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69 posters

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 28 Empty Re: Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    Post  GarryB Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:04 pm

    I would suspect a Delta IIIs performance as an SSN would not really warrant its conversion and that they have quite a few other types of subs they could upgrade if they need more SSNs even temporarily.

    So if they are actually keeping that Delta III I wonder if they decided they needed another "India class" sub and that the conversion of the other Delta III was for a good reason and made sense to they are doing it again.

    It certainly makes sense to me that they would want more subs able to operate with mini subs and underwater drones and divers etc etc...

    Perhaps this sub has lots of life left in its reactor and it is more use as a mini sub mothership than as an SSBN...
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:25 pm

    The Pacific Fleet is in dire need for SSN/SSGN's but the Delta III can surely not be considered for attack duties. It is more likely utilized as a training submarine? The K-44 was recently refurbished so it should have a good couple of years left.

    I doubt they will rebuild her into a second Orenburg or some kind of rescue submarine though. The Orenburg and the more modern Podmoskov'e are designed for special deep sea operations with naval Spetsnaz on board. and can operate covertly for months on end. The Pr.940 Lenok/India was designed for rescue missions and normally piggy backed two brightly coloured mini subs for the job.

    I'm sure they could have used it for covert ops as well but it had very limited underwater endurance and had to come up for air ever so often, negating any sustainable covert role.

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:40 am

    I'm sure they could have used it for covert ops as well but it had very limited underwater endurance and had to come up for air ever so often, negating any sustainable covert role.

    So critical lesson that future India class types need to be nukes even if they weren't originally designed as motherships and I suspect SSBNs of the Delta family have internal volume capacity for hangars and extra stuff to be carried covertly inside the sub rather than exposed and sitting on its back.

    Some of the jobs SSNs do is just listening and intel and creeping around quietly which an SSBN could do anyway with upgraded sonar.

    I dare say an SSBN could have its SLBM launch tubes replaced with other vertical launch tube types the way the US is converting some of its subs... just as a cheaper test than trying it with Akulas, which are way too big perhaps?
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:11 am

    The K-44 would make for an excellent SSGN with a nice mixture of Tsirkon/Oniks and the new very long range 9M729 cruise missile though. Doubt it will ever happen though. I personally would have loved to see that type of conversion on the mighty Pr.941 Akula but sadly they are all gone now.  cry

    Any long range rescue submarine would have to be nuclear. The advantage of these unique rescue subs is that they can operate unhindered in any weather conditions, and a nuclear powered one would be vital for any Russian sub getting into trouble under the arctic ice.

    As far as Orenburg and Podmoskov'e - they had their missile housing removed but still utilize the huge flat surface available on their back for special underwater vessels and drones in a piggy back fashion.
    Krepost
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    Post  Krepost Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:28 am

    Amur Shipyard

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:21 am

    The Akulas are probably too expensive to run and therefore too risky as a test case for such a new type of vessel, perhaps making an experimental SSGN with an SSBN that is to be retired should have been tried 20 years ago... now there is no question the value of long range Russian cruise missiles and hypersonic anti ship or land attack weapons so there is clearly value there... it is a shame they couldn't have tested the idea a long time ago and then they would have the option of keeping an Akula class sub for the role because of its size would make it probably the best option for the role.

    The sub was huge and had plenty of recreation and social spaces including several swimming pools, an aviary, and libraries for the mental health of the crew... I would think as a platform to carry thunderbird (nuclear powered unlimited range cruise missiles) as a deterrent it would be most effective operating in very remote locations which would mean very long operational deployments to the southern oceans to attack targets from an unexpected direction would be most effective.

    Its crew size could be reduced significantly and the volume of space for missiles increased, but perhaps instead of so many swimming pools and libraries you could have a combined gym/computer lab for LAN games and exercise... so pedalling while playing counterstrike etc etc...

    They could do double service as control rooms for unmanned drones operating from the sub with VR consoles.

    With a Delta III now apparently available for testing and perhaps use as an SSGN maybe if it is a success they could also use the Delta IVs as they become available too.

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