Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11151
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:38 am

    GarryB wrote:PD... the expert fortune teller.

    Sorry mate I can't find any of your posts from before 2014 saying Russia should spend billions of dollars developing their own replacements for stuff they buy from other countries... it must have been deleted, but would ask where all the money to fund those replacements was supposed to come from...

    Join date : 2015-04-26

    Ain't no rocket science

    For pre-2015 you will need to check militaryphotos.net
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:33 pm

    This video confirms that the Project 22160 is intended for anti piracy and peace keeping operations...

    George1 and dino00 like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:32 pm

    It also mentions that for policing duties and longer endurance it is intended to be rather more comfortable and perhaps less well armed than other projects.

    That would probably make it better suited to operating in the Black Sea Fleet or even Tartus to make transit times to the coast of Africa and trips through the med shorter and faster.

    The new support ships they are building could also be sent with replacement crews and supplies to allow more time on station getting the job done and less time wasted in transit.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11151
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:17 am


    Pavel Derzhavin with a rear container hatch open, we didn't see this before:
    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 E3_YiIjXEAApUI0?format=jpg&name=large

    franco, medo, George1, flamming_python, ZoA, mnztr and LMFS like this post

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 1187
    Points : 1221
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  mnztr Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:06 am

    Very smart looking ships. The current gen of Russian ships have really nice lines and proportions
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 2543
    Points : 2527
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:22 pm

    mnztr wrote:Very smart looking ships. The current gen of Russian ships have really nice lines and proportions

    Yeah the 22160 is a very nice looking boat.
    avatar
    ChineseTiger

    Posts : 27
    Points : 27
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ChineseTiger Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:48 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Very smart looking ships. The current gen of Russian ships have really nice lines and proportions

    Yeah the 22160 is a very nice looking boat.

    Seriously? Shocked
    avatar
    ALAMO

    Posts : 331
    Points : 333
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:20 pm

    Well, it is a boat. It is a synonym.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11151
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:17 am


    Scale model of Bykov-class from Naval Expo 21 in St. Pete

    They got some extra stuff lined up in this version but I can't figure out what just from numbers on that plaque, can someone tell what is what and where it goes?

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808809-img-20210622-152036-424-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808809-img-20210622-151958-449-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808817-img-20210622-152108-737-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808817-img-20210622-152100-429-2

    ahmedfire, slasher and LMFS like this post

    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 501
    Points : 552
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Here You Go

    Post  calripson Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:29 am

    Displacement around 2,000 tons
    Speed 27 knots
    Range 4,500

    Kaliber Missiles 8
    Surface to Air Either 32 Short Range or 96 Short range (9M100E)/24 Long range (9M96E) Redut Missile System
    57MM Naval Gun
    2 "Machine Guns"
    Hydro-acoustic Complex GAS GPBA

    LMFS and The_Observer like this post

    avatar
    Lurk83

    Posts : 79
    Points : 83
    Join date : 2021-02-23

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Lurk83 Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:10 am

    calripson wrote:Displacement around 2,000 tons
    Speed 27 knots
    Range 4,500

    Kaliber Missiles 8
    Surface to Air Either 32 Short Range or 96 Short range (9M100E)/24 Long range (9M96E) Redut Missile System
    57MM Naval Gun
    2 "Machine Guns"
    Hydro-acoustic Complex GAS GPBA

    Given their endurance etc... Wouldn't this make the bykov class more capable than 20830?
    avatar
    ALAMO

    Posts : 331
    Points : 333
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:24 am

    That is the point of its creation.
    It is an ocean-going patrol ship, made especially for that purpose.
    Supposed to operate at a factor of the cost of bigger ships.
    lancelot
    lancelot

    Posts : 460
    Points : 462
    Join date : 2020-10-18

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  lancelot Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:32 am

    Except existing ships in this class have no VLS at all. They are glorified patrol boats.
    At least the first ones were built quickly. But do not expect these ships to compete with a corvette like the 20380.
    Mir
    Mir

    Posts : 321
    Points : 323
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Mir Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:04 am

    lancelot wrote:Except existing ships in this class have no VLS at all. They are glorified patrol boats.
    At least the first ones were built quickly. But do not expect these ships to compete with a corvette like the 20380.

    These are specifically designed as anti-piracy ships and act as a mother ship for the new special assault craft. If need be they can probably carry those missile containers, but for it's purpose it's not needed at all.
    avatar
    ALAMO

    Posts : 331
    Points : 333
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:07 am

    Yeah, the model presented is an enlarged version. Original 22160 are smaller, with a displacement of about 1500t.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29860
    Points : 30388
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:37 am

    First of all it has a Ka-52 on the helicopter pad which is interesting ... and the hull side mounted launch tubes for presumably small torpedoes or Paket anti torpedos is interesting too.

    The UKSK launcher seems to be split in two halves at the rear on either side of that corridor from the helicopter pad to the helicopter hangar, so four missiles on each side for Onyx or Zircon or Kalibr or Club.

    The mini Redut system is very interesting... 24 launch tubes for either the shorter range 9M96 which domestically has a range of about 50-60km and for export seems to be about a 30km range system, or the 9M100 self defence anti missile CIWS type missile which can load four missiles into each of the 24 tubes so fill them all with the 9M100 and you can have 96 short range missiles or all 24 of the medium range missiles, or more likely a combination of both... perhaps 6 tubes with 24 short range CIWS missiles (6x4=24) and the remaining 18 tubes could carry 18 9M96 30km range missiles (for export) and 60km range missiles for domestic use.

    The shallow front deck likely restricts its use to the shorter two missile types for that system.

    The front 57mm automatic gun should be compatible with guided and airburst ammunition and quite effective against low flying subsonic anti ship missiles and the like.

    slasher likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO

    Posts : 331
    Points : 333
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ALAMO Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:43 am

    The installation scheme was already used for 20385.
    So functionally what we have here, is a smaller version of 20385, with increased ice operating capabilities. It should be a quite potent patrol vessel for Arctica. Plus it can still host containers, giving extra supply capacity. Nice.
    avatar
    Tingsay

    Posts : 179
    Points : 183
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Tingsay Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:32 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Scale model of Bykov-class from Naval Expo 21 in St. Pete

    They got some extra stuff lined up in this version but I can't figure out what just from numbers on that plaque, can someone tell what is what and where it goes?

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808809-img-20210622-152036-424-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808809-img-20210622-151958-449-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808817-img-20210622-152108-737-2

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22-9808817-img-20210622-152100-429-2


    In hindsight and now with this heavier version, Russia could've saved a lot of time, money and headache had they merged this class with karakurt and the later versions of Buyan into one major class with different variants for patrol ships,corvettes/missile boats.

    George1 likes this post

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 2615
    Points : 2615
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:34 pm

    Tingsay wrote:
    In hindsight and now with this heavier version, Russia could've saved a lot of time, money and headache had they merged this class with karakurt and the later versions of Buyan into one major class with different variants for patrol ships,corvettes/missile boats.

    Different designs for different roles. Bykov is a long endurance patrol boat. Neither Karakurt or Buyan-M could properly fulfill this misison.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 2225
    Points : 2215
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:34 pm

    Kaliber Missiles 8
    Surface to Air Either 32 Short Range or 96 Short range (9M100E)/24 Long range (9M96E) Redut Missile System
    I think it makes more sense if its:
    A 'general purpose' version with 8* Kalibr (specifically thats Club-NKE) and 8* Redut with 32* quad-packed 9M100.
    Would guess this would be the Kalibr on foredeck & a quad-cell each side aft.

    or
    An 'air defense' version with no Kalibr but increase to 24 cells, all Redut with single packed 9M96 or 96* quad-packed 9M100.
    Would be 16* cells on foredeck & a quad-cell each side aft.

    With the weight of Kalibr on the GP version you have to sacrifice radar power (/why bother for only 8* cells) so can't run 9M96.
    Or you can have an AD version with all Redut and radar that can run 9M96 (maybe a cut-down Zaslon? Without Kalibr you could remove the big passive arrays).
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 11077
    Points : 11151
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:48 pm

    Tingsay wrote:....In hindsight and now with this heavier version, Russia could've saved a lot of time, money and headache had they merged this class with karakurt and the later versions of Buyan into one major class with different variants for patrol ships,corvettes/missile boats. ....


    If you merge those classes you get Gorshkov frigate, they already have that

    And let's not forget that Bykov is still built according to civilian specifications which is why it is an offshore patrol vessel, it's original role hasn't changed



    Now as for this latest flavour we need to remember that the forward AA VLS is not new development, it was there in the original design but Navy asked that accommodation for platoon of marines be installed there instead

    What is new are torpedo launchers (Paket-M?) and those extra AA VLS in the middle

    I think that there was space reserved for them in the original project but they didn't want to overstuff the unproven platform (Russia didn't operate military vessels based on civilian standard before)



    Now after seeing them perform in practice they probably feel more confident about them so they decided they want to add some more features

    Idea behind this one seems to be to have a ship that they can send halfway across the planet with orders to be pain in someone's ass for couple of months (in addition to it's original role as patrol ship)

    For example standard version could have been ignored by submarines but this one is a different story because it can spot them and report their position back home so ignoring them is no longer an option which adds the workload

    dino00 likes this post

    avatar
    Tingsay

    Posts : 179
    Points : 183
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Tingsay Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:20 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:
    In hindsight and now with this heavier version, Russia could've saved a lot of time, money and headache had they merged this class with karakurt and the later versions of Buyan into one major class with different variants for patrol ships,corvettes/missile boats.

    Different designs for different roles.   Bykov is a long endurance patrol boat.  Neither Karakurt or Buyan-M could properly fulfill this misison.


    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:....In hindsight and now with this heavier version, Russia could've saved a lot of time, money and headache had they merged this class with karakurt and the later versions of Buyan into one major class with different variants for patrol ships,corvettes/missile boats. ....


    If you merge those classes you get Gorshkov frigate, they already have that

    And let's not forget that Bykov is still built according to civilian specifications which is why it is an offshore patrol vessel, it's original role hasn't changed



    Now as for this latest flavour we need to remember that the forward AA VLS is not new development, it was there in the original design but Navy asked that accommodation for platoon of marines be installed there instead

    What is new are torpedo launchers (Paket-M?) and those extra AA VLS in the middle

    I think that there was space reserved for them in the original project but they didn't want to overstuff the unproven platform (Russia didn't operate military vessels based on civilian standard before)



    Now after seeing them perform in practice they probably feel more confident about them so they decided they want to add some more features

    Idea behind this one seems to be to have a ship that they can send halfway across the planet with orders to be pain in someone's ass for couple of months (in addition to it's original role as patrol ship)

    For example standard version could have been ignored by submarines but this one is a different story because it can spot them and report their position back home so ignoring them is no longer an option which adds the workload


    No guys, you are misunderstanding.  I wasn't very clear on my previous post I guess, my bad.

    I didn't mean a unified ship that fulfills long distance patrol, missile boat and corvette at the same time (Stere and Gorsh class). I meant a common platform that can be adjusted for each the 3 roles separately depending on the demand and also unifying building process and maintenance. Would've been the perfect precursor to the Mercury class.

    But again, this is only in hindsight. I can understand how or why they went from buyan to gepard to buyan-M  to karakurt then to bykov.
    avatar
    ALAMO

    Posts : 331
    Points : 333
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  ALAMO Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:17 am

    Tingsay wrote:
    I didn't mean a unified ship that fulfills long distance patrol, missile boat and corvette at the same time (Stere and Gorsh class). I meant a common platform that can be adjusted for each the 3 roles separately depending on the demand and also unifying building process and maintenance. Would've been the perfect precursor to the Mercury class.

    But again, this is only in hindsight. I can understand how or why they went from buyan to gepard to buyan-M  to karakurt then to bykov.

    I think that it is next to impossible to combine the characteristics of these projects.
    While Bykov can be used on the rivers, Buyan cant be used in the Arctic. Making one class that would combine this task means you get an unnecessary expensive ship, with the combination of partially unneeded features. Besides, what you see as a difference, is the hull shape. Those are simply steel sheets welded together. There is not much difference in how those are welded. It is not more than 20% of the entire construction cost, maybe even less. The real cost factor is electronics, weapons, and engines. As long as those are more or less unified, the shape is irrelevant.
    avatar
    Tingsay

    Posts : 179
    Points : 183
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Tingsay Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:34 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:
    I didn't mean a unified ship that fulfills long distance patrol, missile boat and corvette at the same time (Stere and Gorsh class). I meant a common platform that can be adjusted for each the 3 roles separately depending on the demand and also unifying building process and maintenance. Would've been the perfect precursor to the Mercury class.

    But again, this is only in hindsight. I can understand how or why they went from buyan to gepard to buyan-M  to karakurt then to bykov.

    I think that it is next to impossible to combine the characteristics of these projects.
    While Bykov can be used on the rivers, Buyan cant be used in the Arctic. Making one class that would combine this task means you get an unnecessary expensive ship, with the combination of partially unneeded features. Besides, what you see as a difference, is the hull shape. Those are simply steel sheets welded together. There is not much difference in how those are welded. It is not more than 20% of the entire construction cost, maybe even less.  The real cost factor is electronics, weapons, and engines. As long as those are more or less unified, the shape is irrelevant.

    Hmm well, I didn't mean exact replicas for all 3 roles. The up-gunned Bykov is definitely larger than the patrol boat version. Maybe a smaller Bykov without the hangar and the helipad replaced by an anti-air gun as with the karakurt.
    But the Mercury class is what really seems to want to bring this idea to the next level. Exact same platform that can switch priorities depending on the missions.

    But yeah, I've had doubts for unified platforms before too although I was a really huge fan of the idea. If it's true that the differences in hull design between various classes of ships that are roughly in the same ballpark in size and roles are largely superficial, and does not complicate construction and maintenance in any meaningful way, then this 100% puts an end to the viability of the Mercury class. That ship is a dud.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 2225
    Points : 2215
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:37 am

    hoom wrote:I think it makes more sense if its:
    A 'general purpose' version with 8* Kalibr and 8* Redut with 32* quad-packed 9M100.
    Would guess this would be the Kalibr on foredeck & a quad-cell each side aft.
    Here is the proof of my interpretation being (mostly) correct (via http://bastion-karpenko.ru/imds-2021/)
    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 22160_MVMS-2021_PROSP_03
    The bigger cells are the aft ones so must be 2* 4 Kalibr aft, 8* Redut on the foredeck.

    Sponsored content

    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship - Page 24 Empty Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:13 pm