Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

The thing is that they are not replacing 1 old for 1 new.

Sov were meant to be replace by gorshkov but now it seems Liders will replace them.

Grigorovitch were bought because Gorshkov were not coming as quickly as they wanted. But it is a pretty good ship that even indian orders in big numbers.

In terms of number, they wants 30 Gorshkovs and 12 Liders.

But now they have Gorshkov-M in their plans which no one knows what it will be.

Putin has repeatedly stated that Russia needs a blue water navy, most recently in his annual nation address in February. For Liders, time schedule was given. Construction has to start in early 2020s with commissioning in the late 2020s. Next stage is technical design. Deputy Navy commander Bursuk said that it will begin in 2019-2020 and will be finished by 2022. Every normal person would expect delays and timelines shifted right, but the project is overall progressing.

Russians and timelines never agree unfortunatly. Most of the time there is like 7 or 8 years of delays.

Isos wrote:USSR with its huge resources managed to produce only 4 kirov. When they saw how costly they were they started Slavas.

Hope for them they won't make the same mistake. If they want arsenal ships with hundreds of VLS go for sub. They don't need helicopters and air def systems.

The scope of a sub is to travel undetected, while a capital ship like a carrier or a battle cruiser have to show that is the biggest and the meaniest in the area. Also for port visits to foreign countries a sub is not the ideal ship.
And finally (but one of the more important points) I believe the more important characteristic of both Slavas and Kirovs is their multilayered air defence system. Air defence for a large area, protecting the rest of the fleet is not something that a Ohio class submarine, converted in cruise missile carrier, can provide.

Isos wrote:The thing is that they are not replacing 1 old for 1 new.

Sov were meant to be replace by gorshkov but now it seems Liders will replace them.

Grigorovitch were bought because Gorshkov were not coming as quickly as they wanted. But it is a pretty good ship that even indian orders in big numbers.

In terms of number, they wants 30 Gorshkovs and 12 Liders.

But now they have Gorshkov-M in their plans which no one knows what it will be.

Putin has repeatedly stated that Russia needs a blue water navy, most recently in his annual nation address in February. For Liders, time schedule was given. Construction has to start in early 2020s with commissioning in the late 2020s. Next stage is technical design. Deputy Navy commander Bursuk said that it will begin in 2019-2020 and will be finished by 2022. Every normal person would expect delays and timelines shifted right, but the project is overall progressing.

Russians and timelines never agree unfortunatly. Most of the time there is like 7 or 8 years of delays.

they need capital ships (leader class cruiser/destroyers) and they need also other blue water ships. Those latter could be a mix of destroyers and or frigates. The navy apparently is very happy of the first Gorshkov class frigate, so I can imagine that they will want to build at the same time both Gorshkov and Gorshkov-M. In addition the frigates and light destroyers will be build in different shipyards than those that will build the Leader class battlecruisers. The problem could only be on the availability of proper funding for the projects, but apparently there is.support from the president.

Furthermore, the difference to the soviet times is that all kind of ships will get a similar armament (slava, kirovs and sovs had all.different.weapons instead) the difference will be instead the quantity of the VLS cells.

launchers and Redut launchers (note even the 9M96 50km and 150km range missiles would be a huge improvement over the 90km range Rif, let alone a 200km range S-300 variant or 400km range S-400 variant),

Half of PtG S-300 are Rif the other half are rif-M which is naval PMU2 standard and uses 48N6E2 missiles with 250km range. You can see that the front radar is the one from ground s-300 (rif-M) and the one in the back is a big round radar for rif that you can also see on slavas.

Gorshkov could have had the rif-M too just like chinese frigate that have it. The VLS just like Redut launcher is not universal so that change nothing apart missile types being carried.

Isos wrote:

launchers and Redut launchers (note even the 9M96 50km and 150km range missiles would be a huge improvement over the 90km range Rif, let alone a 200km range S-300 variant or 400km range S-400 variant),

Half of PtG S-300 are Rif the other half are rif-M which is naval PMU2 standard and uses 48N6E2 missiles with 250km range. You can see that the front radar is the one from ground s-300 (rif-M) and the one in the back is a big round radar for rif that you can also see on slavas.

Gorshkov could have had the rif-M too just like chinese frigate that have it. The VLS just like Redut launcher is not universal so that change nothing apart missile types being carried.

They are planning to uniform the launchers in the future, so maybe the upgraded PTG could have 176 UKSK-M instead of 80 UKSK +48 Fort + 48 Fort-M as in Nakhimov (80 UKSK as replacement for the 20 Granit cells).

The S400 missiles should be not too different.in size from onyx anyway...

As discussed before, instead the redut cells in Gorshkov class are not optimized for the missile size, so they maybe plan to substitute them anyway.

From what I was able to.find online the longer range (120km) S350 missiles (9M96E2) have a diameter of 240mm, against a 519 mm diameter of.the 48N6 S400 missile, the about 430mm diameter of the kalibr and the about 700mm diameter of.the onyx.

The redut VLS cell is however not that small compared with the UKSK from what we can see in gorshkov. As Garry already posted, 4 quad packed 9m96E2 could fit inside a UKSK-m.

The only "waste" could be in vertical space (as the shorter range.missile are also shorter), unless they decide to have some of the VLS launcher shorter (as it is the case for the french VLS, that exists in different lenghts but with the same horizontal area), maybe be able to install them in other part if the ships with less vertical space available.

and/or they could maybe develop smaller redut VLS, optimized for the size of their missiles.

The only "waste" could be in vertical space (as the shorter range.missile are also shorter), unless they decide to have some of the VLS launcher shorter (as it is the case for the french VLS, that exists in different lenghts but with the same horizontal area), maybe be able to install them in other part if the ships with less vertical space available

Just keep the redut then . Because a universal VLS that is too short for most of missiles is no longer universal.

Isos wrote:

The only "waste" could be in vertical space (as the shorter range.missile are also shorter), unless they decide to have some of the VLS launcher shorter (as it is the case for the french VLS, that exists in different lenghts but with the same horizontal area), maybe be able to install them in other part if the ships with less vertical space available

Just keep the redut then . Because a universal VLS that is too short for most of missiles is no longer universal.

Then, as i was saying, they could redesign the redut to a smaller diameter, as the cell is much bigger than the missile inside it, and the "horizontal" space in the ship is not well used.

Unless these launchers are instead optimized for the size of the quad packed shorter range s350 missile, that are 125 mm in diameter (vs 240mm).

GarryB wrote:It was this thread:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t7063p425-s-300-400-500-news-russian-strategic-air-defense-3#255518

Where dino00 posted a link stating the Vityaz could carry 48 9M100s... it carries 12 9M96s... and the standard S-400 has four tubes for normal sized S-400 missiles and can carry 4 9M96 missiles per tube for a total of 16 missiles with 9M96s only, so with 9M100s it should be able to carry 64 missiles... which would look rather odd as they are much much shorter missiles...

, yeah the 40 km range 9M100 missiles are only 2.5 metres long (against the more than 5,5 metres of the 120km range 9M96E2 and the 7.5 metres of the S400 missiles. I do not know if it is true, but I have read somewhere that the 400km range 40N6 is more than 11 metres long.

Anyway i believe the russian missiles are cold launched. If so maybe they "could" be "layered", but one would have to count also the size of the cold launching system for each missile.


And finally: maybe the idea of small dedicated launchers for the 9M100 missiles is not a bad idea at all. They could be used also in smaller ships and they could replace the 128 Tor VLS cells in Peter the great and the 192 Tor cells in Kuznetov.

Since 2012, more than 80 ships and boats have entered service. We publish the list:

On April 23, 2019, at a ceremonial event in St. Petersburg on the occasion of the laying of new warships, it was reported that from 2012 to the present, more than 80 ships and boats, including three strategic missile submarines, were handed over to the armament. This statement caused interesting discussions and discussions in public circles, as many believe that this figure is too high. In this regard, it will be interesting to consider the completion of our Navy since 2012 and to see whether our fleet has really accepted more than 80 combat units.

For starters, it should be noted separately that quite often many analysts and experts in the military field, analyzing the update of our fleet, take into account only large warships and submarines, well, suppose everything that has a displacement of 1000 tons and above, justifying it by that only these units are able to solve problems in the far sea zone and pose a serious threat to the enemy. In addition, often forget about the ships and boats for special purposes. This is fundamentally wrong, since each combat unit, starting from a boat, has its own range of tasks and mission. Moreover, a ship / boat enrolled in the Navy by order of the Navy GC is considered a military unit of the Navy, it is given a combat flag - the flag of the Navy (Andreevsky) and this unit is credited to a particular base / unit. Therefore, ignoring, say, patrol / anti-sabotage or amphibious boats is a deep mistake. The following is a list of ships and boats of all projects submitted to the Russian Navy from 01/01/2012 to the present (we confine ourselves to the date 04/23/2019 - at the time of the announcement of the figures):

1). Project 955 CPSW-535 "Yury Dolgoruky" - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2012.

2). K-550 SSBN “Alexander Nevsky” of Project 955 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2013.

3). The K-551 SSBN "Vladimir Monomakh" of Project 955 was accepted into the Pacific Fleet in 2014.

4). APKR K-560 "Severodvinsk" project 885 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2013.

5). Diesel-electric submarines B-260 "Novorossiysk" project 06363 - was accepted into the BSF in 2014.

6). The diesel-electric submarines B-237 "Rostov-on-Don" project 06363 - was accepted into the BSF in 2014.

7). Diesel Substation B-262 "Old Oskol" project 06363 - was accepted into the BSF in 2015.

. Diesel-electric submarines B-265 "Krasnodar" project 06363 - adopted in the BSF in 2015.

9). The diesel-electric submarines B-268 "Veliky Novgorod" project 06363 - was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2016.

10). The diesel-electric submarines B-271 "Kolpino" project 06363 - was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2016.

11). The frigate "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" project 22350 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2018.

12). The frigate "Admiral Grigorovich" project 11356 - was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2016.

13). The frigate "Admiral Essen" project 11356 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2016.

14). The frigate "Admiral Makarov" project 11356 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2017.

15). Corvette "Boiky" project 20380 - adopted in the BF in 2013.

16). Corvette "Resistant" project 20380 - adopted in the BF in 2014.

17). Corvette "Perfect" project 20380 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2017.

18). Corvette "Loud" project 20380 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2018.

19). Rocket ship "Dagestan" project 11661K - adopted in the CFL in 2012.

20). Patrol ship "Vasily Bykov" project 22160 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

21). Small rocket ship "Grad Sviyazhsk" project 21631 - adopted in the CFL in 2013.

22). Small rocket ship "Uglich" project 21631 - adopted in the CFL in 2013.

23). Small rocket ship "Veliky Ustyug" project 21631 - adopted in the CFL in 2014.

24). Small rocket ship "Serpukhov" project 21631 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2015. Since 2016, the service carries in the BF.

25). Small Rocket Ship "Green Dol" project 21631 - adopted in the BSF in 2015. Since 2016, the service carries in the BF.

26). Small rocket ship "Vyshny Volochek" project 21631 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

27). Small rocket ship "Orekhovo-Zuyevo" project 21631 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

28). Small rocket ship "Mytishchi" project 22800 - adopted in the BF in 2018.

29). Small artillery ship "Makhachkala" project 21630 - adopted in the CFL in 2012.

30). Sea trawler "Alexander Obukhov" project 12700 - adopted in the BF in 2016.

31). Sea trawler "Ivan Antonov" project 12700 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

32). The average reconnaissance ship “Yuri Ivanov” of project 18280 was accepted into the Northern Fleet in 2014.

33). The average reconnaissance ship Ivan Khurs of project 18280 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

34). Large landing ship "Ivan Gren" project 11711 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2018.

35). The landing craft on the “Ivan Kartsov” air-cavity of the Project 21820 was accepted into the Pacific Fleet in 2014.

36). The landing craft on the air-cavity “Michman Lermontov” of the project 21820 was accepted into the Baltic Fleet in 2014.

37). The landing craft on the air-cavity “Denis Davydov” of the project 21820 - was accepted into the Baltic Fleet in 2014.

38). The landing craft on the air-cavity “Lieutenant Rimsky-Korsakov” of Project 21820 - was accepted into the BF in 2014.

39). The landing craft on the air-cavity “D-199” of project 11770 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2014.

40). The landing craft on the air cavity "№-746" (w / o) of project 11770 - was accepted into the CFL in 2013.

41). The air-cavity landing craft (tentatively No. 722) of project 11770 was accepted into the CFL in 2013.

42). Anti-sabotage boat "P-680" of project 12150A - adopted in the BF in 2013.

43). Anti-sabotage boat "P-679" of project 12150A - adopted in the BF in 2013.

44). The anti-sabotage boat P-191 "Cadet" of project 21980 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2012.

45). Anti-sabotage boat P-349 "Suvorovets" project 21980 - adopted in the BSF in 2012.

46). Anti-diversion boat P-350 "Kursant Kirovets" project 21980 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2013.

47). Anti-sabotage boat P-355 "Yunarmeets Crimea" project 21980 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2014.

48). Anti-sabotage boat P-424 "Kinel" project 21980 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2014.

49). Anti-diversion boat "P-433" project 21980 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2017.

50). Anti-diversion boat P-351 "Caspian Yunarmeets" project 21980 - adopted in the CFL in 2013.

51). Anti-sabotage boat "Yunarmeets Tatarstan" project 21980 - adopted in the CFL in 2018.

52). The anti-sabotage boat P-340 "Ynarmeets Polaria" project 21980 - was accepted into the Northern Fleet in 2016.

53). Anti-sabotage boat P-421 "Yunarmeets Belomorye" project 21980 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2016.

54). Anti-sabotage boat P-430 "Valery Fedyanin" project 21980 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2017.

55). Anti-sabotage boat P-429 "Sergey Preminin" project 21980 - adopted in the Northern Fleet in 2017.

56). Anti-diversion boat P-377 project 21980 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2013.

57). Anti-sabotage boat P-420 "Yunarmeets of Primorye" project 21980 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2014.

58). Anti-sabotage boat P-417 "Yunarmeets Kamchatka" project 21980 - adopted in the Pacific Fleet in 2014.

59). The anti-sabotage boat P-431 “Yunarmeets of Chukotka” of the project 21980 was accepted into the Pacific Fleet in 2017.

60). The anti-sabotage boat of the project 21980 (serial number 8006) was accepted into the Pacific Fleet in 2018.

61). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat "P-274" project 03160 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

62). The anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) cutter P-275 of Project 03160 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

63). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat "P-276" project 03160 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

64). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-280 "Yunarmeets Baltika" project 03160 - adopted in the BF in 2015.

65). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-281 project 03160 - adopted in the BF in 2015.

66). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-344 project 03160 - adopted in the BF in 2015.

67). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-845 project 03160 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

68). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-838 of project 03160 - was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

69). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-413 of the project 03160 - accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2017.

70). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-425 of the project 03160 - accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2017.

71). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat "P-345" project 03160 - adopted in the BF in 2015.

72). The anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat P-415 “Georgy Potekhin” of Project 03160 was accepted into the Baltic Fleet in 2017.

73). Anti-sabotage (amphibious assault) boat number 659 of project 03160 - adopted in the BF in 2018.

74). The D-308 amphibious assault boat of project 02510 was accepted into the Northern Fleet in 2018.

75). The D-2110 amphibious assault boat of project 02510 was accepted into the Northern Fleet in 2018.

76). The D-655 amphibious assault boat of project 02510 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2018.

77). The amphibious assault boat D-296 of project 02510 was accepted into the Black Sea Fleet in 2015.

78). High-speed patrol boat "RK-2173" project A-149-1 - adopted in the CFL in 2015.

79). High-speed patrol boat of the project A-149-1 - adopted in the Black Sea Fleet in 2013.

80). The high-speed patrol boat P-834 of the project IC16MII - in 2013 became part of the Black Sea Fleet.

81). The high-speed patrol boat "P-835" of the project IC16MII - in 2013 became part of the Black Sea Fleet.

As we see, in fact, since 2012, the Russian Navy has really received at least 80 new combat units into its units. It is also worth noting that, according to preliminary data, no less than 6 airborne assault boats of the Project 02800 of the “Tavr” type have already been transferred to the Russian Navy, which in turn act both independently and as a regular unit of the new patrol ships of the Project 22160. For the near future until the end of 2019, according to the Russian Defense Ministry, it is planned to transfer at least 15 combat units to the Navy. Among them, the frigate of the project 22350, the PC of the project 22160, the MRK of the project 21631 and 22800, the submarine of the project 06363, the submarine of the projects 955A and 885, the MSCP of the project 12700, the PKA of the project 03160 and 024510 and the RAN of the project 21980 of the Rook type.

GarryB wrote:

Since 2012, more than 80 ships and boats have entered service.

Nice list... wasn't there talk of 160 new ships by 2023-2025 or something?

Probably includes non combat vessels also. During that same period of the 80 fighting vessels, there have been about 100 support vessels arrive also. Another factor that confuses the situation is the difference between a ship and a boat. Half those vessels on the list mentioned would be classified as a ship, while the rest are boats suitable for harbour and inshore operations only.

Vladimir79 wrote:The first ten are related to submarines, the second 10 are actual surface combatants and the last 60 are not worth mentioning.  

Not worth mentioning? Or simply not glamorous war-fighters? Russia needs to replace her old Soviet-era boats. They were good solid designs and had plenty of life left in them at the start of the 90s, but nothing lasts forever and modern replacements are needed after the best part of 3 decades.

My take is that the mix of sub/surface combatant/support & auxiliary is fully consistent with the rebuilding of the RuN from the ground (seabed?) upwards. You can't build a new blue-water navy for global operations if you can't de-mine your harbours, protect your bases from frogmen saboteurs, patrol your maritime borders or perform recon.