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    Incidents in Russia (Natural Disasters, Accidents and Emergencies)

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:05 pm

    Dforce wrote:
    medo wrote:.................................

    They are not throwing a pie in Putin's face, but in al Sisi's face. Security in Egypt and in Egyptian airports is Egyptian problem, not Russian. All this cancellations of flights in Egypt and evacuation of tourists is a blow for Egyptian tourism, which is one of the most important source of incomes for Egypt, for the state and for all those employed in tourism.

    You see, the bombings in Syria was to protect Russia from IS attacks, or at least that is the way it was sold; I bet I can find severals on here that have voiced that line of reasonng.

    However, if those bombings rather LEADS to IS attacks it will be another ball-game.

    Russia's war with terrorists started way back when USA & co considered OBL to be the goodest good guy around so you argument about selling anything is mute.

    That airplane at the time was under Egyptian responsibility so the ball is in their court. If I were them and my entire economy and pretty much statehood depended on tourism I would do my best to sort this mess out and to make very public and painful example of perpetrators their associates and their extended families for good measure (this is mid-east after all, image and honor is a big deal)

    Russia can sit back and see where it goes from here. Work on ISIS and moderate terrorists goes on as planned.

    As for "rebels" in Syria, they are still f***ed, crash or no crash.
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    Post  Dforce on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:46 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Work on ISIS and moderate terrorists goes on as planned.

    Sure it does, any day now the rebels will collapse! russia russia russia
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    Post  flamming_python on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:00 am

    Dforce wrote:
    medo wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Obviously British intelligence has enough good reason to suspect a bomb; they wouldn't strand thousands of their citizens in a foreign country and risk a diplomatic scuffle with Egypt just for the sake of throwing a pie in Putin's face.

    I think they know no more and no less than the Russians and Egyptians know. But what they do about that information is a different matter for each party.
    I'm not used to it but Britain seems to be acting the most responsibly here, quite a shock really.

    They are not throwing a pie in Putin's face, but in al Sisi's face. Security in Egypt and in Egyptian airports is Egyptian problem, not Russian. All this cancellations of flights in Egypt and evacuation of tourists is a blow for Egyptian tourism, which is one of the most important source of incomes for Egypt, for the state and for all those employed in tourism.

    You see, the bombings in Syria was to protect Russia from IS attacks, or at least that is the way it was sold; I bet I can find severals on here that have voiced that line of reasonng.

    However, if those bombings rather LEADS to IS attacks it will be another ball-game.

    The logic was never to protect Russia from IS attacks.

    Rather it was - if we don't fight them in Syria we'll later end up having to fight them in Central Asia and the Caucasus.

    The reasoning is a little different, as you can see. One way or the other a fight was seen as inevitable (and consequently casualties too)

    I'm not decided as to whether I 'buy' it myself, but that's what was sold at any rate.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:03 am

    Dforce wrote:
    Sure it does, any day now the rebels will collapse! russia russia russia

    Always knew you were a little pathetic insecure excuse of a human being and this basically confirms it. As soon as Russia decides to up the game against ISIS and its proxies it wouldn't surprise me if you feel bad for them.
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    Post  Dforce on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:14 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    Dforce wrote:
    Sure it does, any day now the rebels will collapse! russia russia russia

    Always knew you were a little pathetic insecure excuse of a human being and this basically confirms it. As soon as Russia decides to up the game against ISIS and its proxies it wouldn't surprise me if you feel bad for them.

    Sorry, no, you are wrong, I do not feel that much for Russia.
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    Post  Kimppis on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:19 am

    Man, you gotta love the double standards

    Russia conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terorist attack against Russia -> "Hahaha, we told you that you are going to pay for your 'military adventures', Putin!"

    US conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terrorist attack against the US -> "You fucking towel heads!!! We are going to kill you all! 'Murica fuck yeah!!! Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!"

    And then we have these theories: "Putin said that there will be no losses/we are protecting the Russian people -> So right now the Kremlin is trying to hide what really happened." Yeah, let's get ahead of ourselves. The investigation is not even over yet and they are stilling planning how to respond.

    And these articles that are actually defending Charlie Hebdo: "Russians have no right to be outraged! This just shows how evil Russian and its regime is! This is all about free speech and freedum. Take that, Putin!"
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    Post  Dforce on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:36 am

    Kimppis wrote:Man, you gotta love the double standards

    Russia conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terorist attack against Russia -> "Hahaha, we told you that you are going to pay for your 'military adventures', Putin!"

    US conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terrorist attack against the US -> "You fucking towel heads!!! We are going to kill you all! 'Murica fuck yeah!!! Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!"

    And then we have these theories: "Putin said that there will be no losses/we are protecting the Russian people -> So right now the Kremlin is trying to hide what really happened." Yeah, let's get ahead of ourselves. The investigation is not even over yet and they are stilling planning how to respond.

    And these articles that are actually defending Charlie Hebdo: "Russians have no right to be outraged! This just shows how evil Russian and its regime is! This is all about free speech and freedum. Take that, Putin!"  

    Sorry, you are missing the point here. It does not matter what Finns think (not that I think you are represtative of the regular Fin) but what the regular Russian think; that is the goal of the USUK propaganda about the bomb.
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    Post  Kimppis on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:02 am

    Dforce wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Man, you gotta love the double standards

    Russia conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terorist attack against Russia -> "Hahaha, we told you that you are going to pay for your 'military adventures', Putin!"

    US conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terrorist attack against the US -> "You fucking towel heads!!! We are going to kill you all! 'Murica fuck yeah!!! Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!"

    And then we have these theories: "Putin said that there will be no losses/we are protecting the Russian people -> So right now the Kremlin is trying to hide what really happened." Yeah, let's get ahead of ourselves. The investigation is not even over yet and they are stilling planning how to respond.

    And these articles that are actually defending Charlie Hebdo: "Russians have no right to be outraged! This just shows how evil Russian and its regime is! This is all about free speech and freedum. Take that, Putin!"  

    Sorry, you are missing the point here. It does not matter what Finns think (not that I think you are represtative of the regular Fin) but what the regular Russian think; that is the goal of the USUK propaganda about the bomb.

    I'm not sure that I understood you, but I wasn't talking about the western "propaganda's" target audience (at least that wasn't my point/intention). It's blatantly double standardistic (that's probably not a word) all the same. Although I think that I agree with you for the most part. And Finns don't matter, that's for sure. Smile
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    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:38 am

    So aside from gloating over the deaths of some innocent civilians, Dforce and the rest of NATO have nothing.
    Do NATO-tards expect terrorism to stop Russia? It seems NATO-tards also think their own masturbation over Russian
    civilian deaths will achieve something.

    So Charlie Hebdo is going to succeed where the US and its ISIS dogs failed? LOL.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:24 am

    Werewolf wrote:Wrong, ISIS is no suspect, the problem you like bln people have is that you believe in every garbage boogieman the US invents. You see ISIS as some own group with own politics, it is not, it never existed before US had not invented this group. They go hand in hand. If ISIS did this that is direct proof US did it.

    Well said, Werewolf.

    An important point is that all of these terms, e.g., ISIS, Al-Qaeda , bla bla bla, do not correspond to entities existing as "identifiable" groups and organizations. They are newspeak terms that represent the same single "phenomenon" to the prole that are engineered to be suitably gullible to believe in the existence of these putative entities as separate organization. The "phenomenon" that this terminology represents can, of course, be mapped to the "terror warfare" that is currently used by ...
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:24 am

    Further evidence if any was needed that the west has no interest in friendship or cooperation with a strong Russia.

    Russia therefore has to decide if it wants to be a bitch for the west or make its own decisions.

    Perhaps they should do what the west does and actively support terrorist organisations against its enemies and bomb them when they act against Russia.

    So basically supply explosives and information to ISIS when it murders French comedians, and then bomb ISIS in friendly (to russia) countries like Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

    I am sure the west would ignore the duplicity the same way it expects Russia to ignore western double standards... airbuses with Iranian civilians and Russian civilians simply don't matter to the west... why should russia care about 11/9... etc.

    The funny thing is that there was potential for cooperation on the so called war on terror, but clearly the west only wants specific terror groups to be targeted.. they clearly don't want a stable peaceful society in Syria... they want another war torn Libya... it is easier to steal resources from an anarchic shithole...

    Lets face it... the vast majority of the effective components of ISIS are just the Sunni components of the former Iraqi army... saddams men...
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    Post  Khepesh on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:58 am

    Kimppis wrote:
    Dforce wrote:

    Sorry, you are missing the point here. It does not matter what Finns think (not that I think you are represtative of the regular Fin) but what the regular Russian think; that is the goal of the USUK propaganda about the bomb.

    I'm not sure that I understood you, but I wasn't talking about the western "propaganda's" target audience (at least that wasn't my point/intention). It's blatantly double standardistic (that's probably not a word) all the same. Although I think that I agree with you for the most part. And Finns don't matter, that's for sure. Smile  
    I think he is saying you are not a "regular" Finn based on about three Finns on the old MP net and on another forum for "sofas" who are foaming at the mouth Russophobe loonies and he thinks all Finns are like that, or should be like that. Willful malicious ignorance from what I suspect is part of the UPA/OUN diaspora in UK.
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    Post  Khepesh on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:10 am

    Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich is saying that the total number of Russians effected is 80,000 and that in the last day or so 11,000 have been flown home. http://ria.ru/world/20151108/1316270668.html
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:40 am

    According to British newspaper Daily Telegraph, to the crash of Flight Airbus A321 may have been involved jihadis from Britain. The publication reports that intelligence intercepted conversations of suspected terrorists, who spoke with a marked British accent.

    The British Daily Telegraph newspaper reported that the crash of Flight to the A321 could be involved jihadis from Britain. According to the publication, the British intelligence intercepted conversations allegedly Britons trained in Syria.

    According to unconfirmed newspaper reports, the alleged terrorists spoke with a British accent. More precisely, with an accent peculiar inhabitants of London and Birmingham. As in Egypt, they are something "marked after the explosion of the plane." This writes the Daily Telegraph, referring to the UK Government Communications Headquarters, whose officers intercepted conversation.

    It is expected that the role of British jihadists "with experience with electronic devices" limited consultations on the bomb assembly.

    Daily Telegraph points out that it is too early to draw conclusions about the perpetrators of the tragedy were British subjects.

    https://russian.rt.com/inotv/2015-11-08/DT-K-krusheniyu-rossijskogo-lajnera


    If true, it would explain how the british were so sure early on that it is w terrorist attack. It also begs to ask the question just how much they knew beforehand, and if it were british 'citizens' that did it,are they still going to continue with their policy of non-cooperation with russia.

    We will soon see the true face of british politics.
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    Post  Neutrality on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:20 pm

    Dforce wrote:Sorry, no, you are wrong, I do not feel that much for Russia.

    Oh but that's precisely what I'm saying you see? If you honestly say such things out loud then I'm starting to think that maybe your eternal butthurt has something to do with past experiences in your life? What happened man, tell us? Did a Russian guy steal your girlfriend or something?
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    Post  Kimppis on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:11 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:
    Dforce wrote:

    Sorry, you are missing the point here. It does not matter what Finns think (not that I think you are represtative of the regular Fin) but what the regular Russian think; that is the goal of the USUK propaganda about the bomb.

    I'm not sure that I understood you, but I wasn't talking about the western "propaganda's" target audience (at least that wasn't my point/intention). It's blatantly double standardistic (that's probably not a word) all the same. Although I think that I agree with you for the most part. And Finns don't matter, that's for sure. Smile  
    I think he is saying you are not a "regular" Finn based on about three Finns on the old MP net and on another forum for "sofas" who are foaming at the mouth Russophobe loonies and he thinks all Finns are like that, or should be like that. Willful malicious ignorance from what I suspect is part of the UPA/OUN diaspora in UK.

    Finnish "military enthusiasts" are certainly quite russophobic on average, even more so after the Ukrainian crisis. I guess those events somehow proved their "fears" about Russia and of course those kind people want to actually "fantasize" and speculate about Finnish-Russian conflict. And their basic narrative is that Putin is another Russian imperialist warmongering dictator who is planning to recreate the Soviet Union/Russian Empire.

    The biggest Finnish military forum has also gotten really Russophobic, same with the military magazine (although I think it's unofficial). The difference is actually huge compared to only a few years ago, when I was doing my military service. Of course that was totally inevitable, but still a massive change in such a short time. Not that difference from the rest of the west, but some differences: mandatory military service (and almost all males actually finish it), no NATO membership (well, not officially) and the history (the narrative: holy war, Finland "won", USSR failed to annex Finland, so they are going to try it again, sooner or later).

    Are "we" as "bad" as the Balts or Poles? Probably not, but I'm not so sure anymore.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:53 pm

    [quote="Morpheus Eberhardt"]
    Werewolf wrote:

    Well said, Werewolf.

    An important point is that all of these terms, e.g., ISIS, Al-Qaeda , bla bla bla, do not correspond to entities existing as "identifiable" groups and organizations. They are newspeak terms that represent the same single "phenomenon" to the prole that are engineered to be suitably gullible to believe in the existence of these putative entities as separate organization. The "phenomenon" that this terminology represents can, of course, be mapped to the "terror warfare" that is currently used by ...

    Exactly.

    GarryB wrote:Further evidence if any was needed that the west has no interest in friendship or cooperation with a strong Russia.

    Russia therefore has to decide if it wants to be a bitch for the west or make its own decisions.

    Perhaps they should do what the west does and actively support terrorist organisations against its enemies and bomb them when they act against Russia.

    So basically supply explosives and information to ISIS when it murders French comedians, and then bomb ISIS in friendly (to russia) countries like Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

    I am sure the west would ignore the duplicity the same way it expects Russia to ignore western double standards... airbuses with Iranian civilians and Russian civilians simply don't matter to the west... why should russia care about 11/9... etc.

    The funny thing is that there was potential for cooperation on the so called war on terror, but clearly the west only wants specific terror groups to be targeted.. they clearly don't want a stable peaceful society in Syria... they want another war torn Libya... it is easier to steal resources from an anarchic shithole...

    Lets face it... the vast majority of the effective components of ISIS are just the Sunni components of the former Iraqi army... saddams men...

    I am pretty sure you are more intelligent than that and understand the long term blow backs that will outweight anything gained beforehand.

    Russia nor any other country that actually seeks for stable, prosperous or becoming such a country, should seek such methods. The US is hated because exactly of that. Russia is already doing good job by just destroying the Wests Propaganda by just using RT and showing the western sheeps that their government are dictatorships that are doing the exact opposite of what they preech and that they are most violent country on this planet. There needs only to be one further step to direct that very same propaganda destruction to germany.

    RT deutsch isn't really big and as soon as germany gets out of the US influence and becomes even a pseudo-souvereign country that will be the biggest blow back to US and its projects like the EU dictatorship. There is not a single country that benefits from EU membership besides oligarchs, private companies and most private banks that are constantly saved from their own missmanagement. All citizens even in the most propagated "prosperous" country germany everyone gets lower payments, each year housing becomes more expensive, heating bills rise, electricity, food, public transportation today is already something most are not willing to pay, it is more expensive then driving a car but cars aren't that cheap either so many risk to drive without a ticket and risk 60 Euro fine.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:47 pm

    Kimppis wrote:

    The biggest Finnish military forum has also gotten really Russophobic
    Indeed. I registered to maanpuolustus.net and got banned after only a few post, for supporting Novorossiya in the Ukrainian civil war.
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    Post  BKP on Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:50 pm

    Dforce wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Dforce wrote:
    Sure it does, any day now the rebels will collapse! russia russia russia

    Always knew you were a little pathetic insecure excuse of a human being and this basically confirms it. As soon as Russia decides to up the game against ISIS and its proxies it wouldn't surprise me if you feel bad for them.

    Sorry, no, you are wrong, I do not feel that much for Russia.

    See, that's total horseshit. You are heavily emotionally involved in Russia. Simply stated, you hate it. If you just admitted it, I would respect you on some level. But, I realize you're a sneaky f*ck, and that's not going to happen. lol1
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:51 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:

    The biggest Finnish military forum has also gotten really Russophobic
    Indeed. I registered to maanpuolustus.net and got banned after only a few post, for supporting Novorossiya in the Ukrainian civil war.

    It seems your government and various people in higher positions are always pushing the anti Russian sentiment and NATO agenda. But it seems the Finnish people have a different opinion. Not everyone of course but seems that not all Finns are brainwashed.
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    Post  BKP on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:21 pm

    Kimppis wrote:Man, you gotta love the double standards

    Russia conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terorist attack against Russia -> "Hahaha, we told you that you are going to pay for your 'military adventures', Putin!"

    US conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terrorist attack against the US -> "You fucking towel heads!!! We are going to kill you all! 'Murica fuck yeah!!! Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!"

    And then we have these theories: "Putin said that there will be no losses/we are protecting the Russian people -> So right now the Kremlin is trying to hide what really happened." Yeah, let's get ahead of ourselves. The investigation is not even over yet and they are stilling planning how to respond.

    And these articles that are actually defending Charlie Hebdo: "Russians have no right to be outraged! This just shows how evil Russian and its regime is! This is all about free speech and freedum. Take that, Putin!"  

    Yep. this is one of the main propaganda strategies they're going with. But, they're also applying it to Russia's Syria campaign as a whole. Russia is always depicted as hiding some truth, which the courageous western MSM is dutifully uncovering. Even after Putin flatly and publicly stated to Charlie Rose that "yes, it's true; we are supporting the legitimate state authority in Syria," the western MSM keeps acting like they're revealing some great, monstrous lie regarding Russia's "true motive" to prop-up Assad and the Syrian government. However, in the internet age, all of this is flimsy as shit. Anyone paying even a little bit of attention can see through it.

    Also, I think that the other propaganda vector, regarding A321, and the hope that it will produce a popular backlash within Russia will be sorely disappointed. The west's open gloating alone ensures that. The west used to do propaganda better than this. This is coming across as particularly ham-fisted. But, as in many things, they are slipping.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:38 pm

    BKP wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:Man, you gotta love the double standards

    Russia conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terorist attack against Russia -> "Hahaha, we told you that you are going to pay for your 'military adventures', Putin!"

    US conducts military operations in the Middle East -> Terrorist attack against the US -> "You fucking towel heads!!! We are going to kill you all! 'Murica fuck yeah!!! Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!"

    And then we have these theories: "Putin said that there will be no losses/we are protecting the Russian people -> So right now the Kremlin is trying to hide what really happened." Yeah, let's get ahead of ourselves. The investigation is not even over yet and they are stilling planning how to respond.

    And these articles that are actually defending Charlie Hebdo: "Russians have no right to be outraged! This just shows how evil Russian and its regime is! This is all about free speech and freedum. Take that, Putin!"  

    Yep. this is one of the main propaganda strategies they're going with. But, they're also applying it to Russia's Syria campaign as a whole. Russia is always depicted as hiding some truth, which the courageous western MSM is dutifully uncovering. Even after Putin flatly and publicly stated to Charlie Rose that "yes, it's true; we are supporting the legitimate state authority in Syria," the western MSM keeps acting like they're revealing some great, monstrous lie regarding Russia's "true motive" to prop-up Assad and the Syrian government. However, in the internet age, all of this is flimsy as shit. Anyone paying even a little bit of attention can see through it.

    Also, I think that the other propaganda vector, regarding A321, and the hope that it will produce a popular backlash within Russia will be sorely disappointed. The west's open gloating alone ensures that. The west used to do propaganda better than this. This is coming across as particularly ham-fisted. But, as in many things, they are slipping.

    Of course there wont be backlash. Already, even after the crash, Putin's popularity increased. And this is with the whole bombing campaign in Syria. All it will do with the plane, if found to be an act of terrorism (which is still under investigation), will just prompt the Russian people to keep bombing the hell out of the terrorists. As one person on this forums already stated in the other thread regarding Russias participation in Syria, the selling of the campaign wasnt "to prevent terrorism happening at home" or "That it will prevent killing of innocent people" but as "Better to fight them over in Syria instead of fighting them here at home". So it is the idea that they are in Syria bombing them to get rid of them, or at least most of them, before they make their attempts in the N.Caucuses and having to deal with a whole lot of them. (they seem to have no problem getting through Georgia on their way to Chechnya, Daegestan and Ignushetia. Gee, I wonder why Mad )
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    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:07 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:

    The biggest Finnish military forum has also gotten really Russophobic
    Indeed. I registered to maanpuolustus.net and got banned after only a few post, for supporting Novorossiya in the Ukrainian civil war.

    It seems your government and various people in higher positions are always pushing the anti Russian sentiment and NATO agenda.  But it seems the Finnish people have a different opinion.  Not everyone of course but seems that not all Finns are brainwashed.
    Only a minority, and a small minority that is.

    Finland never was and never will be a pro-Russian country. I'd say our government is actually less anti-Russian than the Finnish people. In that regard Finland is the opposite of the Anglo-Saxon countries. I never thought that general American and British people hate the Russians or Russia, but their governments are Russia's mortal enemies. Whereas in Finland our government always tries to keep at least somewhat pragmatic relations with Russia, but the anti-Russian segment among common populace is very deep.

    Those Finns who openly support Russia here can get into some trouble.


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
    kvs
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    Incidents in Russia (Natural Disasters, Accidents and Emergencies) - Page 9 Empty Re: Incidents in Russia (Natural Disasters, Accidents and Emergencies)

    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:15 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:

    The biggest Finnish military forum has also gotten really Russophobic
    Indeed. I registered to maanpuolustus.net and got banned after only a few post, for supporting Novorossiya in the Ukrainian civil war.

    It seems your government and various people in higher positions are always pushing the anti Russian sentiment and NATO agenda.  But it seems the Finnish people have a different opinion.  Not everyone of course but seems that not all Finns are brainwashed.
    Only a minority, and a small minority that is.

    Finland never was and never will be a pro-Russian country. I'd say our government is actually less anti-Russian than the Finnish people. In that regard Finland is the opposite of the Anglo-Saxon countries. I never thought that general American and British people hate the Russians or Russia, but their governments are Russia's mortal enemies. Whereas in Finland our government always tries to keep at least somewhat pragmatic relations with Russia, but the anti-Russian segment among common populace is very deep.

    Those Finns who openly support Russia here can be into some trouble here.

    Peculiar people you Finns.  You were sodomized nicely by Sweden but you have affection for it.   But I can't find what happened
    in the last several centuries that would produce such hate for Russia.   My conclusion is that this is due to the 1930s Nazi alignment of Finland and
    its winter war with the USSR.   You have the perverse victimhood complex exhibited by the Baltic chihuahuas.
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    Post  Regular on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:28 am

    Well to be honest, Russians have similar victimhood. Boo hoo we got rid of fascits, we built the factories, roads, houses and now everyone hates us. Post Soviet butthurt is strong. I personally can't stand shit like that, it's enough to look in the past.
    BTW Fins still hold grudge towards Swedes, especially the older ones. It must be something to do with Swedes being unfair rulers of their country at one point, but don't remember exactly, cause I was too drunk when finish guy was telling this story Very Happy

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