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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:18 pm

    ult wrote:...Potential order for 6 frigates, supposedly 22350/22350M (my speculation), is mentioned as well.

    If this happens Russian surface fleet will officially be back in business angel

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:23 pm

    i am anxious to see 22350M russia

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    Post  Krepost Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:37 pm

    Ships that have entered service in the Russian Navy during 2021:

    Submarines
    - Knyaz Oleg (Borei Class)
    - Kazan (Yasen Class)
    - Novosibirsk (Yasen Class)
    - Magadan (Kilo Class)

    Warhips (with displacment greater than 500T)
    - Grayvoron (Buyan-M Class)
    - Georgy Kurbatov (Alexandrit class minesweeper)

    Auxiliaries (with displacement greater than 500T)
    - Vsevolod Bobrov (pr. 12320 logistics ship)
    - Vice Admiral Paromov (pr. 03182 tanker)

    Excellent year as far as submarines are concerned.
    Poor year as far as surface warfare ships are concerned. 2020 was much better.
    Some ships did not make it for 2021: Tsiklon (Karakurt class), Sergei Kotov (Bykov class) were close to make it for 2021, but have not finished the sea trials.

    2022 is expected to be a banner year:
    - 4 or 5 submarines (Suvorov, Belgorod, Krasnoyarsk, Kronshtadt and Ufa)
    - Adm. Golovko (Gorshkov class)
    - Retivy and Rezky (Steregushy class)
    - Sergei Kotov (Bykov class)
    - Grad (Buyan-M class)
    - Tsiklon and Burya (Karakurt class) perhaps also Askold and Kozelsk
    - Pyotr Ilichev and Anatoly Shlemov (Alexandrit class)
    + many auxiliaries

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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:30 am

    Suvorov only in 2023

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    Post  Krepost Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:32 am

    dino00 wrote:Suvorov only in 2023
    There are conflicting reports.
    That's why I wrote : 4 or 5

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:25 am


    Putting this here because I didn't want to start new tread

    Made by u/Phoenix_jz from Reddit

    (orange=oilers)

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 21 Esvc82lmij981

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:52 am

    What is really interesting, is the tonnage proportions divided into groups. Check that.
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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 21 Empty Another table of ships under construction for VMF.

    Post  Arrow Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:46 pm

    Interestingly, in terms of tonnage, the Russian Navy has a larger submarine fleet than the US.  And in VMF itself, it has the largest share.

    Another table of ships under construction for VMF.

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 21 Abc9201f007ed

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    Post  Hole Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:58 pm

    In other words, the USN is the largest Navy because it has to keep all those freighters, tankers and Ro/Ro ships under her flag. All the surviving shipping companies in the US use the flags of Liberia, Panama and so on which means their ships can´t be used by the military.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:25 am

    All the surviving shipping companies in the US use the flags of Liberia, Panama and so on which means their ships can´t be used by the military.

    With Americas never ending wars they would be mad to use US flagged ships because they would spend more time shipping things to wars for the US military than anything else...

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:30 pm

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 21 03-10311

    2022;
    1. K-329 Belgorod submarine will be delivered to Russian navy, no question about that..
    2. K-??? Suvorov submarine; its only launched few days ago, no chance. i dont think so beacuse one year is not enough to finish mooring trials and state trials, probably 2023.
    3. K-571 Krasnoyarsk submarine; i hope so that this submarine will be delivered to RN this year and if not this year than it will be delivered together with Arkhangelsk submarine next year. Arkhangelsk will be launched in the next few months, i am sure about that. That 885M project is my favoured class of ships and submarines in RN.
    4. ADMIRAL GOLOVKO; we will see, because its from Severnaya Werf. I dont think so and i am very very dissapointed with that shipyard.
    5. B-586 Kronshtadt submarine will be delivered to RN this year.
    6. B-587 Velikiye Luki; No chance, its not even launched.
    7. B-588 Ufa will be delivered to RN.  
    8. Mercuriy; i dont think so because its from Severnaya werf.
    8. Rezkiy; will be delivered to RN this year.

    So there is no more problems with submarines and Sevmash really rocks, but there are still problems with surface ships beacuse there is no news about ADMIRAL ISAKOV date of launch and that Severnaya werf shipyard is really disgousting. I am really sorry that Baltic shipyard is busy with construction of 22220 nuclear icebrakers, because Baltic shipyard has built 3 Talwar class for Indian navy in 4 years, from laid down ceremony to commissioning date ceremony.
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    Post  lancelot Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:56 am

    Yeah that shipyard sucks, but at least in the case of the Admiral Gorshkov class ships a lot of the delays were caused from the stop of supply of engines from Ukraine. The production of Russian engines is ongoing today but it is still at a limited production rate. The engines for the Admiral Isakov still have not been delivered AFAIK. The initial ship also had an extremely prolonged trials period because of all the new technologies in it. The radar and combat suite supposedly had loads of problems they needed to solve. They have no excuse for the extremely prolonged time they take to build the corvettes though. Even Amur figured that one out by now.

    I agree that the Baltic Shipyard would be an excellent place to build large ships be them frigates or cruisers. Yantar also is not that bad.

    I think they need to examine what is wrong with their production flow at Severnaya Verf and fix it. Because they seem to take twice as long or more than they should be.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:33 am

    Yes, but it's not all about Ukrainian engines because we can see how much faster were built and commissioned those 20380 corvettes built by Amur shipyard.
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:47 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:Yes, but it's not all about Ukrainian engines because we can see how much faster were built and commissioned those 20380 corvettes built by Amur shipyard.

    Well, you should consider two facts.
    First, Amur has not much more to do rather than 20380s, while Severna is crazy busy with several other programs, while the men&infastructure is not made of rubber.
    Second, they have started 20380s when the technology was already mastered by Severna, and took them ... 12? years to end the first one, while Severna made the very first in about half of that ...
    Now they are just making a serial product, and it shall go faster&smoother any step by now.
    Not that I am trying to defend the Severna at the expense of Amur, but some balance is nice Wink

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:08 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Podlodka77 wrote:Yes, but it's not all about Ukrainian engines because we can see how much faster were built and commissioned those 20380 corvettes built by Amur shipyard.

    Well, you should consider two facts.
    First, Amur has not much more to do rather than 20380s, while Severna is crazy busy with several other programs, while the men&infastructure is not made of rubber.
    Second, they have started 20380s when the technology was already mastered by Severna, and took them ... 12? years to end the first one, while Severna made the very first in about half of that ...
    Now they are just making a serial product, and it shall go faster&smoother any step by now.
    Not that I am trying to defend the Severna at the expense of Amur, but some balance is nice Wink

    Picture bellow is an example of good shipyard and Main building of Sevmash shipyard.
    I am sorry but you are right and you are not right.. why ?
    How many ships were laid down in Amur shipyard last year. Yes, i know that you know the answer because its 3 ships (2 corvettes 20380 and 1 20385 corvette). Severnaya Werf ? Nothing. There is no excuse for that nothing. If they did mastered production of those technologies, as you have mentioned, what the hell happened with Prvovorniy corvette and why is Strogiy not even close to mooring trials. Yes, i know that fire on Prvovorniy could be result of a sabotage or diversion against Russia but.. I could not have critics for SEVMASH, because its a beast of shipyard that leads in the entire World in submarine construction, because thay have delivered three nuclear powered submarines to the RN last year. And those are the guys that are also working on modernization  on the mighty Admiral Nakhimov. But for Severnaya Werf - sorry, i do have a lot of criticizm.
    Severnaya Werf is the biggest mistake of russian military planning and i am glad that they have lost a MONOPOLY thay had in the past and that construction of 22350 class frigates will be split with other shipyards. Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 21 Sevmas10


    Last edited by Podlodka77 on Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:18 am

    THE REAL?
    Wow.
    Now you have impressed me respekt
    The a breath .. or two welcome
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:28 am

    Yes, it was mistake and i dont have a problem with that - to admit that it was my mistake. That mistake was fixed, i think.
    I am not not here to try to impress you or anyone else but i am here because i want to write with others about russian military weapons.
    My english is not the best, i agree with you about that that, but i am trying. Maybe your english is better and i could agree with you about that, but for Severnaya Werf - NO. That was pure monopoly from one shipyard and thats over.
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:40 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:Yes, it was mistake and i dont have a problem with that - to admit that it was my mistake. That mistake was fixed, i think.
    I am not not here to try to impress you or anyone else but i am here because i want to write with others about russian military weapons.
    My english is not the best, i agree with you about that that, but i am trying. Maybe your english is better and i could agree with you about that, but for Severnaya Werf - NO. That was pure monopoly from one shipyard and thats over.

    Gee, I was told that my English is too good.
    Who will drink with me for that? welcome Laughing

    Seriously: bud, it is not the point. A point is, that a XIX century industrial facade talks nothing about the facility. When you called that "THE REAL", i found it kid of funny. No offence here.
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    Post  Krepost Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:11 am

    Equipping the Russian Navy with ice-class ships will continue
    7 January 2022

    Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation wrote:
    Taking into account the active development of the Arctic zone, ensuring the safety of the functioning of the Northern Sea Route and domestic hydrographic research of the Arctic, the most important segment of the naval shipbuilding program, which includes equipping the Russian Navy with icebreaking ships and ice-class support ships, will be among the priority development in 2022 and in the short term.

    The High Command of the Russian Navy analyzed the experience of the first years of operation in the Northern Fleet of the newest icebreaker Ilya Muromets.


    This experience has fully proved the effectiveness of the characteristics laid down in the design of the icebreaker. The crew of the multifunctional logistic support vessel "Elbrus", which has an ice class, is efficiently fulfilling its tasks. This vessel has proven its ability to efficiently resolve issues of integrated support for the Arctic group.

    Currently, the Admiralteyskie Verfi enterprise continues the construction of the Ivan Papanin universal patrol ship of the Arctic zone, and the project 21180M Yevpatiy Kolovrat icebreaker, which is being built in St. Petersburg at the Almaz Shipbuilding Company, will become part of the Russian Navy in 2022 year.


    During the design and construction of these ships, a number of domestic innovative solutions have been introduced.

    Source: https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy/news/more.htm?id=12402146@egNews
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:48 am

    How many ships were laid down in Amur shipyard last year. Yes, i know that you know the answer because its 3 ships (2 corvettes 20380 and 1 20385 corvette). Severnaya Werf ? Nothing. There is no excuse for that nothing

    Ships are laid down based on contracts and orders... they can't just lay down a few extra hulls just in case they get orders for those types of ships... not laying down ships means no contract to lay down ships and nothing more.

    Imagine the chaos if they filled the available slots with ships they thought they might be building and the orders for different ships come through...

    Laying down a ship means a concrete order and initial payment to cover steel and materials to start making the ship... without that contract nothing happens because nothing can happen... nothing is paid for...

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    Post  AZ-5 Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:03 pm

    Krepost wrote:Ships that have entered service in the Russian Navy during 2021:

    Submarines
    - Knyaz Oleg (Borei Class)
    - Kazan (Yasen Class)
    - Novosibirsk (Yasen Class)
    - Magadan (Kilo Class)

    Warhips (with displacment greater than 500T)
    - Grayvoron (Buyan-M Class)
    - Georgy Kurbatov (Alexandrit class minesweeper)

    Auxiliaries (with displacement greater than 500T)
    - Vsevolod Bobrov (pr. 12320 logistics ship)
    - Vice Admiral Paromov (pr. 03182 tanker)

    Excellent year as far as submarines are concerned.
    Poor year as far as surface warfare ships are concerned. 2020 was much better.
    Some ships did not make it for 2021: Tsiklon (Karakurt class), Sergei Kotov (Bykov class) were close to make it for 2021, but have not finished the sea trials.

    2022 is expected to be a banner year:
    - 4 or 5 submarines (Suvorov, Belgorod, Krasnoyarsk, Kronshtadt and Ufa)
    - Adm. Golovko (Gorshkov class)
    - Retivy and Rezky (Steregushy class)
    - Sergei Kotov (Bykov class)
    - Grad (Buyan-M class)
    - Tsiklon and Burya (Karakurt class) perhaps also Askold and Kozelsk
    - Pyotr Ilichev and Anatoly Shlemov (Alexandrit class)
    + many auxiliaries

    2021 number on surface fleet are rookie numbers, horrible.
    But 2022 will be very good by RuN standards.

    From what I understand Russia is playing catch-up on reserch and development gap between 1990-2010, when they ran on absolute zeroes.
    Maybe after early 2030s RuN will put its bigboy pants (with many destroyers and frigates come in). RnD fruit usually takes over 1 or 2 decades to kick in.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:33 pm

    2021 number on surface fleet are rookie numbers, horrible.
    But 2022 will be very good by RuN standards.

    From what I understand Russia is playing catch-up on reserch and development gap between 1990-2010, when they ran on absolute zeroes.
    Maybe after early 2030s RuN will put its bigboy pants (with many destroyers and frigates come in). RnD fruit usually takes over 1 or 2 decades to kick in.[/quote]


    1. Larger frigates (destroyers) and nuclear powered destroyers ; Those "bigboys" will be built in Severnaya Werf (only 22350 and 22350M) shipyard and probably in Amur shipyard. But if thay really want a larger nuclear powered destroyer than everything changes and construction of those destroyers will be handed over to the Balitc shipyard and in my opinion to Zvezda shipyard.
    2. Aircraft carriers; Sevmash and Zvezda, or Sevmash together with Baltic shipyard, because one part of the ship could be built in Sevmash and the second part of the ship could be built in the Baltic shipyard. But i think that aircraft carrier construction in the Northern part of Russia will be trusted to Sevmash, especially when construction of 955A class submarines ends. Zvezda shipyard in the russian far east is becoming larger and larger and only large military ships will be built there.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:30 am

    Podlodka77 wrote:From what I understand Russia is playing catch-up on reserch and development gap between 1990-2010, when they ran on absolute zeroes.

    IMHO I don't believe that is true. From where I sit (as a non-Russian speaker living in a Western country) it seemed that Russia reduced its military procurement and maintenance down to virtually zero, and abandoned those bases, ships, subs etc which were not considered to be part of a group of elite assets, but they allocated what funds they did have into preserving the military R&D capabilities as much as they could. Strategic weapons, missile tech, hypersonics, anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense, submarines, EW/ECM, directed energy, new generation fighter aircraft and tanks. Russia military tech in these areas is 1st class cutting edge, often with "no analogs in the world" to borrow a well-used phrase Laughing

    Russia has successfully modernised their nuclear weapons capability to where it is probably the most modern in the world, more so than the US that still relies on CW-vintage missile tech. Now that the economy has recovered and the new generation weapons & systems have been proven they are cranking up on procurement and rebuilding their conventional forces. All things considered, I think Russia has done a very good job on preserving its hard-power capabilities, and judging by the whining coming from Washington and Brussels, it looks like the Seppostani Imperium and its Euro-faggot servants know it too!! Laughing russia

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    Post  lancelot Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:35 am

    If we are talking about the surface fleet yes there was a huge lag where little development took place. Other than the Neustrashimyy-class little happened and that was a late Soviet design. I think much like what happened with the air transport fleet, they tried to rely on Ukraine for way longer than they should have. But given limited resources I think they focused on the right things. The strategic deterrent. There were just too many outstanding tasks to do all at the same time when several military industrial capabilities suddenly were outside of Russian territory.

    The fact is if we look at the US Navy the ship designs it has in service aren't particularly new either. The main issue with the Soviet designs was they were obsolete in that they weren't as multi-role capable because of lack of UVLS cells and more obsolete electronics. Plus the ships with boilers in the power plant didn't turn out to be such a great idea in hindsight and most of them have been dropped. The technology is different enough from the rest of the engines used by the military to cause substantial headaches.

    The Admiral Gorshkov class frigate is a giant leap ahead in comparison of anything they had before and is even more capable than their previous largest 10000 ton ships. It only has less anti-air cells than the missile cruisers but it can quad pack shorter range missiles in one cell and it can do simultaneous launches because it doesn't have the revolver style launchers.

    In terms of displacement the 22350 will supersede their frigates and the 22350M will supersede the destroyers. In terms of mission they are a lot more capable and the 22350M should be more capable in all aspects than the older cruisers. The Leader battlecruiser, or whatever they make in that class, I hope they do make it nuclear powered. Given available Russian nuclear power industry and existing capabilities it will be much easier to make such a ship than it would be for, say, the US. A 10000ton nuclear powered vessel would be enough to replace all previous battlecruisers and cruisers in terms of tonnage and have at least twice the capability with new systems. It should outmatch anything the US can put to sea.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:29 am

    I wrote here already that most weakest link in russian military complex is Severnaya Werf. Everyone from you here has heard about russian navy blog NAVY KORABEL and some of you have shared some links from that blog. And owner of that NAVY KORABEL (Флот открытого океана) blog has published how bad is the situation in that shipyard.

    Достаточно сказать, что корвет "Стойкий" (четвёртый заказ пр. 20380 и третий пр. 20380 мод. II) полным водоизмещением 2 350 тонн строился 7,7 года (из них на стапеле − 5,5 лет). Для сравнения: несоизмеримо более сложные РПКСН "Князь Владимир" и "Князь Олег" (первый и второй корабли пр. 955А, Dнадв около 14 700 тонн) были переданы ВМФ через 7,9 и 7,4 года после закладки.
    Вспоминается фраза, в которой объединены мнения двух людей, хорошо знакомых с Северной верфью: "Мой друг, работавший на СВ несколько десятилетий и достигший высоких должностей, сказал: "СВ можно исправить, если только ВСЁ выжечь огнемётом". Не мои слова. Я эту верфь и людей знаю 45 лет и с его словами согласен. Разве что несколько человек из огня вытащил бы. Но насчёт завода − согласен"
    Разумеется, огнемёт здесь − гипербола, но необходимость тотальной чистки предприятия несомненна. Простая замена генерального директора не даст результата − заводская "мафия" легко подомнёт его под себя. Менять ("выжигать") надо всё руководство − гендиректора, всех его замов, главного инженера, главного технолога (его-то уж точно), главного экономиста, главбуха, начальников цехов и отделов. Их места должны занять совершенно новые люди, набранные по конкурсу типа "Лидеры России" с обязательным представлением бизнес-плана по радикальному увеличению производительности верфи (сокращению срока постройки кораблей класса "фрегат" до 4-5 лет). Иначе от нового эллинга пользы будет мало.

    It is suffice to say that "Stoykiy" (fourth in a row, project 20380 and third serial corvette of project 20380 modification 2) with full hull displacement of 2350 tons was in construction for 7,7 years (5,5 years from that period in a slipyard). For a pure comparison disporportionately more complexed SSBN submarines Knyaz Vladimir and Knyaz Oleg (first and second 955A submarines, surface displacement is at 14700 tons) were handed over to the navy in 7,9 years and 7,4 years after thay were laid down.
    He wrote; I will tell you a frase in which opinions of twoo people, well known to Severnaya Werf; "My friend who is a worker on Severnaya Werf in the past few decades and which is now reached high office, he told me; Severnaya Werf is possible to correct only if someone burns it to the ground. Those are not my words. I know that shipyard and people who work there for 45 years and i agree with his words.
    Of course, fire on the ship (Prvovorniy) means that complete cleaning of shipyard is necessary. To fire only managing director will not give result, because shipyard "mafia" will easily rise again and everything will be the same. It is necessary to fire out complete leadrship of Severnaya Werf shipyard; managing director and all of his deputies, main engineer, chief technologist (especially him), head accountant, head of the slipyard. On their places should come completely new people, chosen by type competition "Liders of Russia" with obligation to present a plan for radicaly enlargement of construction in that shipyard and (shortening the deadline for frigate constuction in 4 - 5 years). As regards for new workshop that is in construction it will be of little use if leadership is not replaced.

    My opinion, unrelated to NAVY KORABEL; And yes, i dont think that Admiral Golovko will be handed over to the Russian navy in this year and Admiral Isakov will be commissioned no earlier than in 2024. In that time SEVMASH will deliver to RN no less than 6 to 7 submarines.

    owais.usmani, lancelot and Broski like this post


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