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    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update

    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:59 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Project 20380/20385 Frigate/Corvette
    Project 22350 Destroyer/Frigate
    Project 20386 Frigate/Corvette
    Project 23560 Cruiser/Destroyer

    This notation means that while these warships receive an official designation they are in a size cathegory habitually formed by warships of other cathegory:

    The Project 23560 are designed Destroyer, while they are ships over 10000 tons.
    The Project 22350 are considered Frigates, while they are ships between 5000 and 10000 tons.
    The Project 20380/20385 are considered Corvettes, while they are ships between 1500 and 5000 tons.
    The Project 20386 are designed Corvettes, while they are ships between 1500 and 5000 tons.

    The reason of this notation is that despite its official designations:

    The Project 23560 are likely to replace other ships over 10000 tons => Cruisers.
    The Project 22350 are likely to replace other ships between 5000 and 10000 tons => Destroyers (+ Project 1134B Cruiser)
    The Project 20380/20385 are likely to replace other ships between 1500 and 5000 tons => Frigates (+ Project 61/01090 Destroyer)
    The Project 20386 are likely to replace other ships between 1500 and 5000 tons => Frigates (+ Project 61/01090 Destroyer)

    To note that the Project 1204 boats are very likely to be replaced by bigger warships.

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm
    Project 23560: 14000 tons => over 10000 tons
    Designed Destroyer, but of size of Cruisers. Examples of smaller Cruisers:
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_1164.htm
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_1134b.htm

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_22350.htm
    Project 22350: 5400 tons => between 5000 and 10000 tons
    Project 22350M (called super Gorshkov): weight not specified in the source.
    Considered Frigate, but of size of Destroyers. Examples of smaller Destroyers:
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_61.htm (Project 01090)
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_57bis.htm (retired today)

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_20380.htm
    Project 20380: 2100 tons => between 1500 and 5000 tons
    Project 20385: 2300 tons => between 1500 and 5000 tons
    Considered Corvettes, but of size of Frigates. Examples of smaller Frigates:
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_22160.htm
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_11661.htm

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_20386.htm
    Project 20386: 3400 tons => between 1500 and 5000 tons
    Designed Corvette, but of size of Frigates. Example of smaller Frigate:
    Considered Corvettes, but of size of Frigates. Examples of smaller Frigates:
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_22160.htm
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_11661.htm
    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_1135.htm

    To note that in the previous links the data about ship construction of the different models are in agreement with the data posted in my previous message.
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    Post  George1 Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:17 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea for the Russian Navy as of 01.01.2018

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 8 0_18087f_c8efbad8_orig
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:44 am

    PREVIEW OF CHANGES IN THE COMBAT FLEET OF THE RUSSIAN NAVY 2018-2027

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2027#216049


    Last edited by eehnie on Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 am; edited 24 times in total
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:06 am

    Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!
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    Post  Guest Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:30 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

    Some people on this forum have proof that Leader is being built already, stop spreading anti-Russian propaganda please.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:30 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Priboi (Mistralski) update:
    ..the ship is clearly intended for defence purposes to protect the extensive coastline along the Arctic Ocean, or in the Black Sea and along the chain of Kuril Islands. The ship is not designed to travel across oceans, and this is where the 6,000 mile range comes from.
    See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/01-02-2018/139906-russia_mistral-0/
    From the horse's mouth:
    https://iz.ru/703082/konstantin-bogdanov/velikii-remont
    Modernization of 2 CGNs will still take less time than building 5–6 new FFGs or 10 corvettes, which won't have NP. The Leader class is still on paper but very far from becoming tangible. Time will tell!

    Some people on this forum have proof that Leader is being built already, stop spreading anti-Russian propaganda please.

    "Now the deadline for laying the head "Leader" has been postponed already in 2025, which means that under the new State Program of 2018-2027, this issue will not receive significant funding. At one time there were even rumors that the "Leader" was simply deleted from the painting of GPV-2027, but then it was decided to allocate "some money to support the project."

    This is nothing new, I already knew all of this.

    Still poor Enhiee the guy must be in the fetal position right now. If only I had it in me to feel an ounce of pity.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:47 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    "Now the deadline for laying the head "Leader" has been postponed already in 2025, which means that under the new State Program of 2018-2027, this issue will not receive significant funding. At one time there were even rumors that the "Leader" was simply deleted from the painting of GPV-2027, but then it was decided to allocate "some money to support the project."

    This is nothing new, I already knew all of this.

    Still poor Enhiee the guy must be int he fiddle position right now. If only I had it in me to feel an ounce of pity.


    Well IMHO this is just logical : first access denial - via MRKs or subs + later  aviation (new GUZR + Kh50) ,then thinking about representing Russian flag on far and away oceans. Helicopter carriers IMHO will mostly have ASW function long  Northern Route.
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:41 pm

    http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm

    This database includes not projects of ships that reached not the construction phase. As example you will not find still in the database the Project 23000, the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina, the Project Kalina, the project Husky, the Project 22500,...

    After looking about every project, I found no-one case in the database where they say a project reached the prodction phase, but is not right. My experience is that their work is right in overall terms and I found not a mistake of the importance of whicht you are accusing them of. For me the source is reliable in overall terms, unlike your word. And is one of the bests, if not the best.

    If you want to dispute the source, you can try to find in the database one case more where the database says that a project reached the production phase but is not true.



    Last edited by eehnie on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Guest Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:33 am

    eehnie wrote:http://russianships.info/eng/warships/project_23560.htm

    This database includes not projects of ships that reached not the construction phase. As example you will not find still in the database the Project 23000, the Project Priboi, the Project Lavina, the Project Kalina, the project Husky, the Project 22500,...

    After looking about every project, I found no-one case in the database where they say a project reached the prodction phase, but is not right. My experience is that their work is right in overall terms and I found not a mistake of the importance of whicht you are accusing them of. For me the source is reliable in overall terms, unlike your word. And is one of the bests, if not the best.

    If you want to dispute the source, you can try to find in the database one case more where the database says that a project reached the production phase but is not true.

    Drop dead.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:46 am

    The ship's composition of the Russian Navy (combat ships of 1-2 rank, NK - from 2,000 tons full) on 01-02.02.2018

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 8 0_182aa4_73e46d32_orig

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 8 0_182aa3_36a9430b_orig

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/182204.html
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:27 am

    Some1 wrote that "the Baltic & Black Seas r lagoons" & therefore won't need big fleets. I don't agree. They both support deployments to the Med. Sea & occasionally to the Indian Ocean.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-baltic-fleet-will-get-new-missile-corvette-and-bombers-2017-5
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-defence-baltic-sweden/russia-beefs-up-baltic-fleet-amid-nato-tensions-reports-idUSKCN12Q1HB
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet#Additions_of_ships_to_the_Fleet

    Between the 2 seas, the internal waterways r not deep for most of them & that's why 5 SSKs so far went around Europe to its new base in the BSF: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-261_%C2%AB%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Deep_Water_System_of_European_Russia
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-237_%C2%AB%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%83%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-262_%C2%AB%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-265_%C2%AB%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%C2%BB#%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D0%B0
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91-268_%C2%AB%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%C2%BB#%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B1%D1%8B

    The Belomorkanal is also too small for the NF to reinforce the Baltic Fleet w/o going around Scandinavia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sea%E2%80%93Baltic_Canal

    So, they both need bigger fleets for sustainability & flexibility; otherwise, the N. & Pac. Fleets will have to plug the gaps in the Med.& Red Seas & the Indian Ocean, like the CG Varyag did off Syria!

    https://pulaski.pl/en/russian-anti-access-area-denial-a2ad-capabilities-implications-for-nato/
    Rebuttal: http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2018-.02-22/1_985_west.html?print=Y
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    Post  Kimppis Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:37 am

    Tsavo Lion, you link a lot of Western MSM BS about Russia and China for some reason, but this one is really good:

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Rebuttal: http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2018-.02-22/1_985_west.html?print=Y

    Terms like A2/AD and hybrid warfare are indeed basically meaningless and "pseudo-scientific" concepts that are pure propaganda, "Gerasimov Doctrine" doesn't actually exist, etc. The author is on point. Although funnily enough he also criticizes the Color Revolution concept, which is very popular among Russophiles/anti-Americans: "At the same time, the followers of this concept, as a rule, diligently ignore the fact that no external influence will lead to a revolution if there are no internal prerequisites for it."

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:59 am

    He could also mention "private security companies" & Russian ChVK, i.e. mercenaries-dozens reportedly died earlier E. Ukraine & in Syria recently: https://www.google.com/search?q=mercenaries&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmoYb5n8TZAhVH4mMKHdxpA5sQ_AUICygC&biw=819&bih=510

    It's also ancient practice- the hired Greeks fought for Egypt & Persia, Celts for Greeks, the Swiss & Germans for other Europeans, the others for S. Africa, & in Asia & elsewhere:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_military_and_security_companies
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:15 am

    India to buy four upgraded Krivak III frigates for $3B
    http://www.janes.com/article/78204/india-to-buy-four-upgraded-krivak-iii-frigates-for-usd3-billion

    I'm sure they plan, as before, to build some more of their own as well!-
    On 12 October 2010, it was announced that the Yantar Yard at Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea had won a contract to construct three new warships for the Russian Navy. The construction of the frigates for the Russian Navy will be carried out in parallel with the construction of the same-type frigates for the Indian Navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate

    Project 11356P/M (Admiral Grigorovich)
    Six frigates of the Admiral Grigorovich-class were ordered [3 delivered] for the Black Sea Fleet to be built by the Yantar Yard in Kaliningrad which is also building the Talwar-class for the Indian Navy. [6 delivered, 10 planned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talwar-class_frigate]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivak-class_frigate#Project_11356P/M_(Admiral_Grigorovich)

    Will any more of them be need in the RuN after the remaining 3 r delivered to the BSF?
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:52 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:He could also mention "private security companies" & Russian ChVK, i.e. mercenaries-dozens reportedly died earlier E. Ukraine & in Syria recently: https://www.google.com/search?q=mercenaries&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmoYb5n8TZAhVH4mMKHdxpA5sQ_AUICygC&biw=819&bih=510

    It's also ancient practice- the hired Greeks fought for Egypt & Persia, Celts for Greeks, the Swiss & Germans for other Europeans, the others for S. Africa, & in Asia & elsewhere:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#Private_military_and_security_companies

    Please this shit is form France24, Business insider and Ukro-reich ! especially "died in Ukraine" . But never any proofs presented... BTW Academia has security guards or contractors never mercenaries. Interesting isnt it?
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    Post  George1 Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:18 am

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea for the Russian Navy as of 01.03.2018

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 8 0_1868fd_7f3e0d1a_orig

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/184140.html
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:40 pm

    Lights blue touch paper.

    In early 2010s the successes in Russian military buildup triggered an euphoria. It was characterized by calls to resume the production of missile-carrying trains, sea skimmers, air-cushioned ships and total upgrade of the fleet inherited from the USSR. However, it should be admitted now that the program had failed, expert Alexander Shishkin writes in the Vzglyad business newspaper.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6006-russia-s-modernization-of-soviet-era-vessels-facing-problems-part-1.html
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    Post  George1 Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:22 am

    Report from PJSC Shipyard "Severnaya Verf" (Under construction ships)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3113976.html

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:46 am

    JohninMK wrote:Lights blue touch paper.

    In early 2010s the successes in Russian military buildup triggered an euphoria. It was characterized by calls to resume the production of missile-carrying trains, sea skimmers, air-cushioned ships and total upgrade of the fleet inherited from the USSR. However, it should be admitted now that the program had failed, expert Alexander Shishkin writes in the Vzglyad business newspaper.

    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6006-russia-s-modernization-of-soviet-era-vessels-facing-problems-part-1.html

    Well Vzglyad is more like "bloggers digest" - no own news just digested and commented from other sources. End ths expert is AFAIK just a nave engineer nobody who runs any industrial activity.
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    Post  George1 Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:28 pm

    Construction of warships of the ocean and far sea for the Russian Navy as of 04/01/2018

    Information was used from reports of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, information agencies, press services of shipyard enterprises; from factory newspapers; from websites, blogs and forums on naval, military and military-industrial topics.

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Statistics Update - Page 8 0_18a7d9_92d3cc83_orig

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/186716.html
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    Post  verkhoturye51 Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:12 am

    Question for George: after Ivan Gren commision next month, can we expect decomissions of some Aligator LSTs from 1960s?
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    Post  George1 Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:59 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Question for George: after Ivan Gren commission next month, can we expect decommissions of some Aligator LSTs from 1960s?

    i have no idea.
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    Post  Austin Thu May 17, 2018 1:39 pm

    Vladimir Putin discussed the problems of rearmament of the Navy

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3201649.html

    As Ivan Safronov writes in the article "Cephalopod" surfaced in Bocharov Creek , published in the newspaper Kommersant , on Wednesday, in the presence of President Vladimir Putin, military and industry representatives discussed the problems of cooperation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), because of which the deadlines execution of the state defense order. The military repeatedly raised this issue at internal meetings, but the situation remained almost unchanged. The president's intervention is designed to prevent similar problems in the implementation of the new state armament program until 2027, in which trillions of rubles are allocated for the development of the Navy.

    Opening the meeting, Vladimir Putin recalled that the Navy is "the most important factor in the country's military, economic security, maintaining strategic parity" and "in general, a significant tool for ensuring our national interests." The latter included, in particular, the actions of ships and submarines that struck during the military operation in Syria strikes on positions of the militants with cruise missiles of the "Caliber" type from the waters of the Mediterranean and Caspian seas. "We will continue to equip the Navy with the latest systems of weapons, communications, reconnaissance and target designation." As before, the quality requirements, the deadlines for fulfilling the tasks of the state defense order should remain the most stringent, "the president said, recognizing" problematic issues "with both the creation of new equipment and the repair of the already delivered equipment. Then the meeting continued in a closed mode for the press:

    The main topic of the meeting was the execution of the state defense order by enterprises that are part of the USC cooperation, two sources of Kommersant in the shipbuilding industry and an official close to the leadership of the Defense Ministry say. The military is concerned about the negative statistics of the failure of the terms of contracts for the supply of ships and submarines, provided timely advance and payment, one of the interlocutors of Kommersant admits.

    For this reason, not only high-ranking military officers (acting Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Deputy Minister for Armaments Yuri Borisov, Navy Commander Vladimir Korolyov, etc.) were summoned to Sochi and the industry leadership (OSK President Alexei Rakhmanov and acting Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov), but the managers of the enterprises of the shipbuilding industry - Sevmash, Severnaya Verf, Zvezda and TsKB of marine engineering Rubin.

    Re-equipment of the Navy was one of the priorities of the previous state program of armaments: in 2011-2020, the fleet planned to allocate about 4.7 trillion rubles, of which almost half were to go for serial purchases of new weapons and equipment. However, by early 2018, only three of the eight strategic nuclear submarines of Project 955 Borei (the standard carrier of the Bulava ICBM) and one of the seven multi-purpose submarines of Project 885 Yasen (carrier of cruise missiles) were introduced into the Navy. The situation was no better with combat surface ships: according to the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, the Navy received only four frigates and eleven corvettes (of 15 and 35 ordered accordingly) during this time. According to the interlocutor of "Kommersant" in the industry, in part the problems are objective:

    In February, March and May, during the conference calls, Sergei Shoigu criticized USC enterprises, accusing them of disrupting the terms of their obligations under contracts, but, according to the Kommersant source, the situation did not improve, so the discussion reached the presidential level. Meanwhile, in the new state armament program until 2027 (about 4 trillion rubles in the part of the Navy) there are extremely important projects that can not be "shifted to the right" under any circumstances, the source of Kommersant in the department continues, - the construction of strategic nuclear submarines " Borey B, multi-purpose submarines of the fifth generation of the Husky type (carrier of hypersonic missiles Zirkon), non-nuclear submarines Kalina. Under special control, according to "Kommersant", there are projects of underwater drones such as "Cephalopod" and "Status-6"

    According to the expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Konstantin Makienko, USC has a number of old problems, which it is unlikely to solve in the existing model of the industry management. But you can try to focus on projects that are key to the country's defense capability (strategic and multi-purpose nuclear submarines) or are already launched into the series, the expert believes.
    LMFS
    LMFS

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    Post  LMFS Thu May 17, 2018 6:12 pm

    I have read that the productivity of Russian shipyards is 20% of international mean value... from the values in Austin's post and notwithstanding the issue with the engines, the situation seems a complete disaster...

    Any idea, why all those problems? Have they already solved them for GPV 2027?
    Hole
    Hole

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    Post  Hole Thu May 17, 2018 7:45 pm

    A lot has to do with politics and the Navy not knowing what it wants.

    You start building a ship and than someone comes and tells you: "Stop using this or that component, because it´s foreign" or part of your suppliers stops delivering items because you are in Russia... Well, that´s not good for productivity.

    Then look at the Steregutschij. Series production in the first yard was accelerating, then comes the Navy and wants the ships with cruise missiles. The yard stops production, the ship is redesingned and the production starts over again. But years are lost. Same with the Gren. First the Navy wants six vessels, mostly for coastal and littoral areas. But it should be well armed. Than they change their mind, reduce the weapon load, just to save a few bucks. Then Medveded/Serdukhov come along and decide, that the Mistral will be bought. The production is stopped for years.

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