Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

eehnie wrote:

eehnie wrote:Project 20380/20385 Frigate/Corvette
Project 22350 Destroyer/Frigate
Project 20386 Frigate/Corvette
Project 23560 Cruiser/Destroyer

This notation means that while these warships receive an official designation they are in a size cathegory habitually formed by warships of other cathegory:

The Project 23560 are designed Destroyer, while they are ships over 10000 tons.
The Project 22350 are considered Frigates, while they are ships between 5000 and 10000 tons.
The Project 20380/20385 are considered Corvettes, while they are ships between 1500 and 5000 tons.
The Project 20386 are designed Corvettes, while they are ships between 1500 and 5000 tons.

The reason of this notation is that despite its official designations:

The Project 23560 are likely to replace other ships over 10000 tons => Cruisers.
The Project 22350 are likely to replace other ships between 5000 and 10000 tons => Destroyers (+ Project 1134B Cruiser)
The Project 20380/20385 are likely to replace other ships between 1500 and 5000 tons => Frigates (+ Project 61/01090 Destroyer)
The Project 20386 are likely to replace other ships between 1500 and 5000 tons => Frigates (+ Project 61/01090 Destroyer)

To note that the Project 1204 boats are very likely to be replaced by bigger warships.

..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/

Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:

..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/

From the horse's mouth:
https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

Militarov wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:

..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/

From the horse's mouth:
https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

Some people on this forum have proof that Leader is being built already, stop spreading anti-Russian propaganda please.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
"Now the deadline for laying the head "Leader" has been postponed already in 2025, which means that under the new State Program of 2018-2027, this issue will not receive significant funding. At one time there were even rumors that the "Leader" was simply deleted from the painting of GPV-2027, but then it was decided to allocate "some money to support the project."

This is nothing new, I already knew all of this.

Still poor Enhiee the guy must be int he fiddle position right now. If only I had it in me to feel an ounce of pity.

eehnie wrote:http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm

This database includes not projects of ships that reached not the construction phase. As example you will not find still in the database the Project 23000, the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina, the Project Kalina, the project Husky, the Project 22500,...

After looking about every project, I found no-one case in the database where they say a project reached the prodction phase, but is not right. My experience is that their work is right in overall terms and I found not a mistake of the importance of whicht you are accusing them of. For me the source is reliable in overall terms, unlike your word. And is one of the bests, if not the best.

If you want to dispute the source, you can try to find in the database one case more where the database says that a project reached the production phase but is not true.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Rebuttal: http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2018-.02-22/1_985_west.html?print=Y

On 12 October 2010, it was announced that the Yantar Yard at Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea had won a contract to construct three new warships for the Russian Navy. The construction of the frigates for the Russian Navy will be carried out in parallel with the construction of the same-type frigates for the Indian Navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate

Project 11356P/M (Admiral Grigorovich)
Six frigates of the Admiral Grigorovich-class were ordered [3 delivered] for the Black Sea Fleet to be built by the Yantar Yard in Kaliningrad which is also building the Talwar-class for the Indian Navy. [6 delivered, 10 planned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talwar-class_frigate]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate#Project_11356P/M_(Admiral_Grigorovich)

Tsavo Lion wrote:He could also mention "private security companies" & Russian ChVK, i.e. mercenaries-dozens reportedly died earlier E. Ukraine & in Syria recently: https://www.google.com/search?q=mercenaries&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmoYb5n8TZAhVH4mMKHdxpA5sQ_AUICygC&biw=819&bih=510

It's also ancient practice- the hired Greeks fought for Egypt & Persia, Celts for Greeks, the Swiss & Germans for other Europeans, the others for S. Africa, & in Asia & elsewhere:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_military_and_security_companies

JohninMK wrote:Lights blue touch paper.

In early 2010s the successes in Russian military buildup triggered an euphoria. It was characterized by calls to resume the production of missile-carrying trains, sea skimmers, air-cushioned ships and total upgrade of the fleet inherited from the USSR. However, it should be admitted now that the program had failed, expert Alexander Shishkin writes in the Vzglyad business newspaper.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6006-russia-s-modernization-of-soviet-era-vessels-facing-problems-part-1.html

verkhoturye51 wrote:Question for George: after Ivan Gren commission next month, can we expect decommissions of some Aligator LSTs from 1960s?

As Ivan Safronov writes in the article "Cephalopod" surfaced in Bocharov Creek , published in the newspaper Kommersant , on Wednesday, in the presence of President Vladimir Putin, military and industry representatives discussed the problems of cooperation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), because of which the deadlines execution of the state defense order. The military repeatedly raised this issue at internal meetings, but the situation remained almost unchanged. The president's intervention is designed to prevent similar problems in the implementation of the new state armament program until 2027, in which trillions of rubles are allocated for the development of the Navy.

Opening the meeting, Vladimir Putin recalled that the Navy is "the most important factor in the country's military, economic security, maintaining strategic parity" and "in general, a significant tool for ensuring our national interests." The latter included, in particular, the actions of ships and submarines that struck during the military operation in Syria strikes on positions of the militants with cruise missiles of the "Caliber" type from the waters of the Mediterranean and Caspian seas. "We will continue to equip the Navy with the latest systems of weapons, communications, reconnaissance and target designation." As before, the quality requirements, the deadlines for fulfilling the tasks of the state defense order should remain the most stringent, "the president said, recognizing" problematic issues "with both the creation of new equipment and the repair of the already delivered equipment. Then the meeting continued in a closed mode for the press:

The main topic of the meeting was the execution of the state defense order by enterprises that are part of the USC cooperation, two sources of Kommersant in the shipbuilding industry and an official close to the leadership of the Defense Ministry say. The military is concerned about the negative statistics of the failure of the terms of contracts for the supply of ships and submarines, provided timely advance and payment, one of the interlocutors of Kommersant admits.

For this reason, not only high-ranking military officers (acting Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Deputy Minister for Armaments Yuri Borisov, Navy Commander Vladimir Korolyov, etc.) were summoned to Sochi and the industry leadership (OSK President Alexei Rakhmanov and acting Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov), but the managers of the enterprises of the shipbuilding industry - Sevmash, Severnaya Verf, Zvezda and TsKB of marine engineering Rubin.

Re-equipment of the Navy was one of the priorities of the previous state program of armaments: in 2011-2020, the fleet planned to allocate about 4.7 trillion rubles, of which almost half were to go for serial purchases of new weapons and equipment. However, by early 2018, only three of the eight strategic nuclear submarines of Project 955 Borei (the standard carrier of the Bulava ICBM) and one of the seven multi-purpose submarines of Project 885 Yasen (carrier of cruise missiles) were introduced into the Navy. The situation was no better with combat surface ships: according to the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, the Navy received only four frigates and eleven corvettes (of 15 and 35 ordered accordingly) during this time. According to the interlocutor of "Kommersant" in the industry, in part the problems are objective:

In February, March and May, during the conference calls, Sergei Shoigu criticized USC enterprises, accusing them of disrupting the terms of their obligations under contracts, but, according to the Kommersant source, the situation did not improve, so the discussion reached the presidential level. Meanwhile, in the new state armament program until 2027 (about 4 trillion rubles in the part of the Navy) there are extremely important projects that can not be "shifted to the right" under any circumstances, the source of Kommersant in the department continues, - the construction of strategic nuclear submarines " Borey B, multi-purpose submarines of the fifth generation of the Husky type (carrier of hypersonic missiles Zirkon), non-nuclear submarines Kalina. Under special control, according to "Kommersant", there are projects of underwater drones such as "Cephalopod" and "Status-6"

According to the expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Konstantin Makienko, USC has a number of old problems, which it is unlikely to solve in the existing model of the industry management. But you can try to focus on projects that are key to the country's defense capability (strategic and multi-purpose nuclear submarines) or are already launched into the series, the expert believes.