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    BMP-1 & BMP-2 in Russian Army

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:04 pm

    franco wrote:BMP-2M's have been entering service quietly over the past 2 years. Seem to be arriving at those units 1 company (10 units) at a time. Army units reporting deliveries so far include the 2nd Guards Motor Rifle division, 21st and 74th Guards Motor Rifle brigades, 90th Guards Tank division and the 201st Military base.

    BMP-1M's have also been delivered to unidentified units.

    Apparently there is also an upgrade program in place for MT-LB's. According to the Swedish Defense Research Institute, 500 alone were upgraded between 2016-2018. No figures since but it makes sense to continue such a program. An upgraded MT-LB was shown at Army 2020.

    MT-LB is like US M113 for Russian Army Smile
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:23 am

    There are places in Russia where the snow or the mud is too deep to operate BMPs.... the MTLB is the sort of vehicle you would explore the arctic with... and many existing vehicles in every Russian and Soviet Units already have MTLB based vehicles including the ACRV-2 command vehicles... in many ways it is more like the American Jeep but for cold conditions...
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:42 am

    franco wrote:Apparently there is also an upgrade program in place for MT-LB's. According to the Swedish Defense Research Institute, 500 alone were upgraded between 2016-2018. No figures since but it makes sense to continue such a program. An upgraded MT-LB was shown at Army 2020.

    Recent info here:

    https://военное.рф/2020/Технологии14/

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    franco
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    Post  franco on Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:55 am

    LMFS wrote:
    franco wrote:Apparently there is also an upgrade program in place for MT-LB's. According to the Swedish Defense Research Institute, 500 alone were upgraded between 2016-2018. No figures since but it makes sense to continue such a program. An upgraded MT-LB was shown at Army 2020.

    Recent info here:

    https://военное.рф/2020/Технологии14/

    "How many cars have undergone major repairs since then?:
    We launched a separate workshop for major repairs of MT-LB in 2015, and since the same year we have been fulfilling the state defense order. In the first year, 26 cars were repaired, then the number began to grow. Over five years, about 800 different models of equipment from the MT-LB family have been overhauled. Accordingly, we repair 180-200 units a year."
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:14 am

    BMP-1 & BMP-2 in Russian Army - Page 10 D1X_3081

    Repairs involve total overhauls.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:11 am

    The MTLB is popular... even Sweden had some ex east german examples in service for a while... they ended up selling them to Finland I think... who still use it.
    franco
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    Post  franco on Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:53 pm

    Original order was for 540 BMP-2M's and BMD-2M's (no breakdown mentioned but would assume mostly BMP's) and apparently there has been a follow-up order for 230 more BMP-2M's. As for the BMD-2M's, have only heard one unconfirmed report of a company (10 units) arriving at the 76th Division for testing and training.

    EDIT: there is also a contract to upgrade the BRM-1K reconnaissance version. Unknown as to the numbers or upgrade level. There is one BRM-1K assigned to each reconnaissance platoon.

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    franco
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    Post  franco on Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:19 pm

    "Basurmanin" goes into operation

    Modernization of old equipment becomes a trend of the Ministry of Defense

    First-generation infantry fighting vehicles, which have undergone factory upgrades, appear to be starting to enter the army. Evidence of this was the demonstration of the BMP-1AM at the static site of the international scientific and technical forum "Army-2020", and it was allocated a place among other types of armored vehicles in service with the Land Forces of the Russian Federation.

    In addition, photos of a train in the area of ​​the Barnaul railway station carrying at least 20 BMP-1AM appeared on the Internet. Visually, they differ from the serial configuration by replacing the squat turret with a short-barreled gun with a high combat module from the BTR-82A with a 30-mm automatic cannon.

    There is no official information about the acceptance of the BMP-1AM for supply yet. However, on June 4, 2019, at a conference call of the military department, its head Sergei Shoigu said: “This year, the troops should receive over 400 new and modernized units of armored vehicles, including T-72BZM tanks with domestic sighting and observation systems, T-90M "Breakthrough-3", T-80BVM and BMP-1AM infantry fighting vehicles ".

    According to the table with the technical characteristics of the full-scale exhibit in Kubinka, the external dimensions remained the same, except for the height. It has grown by almost half a meter, up to 2550 mm. The number of the crew (three people) and the number of seats in the troop compartment (eight servicemen) remained unchanged.

    The base engine UTD-20 is replaced with a more resourceful version of the C1 (as in the BMP-2) while maintaining the maximum power of 300 hp. (industry offers other solutions as well).

    The mass in combat equipment has grown to 14.2 tons, but the maximum speed on the highway (65 km / h) and the fuel range (550 km) remained.

    The old radio station R-123M gave way to the modern R-168-25U-2, one of a dozen versions of such equipment from the digital complex "Aqueduct", designed to meet the needs of tactical level army units for stable and well-protected radio communications.

    Power of fire

    Instead of a turret with a 73-mm smooth-bore gun 2A28 "Thunder", a combat module with a 30-mm automatic cannon 2A72, stabilized in two planes, was installed. For its time, "Thunder" had good qualities, especially in the defeat of fortified enemy positions on the battlefield, including pillboxes, bunkers, etc. A PG-15V shot with a PG-9V cumulative grenade could even knock out a tank. By now, however, the armored vehicles of the NATO bloc countries have received multi-layer spaced armor with increased anti-cumulative properties.

    By today's standards, the "Thunder" has a low muzzle velocity and accuracy of fire, and its installation in a small turret imposed strong restrictions on the aiming angles, especially vertical. In addition, the reserves of previously produced shells have been exhausted, and it is illogical to resume the release of shots of a unique caliber, which, in addition to the BMP-1, was used only by the LNG-9 easel grenade launcher. Therefore, rearmament with a very common and well-proven 30-mm machine gun is a rather forced measure for reasons of unification and ammunition.

    Thus, in terms of the force of fire from a barrel weapon, the BMP-1AM caught up with the BTR-82A and BMP-2. Replacing the classic turret with a modern combat module also improves visibility for the commander and gunner-operator. And high firing accuracy is provided by a new fire control system, which includes a sight with a night channel for shooting in the dark.

    At the same time, the maximum elevation angle of the barrel increased to 74 degrees, and now you can shoot not only at ground targets, but also at air targets. And it is also more effective to operate in urban combat conditions, when you need to fire on the upper floors.

    To combat armored enemy targets, the 9K115 Metis anti-tank missile system is used. The launch is carried out at a target located at a distance of up to 2 km, penetration - 950 mm of armor.

    Dynamic display

    The first public appearance of the BMP-1AM took place a couple of years ago during a dynamic display at the Alabino training ground, held within the framework of the IMTF Army events. Telling the audience about this participant, the organizers of the event added their own name "Basurmanin" to the alphanumeric designation.

    Such an unusual choice of the name has caused speculation that the product is supposedly intended mainly for export. The appearance of the word "basurmanin" in Russian refers to the Middle Ages; the population of Russia called them the belligerent foreigners of the Muslim faith.

    Following this logic, one could assume that the target audience was the countries of the Near and Middle East. In total, they received several thousand BMP-1, and many remain in service to this day. Since 1966, at the production site in Chelyabinsk (since 2011, the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant is part of the Uralvagonzavod corporation), more than 20 thousand of these machines have been assembled, two-thirds of which were exported.

    Many BMP-1 and BMP-2 are in service with India, including a significant number assembled under license. Delhi has long been making plans to modernize its fleet of infantry fighting vehicles with the participation of foreign firms and the widespread involvement of local companies, but so far no option has been identified that is acceptable in terms of price and quality.

    The presence of solvent customers in the world set up domestic developers and manufacturers of armored vehicles to develop proposals for the revision of old samples with the hope of receiving orders both from abroad and from their own army.

    Several organizations were involved in the modernization of the BMP-1 and BMP-2. Over the course of a couple of decades, they have collectively developed a wide range of options - from fairly simple to very radical. But the attention of customers was attracted only by two of them: the relatively inexpensive for the BMP-1 and the somewhat more expensive for the BMP-2. Prototypes of BMP-1AM and BMP-2M were put forward together to a firing position as part of a dynamic display of equipment during the Army forum. The next episodes were with the participation of BMP-3, BTR-82A and BMD, etc., which provided the audience with the opportunity to form a personal impression of the capabilities of all these machines and each separately, as well as compare them with each other. And foreign buyers should decide on their own choice of a way to modernize Soviet and Russian-made infantry fighting vehicles.

    Pros and cons

    As already mentioned, "Basurmanin" is a budget modernization, which allows to extend the age of old technology (the basic design of 1965) by another 10 years. The Russian army retains up to a thousand BMP-1. Replacing them with the same number of brand new BMP-3s from the factory will require an amount of about 82-86 billion rubles, if the calculation is based on figures from open sources about the batch purchased in 2019 through the state defense order. Meanwhile, such machines are exported at much higher prices; a batch of one thousand units will cost a foreign client $ 2.5 billion. In a word, a one-to-one replacement does not take place primarily for economic reasons.

    The appearance of "Basurmanin" in the Russian troops will certainly arouse increased interest abroad, because many countries have made it a rule to purchase for themselves only serial products purchased by the army of the manufacturing country. The overall export potential is great, given the several thousand BMP-1s in long-term storage warehouses. In case of appropriate agreement, before delivery to a foreign customer, they can be removed from storage and subjected to appropriate work in the factory.

    Experts criticize the Basurmanin for its low security and mobility (at the level of the serial BMP-1), as well as for its modest ability to fight tanks. The vulnerability to enemy fire can be reduced by installing additional protection in the form of hinged / overhead screens, following the example of the corresponding kit for the BMP-2M. True, this will lead to an additional decrease in mobility.

    A radical way to increase the thrust-to-weight ratio can be the installation of a new UTD-23 turbocharged diesel engine capable of delivering 400 hp, which is 100 "horses" more than the standard UTD-20. Industry representatives sometimes talk about a more powerful power plant in relation to the conventional BMP-1AM, although there are no facts confirming the customer's decision on this matter yet.

    An increased power engine and a gearbox suitable for it are one of the main requirements of the Indian military department for the program to modernize the fleet of Russian BMPs. It is explained by the conditions of a hotter climate, as well as the need to conduct operations in high altitude conditions. If a foreign customer pays for the relevant work, this will become an additional incentive for the Russian military.

    Strengthening anti-tank weapons is not a new topic, they have been engaged in it since Soviet times. As more advanced anti-tank missiles were created, they were tried on on the BMP-1. Initially, the car was armed with "Baby", since 1979 - "Fagot". Modernization options offered by Russian firms included the installation of an MB2 fighting compartment with a Konkurs ATGM (Muromteplovoz), a Cleaver or Bereg module with a Kornet ATGM (KBP JSC). The latter is equipped with a digital automated fire control system with various sensors (including thermal imagers) for hitting targets day and night from a 30-mm cannon and ATGM at a distance of up to 8 km.

    The main problem is related to the installation of additional protection, a new engine and missiles - high financial costs, incomparable with the residual value of the BMP-1. However, this is not the only point. The infantry fighting vehicle was conceived by the military and designers as a means of transporting squad personnel along roads and / or rough terrain in order to deliver them to the place of combat missions, and after dismounting - support with fire.

    Half a century ago, Soviet military doctrine focused on large-scale offensive operations by tank and motorized rifle formations with massive air and artillery support. Numerous BMP-1s were to operate in a single deployed formation with tanks. Although its design made it possible to fire from machine guns, it was believed that, sitting in a combat vehicle, the infantry would not be able to perform the tasks assigned to it. To do this, motorized riflemen need to dismount several hundred meters before the front line of the trenches and then operate under the cover of armored vehicles fire, which would suppress enemy firing points with cannon and machine-gun fire.

    The task of destroying enemy tanks was not assigned to the BMP-1; she could only defend herself by hitting an armored enemy with 73-mm cannon and ATGM fire. It was impossible to achieve a direct hit by the "Baby" in motion - only from a stop (in defense - from a place). Having consumed one missile, the crew could prepare for a re-launch by manually placing the next "Baby" on the guide located on the tower, for which it was necessary to open the hatches and get out.

    According to the purpose, the armor protection of the BMP-1 was chosen on the basis of impenetrability "head-on" from a small-caliber automatic cannon, and "into the side" - from a large-caliber machine gun. After the appearance of the BMP-1, Western countries developed improved ammunition, which reduced its security. Nevertheless, as the experience of local conflicts shows, armor today can withstand shots from grenade launchers, machine guns and machine guns of 7.62 mm caliber, and also protects against fragments of anti-personnel mines, hand grenades and mortars of up to 82 mm caliber.

    In a word, the BMP-1 is still capable of performing the main tasks assigned to it when it is put into service. Therefore, in fact, it continues to be in service with the Ground Forces. Modernization in the "Basurmanin" version will not give her a "second youth", but will only prolong the active service life, slightly increasing the functionality and ability to act in the conditions of modern armed conflicts.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:13 pm

    BMP-2M in his natural environment

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:14 pm

    Taking a bath

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    franco
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    Post  franco on Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:43 am

    From the base to "Basurmanin". Problems of modernization of the BMP-1

    The Russian army has a large and well-developed fleet of various types of infantry fighting vehicles. Its oldest representative is the BMP-1 family of vehicles - both linear armored vehicles and products based on them. They are old and morally outdated. Continuing the operation of such equipment requires repair and deep modernization. However, until recently this issue had no solution.

    A sample from the past

    The BMP-1 was put into service in 1966 and then went into production. The production of this technique was launched at several domestic enterprises. The construction of the first BMP model continued in our country until 1983, after which it was completely replaced by the production of the newer BMP-2. By this time, more than 20 thousand armored vehicles had been produced. The main recipient of the equipment was the Soviet army; some of the products were transferred to friendly countries. In addition, licensed production was organized in several states with Soviet support.

    According to the IISS reference book The Military Balance 1991-1992, in the early nineties, the Soviet / Russian army's BMP fleet included 16.5 thousand units, and a significant part of it were vehicles of the first model. There was also a large stock of equipment at storage bases. Subsequently, the number of BMPs in combat units and in reserve was reduced, mainly due to older models.

    The Military Balance for the current year shows how the BMP fleet has changed by now. According to the IISS, only 500 BMP-1 BMP-1s remain in combat units, and approx. 7 thousand cars are in storage. At the same time, the BMP-1 has long lost its leadership in number in the ranks. The reasons for this are obvious, and the main one is moral and physical obsolescence.

    Update problem

    Various options for updating and improving the BMP-1 have been developed since the seventies. For example, in 1979 a modification of the BMP-1P entered service with a new 9K111 Fagot missile system and smoke grenade launchers. A few years later, a version of the BMP-1D appeared with enhanced protection, but without missiles and the ability to sail - it was intended for use in Afghanistan.

    In the nineties, new attempts began to modernize the aging armored vehicle. A number of organizations offered their own options for updating the BMP-1 with the replacement of certain units. Basically, such projects were intended to improve combat performance and provided for the replacement of standard weapons.

    So, the BMP-1-30 "Razbezhka" project provided for the installation of a tower from the BMD-2 landing vehicle. Together with it, the infantry vehicle received a 30-mm 2A42 automatic cannon, a PKT machine gun and a Fagot / Konkurs missile system. The possibility of installing a tower from the BMP-2 with similar weapons was also considered. It was assumed that after such a modernization, the BMP-1 would get rid of the characteristic shortcomings of the 2A28 "Thunder" gun.

    Several projects were proposed with a general index BMP-1M. In the version from the Tula Instrument Design Bureau, it provided for the installation of the TKB-799 Kliver combat module with a 30-mm 2A72 cannon, a machine gun and four 9K135 Kornet ATGM missiles. The project of the same name from the Muromteplovoz enterprise proposed replacing the original tower with MB2-03 or MB2-05 combat modules. With this modernization, the BMP-1 received a 2A42 cannon, a PKTM machine gun and an AGS-17 grenade launcher, or Konkurs missiles.

    All options for upgrading the BMP-1 were demonstrated at exhibitions and offered to a potential customer in the person of the Ministry of Defense. However, no orders followed, and the projects did not progress beyond the assembly and testing of experimental equipment. At that time, the army had not yet decided on the need for mass modernization of the BMP-1, and besides, it did not have sufficient funds.

    BMP + BTR

    In 2018, at the Army forum, NPK Uralvagonzavod presented for the first time yet another project for the modernization of an infantry fighting vehicle - BMP-1AM Basurmanin. This project again proposes the replacement or alteration of part of the units, and the main focus is on updating the weapons complex.

    As part of the modernization, Basurmanin receives an UTD-20S1 modification engine manufactured by the Barnaultransmash plant; transmission and chassis are undergoing repair and restoration. New displacement wings are used to improve performance on the water.

    The standard fighting compartment of the BMP-1 in the AM project is being replaced by a turret cannon and machine gun mount from the BTR-82A armored personnel carrier. It carries a 30-gun 2A72, a PKTM machine gun, a 9K115 Metis ATGM and smoke grenade launchers. A combined sight TKN-4GA-01 is used for guidance. The old R-123M radio station is being dismantled and replaced by the modern R-168-25U-2, which ensures its integration into modern command and control systems.

    The BMP-1AM retains the length and width of the base vehicle, but the height increases to 2.55 m. The combat weight increases to 14.2 tons. The running characteristics remain the same. The crew, as before, includes three people. There are still 8 soldiers in the troop compartment. The exit is through aft doors or upper hatches.

    The first demonstration of the BMP-1AM vehicle took place at the Army-2018. At the same time, reports appeared in the press about the start of serial modernization in 2019, but the details were not followed.

    In June last year, the leadership of the Ministry of Defense revealed plans for the production of new armored vehicles and the modernization of existing vehicles. Until the end of 2019, it was planned to supply 400 armored vehicles of various types to the troops, incl. BMP-1AM after modernization. In what quantity and where such equipment should have been received was not specified.

    Last year's news directly indicated the launch of a serial modernization of existing infantry fighting vehicles. However, the adoption of the AM modification was not reported. Moreover, information of this kind is still lacking.

    At the end of June this year, curious photos appeared on profile resources. A train with Basurmans on platforms in the amount of 15-20 units was seen near Barnaul. Most likely, these were serial modernization vehicles heading to the duty station. Thus, the fact of assembling the BMP-1AM is confirmed, and the score for these machines is already in dozens. It should be borne in mind that the "Barnaul" batch of armored vehicles may not be the first.

    Obsolete and promising

    Currently, approx. 500 BMP-1. This technique has long become obsolete, but they are not going to write it off yet. The consequence of this is the modernization project of BMP-1AM "Basurmanin". Its implementation has already started, and the first updated cars by now could get into parts.

    It is easy to see that the Basurmanin project, with all its advantages, provides for a limited revision of the original design. In fact, only the fighting compartment is replaced, while the power plant as a whole, the armored hull, etc. remain the same and retain the original characteristics. As a result, some of the parameters and capabilities are improving, but otherwise it remains the old BMP-1. With all this, modernization does not require large costs.

    The BMP-1AM project has both pros and cons. However, it is a necessary and temporary measure, and its main goal is to maintain the operability and suitability of outdated equipment. The extension of the resource and replacement of weapons will allow the updated combat vehicles to remain in service for another 10-12 years. And by the time the Basurman is decommissioned, the army will have time to obtain a sufficient number of BMPs of the new generation and carry out a full refurbishment with all the desired results.

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