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35 posters

    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

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    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 Empty Re: Russia - Indonesia arms contracts

    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:45 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Then Russia should retaliate by placing any trade sanctions on Indonesia.
    The cancellation hasn't been confirmed, it could potentially be fake news.


    Russia did not receive notification from Indonesia on Su-35 fighters
    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 1584087111_-35-14

    Indonesia has not yet notified Russia about the cancellation of the contract for the supply of the country's air force to 11 Russian Su-35 fighters. It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to an informed source.

    According to the source, Russia did not receive any notifications from the Indonesian side about the termination of the contract for the supply of Russian fighters.

    There have been no notifications about this yet.

    - the agency quotes the source.

    On the eve of Bloomberg agency reported on the alleged decision by the Indonesian authorities to terminate the contract concluded in 2018 with Russia for the supply of 11 Russian Su-35 fighters in the amount of about 1.1 billion dollars. As explained in Bloomberg, information about this was obtained from a source familiar with the situation. The reason for the refusal was called US pressure on Jakarta with the threat of imposing sanctions.

    Meanwhile, the Russian Ministry of Defense informs that Russia and Indonesia have discussed the dates and venue of the Russian-Indonesian naval exercises Orruda 2020. Earlier, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that relations between Russia and Indonesia in the military sphere and in the military-technical cooperation could reach a new level, the parties could sign a strategic partnership agreement.

    It should be noted that Indonesia has been purchasing Russian weapons for several years. Since 1992, Jakarta has received Su-27 and Su-30MK2 fighters and aviation weapons for them, Mi-17V-5, Mi-35P helicopters, BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles, BTR-80 armored personnel carriers, "hundredth" series Kalashnikov assault rifles . In April last year, a contract was signed for the supply of a batch of BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles and BT-3F armored personnel carriers.


    https://topwar.ru/168960-rossija-ne-poluchala-uvedomlenija-ot-indonezii-po-istrebiteljam-su-35.html
    miketheterrible
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    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 Empty Re: Russia - Indonesia arms contracts

    Post  miketheterrible Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:56 pm

    I rethought my process after the news. Let us think it is cancelled. Best Russia SHOULD do isn't harm Indonesian relations but improve it. It would work in Russia's interest to increase trade with Indonesia greatly. Russia should reach agreements to invest in Indonesian business like agriculture - Cocoa, Rubber, etc. These are things that is in demand in Russia and why not get Russian businesses involved? Then look to build nuclear power plants and other energy companies. Lukoil with gas stations and refineries.

    Once Indonesia gains a huge amount of investment money and trade deals with Russia, then they will be less likely to be interested in pissing Russia off.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:46 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:I rethought my process after the news.  Let us think it is cancelled.  Best Russia SHOULD do isn't harm Indonesian relations but improve it.  It would work in Russia's interest to increase trade with Indonesia greatly.  Russia should reach agreements to invest in Indonesian business like agriculture - Cocoa, Rubber, etc.  These are things that is in demand in Russia and why not get Russian businesses involved?  Then look to build nuclear power plants and other energy companies.  Lukoil with gas stations and refineries.

    Once Indonesia gains a huge amount of investment money and trade deals with Russia, then they will be less likely to be interested in pissing Russia off.

    I don't know. The US installed the precursors of the current regime and it is tainted by this. Let them shop where they want. Russia does not need
    their business.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:32 am

    I think Mike is on to something... US sanctions work against smaller countries because they are dependent on US good will to survive, and while they suffer with the US telling them what to do they think they will suffer more if they disobey... like north korea or cuba or iran or china or russia...

    Of course Russia and China are big enough to not suffer too much and infact when they are clever they can use sanctions to make themselves stronger and more independent... it is much harder for smaller countries to do the same so they need assurances that if the US does something bad that the Russians or Chinese can offset the loss and in fact make it better... ie if the US stops buying Venezuelan oil then Russia could buy it on better terms and use it to make a profit like the US does, but in a way that benefits Venezuela...
    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:41 pm

    The contract has been suspended, not cancelled
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:45 pm

    George1 wrote:The contract has been suspended, not cancelled
    Probably a good move by Indonesia until the effects of the virus hiatus has become much clearer.

    Given what is underway in the US financial and oil markets, on top of the slowdown in the World economy, the debt ridden US (and others like the UK) could be in a very different place by the end of the year in terms of pressure they can apply on others like Indonesia through the $ system.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:16 am

    I quite agree... a change in the economics of things and the Americans might become a bit more reasonable to countries with markets of almost 300 million people like Indonesia... at the start of the 1970s it had 120 million... now in 2020 they have just over 270 million people...
    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:16 pm

    Indonesian Marine Corps intends to acquire 79 more BT-3F armored personnel carriers in Russia

    According to the Indonesian Defense Resource web site, the Indonesian Ministry of Defense has approved a request for 3.6 trillion Indonesian rupees ($ 286 million) for the purchase of an additional 79 Russian BT-3F tracked armored personnel carriers for the Indonesian marine. Together with the first 21 BT-3F armored personnel carriers, contracted in April 2019, this should bring the total number of these vehicles acquired by Indonesia to 100 units.

    Recall that in April 2019, the Ministry of Defense of Indonesia signed a contract with a Russian joint-stock company Rosoboronexport for a total value of $ 175.2 million for the purchase of 22 BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles and 21 BT-3F tracked armored personnel carriers for the Indonesian marine corps. Of this amount, the acquisition of 22 BMP-3F accounts for $ 108 million and the purchase of 21 BT-3F - $ 67.2 million. Supplies of equipment under this contract, which will be manufactured by Kurgan Machine-Building Plant JSC (KMZ), are now expected in 2021 -2022 years. Thus, Indonesia became the starting customer of the BT-3F armored personnel carrier.

    Earlier, the Marine Corps of Indonesia (Korps Marinir - KORMAR) received 54 BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles manufactured by KMZ in a modification for the marine corps under two contracts concluded with Rosoboronexport OJSC - the first 17 BMP-3F vehicles and one BREM-L in 2010 year under the contract of 2009, and another 37 BMP-3F vehicles in 2013 under the contract of 2012 worth 114 million dollars.

    The BT-3F caterpillar floating armored personnel carrier (Bronya Design Bureau) was developed by the Special Engineering Design Bureau JSC (SKBM, Kurgan) on the basis of the BMP-3F initially to a large extent with an eye on promoting primarily the Indonesian Marine Corps, which ultimately crowned success. The decision to create the BT-3F was approved in 2010, for the first time the BT-3F prototype was presented at the Army-2016 International Military Technical Forum.

    In August 2017, KORMAR commander Major General Bambang Sushvantono and a delegation of senior officers of the Indonesian Marine Corps visited Russia specifically to familiarize themselves with BT-3F and discuss its purchase. During the visit, Major General Bambang took part in the Army 2017 international military-technical forum, including a BT-3F proving ground specially held for the Indonesian delegation in Kubinka, and also visited SKBM and KMZ in Kurgan.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3969303.html
    crod
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    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 Empty Did Indonesia cancel SU-35

    Post  crod Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:48 am

    I’ve seen it reported that Indonesia cancelled its SU-35 purchase because of US pressure (sanctions and trade tariffs).
    Reports also suggest that they scrapped Chinese purchases for the same reasons.
    Are these reports accurate?
    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:35 am

    crod wrote:I’ve seen it reported that Indonesia cancelled its SU-35 purchase because of US pressure (sanctions and trade tariffs).
    Reports also suggest that they scrapped Chinese purchases for the same reasons.
    Are these reports accurate?

    See Post n°126.
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    slasher

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    Post  slasher Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:07 am

    George1 wrote:See Post n°126.

    No. This time it's the economic fallout from Covid-19 that has forced the need for budget cuts and delaying weapons purchases. Same with Thailand as per reports as well.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 Empty Re: Russia - Indonesia arms contracts

    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:19 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Then Russia should retaliate by placing any trade sanctions on Indonesia.
    The cancellation hasn't been confirmed, it could potentially be fake news.


    Russia did not receive notification from Indonesia on Su-35 fighters
    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 1584087111_-35-14

    Indonesia has not yet notified Russia about the cancellation of the contract for the supply of the country's air force to 11 Russian Su-35 fighters. It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to an informed source.

    According to the source, Russia did not receive any notifications from the Indonesian side about the termination of the contract for the supply of Russian fighters.

    There have been no notifications about this yet.

    - the agency quotes the source.

    On the eve of Bloomberg agency reported on the alleged decision by the Indonesian authorities to terminate the contract concluded in 2018 with Russia for the supply of 11 Russian Su-35 fighters in the amount of about 1.1 billion dollars. As explained in Bloomberg, information about this was obtained from a source familiar with the situation. The reason for the refusal was called US pressure on Jakarta with the threat of imposing sanctions.

    Meanwhile, the Russian Ministry of Defense informs that Russia and Indonesia have discussed the dates and venue of the Russian-Indonesian naval exercises Orruda 2020. Earlier, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that relations between Russia and Indonesia in the military sphere and in the military-technical cooperation could reach a new level, the parties could sign a strategic partnership agreement.

    It should be noted that Indonesia has been purchasing Russian weapons for several years. Since 1992, Jakarta has received Su-27 and Su-30MK2 fighters and aviation weapons for them, Mi-17V-5, Mi-35P helicopters, BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles, BTR-80 armored personnel carriers, "hundredth" series Kalashnikov assault rifles . In April last year, a contract was signed for the supply of a batch of BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles and BT-3F armored personnel carriers.


    https://topwar.ru/168960-rossija-ne-poluchala-uvedomlenija-ot-indonezii-po-istrebiteljam-su-35.html

    Just like I predicted, it was fake news. The contract negotiations have been resumed, and likely will be implemented in the future.

    Military Review  news Indonesia plans to discuss a contract for Russian Su-35 fighters

    dino00 likes this post

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:51 pm

    CAATSA can be very well used by Indonesia to oblige Sukhoi to reduce the price.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:08 pm

    Isos wrote:CAATSA can be very well used by Indonesia to oblige Sukhoi to reduce the price.

    Whilst on the other hand Russia can say that demand for Sukhoi products is so high they'd better get their order in quick to reserve units.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:32 pm

    Isos wrote:CAATSA can be very well used by Indonesia to oblige Sukhoi to reduce the price.

    CAATSA has failed across the board, and has been rebuked by numerous countries.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:25 am

    CAATSA is damaging US relations with countries it thinks are allies by forcing them to choose because a lot of them are choosing not to be told what they can buy from other vendors...
    ultimatewarrior
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    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 Empty Re: Russia - Indonesia arms contracts

    Post  ultimatewarrior Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:57 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Then Russia should retaliate by placing any trade sanctions on Indonesia.
    The cancellation hasn't been confirmed, it could potentially be fake news.


    Russia did not receive notification from Indonesia on Su-35 fighters
    Russia - Indonesia arms contracts - Page 6 1584087111_-35-14

    Indonesia has not yet notified Russia about the cancellation of the contract for the supply of the country's air force to 11 Russian Su-35 fighters. It is reported by RIA Novosti with reference to an informed source.

    According to the source, Russia did not receive any notifications from the Indonesian side about the termination of the contract for the supply of Russian fighters.

    There have been no notifications about this yet.

    - the agency quotes the source.

    On the eve of Bloomberg agency reported on the alleged decision by the Indonesian authorities to terminate the contract concluded in 2018 with Russia for the supply of 11 Russian Su-35 fighters in the amount of about 1.1 billion dollars. As explained in Bloomberg, information about this was obtained from a source familiar with the situation. The reason for the refusal was called US pressure on Jakarta with the threat of imposing sanctions.

    Meanwhile, the Russian Ministry of Defense informs that Russia and Indonesia have discussed the dates and venue of the Russian-Indonesian naval exercises Orruda 2020. Earlier, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that relations between Russia and Indonesia in the military sphere and in the military-technical cooperation could reach a new level, the parties could sign a strategic partnership agreement.

    It should be noted that Indonesia has been purchasing Russian weapons for several years. Since 1992, Jakarta has received Su-27 and Su-30MK2 fighters and aviation weapons for them, Mi-17V-5, Mi-35P helicopters, BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles, BTR-80 armored personnel carriers, "hundredth" series Kalashnikov assault rifles . In April last year, a contract was signed for the supply of a batch of BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles and BT-3F armored personnel carriers.


    https://topwar.ru/168960-rossija-ne-poluchala-uvedomlenija-ot-indonezii-po-istrebiteljam-su-35.html

    Just like I predicted, it was fake news. The contract negotiations have been resumed, and likely will be implemented in the future.

    Military Review  news Indonesia plans to discuss a contract for Russian Su-35 fighters

    CAATSA killed Indonesia deal for Su-35. Indonesia is simply not a super power like China which can go up against America. America is the world bully. Think Nelson Mandela Muntz in The Simpsons.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:06 am

    Did you not read what you quoted?

    Specifically this at the end:

    Just like I predicted, it was fake news. The contract negotiations have been resumed, and likely will be implemented in the future.
    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:42 am

    Rafale or Su-35: Indonesia cannot decide on the choice of fighter
    December 10, 2020
    20


    France is going to increase production of Rafale 4+ generation fighters. This is due to the intentions of the Indonesian Air Force to update its aircraft fleet with these particular combat vehicles.




    The Indonesian government in recent months has not been able to decide what kind of fighters to buy for the needs of its air forces. So, in the early spring of 2020, the Indonesian press, with links to representatives of the defense department, began to publish materials that official Jakarta was going to contract a batch of Russian Su-35s, but then decided to postpone.

    At the same time, Bloomberg, citing sources in the US White House administration, reported that Indonesia allegedly refused to purchase Russian Su-35 fighters.

    There were claims that American pressure was the main reason for the decision not to rush things. We are talking about the CAATSA sanctions package, which Washington scares all countries that cooperate with Russia in military-technical terms. Indonesia is no exception.

    However, a few months later, Jakarta again announced that they were ready to discuss the possibility of concluding a deal for the supply of Su-35. But at the same time, statements were made that "part of the contract can be paid for with palm oil." Then these statements caused a significant resonance in Russia.

    Now new reports from Indonesia. After a statement by Washington officials that sanctions “can be expected by countries purchasing rusty Russian weapons"(This is a quote from Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs Clark Cooper), in Jakarta they played back again. Now, press reports citing senior officials say Indonesia is "ready to buy French Rafale." In France, according to the Western press, they immediately responded, declaring their readiness to expand production.

    At the same time, the following is interesting: the journalists asked the manufacturer Rafale: can a potential deal be paid for with palm oil? The representatives of the French company could not answer this question, expressing obvious bewilderment and thinking that this was a joke. It turns out that the very possibility of payment by Indonesia for a possible order for fighters with palm oil by France is definitely not being considered. True, there is no talk of the contract itself as such.
    https://topwar.ru/177978-rafale-ili-su-35-indonezija-ne-mozhet-opredelitsja-s-vyborom-istrebitelja.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:28 am

    Russia should start testing nuclear weapons. These sanctions that just completely cut a deal off like this are unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.

    If it wasn't for caatsa, Russia would have this sale done



    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:57 am

    Russias government trade representatives need to go to Indonesia and sit down with them and go over all their talks with the US over what measures the US will take against Indonesia over an Indonesian purchase of Su-35s.

    I am sure Russia could fill any gaps the US wants to create and reduce any damage the US might cause to Indonesia with their petty and anti free market actions...

    Indonesia might even improve trade relations further with Russia at the expense of US companies who will end up being the losers in this...
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:31 am

    There are always ways around sanctions and one of the main ones is to have a fall company involved.

    Make it look like some kind of private sale to some shell company owned by other shell companies and some no name guy. Then once sanctions hit, liquidate the shell company that sanctions are on, then take the assets and use them.

    But that is a long process and US may figure it out. Otherwise, Indonesia proves it isn't a sovereign nation.

    Nations should simply just say "go ahead, sanction us" and the us can't sanction the world.
    Backman
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    Post  Backman Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:42 pm

    ^ Nah I would try a different approach. Tell the US that one more sanction against the su 35 means we will pull out of the nuclear test ban treaty. Simple as that. That's what Vladimir Zerihinovsky would do.


    https://youtu.be/-nzSqIVfPu4
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:39 am

    Zhirinovsky is a nutter... Russia really would not benefit from testing nukes.

    The US has power over small countries because they tend to be dependent on the US and access to international markets via the US.

    The best way for Russia to deal with this is to offer to take the place of the US and support those small countries and offer deals on better terms... the small countries will probably benefit more from good relations with Russia than normal (bad) relations with the US...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:03 am

    GarryB wrote:Zhirinovsky is a nutter... Russia really would not benefit from testing nukes.

    The US has power over small countries because they tend to be dependent on the US and access to international markets via the US.

    The best way for Russia to deal with this is to offer to take the place of the US and support those small countries and offer deals on better terms... the small countries will probably benefit more from good relations with Russia than normal (bad) relations with the US...

    The best things Russia and all those small countries could do is Tax the US and Western goods to 90-95% of the sold items value before their Western companies can take in the profit. A few dozen countries (including Russia) does this and it starts making a huge impact!

    GarryB likes this post


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