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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:41 pm

    One suspects that they really really don't want this ship to fall into foreign hands by way of salvage!

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — A Russian Black Sea Fleet research vessel, the Liman, received a hull breach in the sea 40 kilometers from the Bosphorus, the crew were not injured, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement Thursday.

    "On April 27 at 11.53 Moscow time, in the southwestern part of the Black Sea, 40 kilometers northwest of the Bosphorus Strait, the research vessel of the Black Sea Fleet, the Liman, as a result of a collision with the Ashot-7 vessel… received a starboard hole below the waterline. No one was injured among the crew. The crew… are fighting for the survivability of the vessel," the statement said.

    Black Sea Fleet vessels and an An-26 plane with rescuers were sent to assist the sailors.


    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 1053061021
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    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:55 pm

    JohninMK wrote:with the Ashot-7 vessel… ]

    ???
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    Post  Airman Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:31 pm

    The Turkish coast guard said it rescued 78 people from the Russian ship
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    Post  eehnie Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:32 pm

    JohninMK wrote:One suspects that they really really don't want this ship to fall into foreign hands by way of salvage!

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — A Russian Black Sea Fleet research vessel, the Liman, received a hull breach in the sea 40 kilometers from the Bosphorus, the crew were not injured, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement Thursday.

    "On April 27 at 11.53 Moscow time, in the southwestern part of the Black Sea, 40 kilometers northwest of the Bosphorus Strait, the research vessel of the Black Sea Fleet, the Liman, as a result of a collision with the Ashot-7 vessel… received a starboard hole below the waterline. No one was injured among the crew. The crew… are fighting for the survivability of the vessel," the statement said.

    Black Sea Fleet vessels and an An-26 plane with rescuers were sent to assist the sailors.


    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 1053061021

    It is a Project 861 hydrographic auxiliary ship commissioned in 1970
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:43 pm


    Now that everyone is safe I can say that this is excellent opportunity to buy more of those fancy new ones.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:12 pm

    Bad weather, fog in particular, could have cause the collision of a Russian naval research vessel with another ship in the Black Sea, the Russian consulate general in Istanbul said Thursday.

    ANKARA (Sputnik) — Russian Black Sea Fleet research vessel Liman collided earlier on Thursday with a Togo-flagged ship 40 kilometers (25 miles) from the Bosphorus Strait. The Russian vessel sank after receiving a hull rapture, but all 78 crew members were rescued.

    "According to preliminary data, bad weather conditions, fog, could have caused the incident," press attache Sergei Losev said.
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:20 pm

    Looks like the Russian Navy have a guard dog in position over the wreck, another 'research' ship.

    Yörük Işık‏Verified account @YorukIsik 48m48 minutes ago

    Salvage operation underway?: Russia flag Heather Sea remains in the Liman accident area. Last 18hrs track attached:



    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Showphoto

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Mappic
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:23 pm

    Pretty good summary. I bet she was going as fast as she could further into international waters as she was taking on water whilst the damage control party were carefully controlling what they damaged Smile

    On 27th April 2017 the Russian intelligence gathering ship Liman sunk off the coast of Istanbul.

    The Project 861 / Moma class ship of Russian Black Sea Fleet was approximately 17 nautical miles northwest of the northern entrance of Istanbul Strait when Togo flagged livestock carrier Youzarsif H hit Liman. The accident happened at 08.41 UTC (11:41 local time). There was fog and the visibility was limited. This part of the Black Sea is usually used as a staging area for the ships as the wait for their turn to sail the Bosphorus. Thus there are usually many ships either adrift or sailing with very slow speed.

    It was apparently Youzarsif H that hit Liman since Russian ships hull was breached below the waterline. Both ship are similar in displacement around 1.500 tons and size. The damage to the Russian ship has overwhelmed the damage control party and the ship sunk at 11:48 UTC (14:48 local time).

    Turkish Directorate General of Coastal Safety dispatched life boats Kıyı Emniyeti 3, Kıyı Emniyeti 6, Kıyı Emniyeyi 8 and tug Kurtarma 3 to the accident site. Of the 78 sailors on board of Liman, 26 were rescued by life boat Kıyı Emniyeti 3, 37 by Kıyı Eminyeti 8 and 15 by Youzarsif H. There are no casualties.

    Liman was one of the 3 Project 861M / Moma class intelligence gathering ships. All are based in the Black Sea. The ship was deployed to the Mediterranean in Winter 2016 and was last seen passing northbound through Istanbul on 26 January 2017. Liman was not expected to pass southbound through Istanbul Strait. This means she was sailing just outside of the Turkish territorial waters for collecting intelligence.

    Intelligence gathering ships are equipped with highly sensitive sensors, special eavesdropping hardware and software to record and decipher the collected data. Some of the sailors on board must be “scientist” specialized gathering and interpreting data. A good question is whether the Russians had time to destroy the sensitive equipment before abandoning the ship. Another question is whether there will be any efforts to raise the ship or salvage any sensitive equipment that was not destroyer by the crew.

    Though we don’t have details, how the accident ever happened and who was right according to COLREG, it is kind a ironic, that a ship with a mission to gather all the intelligence around it, fails to see an ungainly merchant ship sailing directly on it.


    https://turkishnavy.net/
    George1
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    Post  George1 Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:34 pm

    Special equipment, documentation delivered from sunken ship Liman to Russian naval base

    MOSCOW, April 28. /TASS/. All the crew members, detachable special equipment and arms of the research vessel Liman that sank in the Black Sea after collision with a cargo ship have been delivered to the Russian Black Sea Fleet’s naval base in Crimea, Russia’s Defense Ministry reported on Friday.

    "All detachable special equipment, documentation, arms and ammunition were evacuated by the ship’s crew to rescue craft and then safely delivered to the Black Sea Fleet’s base in Crimea," the Defense Ministry said in a statement obtained by TASS.

    "All the crewmembers … were delivered by a Russian Defense Ministry plane to the Black Sea fleet base," the ministry said.

    The Russian crew’s courage and skills to fight for the ship’s survivability allowed "the vessel that received hull breaches below the waterline in two compartments of the engine room to stay afloat for almost 3 hours," the statement said.

    The Russian Black Sea Fleet's research ship Liman sank after it collided with a freighter in the waters near the Bosphorus, yet the vessel’s entire crew was rescued. According to Russia’s Consulate General in Istanbul, the incident may have been caused by poor visibility due to thick fog.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/943828
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:49 pm


    Marshal Shaposhnikov on repairs, lots of stuff removed :
    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 29-4919185-imag0954


    Marshal Krylov on repairs:
    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 9GYL9pb6z9I

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 47TB79rEbEg
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:08 pm

    Shaposhnikov is just getting some new radars "Salut" MR-710 and 5P-30N2
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri May 05, 2017 3:11 pm


    Project 20360М weapons transport Genadii Dmitriev laid down at Vympel shipyard:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/93241/

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 D3d3LnZ5bXBlbC1yeWJpbnNrLnJ1L3dwLWNvbnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fkcy8yMDM2ME0tTVRWXzEuanBnP19faWQ9OTMyNDE=
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    Post  George1 Fri May 05, 2017 6:12 pm

    Advanced frigate Admiral Essen joins Russia’s Mediterranean naval task force

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/944761
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    Post  eehnie Mon May 08, 2017 8:52 pm

    New links about the four cargo ships purchased for the operation in Syria, with recent pictures of the ships:

    Dvinitsa-50 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F54458%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/202138/%3Fvid%3D54458&usg=ALkJrhjmrcxM5SNZvZ6ypschrfn-WsfSiw

    Vologda-50 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F54485%2F

    Picture of December 1, 2016 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/195693/%3Fvid%3D54485&usg=ALkJrhj_YggWNz6DNB5JK8tiUUjeTenoXA

    Kyzyl-60 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F55363%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/201229/%3Fvid%3D55363&usg=ALkJrhh9t9ZuUQ34XQ6i3t9Vq8a8ye8Lmw

    Kazan-60 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F16128%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/201731/%3Fvid%3D16128&usg=ALkJrhgyNZJRnB6TkDN1EkG_stwRx7hyeQ

    These ships, all foreigners, seem to have a short future. As commented before, the Russian Navy has alternative for them in the own fleet.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue May 09, 2017 12:19 am

    eehnie wrote:New links about the four cargo ships purchased for the operation in Syria, with recent pictures of the ships:

    Dvinitsa-50 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F54458%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/202138/%3Fvid%3D54458&usg=ALkJrhjmrcxM5SNZvZ6ypschrfn-WsfSiw

    Vologda-50 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F54485%2F

    Picture of December 1, 2016 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/195693/%3Fvid%3D54485&usg=ALkJrhj_YggWNz6DNB5JK8tiUUjeTenoXA

    Kyzyl-60 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F55363%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/201229/%3Fvid%3D55363&usg=ALkJrhh9t9ZuUQ34XQ6i3t9Vq8a8ye8Lmw

    Kazan-60 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F16128%2F

    Picture of March 31, 2017 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=es&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://fleetphoto.ru/photo/201731/%3Fvid%3D16128&usg=ALkJrhgyNZJRnB6TkDN1EkG_stwRx7hyeQ

    These ships, all foreigners, seem to have a short future. As commented before, the Russian Navy has alternative for them in the own fleet.
    Thanks.

    Four ships at the end of their lives, probably being the most cost effective that they have ever been. If the RN had an alternative they would have used them, these were extras, especially the bulk grain carrier.

    Very little seen is the Ro-Ro ferry bought at the same time.
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    Post  eehnie Tue May 09, 2017 2:15 am

    From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.

    These are the data about the four ships purchased for the opeartion in Syria:

    9132 tons Dvinitsa-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54458/
    7250 tons Vologda-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54485/
    4509 tons Kyzyl-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/55363/
    2099 tons Kazan-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/16128/

    These are the potential alternatives present in the Russian Navy today and in the short term:

    14165 tons Yauza Project 550 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/20520/ (Used in Syria now for the same role, with a number of amphibious landing ships)

    7230 tons Yamal Project 596P http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17555/
    6300 tons Akademik Kovalev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42639/
    4473 tons Daugaba Project 1791 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/33930/
    3947 tons Pechora Project 740 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/14386/
    1985 tons VTR-79 Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/3205/
    1985 tons Viktor Cherokov Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/60772/
    1915 tons Yrghiz Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42760/
    1915 tons Bira Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/716/
    1243 tons VTR-139 Project 1807 modified to armament transport ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/35262/
    1192 tons VTR-140 Project 773 modified to dry-cargo ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/26719/

    6300 tons Akademik Makeev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59962/ (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2019)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2020)

    6000 tons Ivan Gren Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/25277/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2017)
    6000 tons Pyotr Morgunov Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59957/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    4012 tons Konstantin Olshanskiy Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/4752/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Captured to Ukaine, potential introduction)
    4012 tons Oslyabya Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17125/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Reparation contracted)

    Ships marked with the same color, different of black, are of almost the same size.

    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue May 09, 2017 12:32 pm

    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.


    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
    I understand what you are saying but it is clear to me that the MoD did the correct thing. There is little known surplus of ships of this type in the RuN and the Syrian Express was a particular and well defined task. I doubt anyone with any knowledge of shipping would have questioned the move, let alone making it a reason to doubt the RuN's capacity. In a way, it shows quite the reverse, flexible and pragmatic thinking.

    Why pull in ships from the other Fleets and wear them out ahead of time, when for very few $ they could buy in a few near end of life correct specification ships, already in the area, and run them into the ground? They haven't even rushed the Ivan Gren into service.
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    Post  eehnie Wed May 10, 2017 12:03 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.


    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
    I understand what you are saying but it is clear to me that the MoD did the correct thing. There is little known surplus of ships of this type in the RuN and the Syrian Express was a particular and well defined task. I doubt anyone with any knowledge of shipping would have questioned the move, let alone making it a reason to doubt the RuN's capacity. In a way, it shows quite the reverse, flexible and pragmatic thinking.

    Why pull in ships from the other Fleets and wear them out ahead of time, when for very few $ they could buy in a few near end of life correct specification ships, already in the area, and run them into the ground? They haven't even rushed the Ivan Gren into service.

    The ships of the Russian Navy for sea transport of dry cargo, not used in the Syrian operation, are listed in the second box of my previous comment. This is something public, and as consequence it is easy to see that Russia had always enough sea transport capacity for this operation in Syria. In reality, who has a real knowledge of the data comes to this conclusion, which is obvious. Even in this case, this means not approval or disapproval of the purchase of four ships, because having enough capacity for it, the purchase was also in the mix of the valid options.

    The problem here is that there is people that take profit of the purchase to put in doubt the capability of the Russian Navy to afford completely the operation in Syria. This people plays with the lack of knowledge, saying that there are not ships, but even with the data that I posted in front they continue with the doubt. Against it, my opinion is that it would have been better to avoid the purchase. I see the purchase as a mistake, likely the worst in the Russian operation, but being the worst is small, very small.

    Here, after the capacity of the Russian Navy was questioned, we have the data in front. Time to see who can aknowledge now that Russia has the capacity and who keeps saying that Russia purchased the ships by lack of capacity.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed May 10, 2017 12:59 am

    eehnie wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.


    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
    I understand what you are saying but it is clear to me that the MoD did the correct thing. There is little known surplus of ships of this type in the RuN and the Syrian Express was a particular and well defined task. I doubt anyone with any knowledge of shipping would have questioned the move, let alone making it a reason to doubt the RuN's capacity. In a way, it shows quite the reverse, flexible and pragmatic thinking.

    Why pull in ships from the other Fleets and wear them out ahead of time, when for very few $ they could buy in a few near end of life correct specification ships, already in the area, and run them into the ground? They haven't even rushed the Ivan Gren into service.

    The ships of the Russian Navy for sea transport of dry cargo, not used in the Syrian operation, are listed in the second box of my previous comment. This is something public, and as consequence it is easy to see that Russia had always enough sea transport capacity for this operation in Syria. In reality, who has a real knowledge of the data comes to this conclusion, which is obvious. Even in this case, this means not approval or disapproval of the purchase of four ships, because having enough capacity for it, the purchase was also in the mix of the valid options.

    The problem here is that there is people that take profit of the purchase to put in doubt the capability of the Russian Navy to afford completely the operation in Syria. This people plays with the lack of knowledge, saying that there are not ships, but even with the data that I posted in front they continue with the doubt. Against it, my opinion is that it would have been better to avoid the purchase. I see the purchase as a mistake, likely the worst in the Russian operation, but being the worst is small, very small.

    Here, after the capacity of the Russian Navy was questioned, we have the data in front. Time to see who can aknowledge now that Russia has the capacity and who keeps saying that Russia purchased the ships by lack of capacity.

    Your list depends on two factors.

    1. The sea condition of most of those vessels, not all of them is up to the standard for this.

    2. What type of cargo they can load and safely transport.

    So unless you have access the Russian navy in ways no one else here does.

    Have you ever worked on large scale cargo transportation?. You can't just stick every dam thing in a ship hull there is rules and procedures one must follow.

    so people having their doubts here is reasonable, what is unreasonable is you saying they are wrong when the only thing you have to base this off is some internet articles.

    Personally, go and inspect every one of these ships, get some experience in the type of job that is being done here and then your words can be accepted has fact.
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    Post  eehnie Wed May 10, 2017 3:05 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.


    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
    I understand what you are saying but it is clear to me that the MoD did the correct thing. There is little known surplus of ships of this type in the RuN and the Syrian Express was a particular and well defined task. I doubt anyone with any knowledge of shipping would have questioned the move, let alone making it a reason to doubt the RuN's capacity. In a way, it shows quite the reverse, flexible and pragmatic thinking.

    Why pull in ships from the other Fleets and wear them out ahead of time, when for very few $ they could buy in a few near end of life correct specification ships, already in the area, and run them into the ground? They haven't even rushed the Ivan Gren into service.

    The ships of the Russian Navy for sea transport of dry cargo, not used in the Syrian operation, are listed in the second box of my previous comment. This is something public, and as consequence it is easy to see that Russia had always enough sea transport capacity for this operation in Syria. In reality, who has a real knowledge of the data comes to this conclusion, which is obvious. Even in this case, this means not approval or disapproval of the purchase of four ships, because having enough capacity for it, the purchase was also in the mix of the valid options.

    The problem here is that there is people that take profit of the purchase to put in doubt the capability of the Russian Navy to afford completely the operation in Syria. This people plays with the lack of knowledge, saying that there are not ships, but even with the data that I posted in front they continue with the doubt. Against it, my opinion is that it would have been better to avoid the purchase. I see the purchase as a mistake, likely the worst in the Russian operation, but being the worst is small, very small.

    Here, after the capacity of the Russian Navy was questioned, we have the data in front. Time to see who can aknowledge now that Russia has the capacity and who keeps saying that Russia purchased the ships by lack of capacity.

    Your list depends on two factors.

    1. The sea condition of most of those vessels, not all of them is up to the standard for this.

    2. What type of cargo they can load and safely transport.

    So unless you have access the Russian navy in ways no one else here does.

    Have you ever worked on large scale cargo transportation?. You can't just stick every dam thing in a ship hull there is rules and procedures one must follow.

    so people having their doubts here is reasonable, what is unreasonable is you saying they are wrong when the only thing you have to base this off is some internet articles.

    Personally, go and inspect every one of these ships, get some experience in the type of job that is being done here and then your words can be accepted has fact.

    Do you have something in support of your doubts? say it here... link it here... Do you have something else that we can add to the list?

    In the other side, we have:

    - All these ships are in active service in the Russian Navy.
    - Ships publicly known, with many public pictures of them, including pictures of them working recently (some of them in the links that I posted in the list).
    - Ships publicly known, with a good number of available data for them. Some of the ships even are new.
    - Ships under 1000 tons have not been included in the list.
    - The word capability has been used under its technical definition in my comments.

    This was not exactly the purpose, but has been one of the conclusions. Before to say that Russia had the capability to afford completely the operation in Syria without need of purchases, I did an extensive research between the entire Russian combat fleet and the Russian auxiliary fleet (854 ships and submarines, without include those that go as equipment of bigger ships), I did the contrast about the state of these ships, and the result has been also included in the list (you can see the reference to the contract for the restoration of an amphibious landing ship of the Project 775).

    This is open to arguments, but until now I only see doubts based on nothing or based only in the purchase (which reinforces my opinion about the purchase as a small mistake, in my opinion the worst in relative terms in the entire Russian operation in Syria, that reached high standards).
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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK Wed May 10, 2017 10:39 pm

    The RuN sucked her dry in the Med, time for a top-up back home.

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Ivan-bubnov1

    Meanwhile the Syrian Express rolls on, Yamal returning empty.

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Tam-ekran-yakalama-7-5-2017-195914
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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Guest Thu May 11, 2017 7:01 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.


    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.
    I understand what you are saying but it is clear to me that the MoD did the correct thing. There is little known surplus of ships of this type in the RuN and the Syrian Express was a particular and well defined task. I doubt anyone with any knowledge of shipping would have questioned the move, let alone making it a reason to doubt the RuN's capacity. In a way, it shows quite the reverse, flexible and pragmatic thinking.

    Why pull in ships from the other Fleets and wear them out ahead of time, when for very few $ they could buy in a few near end of life correct specification ships, already in the area, and run them into the ground? They haven't even rushed the Ivan Gren into service.

    The ships of the Russian Navy for sea transport of dry cargo, not used in the Syrian operation, are listed in the second box of my previous comment. This is something public, and as consequence it is easy to see that Russia had always enough sea transport capacity for this operation in Syria. In reality, who has a real knowledge of the data comes to this conclusion, which is obvious. Even in this case, this means not approval or disapproval of the purchase of four ships, because having enough capacity for it, the purchase was also in the mix of the valid options.

    The problem here is that there is people that take profit of the purchase to put in doubt the capability of the Russian Navy to afford completely the operation in Syria. This people plays with the lack of knowledge, saying that there are not ships, but even with the data that I posted in front they continue with the doubt. Against it, my opinion is that it would have been better to avoid the purchase. I see the purchase as a mistake, likely the worst in the Russian operation, but being the worst is small, very small.

    Here, after the capacity of the Russian Navy was questioned, we have the data in front. Time to see who can aknowledge now that Russia has the capacity and who keeps saying that Russia purchased the ships by lack of capacity.

    Your list depends on two factors.

    1. The sea condition of most of those vessels, not all of them is up to the standard for this.

    2. What type of cargo they can load and safely transport.

    So unless you have access the Russian navy in ways no one else here does.

    Have you ever worked on large scale cargo transportation?. You can't just stick every dam thing in a ship hull there is rules and procedures one must follow.

    so people having their doubts here is reasonable, what is unreasonable is you saying they are wrong when the only thing you have to base this off is some internet articles.

    Personally, go and inspect every one of these ships, get some experience in the type of job that is being done here and then your words can be accepted has fact.

    Do you have something in support of your doubts? say it here... link it here... Do you have something else that we can add to the list?

    In the other side, we have:

    - All these ships are in active service in the Russian Navy.
    - Ships publicly known, with many public pictures of them, including pictures of them working recently (some of them in the links that I posted in the list).
    - Ships publicly known, with a good number of available data for them. Some of the ships even are new.
    - Ships under 1000 tons have not been included in the list.
    - The word capability has been used under its technical definition in my comments.

    This was not exactly the purpose, but has been one of the conclusions. Before to say that Russia had the capability to afford completely the operation in Syria without need of purchases, I did an extensive research between the entire Russian combat fleet and the Russian auxiliary fleet (854 ships and submarines, without include those that go as equipment of bigger ships), I did the contrast about the state of these ships, and the result has been also included in the list (you can see the reference to the contract for the restoration of an amphibious landing ship of the Project 775).

    This is open to arguments, but until now I only see doubts based on nothing or based only in the purchase (which reinforces my opinion about the purchase as a small mistake, in my opinion the worst in relative terms in the entire Russian operation in Syria, that reached high standards).

    To start with, active status does not mean its available for use. You have active ships that havent sailed in years due to various reasons, that is same everywhere. You cant leave two fleets without transport capabilities to support one operation.

    Also i am not sure, again, if you understand how badly transport of this frequency affects lifespan of the ships. Ships that RuNav would normally use 5-6-7 more years would be ruined in a year and half, and then what? Ship is not Folkswagen Golf 2, you cant drive it around till your registration expires no matter in how bad shape it is.

    Okay, nice 854 ships, and how many of them have actually sailed in past 2 years? 250? 300? How many of them are even an actual ships and not floating cranes, harbour tugs, landing boats etc, etc?

    Stop flooding forum with crap seriously. I already gave you a link if you think you have something to object onto Russian naval doctrine, because apparently they are all imbeciles and dont know how many ships and of what type they have on their disposal.
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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  marat Thu May 11, 2017 8:26 pm

    eehnie wrote:From previous posts it is possible to recover the data about the alternatives to the four ships purchased for the operation in Syria present today in the Russian Navy.

    These are the data about the four ships purchased for the opeartion in Syria:

    9132 tons Dvinitsa-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54458/2099 tons Kazan-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/16128/

    These are the potential alternatives present in the Russian Navy today and in the short term:

    14165 tons Yauza Project 550 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/20520/ (Used in Syria now for the same role, with a number of amphibious landing ships)

    7230 tons Yamal Project 596P http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17555/
    6300 tons Akademik Kovalev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42639/
    4473 tons Daugaba Project 1791 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/33930/
    3947 tons Pechora Project 740 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/14386/
    1985 tons VTR-79 Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/3205/
    1985 tons Viktor Cherokov Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/60772/
    1915 tons Yrghiz Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42760/
    1915 tons Bira Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/716/
    1243 tons VTR-139 Project 1807 modified to armament transport ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/35262/
    1192 tons VTR-140 Project 773 modified to dry-cargo ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/26719/

    6300 tons Akademik Makeev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59962/ (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2019)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2020)

    6000 tons Ivan Gren Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/25277/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2017)
    6000 tons Pyotr Morgunov Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59957/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    7250 tons Vologda-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54485/
    4509 tons Kyzyl-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/55363/

    4012 tons Konstantin Olshanskiy Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/4752/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Captured to Ukaine, potential introduction)
    4012 tons Oslyabya Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17125/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Reparation contracted)

    Ships marked with the same color, different of black, are of almost the same size.

    Russia addopted this solution of the purchase of ships (in my view wrongly because it opens the door to doubts about the capacity of the fleet), but never had, and will not have in the future, a problem of sea transport capacity for an operation like this of Syria.


    Some of the ships that you have inserted on that list are not finished jet, or do not even belong tu RuNavy, some are even 70 years old (project 572) !!!

    You seriously want to use this ship ???Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Hoper10
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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie Thu May 11, 2017 9:19 pm

    Militarov wrote:To start with, active status does not mean its available for use. You have active ships that havent sailed in years due to various reasons, that is same everywhere. You cant leave two fleets without transport capabilities to support one operation.

    Also i am not sure, again, if you understand how badly transport of this frequency affects lifespan of the ships. Ships that RuNav would normally use 5-6-7 more years would be ruined in a year and half, and then what? Ship is not Folkswagen Golf 2, you cant drive it around till your registration expires no matter in how bad shape it is.

    Okay, nice 854 ships, and how many of them have actually sailed in past 2 years? 250? 300? How many of them are even an actual ships and not floating cranes, harbour tugs, landing boats etc, etc?

    Stop flooding forum with crap seriously. I already gave you a link if you think you have something to object onto Russian naval doctrine, because apparently they are all imbeciles and dont know how many ships and of what type they have on their disposal.

    Like the rest you are providing 0 evidence, 0 data in support of your comment, but you are going worse still. 250? 300? This is just trolling. Between the 854 ships, Russia has 208 built in the 2000s. Enough to see how out of touch your comment is. You seems to think that we are all apparently imbeciles and do not know enough to put your trolling in the right place.

    Obviously every machine has a wear with intense use. But old ships are to be used when are needed. It is not a problem to use them until to be exhausted. It is the right thing to do. Or do you prefer now a purchase and to send these old ships to scappe in some years without to be used until to be exhausted? Russia has some old ship that are to be used in the short term, but also has an important sea transport capability in production that will be ready in the short term, like we can see in the data posted before, this time with increased size for you:

    eehnie wrote:These are the data about the four ships purchased for the opeartion in Syria:

    9132 tons Dvinitsa-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54458/
    7250 tons Vologda-50 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/54485/
    4509 tons Kyzyl-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/55363/
    2099 tons Kazan-60 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/16128/

    These are the potential alternatives present in the Russian Navy today and in the short term:

    14165 tons Yauza Project 550 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/20520/ (Used in Syria now for the same role, with a number of amphibious landing ships)

    7230 tons Yamal Project 596P http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17555/
    6300 tons Akademik Kovalev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42639/
    4473 tons Daugaba Project 1791 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/33930/
    3947 tons Pechora Project 740 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/14386/
    1985 tons VTR-79 Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/3205/
    1985 tons Viktor Cherokov Project 20360 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/60772/
    1915 tons Yrghiz Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/42760/
    1915 tons Bira Project 572 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/716/
    1243 tons VTR-139 Project 1807 modified to armament transport ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/35262/
    1192 tons VTR-140 Project 773 modified to dry-cargo ship http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/26719/

    6300 tons Akademik Makeev Project 20180/20181 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59962/ (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2019)
    2500 tons ?????? Project 20360 http://russianships.info/eng/support/project_20360.htm (Under construction expected by 2020)

    6000 tons Ivan Gren Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/25277/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2017)
    6000 tons Pyotr Morgunov Project 11711 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/59957/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Under construction, expected by 2018)
    4012 tons Konstantin Olshanskiy Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/4752/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Captured to Ukaine, potential introduction)
    4012 tons Oslyabya Project 775 http://fleetphoto.ru/ship/17125/ Landing ship, combat ship, not auxiliary (Reparation contracted)


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue May 16, 2017 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total
    eehnie
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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Empty Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie Thu May 11, 2017 9:57 pm

    marat wrote:Some of the ships that you have inserted on that list are not finished jet, or do not even belong tu RuNavy, some are even 70 years old (project 572) !!!

    You seriously want to use this ship ???Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 Hoper10

    1.- If you are not able to keep a quote like it is, without modifications, you should not quote.

    2.- If you are not able to talk about the same ships of the Project 572 that I posted, with links to images of them, you should avoid it. Because it is obvious to everyone that the image you posted is not of the ships that I posted:

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 164020 (the black ship, August 6, 2014)
    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 112119 (the black ship, November 29, 2014)

    Only need to read the name in the hull.

    In fact the ship you posted (picture of 2003) was writen off in 2008, and flooded as target in 2009. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffleetphoto.ru%2Fship%2F68819%2F

    3.- But even without these two ships, the capability of the Russian own fleet remains higher than the capability of the ships purchased. You can see it in the right list, included in my previous message. No problem.

    4.- If you have a problem with ships of almost 60 years old in active service, you should see this one with more than 100.

    Russian Navy: Status & News #3 - Page 13 181761


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun May 14, 2017 7:14 pm; edited 3 times in total

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