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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:12 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:04 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    I don't buy this.  The RuN wouldn't spend money dry-docking her and performing maintenance (including cleaning and repainting her hull) if a modernisation wasn't feasible.  IMHO it all depends on how well the Nahkimov rebuilt goes...

    Oh it's "feasible" alright but the amount of money it would cost doesn't make it worth it at all.

    We have been over this already.
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.

    Wait what have you done with PapaDragon?

    I guess SeigSoloyvov is next.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.

    This is really stupid since no large ships will supplement the nakhimov. I believe the lider will be built during petr velikiy's modernization because the Pacific fleet needs large ships and the slavas don't cut it.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:46 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    I don't buy this.  The RuN wouldn't spend money dry-docking her and performing maintenance (including cleaning and repainting her hull) if a modernisation wasn't feasible.  IMHO it all depends on how well the Nahkimov rebuilt goes...

    Oh it's "feasible" alright but the amount of money it would cost doesn't make it worth it at all.

    We have been over this already.

    Worth what? Still having JUST 1 operational battlecruiser into the 2020s that is completely insufficient for the RuN's needs?
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:37 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:............

    Worth what? Still having JUST 1 operational battlecruiser into the 2020s that is completely insufficient for the RuN's needs?

    Well big ships don't just come out of the blue. It takes time.

    Pricetag for upgrade of Lazarev would be approaching price of brand new Yasen sub and would be practically on par with price of new Borei sub.

    Lazarev doesn't stand a chance there because for Russian Navy new submarines will always take priority over upgrading old surface vessels.

    Upgrading Nakhimonov will last roughly until 2020 and after that they will spend another 5 or more years upgrading Peter the Great.

    At that point they will have Lider project ready for construction so it will make more sense to invest in brand new ship than to spend another half a decade upgrading old one at exorbitant prices.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:44 am

    What makes you think the Koalitsiya has a dual feed system? It is not a belt fed autocannon like the 2a42.

    Belt feed is irrelevant... a 30mm cannon on a BMP-2 is designed to engage different targets, but it carries HEI-T and AP-T ammo... AP is a waste against soft targets and HE is a waste against hard targets so the gun uses a dual feed to allow HE or AP to be used.

    A naval gun is the same... most of the time simple standard HE rounds are fired, but sometimes another round needs to be used, so having a separate feed with a different ammo type makes it ready to fire too.

    As mentioned a different propellent feed option would be valuable too especially as the Coalition is known to use a variable propellent feed system to match the current targets requirements.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:57 am

    Well big ships don't just come out of the blue. It takes time.


    Well big ships don't just come out of the blue. It takes time.
    No these big ships are in a drydock, better than being on the drawing board and then built for 10+ years by incompetents.

    Pricetag for upgrade of Lazarev would be approaching price of brand new Yasen sub and would be practically on par with price of new Borei sub.


    Lazarev doesn't stand a chance there because for Russian Navy new submarines will always take priority over upgrading old surface vessels.

    Except a brand new yasen sub only appears every 7-9 years or so. Compared to 5-6 years to upgrade nakhimov. Also:

    Yasen doesn't have area air defence
    Yasen can't protect task forces
    Yasen is as vulnerable to US subs or even more due to lacking as plentiful anti-torp countermeasures and lacking escorts.
    Yasen has 2-3 times less UKSK cells
    Yasen doesn't have radar
    Yasen can't power project
    Yasens can't replace Slavas

    Therefore, having more 1144s is more useful and efficient than waiting for yasens.

    Upgrading Nakhimonov will last roughly until 2020 and after that they will spend another 5 or more years upgrading Peter the Great.

    And it takes 7-9 years to build a single Yasen and who knows how much for a leader

    At that point they will have Lider project ready for construction so it will make more sense to invest in brand new ship than to spend another half a decade upgrading old one at exorbitant prices

    Lider still won't have the sheer firepower potential of a 1144 and who knows how long they will be built or how expensive they'll be. If the liders would start being built in 2024-25 only then it would make sense to throw away the kirovs.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:28 am


    Lider still won't have the sheer firepower potential of a 1144 and who knows how long they will be built or how expensive they'll be. If the liders would start being built in 2024-25 only then it would make sense to throw away the kirovs.

    A full NPP upgrade to the new systems developed for large and heavy ships would be expensive but would create a much faster and much more capable ship and any bugs or problems can be identified and incorporated into the design of the next gen cruisers that will replace the Kirovs.

    An initial high cost but greatly reduced operational costs and all the new systems will be highly automated and will reduce crew requirements dramatically.

    I rather suspect the Lider will be optimised for modular weapons launchers and therefore be better placed to carry more weapon tubes in a more efficient way.

    More compact electronics and propulsion systems would also likely free up more space and if used efficiently would allow long trips with less support needed...

    The important bit is that a Cruiser is useful now can could sail with one or two other vessels in support, whereas a carrier would need more support vessels, but in turn would offer better support to the vessels they operate with.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:56 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:No these big ships are in a drydock,

    Not ships, only one ship. Single not plural. And that one is nearly useless (Lazarov). Lead ship (Ushakov) is completely useless (fried reactor)  


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:...better than being on the drawing board and then built for 10+ years by incompetents.

    As opposed to being upgraded by incompetents? You do realize you are talking about same people here?


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:....Except a brand new yasen sub only appears every 7-9 years or so. Compared to 5-6 years to upgrade nakhimov.

    6 years at least and probably longer. As for Yasens last 5 were laid down in year long intervals. They will be coming online in similar tempo.


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen doesn't have area air defence

    Doesn't need it, not in it's job description. It has bigger fish to fry.


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen can't protect task forces

    Yes it can.

    Also Russia still doesn't have any permanent task force to speak of.


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen is as vulnerable to US subs or even more due to lacking as plentiful anti-torp countermeasures and lacking escorts.

    BS.

    Yasen is one of best protected subs in existence. Where do you think Paket-M came from? And that is just stuff we know of.



    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen has 2-3 times less UKSK cells

    More than enough for it's intended job.



    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen doesn't have radar

    Subs don't need radars


    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasen can't power project

    Yes it can. Also, not it's job description anyway.



    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Yasens can't replace Slavas

    Slavas are also irrelevant for Russian Navy when compared to nuclear submarines.

    Now if they used money that would have been spent on upgrading Lazarev and spent it on frigates they would be able to purchase dozen of them easy thus creating those Task Forces you speak of.

    Again, Lazarov loses out when faced with logic.



    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Lider still won't have the sheer firepower potential of a 1144

    Says who? You?

    According to current data Lider will have similar number of VLS cells to upgraded Kirov-class. This is not some big news.



    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the liders would start being built in 2024-25 only then it would make sense to throw away the kirovs.

    That's exactly when they will start ordering Liders and when other 2 Kirovs will officially be scrapped. Nakhimonov and Peter the Great will get upgrades and resume service.
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    Post  Kimppis on Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:45 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Except a brand new yasen sub only appears every 7-9 years or so.

    More like 6. And a brand new Yasen boat will enter service every year starting from this year, 2018, I think.
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.

    So what made you suddenly supportive of the Lider class? The potential for Russia to build a Shtorm or 2?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:53 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.

    So what made you suddenly supportive of the Lider class? The potential for Russia to build a Shtorm or 2?

    I was never unsupportive of Lider-class. I simply believe that RuN should build up it's fleet of corvettes and frigates in sufficient numbers before committing to construction of small number of large vessels that will take long time to build.

    Anyone who read my comments should be familiar with this opinion.

    And above all I disagree with moron's assertion that Lider-class destroyer is secretly already under construction somewhere. It's and idiotic fantasy and anyone who believes it is complete and irredeemable retard.

    As for Shtorm I said all I needed to say about it. Russia doesn't need it, plain and simple.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    After Nakhimonov's upgrade it's Peter the Great's turn.

    Once both are done (which will take a while due to scope of the work) construction of first Lider-class ship should start.

    So what made you suddenly supportive of the Lider class? The potential for Russia to build a Shtorm or 2?

    I was never unsupportive of Lider-class. I simply believe that RuN should build up it's fleet of corvettes and frigates in sufficient numbers before committing to construction of small number of large vessels that will take long time to build.

    Anyone who read my comments should be familiar with this opinion.

    And above all I disagree with moron's assertion that Lider-class destroyer is secretly already under construction somewhere. It's and idiotic fantasy and anyone who believes it is complete and irredeemable retard.

    As for Shtorm I said all I needed to say about it. Russia doesn't need it, plain and simple.

    I agree with you, to me it seems the smaller vessels the Russian Navy is building are calling into question the need for large capital ships. I think the Kirov rebuild is a cheaper way to test the concept Leider with less spend. The 23350M I think will be the largest warship built in any sort of realistic timeframe.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:43 am

    There are things a big ship can do that many small ships cannot... a fleet of a thousand corvettes is just a big a waste as a very very expensive fleet of 50 battle cruisers.

    What they need is a sensible mix of ships to serve their interests... which includes large vessels.

    They don't need to built lots of ships right now... a mix of upgrades to effective older larger ships and new smaller ships will do for now while they work out the technology and systems on the larger ships.

    A retired Kirov class ship with a fried reactor is an ideal opportunity to fix something that was not right in the first place... the Soviets never had a decent marine NPP system and when making their Kirovs they fudged the issue by combining the propulsion with a combined nuke and conventional propulsion system.

    They weren't even sure it would work so they also built the Slava class as a backup alternative.

    Now they have decent high power NPPs so ripping out the complex propulsion systems of the Kirovs and indeed the conventional system of the Kuznetsov and replacing it with a new rather more powerful NPP system would make enormous sense even just testing new arrangements for the next gen large ships and carriers.
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    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:There are things a big ship can do that many small ships cannot... a fleet of a thousand corvettes is just a big a waste as a very very expensive fleet of 50 battle cruisers.

    What they need is a sensible mix of ships to serve their interests... which includes large vessels.

    They don't need to built lots of ships right now... a mix of upgrades to effective older larger ships and new smaller ships will do for now while they work out the technology and systems on the larger ships.

    A retired Kirov class ship with a fried reactor is an ideal opportunity to fix something that was not right in the first place... the Soviets never had a decent marine NPP system and when making their Kirovs they fudged the issue by combining the propulsion with a combined nuke and conventional propulsion system.

    They weren't even sure it would work so they also built the Slava class as a backup alternative.

    Now they have decent high power NPPs so ripping out the complex propulsion systems of the Kirovs and indeed the conventional system of the Kuznetsov and replacing it with a new rather more powerful NPP system would make enormous sense even just testing new arrangements for the next gen large ships and carriers.

    Is that the plan? Are they replacing the entire powerplant? The pix I see do not indicate that type of surgery and I would not assume the reactors are fried. I know one of them has fried reactors but I don't think it is Nakimov. I thought the idea to use smaller NPP for long range cruise and oil fired super heaters for dash speed was actually pretty ingenious to contain costs for a platform that was always never meant to be more then 5 ships. Of course today they would probably use a smaller submarine NPP for cruise and gas turbines for dash. It would be an excellent solution if they wanted to build 3-4 Lieders for example. But yes a small number of large ships is useful. But in a high intensity war they are very hard to protect, and an fleet of small, but heavily armed missile ships maybe have a better chance of survival...or none. No one knows and hopefully we will not find out.
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    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:00 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the lazarev will never be upgraded then what will it be replaced with?

    I don't buy this.  The RuN wouldn't spend money dry-docking her and performing maintenance (including cleaning and repainting her hull) if a modernisation wasn't feasible.  IMHO it all depends on how well the Nahkimov rebuilt goes...

    Because lets keep nuclear fueled ship rot in our shipyard? US kept number of WW2 auxilary ships mothballed till 10 years ago, some of which had propulsion removed and reused.

    What we know is that Navy deemed Lazarev mindblowingly expencive to repair due to structural and issues with reactor it had previously.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:46 pm

    The first ship of the series has a Cracked Reactor the ship is done, it's a floating nuclear disaster right now, The Russians are not touching that thing. due to the fact they allowed it to sit in dock for all those years with that cracked reactor, it's posing a threat to organic life nearby it.

    Anyone who thinks the Ushakov will get fixed has been dropped on their heads too many times.

    ITS not going to be repaired nor is Lazarov, this issue is quite close and has been only two of the four kirov's are getting upgrades and you cannot just rip a reactor outta a warship and replace it. That shows a cross miss-understanding on how ship construction works.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 am

    No, of course you can't take the propulsion system out of a ship and replace it... that is totally impossible... I mean they fix those things in there with superglue and duct tape... there is no way they could remove an old reactor and replace it with a new one.

    Those who think the arrangement is clever... the very idea of complicating a ships design by having two completely different powerplants is interesting... a bit like having a small petrol engine in a car that is no quite powerful enough to drive at top speed on a motorway, so you add an extra electric engine in the vehicle so you run electric around the town and use a petrol engine when going fast on the motorway.

    Actually that is sensible in a car when electric engines are not powerful enough to do everything, or lack endurance to be the sole power system of the vehicle.

    The problem is that the Kirov with combined propulsion could do 30 knts but only for about 4,000 miles and then its top speed drops down to about 14 knts under nuke power only... so it would need a refuel 4,000 miles from base.

    If they had powerful enough NPPs then they could sail at 30+ knts for as long as they like.

    Their next big carrier will be all nuke propelled so any cruiser to operate with it will need to keep up or it will slow everything down...

    I am not saying a change to NPP is easy or cheap, but it is the best option and potentially means more than two Kirov class ships can be upgraded.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:05 am

    Cracked reactor housing, OMG.

    More Bellona BS. Where is the nuclear contamination? Having some radioactive water leak is not the same as spreading
    meltdown corium around.
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    Post  mnztr on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:24 am

    GarryB wrote:No, of course you can't take the propulsion system out of a ship and replace it... that is totally impossible... I mean they fix those things in there with superglue and duct tape... there is no way they could remove an old reactor and replace it with a new one.

    Those who think the arrangement is clever... the very idea of complicating a ships design by having two completely different powerplants is interesting... a bit like having a small petrol engine in a car that is no quite powerful enough to drive at top speed on a motorway, so you add an extra electric engine in the vehicle so you run electric around the town and use a petrol engine when going fast on the motorway.

    Actually that is sensible in a car when electric engines are not powerful enough to do everything, or lack endurance to be the sole power system of the vehicle.

    The problem is that the Kirov with combined propulsion could do 30 knts but only for about 4,000 miles and then its top speed drops down to about 14 knts under nuke power only... so it would need a refuel 4,000 miles from base.

    If they had powerful enough NPPs then they could sail at 30+ knts for as long as they like.

    Their next big carrier will be all nuke propelled so any cruiser to operate with it will need to keep up or it will slow everything down...

    I am not saying a change to NPP is easy or cheap, but it is the best option and potentially means more than two Kirov class ships can be upgraded.

    Have you looked at modern Naval powerplants? CODLOG, COGOG, CODOD Ford class now has Nukes and Azipods, US ships are going Hybird. It would be very rare that a ship would have to steam 4000 miles at 30 knots then slow down to 14 knots..to me that is INCREDIBLE.No non nuclear ship can do that. So you are building 5 big cruisers and you have some fully developed sub NPPs that drive it at 14knts for 20 years and you can get it to 30knt for 4000 miles for combat or you can spend a GINORMOUS sum of money to build a bigger NPP so it can travel 30kn for 25 years ... nah they made the pragmatic decision. Much lower risk, much lower cost and still an incredibly capable ship
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:25 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The first ship of the series has a Cracked Reactor the ship is done, it's a floating nuclear disaster right now, The Russians are not touching that thing. due to the fact they allowed it to sit in dock for all those years with that cracked reactor, it's posing a threat to organic life nearby it.

    Anyone who thinks the Ushakov will get fixed has been dropped on their heads too many times.

    ITS not going to be repaired nor is Lazarov, this issue is quite close and has been only two of the four kirov's are getting upgrades and you cannot just rip a reactor outta a warship and replace it. That shows a cross miss-understanding on how ship construction works.
    Cracked Reactor? What the fuck? Is this Nuclear Engineering for Dummies?

    Anyone have some actual facts about what is actually wrong with Ushakovs reactor, and what condition is has been left in throughout mothballing? There are a whole spectrum of accident severities, ranging from (eg) a breakup of a reactor fuel rod(s) and consequent fuel contamination of the primary cooling loop, to a leaking coolant system, or in the worse case, a rupture of the containment vessel. Repair complexity will depend on the specifics, and if there has been no loss of containment of the reactor internals to the ship equipment spaces, an overhaul isn't a surmountable task.

    The fact that the Ushakov has been tied up at Zvezdochka for over 30 years without any major hull preservation works suggests she is in no danger of causing a incident, so that strongly suggests the preservation works on Lazarev was not due to any concern about her nuclear integrity.

    The current condition of Ushakov and Lazarev are not known with any certainty based on public info, nor are there reliable cost estimates for their modernisation. There are a lot of claims out there (eg Lazarev will cost equal to a Yasen class), but AFAIK they not backed with anything concrete. If anyone has any reliable and informative sources, pls link.
    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:40 am

    kvs wrote:Cracked reactor housing, OMG.  

    More Bellona BS.   Where is the nuclear contamination?   Having some radioactive water leak is not the same as spreading
    meltdown corium around.  

    Bingo, give that man a fucking cigar. Bellona would be a hilarious joke if these greenie tree-shagging anti-progress mud-hut dwellers weren't serious about the crap they spew. They say Pripyat will be uninhabitable for 1,000 years, yet the background radiation level are typically <1 uS/hr, or equal to ~8.7mS/year (the average natural background level is ~3.0mS/yr).

    Consider however the following locations:

    Guarapari, Brazil: up to 175mS/year
    Ramsar, Iran: up to 250 mS/year

    8-9 mS/year in Pripyat? Pfffttt... big deal about nothing, yet Bellona will never tell you this because they are liars and hysterical twats.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:07 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The first ship of the series has a Cracked Reactor the ship is done, it's a floating nuclear disaster right now, The Russians are not touching that thing. due to the fact they allowed it to sit in dock for all those years with that cracked reactor, it's posing a threat to organic life nearby it.

    Anyone who thinks the Ushakov will get fixed has been dropped on their heads too many times.

    ITS not going to be repaired nor is Lazarov, this issue is quite close and has been only two of the four kirov's are getting upgrades and you cannot just rip a reactor outta a warship and replace it. That shows a cross miss-understanding on how ship construction works.
    Cracked Reactor?  What the fuck?  Is this Nuclear Engineering for Dummies?

    Anyone have some actual facts about what is actually wrong with Ushakovs reactor, and what condition is has been left in throughout mothballing?  There are a whole spectrum of accident severities, ranging from (eg) a breakup of a reactor fuel rod(s) and consequent fuel contamination of the primary cooling loop, to a leaking coolant system, or in the worse case, a rupture of the containment vessel.  Repair complexity will depend on the specifics, and if there has been no loss of containment of the reactor internals to the ship equipment spaces, an overhaul isn't a surmountable task.

    The fact that the Ushakov has been tied up at Zvezdochka for over 30 years without any major hull preservation works suggests she is in no danger of causing a incident, so that strongly suggests the preservation works on Lazarev was not due to any concern about her nuclear integrity.

    The current condition of Ushakov and Lazarev are not known with any certainty based on public info, nor are there reliable cost estimates for their modernisation.  There are a lot of claims out there (eg Lazarev will cost equal to a Yasen class), but AFAIK they not backed with anything concrete.  If anyone has any reliable and informative sources, pls link.

    LoL

    "Experts and representatives of scientific associations have repeatedly stated in the media that nuclear fuel unloaded from the TARKR reactor "Admiral Ushakov" poses a danger to the environmental safety of the region. In 2013, the general director of "Star" Vladimir Nikitin said that the ship "is a certain threat to Severodvinsk and its residents."

    that the ship "is a certain threat to Severodvinsk and its residents."

    go look up on how its reactor got cracked and how worried they are about the ship. The reactor is has leaked for years that ship is a contaminated mess. Oh you prefer Russia spends billions trying to get it working and it's crew dieing from radiation posioning? get real holy shit.

    The russian navy has stated very clearly the lead ship of the class will be scrapped this is not up for debate at all.


    http://bellona.org/news/nuclear-issues/radioactive-waste-and-spent-nuclear-fuel/2014-06-long-time-push-dismantle-huge-soviet-nuclear-battleship-put

    https://flot.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=166815

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1144-list.htm

    Any other idiot statements? I am tired of people here pretending they know wtf they are talking about. Cause your entire comment shows you don't. The first two ships of that series are done for, get over it. all your "they need to modernize these" posts amount to shit. The experts have spoken kid.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:39 am; edited 3 times in total
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:15 am

    GarryB wrote:No, of course you can't take the propulsion system out of a ship and replace it... that is totally impossible... I mean they fix those things in there with superglue and duct tape... there is no way they could remove an old reactor and replace it with a new one.

    Those who think the arrangement is clever... the very idea of complicating a ships design by having two completely different powerplants is interesting... a bit like having a small petrol engine in a car that is no quite powerful enough to drive at top speed on a motorway, so you add an extra electric engine in the vehicle so you run electric around the town and use a petrol engine when going fast on the motorway.

    Actually that is sensible in a car when electric engines are not powerful enough to do everything, or lack endurance to be the sole power system of the vehicle.

    The problem is that the Kirov with combined propulsion could do 30 knts but only for about 4,000 miles and then its top speed drops down to about 14 knts under nuke power only... so it would need a refuel 4,000 miles from base.

    If they had powerful enough NPPs then they could sail at 30+ knts for as long as they like.

    Their next big carrier will be all nuke propelled so any cruiser to operate with it will need to keep up or it will slow everything down...

    I am not saying a change to NPP is easy or cheap, but it is the best option and potentially means more than two Kirov class ships can be upgraded.

    I am going to say this once to you, replacing a nuclear reactor is a lot more than simply opening up the back of the vessel they would have to gut the entire thing, install so much more shit. Do you know how the reactors in the kirov are designed? I do.

    Study ship construction, study how Nuclear reactors are installed then come back here and tell me shit okay?.

    I am not going to sit here and pretend you have a goddam clue how any of that works when you don't, your opinion means nothing to me.

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