compartments.

    The latest generation tank of the T-90 series is surely superior to its predecessors in key combat effectiveness indicators. These are primarily much higher target kill capabilities, enhanced protection against antitank weapons, a reliable life-support system, and improved mobility.

    A powerful manufacturing base and the available skilled personnel ensure necessary servicing of the tanks built by JSC Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation, both in Russia and abroad.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:19 pm

    WORLD'S TANK INDUSTRY FLAGSHIP URALVAGONZAVOD TURNS 75

    Author: Vyacheslav Khalitov

    Vyacheslav Khalitov - Deputy Director General of JSC RPC Uralvagonzavod

    This year JSC RPC Uralvagonzavod marks its 75th anniversary. Throughout its history, one of the biggest industrial complexes in Russia has been known for its high scientific, technical and intellectual capabilities, while its innovative rolling stock, special machinery and other products have had a heavy impact on the development of domestic machine-building industry.

    The construction of Uralvagonzavod began in 1931 and already on 11 October 1936 the plant launched a car assembly line, from which the first large capacity cars rolled off. This day is considered the official birthday of Uralvagonzavod.

    Since the beginning of the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945 its peaceful car-oriented production was totally converted to tank production and by the end of 1941 the first T-34 tank already rolled off the line. During the war Uralvagonzavod shipped a combat vehicle to the front every half hour and a train of "thirty-fours" a day. No other tank plant in the world has ever boasted such performance.

    After the war Uralvagonzavod was converted again to manufacture cars, while simultaneously maintaining and improving defense production. The words "unique", "first", "single" can be applied to each subsequent Uralvagonzavod-designed tank (T-34, T-35, and T-62). In those years, the Tagil enterprise was also actively assimilating the production of cryogenic products. Its mobile fueling equipment provided the successful launches of a number of satellites, automatic space probes and Vostok spacecraft with the world's first cosmonaut aboard, as well as the implementation of other projects important for world astronautics.

    In the 1970s, the Tagil plant produced the T-72 tank, recognized later as the most widely deployed tank today: the "seventy-two" is currently in service with the armies of more than 40 countries.

    The main achievement of Uralvagonzavod's designers in the 1990s, which proved difficult for the whole country, was the development and production of the T-90A, currently the main battle tank of the Russian Army, and sale of its export version, the T-90S, abroad, as well as launching civilian goods - new kinds of road construction, agricultural and cryogenic machinery - into production.

    Today, Nizhny Tagil Upalvagonzavod is the parent enterprise of JSC Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation, an integrated entity consolidating more than 20 industrial enterprises, design bureaus and research institutes in five federal districts of Russia. The Corporation is the domestic leader in the rail freight transport market -every third car on Russian railroads carries the UVZ brand; this is also the sole manufacturer of armored vehicles in Russia today. The Corporation has been consistently ranked among the Top 100 biggest defense industrial companies in the world. About 100,000 combat vehicles have rolled off from Uralvagonzavod's line and this is certainly a record in the history of world tank industry.
    page 48

    Military Parade interview with Vyacheslav G. Khalitov, RPC Uralvagonzavod's Deputy Director General for special equipment.

    Mr. Khalitov, what events in Uralvagonzavod's history do you think are most important?

    - The history of Uralvagonzavod is quite eventful. We do not forget it - this is the foundation on which everything rests. At the present stage, the decision to establish an armored holding around Uralvagonzavod was a major event for us. A new phase in the history of the enterprise started from this point.

    - What is your company today? What the formation of the Corporation has really brought and will bring in the future, in your opinion? What are the main goals and plans of the company?

    - JSC RPC Uralvagonzavod is a diversified machine-building complex, which manufactures a wide range of defense products, railway and construction equipment, equipment for the extractive industries.

    The Corporation management are elaborating the Uralvagonzavod Corporate Strategy 2020, which includes the Innovation Development Program 2020.

    The Program outlines a number of key tasks, whose implementation will enable the Corporation to develop as an innovation-oriented entity, will help fulfill the 2020 State Armaments Program as regards meeting the Russian Armed Forces' future needs for arms, military and special equipment (AMSE), and will comply with the Russia's Long-Term Social and Economic Development Concept 2020.

    Completing the formation of the Corporation as an armored holding company encompassing development, production, servicing and repair of land forces' equipment will expand the list of equipment supplied and the range and amount of services provided.

    - How do you assess the future of the Corporation?

    - The Corporation will grow and expand the existing product range for each of the product lines to improve the technical parameters of equipment and increase operational efficiency throughout the life cycle.

    Upgrade of the existing models of equipment or the development of all-new types of equipment is based on the requirements analysis of existing and potential customers, as well as considering the best world practices of foreign companies.

    - Tell us about the current situation with state defense order (SDO) for the company and the prospects for exports of special equipment.

    - Within SDO, the Russian Ministry of Defense has now no plans to buy new tanks, so in 2011 UVZ is being entirely involved in equipment upgrade, which is scheduled for 2012, too.

    In this situation, JSC Uralvagonzavod is focusing on expanding the geography of the deliveries of armored equipment and other special equipment on its basis, entering new markets, searching for and attracting potential buyers of military hardware, as well as promoting equipment service and upgrade programs.

    Since the Corporation was established, its enterprises have signed export contracts to supply defense-related products with over 20 countries.

    Under these contracts, foreign customers have received the T-90S tanks, armored recovery vehicles (BREM-1M and BREM-80U) and engineer vehicles (IMR-3M, BMR), as well as BMPT and TOS-1A vehicles. Work is underway to establish license production of T-90S tanks at foreign customer's premises. The T-72 tank upgrade projects have been prepared and are under implementation. Work continues on establishing joint ventures for after-sales service and repair of T-72, T-90S/SK tanks.

    What does the company offer our armed forces today?

    - Our experience, scientific, technological and production capabilities allow us to fulfill any tasks related to the AMSE production, upgrade and service assigned by Russia's Ministry of Defense.

    Please tell a few words about the upgraded T-90S tank first unveiled at the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil. What is its new index? What is its fundamental difference from its predecessors?

    - The upgraded T-90S is the next step in the development of the domestic tank engineering. The upgrade has touched the whole set of characteristics of the T-90C and significantly enhanced its combat and operational capabilities.

    In line with global trends the upgrade efforts were focused on enhancing its firepower - a new fighting module (a turret) has been developed. The module is equipped with a highly automated armament control system and provides high performance in terms of effective firing range, ready to fire time, target detection and identification range at night. The maximum armament efficiency has been achieved by giving equal target search opportunities to the gunner and the commander, which provides a highly effective "hunter-killer" capability.

    Mr. Khalitov, thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. Congratulations to you and the whole team of your renowned enterprise on the anniversary. We wish you health, success and prosperity!
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    Post  KRATOS1133 on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:57 pm

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    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:39 am

    Any information on how much does the ERA weight on T-90 tanks ?
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    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:40 am

    Information on T-90 turret design , What is the graphics there trying to tell ?

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2011/11/90_14.html
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    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:45 am

    Found it at TankNet

    http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=16551&st=80&p=582462&#entry582462

    Susorov published an article on T-90 evaluation from India, some of the results/requirements:

    - Summer 1999
    - 3 tanks
    - 2000 km without big problems
    - 1 tank was dispatched to Malaysian tests
    - 2500-3100 m APFSDS fire by Indian officers after 20 minutes familiarization
    - 3100 m firing at night by Indians
    - Armor tests from 100 m distance both turret and hull - without penetration
    - Crossing a 1.8m depth river without preparation.
    - T-90M can mount a 120mm NATO gun.
    - A march of 10-12 hours at 50°C.
    - Get inside a river 5m depth, turn off the engine, stay 1 hour under water. This was needed to check how Shtora and other systems outside tank would cope.
    - 24 missiles were fired at distances of 4-5kms, all hit target.
    - 2000 shots were fired by the gun.

    some information on Malaysia trials:

    - 19 June-21 Aug 2000
    - 2800 km march
    - Engine was taken out of tank in the jungle and repaired in 4 hours.
    - 65 km/h max
    - 30 km/h 30 sec accel
    - 5 m fording after 15 min preparation
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    Post  Austin on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:46 am

    Makes A Nice read

    T-90 main battle tank
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    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:19 pm

    Since our residential expert Mindstorm is MIA , I was looking at armour protection level for side and rear of T-90 and this is what one of poster responded

    http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=16551&view=findpost&p=905048
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    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:34 pm

    Here is a better view of T-90 turret from Gur Khan Blog , It seems the side armour is not very thick

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2011/11/90_14.html

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eTih0gDZC0k/TsFZghqIF6I/AAAAAAAACCo/wDgsKY3T_HI/s1600/kolpak.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uLSTz76ugS4/TsFZhFyqkhI/AAAAAAAACCw/jxv2iTUBxrM/s1600/razrabotki_ok.jpg
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:06 pm

    Very simply Austin there are no free meals in physics.

    To keep the weight down they can't protect the tank from all angles, which means side and rear protection will always suffer.

    It is likely improved over earlier models, but even western tanks don't have the same level of side protection as they have from the front.
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    Post  KRATOS1133 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:15 pm

    T-90MS walkaround Cool
    http://magicmodels.ru/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=viewcategory&catid=51&startpage=1&Itemid=51&lang=en#category
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    Post  Austin on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:04 am

    Yeah the Army is banking on Arjun Mk2 , Livefist has that quoting the Army General.

    Its good to see Arjun go and hopefully production goes up for Mk2 , it will also do good for T-90. As many perceive Arjun is a casulty of T-90 and hence hate T-90 although it has nothing to do with it.

    ERA has been put on known weak spots specially the side turret and top , front turret is surprise but perhaps they want to beef it up.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:13 am

    EDIT: Can't post link. The video is on GurKhan's blog, December 6th.

    Nice video, T-90A, with Sosvezdye-2m. Characteristic screen in commander's spot @ 1:29.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:25 am

    ERA has been put on known weak spots specially the side turret and top , front turret is surprise but perhaps they want to beef it up.

    If they are going to put ERA on it, for a minor weight increase... why not put it on the front and improve frontal armour.

    Sounds perfectly sensible to me.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:31 am

    GarryB wrote:
    ERA has been put on known weak spots specially the side turret and top , front turret is surprise but perhaps they want to beef it up.

    If they are going to put ERA on it, for a minor weight increase... why not put it on the front and improve frontal armour.

    Sounds perfectly sensible to me.

    Well the funny thing is, some Indians (cough Bharat Rakshak forum) (not Austin and the sensible crowd) were throwing around these silly accusations of the T-90 being a tin can, and one of the more absurd arguments was that T-90 needed ERA to compete frontally, while Arjun was good as is, being a heavier, and thicker turreted vehicle. Ostensibly, this showed that Arjun was better armored. And now, Arjun 2 is intended to have ERA over frontal arc...oooops. Smile
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:56 am

    Hehehe... I love it when reality makes stupid ideas look stupid.

    The simple reality is that armour and penetrator is a fluid battle, but the frontal armour of tanks is largely fixed, so things like ERA are a good way to delay the necessity for a new frontal armour package.

    Another aspect is that there is no practical limit as to how thick the T-90s frontal armour can be... they could simply add layered armour till it offers the same level of protection as western tanks... the problem is that this will make the tank closer in weight to the western tanks and they clearly don't want that.

    The solution they have gone with is to use less fixed armour and to use ERA on top to make up the practical difference.

    Advantages include a huge weight reduction, plus when ERA is upgraded it is far easier to replace old stuff with new stuff.

    I would think it is pretty stupid to despise a tank you have in service because it was different from the home made model... if they were the same then why bother with both types?

    They are probably getting paid... there are a lot of right wing orgs that will pay good money to talk up American stuff and talk down any foreign stuff. I see the US is unhappy with the election results in Russia and is going to increase funding to NGOs in Russia... "to help".
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:39 pm

    BTW the trick to posting videos is to try to find the video on Youtube.

    In the case of the video mentioned above on a blog, if you right click the video you might find an option to "Watch on Youtube", which if you select it will open a new tab or window.

    If you then highlight and copy that complete link then come here and open a post reply window (by choosing reply) you can then click on the button above the text area that looks like a movie strip and paste the url link to the youtube page.

    I have found it works best if you don't move the HTTP code that it pastes into your reply and just click on send to send it.

    This is what I have just done, so here is the result:

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:49 am

    So, given that the army has stopped T-90 buys, apparently the interim between T-90A and Armata is a contract for 330/3years T-72BA2 (not an official designation, just to differentiate from the first BA series upgraded over the last decade) for Tagil.
    Not a bad upgrade, on the cheap:
    Sosna-U fire control
    1000 hp V92S2
    Upgraded chassis
    *New auto loader that accommodates 740mm long ammo
    Thermal Displays for both Commander and Gunner
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    Post  Austin on Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:09 am

    TR1 wrote:So, given that the army has stopped T-90 buys, apparently the interim between T-90A and Armata is a contract for 330/3years T-72BA2 (not an official designation, just to differentiate from the first BA series upgraded over the last decade) for Tagil.
    Not a bad upgrade, on the cheap:
    Sosna-U fire control
    1000 hp V92S2
    Upgraded chassis
    *New auto loader that accommodates 740mm long ammo
    Thermal Displays for both Commander and Gunner

    Yeah the T-72BA2 upgrade looks quite good and comprehensive , it cost around $1.2 million per tank to upgrade to BA2 standard and its described as being as good as T-90.

    Even India is upgrading 600 odd T-72 to similar to BA2 standard , with new FCS , Air Condition , 1000HP engine , Thermal System , ERA etc . So we will see two types of upgrade done on indian T-72 one is T-72 CIA upgrade which some 650 odd has been done and BA2 type comprehensive upgrade which will be deep upgrade.

    So both Russian Army and Indian Army will be operating their upgraded T-72 for a long time to come Smile

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    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:04 am

    https://i.servimg.com/u/f49/17/09/74/65/oplots13.jpg


    Made something, in response to the pathetic Ukranian butthurt in regards to the T-90MS. See, I can make stupid pictures too!

    Nevermind the fact that T-90MS has a better ERA layout above the main armor array, and actually has some sort of shield around the gun...bah, little details don't stop the master troll, Andrei.
    What is also funny, is there is zero evidence a full production Oplot has been used in fire trials. Apparently they used a modified T-80 array to test the armor, and there is no photographic evidence (or otherwise) of the actual Oplot turret being subjected to testing. One might say, that is rather pathetic. Compare that to the multitude of T-90 serials that have been thoroughly shot up. I know what I trust more.

    Regarding the so-called hump, this was discussed at length on the Otvaga forum (where incidentally Tarsenko does not show his face, since he would be humiliated) and people who actually STOOD on the damn vehicle, including not just UMZ faithfulls like Gur Khan/Khlopotov, but trusted sources like Fofanov, said they did not notice a large weak spot or hump on the turret. That is, no more so than previous Soviet vehicles had, for example :

    http://www.otvaga2004.narod.ru/xlopotov_8/007/op02.jpg

    T-7B turret, you can see the raise behind the array

    http://img.fyjs.cn/Mon_0702/26_13307_c329cb96f5a820a.jpg
    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/uploads/000a/e3/16/129367-1-f.gif

    T-90A has it. Why does it exist at all? Size, sacrifice to having an otherwise such compact and small target of a turret. On the T-90MS however, the armor in the roof looks thicker and has a good ERA layout.

    So yeah, that is that. This is not meant to be an anti-Ukranian post, but the response by those Pro-Oplot guys has been NOTHING but pathetic since the tank was unvieled. First we get 1.) ITS A MOCKUP, NOT A REAL TANK then 2) THE ERA ISNT REAL then 3.) WEAK SPOTS all the meanwhile clinging on to the deluded fantasy that the Oplot is the best MBT in the world.

    Rant, over.

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    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:19 am

    TR1 wrote:https://i.servimg.com/u/f49/17/09/74/65/oplots13.jpg


    Made something, in response to the pathetic Ukranian butthurt in regards to the T-90MS. See, I can make stupid pictures too!

    Nevermind the fact that T-90MS has a better ERA layout above the main armor array, and actually has some sort of shield around the gun...bah, little details don't stop the master troll, Andrei.
    What is also funny, is there is zero evidence a full production Oplot has been used in fire trials. Apparently they used a modified T-80 array to test the armor, and there is no photographic evidence (or otherwise) of the actual Oplot turret being subjected to testing. One might say, that is rather pathetic. Compare that to the multitude of T-90 serials that have been thoroughly shot up. I know what I trust more.

    Regarding the so-called hump, this was discussed at length on the Otvaga forum (where incidentally Tarsenko does not show his face, since he would be humiliated) and people who actually STOOD on the damn vehicle, including not just UMZ faithfulls like Gur Khan/Khlopotov, but trusted sources like Fofanov, said they did not notice a large weak spot or hump on the turret. That is, no more so than previous Soviet vehicles had, for example :

    http://www.otvaga2004.narod.ru/xlopotov_8/007/op02.jpg

    T-7B turret, you can see the raise behind the array

    http://img.fyjs.cn/Mon_0702/26_13307_c329cb96f5a820a.jpg
    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/uploads/000a/e3/16/129367-1-f.gif

    T-90A has it. Why does it exist at all? Size, sacrifice to having an otherwise such compact and small target of a turret. On the T-90MS however, the armor in the roof looks thicker and has a good ERA layout.

    So yeah, that is that. This is not meant to be an anti-Ukranian post, but the response by those Pro-Oplot guys has been NOTHING but pathetic since the tank was unvieled. First we get 1.) ITS A MOCKUP, NOT A REAL TANK then 2) THE ERA ISNT REAL then 3.) WEAK SPOTS all the meanwhile clinging on to the deluded fantasy that the Oplot is the best MBT in the world.

    Rant, over.



    Good, because I don't want to ban Mindstorm or you so please keep it civil, both of you...
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    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:30 am

    TR1 , Actually i saw the T-90A and T-90MS , the MS certainly have a small distinct hump and it extends much further , compared to T-90A.

    But the MS has layers of ERA protecting that area , so in a way those area is well protected and the ERA is angled.

    I really dont know if those hump really makes any drastic change as far is protection or vulnerability of the tank goes , I personally think it does not make any much difference.

    But people who want to exaggerate it they would do it , so in the end it does not matter.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:03 pm

    I rather doubt such a minor feature would effect protection... modern penetrators take a fairly straight path and are not deflected by angled surfaces, so a hump in the turret roof would make little difference in protection as a projectile hitting it would simply hit the ERA at the front... pass through a little piece of the roof horizontally and then hit the back of the rear facing ERA panel... the crew would be relatively safe.

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