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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #1

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:38 am

    Austin wrote:They simply cant add balance recoil mechanish midway to AK-12 design they will have to change the design.

    Here is what Khathi told me at mp.net about AEK-971 advantage over AK-12 
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/printthread.php?t=197506&pp=40&page=201


    The main one is that AEK manages to keep the high-energy action of the AK family (which is largely responsible for its legendary reliability) while doing away the infamous AK kick due to its balanced action. This alone improves the rifle's accuracy almost twofold. AK-12, which doesn't have the balanced action, was, reportedly, approaching the accuracy task by reducing the moving parts energy, which indeed improved accuracy, but greatly reduced the dirt resistance — note that it's only the rumor. Then there are scores of ergonomics and usability improvements — basically, take everything what was hyped about AK-12, and add it to ZiD's design, but it's quite obviously more systematic and thought through, compared to the AK-12's rather haphazard appearance. And their new plastic lower finally features the more or less functional magwell — which AK-12 still lacks.


    I think its easy for AEK-971S to get AK-12 like feature but for AK-12 to get other way round would mean redesign

    But they both passed state tests, so the reliability question for either rifle is already been addressed.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:45 am

    photos of the AEK-971S that is in trials with russian army

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:33 am

    I think its easy for AEK-971S to get AK-12 like feature but for AK-12 to get other way round would mean redesign

    Wouldn't changing both designs require a redesign?

    Kalashnikov has already developed the balanced recoil AK-108 and AK-107... how hard would it be to simply apply the AK12 changes made to the AK-74M to the AK-107?

    I would expect not very hard at all.

    We have all seen footage of the AK12 being fired and recoil really does not seem excessive.

    Personally I would like to see the AK12 and the ADS enter service as standard weapons in the Russian Military. The AEK could be used by MVD and police units and perhaps some special forces units.
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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #1 - Page 26 Empty More photos of the (heavily inspired by H&K) modernized AEK:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:49 am

    GarryB wrote:Wouldn't changing both designs require a redesign?

    Kalashnikov has already developed the balanced recoil AK-108 and AK-107... how hard would it be to simply apply the AK12 changes made to the AK-74M to the AK-107?

    I would expect not very hard at all.

    We have all seen footage of the AK12 being fired and recoil really does not seem excessive.

    Personally I would like to see the AK12 and the ADS enter service as standard weapons in the Russian Military. The AEK could be used by MVD and police units and perhaps some special forces units.

    This is exactly the same position that I advanced., AK-12 for widespread service, AEK for internal security. Just like you said, AEK does not a monopoly on the balanced recoil system, the AK-107 has one, but considering the AK-12 manages significant  recoil reduction without using the balanced recoil system is more impressive...which means that if Kalashnikov Concern decides to put out another AK-12 design that includes the balanced recoil system, that it's recoil may'be reduced by yet another significant margin! BTW for the people who have forgotten, here's a video showcasing the AK-12 firing at full auto, showing a significant reduction in recoil:

    ...At 5:00 minutes in full auto fire

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    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:20 pm

    AS Val and VSS Vintorez

    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #1 - Page 26 TankBiathlon14part3-01-M
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:32 pm

    Question..

    Whats up with the zooming lens in Russian arms?

    In Crimea it was said that Russian military was using Japanesse zooming lens..or perhaps it was night vision lens..
    whats up with the optics industry in Russia? not good enough that need to export it ?
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    Post  sepheronx on Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:29 am

    Vann7 wrote:Question..

    Whats up with the zooming lens in Russian arms?

    In Crimea it was said that Russian military was using Japanesse zooming lens..or perhaps it was night vision lens..
    whats up with the optics industry in Russia? not good enough that need to export it ?

    It is what is available.

    Dunno about zooming lense or anything, but UOMZ makes decent optics.

    Also, it is usually because, much like the Austrian handguns, there are certain people who like to purchase from abroad. Regardless if there is little gain or none over domestic. I know there was a problem in the recent past about optics from Belarus and the like being so so quality, but recently, optic systems like Shahin were considered high quality. Same thing with Russia's new red dot sight (cannot name it for the life of me. I think it was mentioned on this forums and MP.net).
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    Post  Regular on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:43 am

    Russian red dot sights are quite popular among AK users world wide. Newer ones are alright. Thanks to new machinery and technologies.
    Still there is a gap with world leaders of electro optical sight manufacturers. Probably because there isn't big internal market like in USA.
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    Post  sepheronx on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:57 am

    Regular wrote:Russian red dot sights are quite popular among AK users world wide. Newer ones are alright. Thanks to new machinery and technologies.
    Still there is a gap with world leaders of electro optical sight manufacturers. Probably because there isn't big internal market like in USA.

    Guess that is where the benefit of allowing all citizens to get guns was. There is now approximately over 300M of potential gun owners whom will be interested in purchasing the sights and what not. so there are significant amount of manufacturers of these goods.
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    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:26 pm

    A-545 photo
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    Post  im42 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:53 pm

    BIG thanks George1, amazingly cool photo of aek variant I wasn't aware off. Though I ain't "fan" of balanced recoil but have to admit this new compensator looks interesting. Thanks again !
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    Post  Austin on Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:06 am

    Competing firearms for New Assault rifle for Russian Armed Forces

    AK-12

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6214/94845085.ad/0_84489_6501a5cb_XXL
    http://s019.radikal.ru/i627/1309/38/62adad45d8ac.jpg
    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4808/94845085.ad/0_8448b_6702b896_XXL

    A-545 ( based on AEK-971 )

    https://2ch.hk/w/src/161850/1408219897626.jpg
    https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/15/54/62/79/a-54510.jpg
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:22 am

    As far as is known this rifle could also be in the running... it seems to have been adopted by the VDV, and Russian Naval Infantry... though whether it is as a standard weapon replacing the AK or as a specialist weapon for use when needed we don't know for sure...


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    Post  Vann7 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I totally agree, though I suspect the AK12SN might become a standard military weapon with the ADS used by VDV and naval infantry, while paramilitary forces might get different weapons like these new bullpups that have been revealed...

    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #1 - Page 26 Jode110

    In terms of Army weapons the AK12SN will likely include Vintorez type weapons and PKP and RPK-74 and AK-74 and AKS-74U and Vityaz-SN type weapons.


    Which weapons are those ?
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:38 am

    AD-1 and AD-2, they are bullpups in 5.45 and 7.62 x 39mm calibre for the MVD and FSB etc made by Kalashnikov.

    There is report of a new Ratnik armor... a second generation one.. whats is different now?
    Are there pictures of Ratnik2?

    When you complete a project and start production, the first thing you do is start development work on its replacement.

    Ratnik will be in service for a couple of years and likely get upgrades and things replaced etc, but in 5 years or so they will want something to replace it... they will likely start work now looking at technologies that weren't mature enough now for inclusion with Ratnik, but could be ready in 5 years time for Ratnik 2.

    Stuff like liquid armour and new battery technology etc etc.

    Even new, from scratch, designed weapons.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:54 pm


    GarryB wrote:AD-1 and AD-2, they are bullpups in 5.45 and 7.62 x 39mm calibre for the MVD and FSB etc made by Kalashnikov.

    Looks like a pair of cool assault rifles to have in urban warfare..to combat ISIL and other jihadist groups.. pirat
    Will be nice to see it online too ..in a Multiplayer Expansion pack in Battlefield or medal of honor games and its damage modeled correctly. Very Happy

    Means no safe place for anyone to hide. no walls or terrain will cover you.. and people will be calling it a cheat.. Laughing
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    Post  Regular on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:59 pm

    Those AC-1 AC-2 bullpups are quite big, they could be more modular, multipeace and with adjustable length of the barrel and etc. Still looks like finished product and probably great at the range. IMHO best bullpup in the service is Tavor 2 (X-95)
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    Easy conversion to shoot 9mm, Russian 5.45 and Nato 7.62 is amazing thing. I think Russian SF would love to have this (I wouldn't be surprised if they actually have them ordered in small amounts for tests or whatnot)
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:40 pm

    Regular wrote:Those AC-1 AC-2 bullpups are quite big, they could be more modular, multipeace and with adjustable length of the barrel and etc. Still looks like finished product and probably great at the range. IMHO best bullpup in the service is Tavor 2 (X-95)
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    Easy conversion to shoot 9mm, Russian 5.45 and Nato 7.62 is amazing thing. I think Russian SF would love to have this (I wouldn't be surprised if they actually have them ordered in small amounts for tests or whatnot)

    Those are some ugly monstrosities, I've seen some good looking military and civilian versions of Tavor rifles, but you just had to pick the photos of the ugliest version of the weapon on the internet didn't you?
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    Post  Regular on Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:28 pm

    Rolling Eyes Who cares about looks? 
    Thats how weapon look when it's being used not by civilian. 
    Found it on Russian weapons forum where guy serving in IDF was talking about it. 
    Looks ugly as hell to me, like all bullpups
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:40 pm

    I have the opposite aesthetic tastes for weapons than most people my age. I find modern western rifles much uglier due to too much tacticool equipment. Piccatiny rails are the biggest turnoff for me. Russia modern small arms automatically look uglier with it. I wish they could've stuck to the soviet side mounted scop attachment.

    BTW are there any russian designs for an infantry exoskeleton? I would unlock massive possibilities for infantry equipment(imagine exoskeleton equipped troops armed with 14,5 mm assault rifles)
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:16 am

    Those rifles are really ugly, they are so ugly they whisper to me "Kill me!"
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    Post  Asf on Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:28 am

     I would unlock massive possibilities for infantry equipment(imagine exoskeleton equipped troops armed with 14,5 mm assault rifles

    Personally I'd vote for bolters  Very Happy They are small arms which fire rocket-propelled HE shells with AP core and delay fuse to explode in the body of a target! Sounds really brutal to me!

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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:59 am

    IMO russia should stop with the spetznaz fetishism and modernize their equipment after the regular mechanized troops do. There should be less focus on producing superspecialised weapons and immediately focus on weapons used for mass conventional warfare(shmel-M, Ak-12, ORSIS T-5000 instead of VKS or AS val), while any new assault rifle or ratnik suit should be given to regulars.
    The spetsnaz will manage for a long time even with their 90's equipment since they know how to use them to their complete potential unlike regulars.

    It's a fact that the less elite a soldier is, the better(ergonomic, accurate) equipment he needs.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:19 am

    It's a fact that the less elite a soldier is, the better(ergonomic, accurate) equipment he needs.

    Understand what you are saying, but you can give some guy that has lived in a big city all his life a sniper rifle and all the kit he needs to be a sniper and he will likely be a very dangerous person, but he certainly wont be a sniper.

    regarding 14.5mm assault rifles and exoskeletons... 30mm 2A42 in a fully stabilised mount... it is called a BMP-2 and it entered service 20 years ago...
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:00 am

    GarryB wrote:
    It's a fact that the less elite a soldier is, the better(ergonomic, accurate) equipment he needs.

    Understand what you are saying, but you can give some guy that has lived in a big city all his life a sniper rifle and all the kit he needs to be a sniper and he will likely be a very dangerous person, but he certainly wont be a sniper.

    regarding 14.5mm assault rifles and exoskeletons... 30mm 2A42 in a fully stabilised mount... it is called a BMP-2 and it entered service 20 years ago...
    Can the BMP-2 hide in rooms? Can the BMP-2 climb rocks? You're basically saying infantry firepower shouldn't be improved because IFVs will always have larger guns.

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