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    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

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    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion - Page 10 Empty Re: Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:26 pm

    So the people who made the food that Orville and Wilbour Wright were eating... they are the real inventers of heavier than air flight... right?
    a long war demands enormous resources; adequate logistics enables victories.
    The Germans run out of supplies as their lines were stretched in 1941, halting their advance; Ks the Mongols' ponies would have nothing to eat if the climate was less rainy during their conquests.

    Stalin approached the British and the British told them to talk to the poles. ..What evidence?
    it shows they were then more anti-Stalin than anti-Hitler. prior & post WWII history showed that the Ango-Saxons r Russia/USSR enemies; their 4 year alliance with it was a temporary. American & Btitish banks gave credits so the Nazis could build up their mil. & be well armed to defeat the Bolsheviks instead of taking over France & other states in W. Europe. But Hitler refused to dance to their tunes.

    They could offer large parts of France to Spain in return for staying neutral and allowing the western allies invade occupied France from their territory.
    I doubt they would want to occupy the S. France, as this would create a future war between them. The allies benefited from Spain staying neutral more than they would benefit if she took their side. Bringing Italy was more important to the Brits & US; after the war, Franco kept the Communists out & later Spain joined NATO.

    Stalingrad wasn't an epic battle, it was a well laid trap...
    it developed into a trap; I doubt the Soviets knew German plans for 1942 in advance.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:51 am

    American & Btitish banks gave credits so the Nazis could build up their mil. & be well armed to defeat the Bolsheviks instead of taking over France & other states in W. Europe.

    So how can you claim products the west SOLD to the Soviets won the war when the west was also supporting and supplying the Germans.

    Sound more like the whole conflict was the western countries fault in the first place.

    Bringing Italy was more important to the Brits & US; after the war,

    Leaving German forces in Italy would be just more Germans they didn't have to fight, whereas fighting Germans in France would be the first step at defeating the Germans in Europe... Spain being neutral would be more vulnerable to a communist takeover than a Spain actively helping the US and UK take France from German occupation.

    it developed into a trap; I doubt the Soviets knew German plans for 1942 in advance.

    They deployed the reserves on the other side of the river from day one of the fight for Stalingrad... it was a staging and preparation area they could form troops up and send them across the river at night in boats or when frozen on foot or in vehicles.

    The only time they had problems and troops went across not fully equipped was when there was ice going down the river... can't drive over it, and too many lumps to sail through.

    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:29 pm

    For reference- the US shipped 400,000 trucks to the USSR and the USSR itself produced only 130,000. So bringing those trucks freed a lot of Soviet manpower that would need to be diverted from other branches of industry in order to produce them themselves.,

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:54 am

    The Soviets paid for those trucks... they bought them.

    When you order and pay for something you don't just make it yourself as well... that is stupid.

    Lend Lease did not arrive in useful quantities before the Germans were stopped at the gates of Moscow in December 41, and arrived in dribs and drabs... they way you would expect if the supplier wanted both sides to keep fighting and killing each other so they could eventually attack both parties when they are at their weakest and dictate terms...

    Supplying a truck for use is not the same as actually using against a well equipped and well trained enemy.

    For reference almost 30 million Soviets were killed... I am sure they will happily reproduce all the things they received and return them to the west if the west would give them back the 30 million people they lost.

    There would be more respect for the west if D Day had happened in 1942 and actually had a consequence for the war by actually ending the war earlier, but the western allies preferred to leave all the fighting to the Soviets instead.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:00 am

    D Day in 1942 is impossible. The one in 1944 required ENORMOUS preparations in terms of ground, air and naval buildup that are not completed in 1942. It also required air supremacy which would be impossible if the bomber raids had not diverted significant numbers of Bf-109s and Fw-190s to not be available in France
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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:08 am

    Plus they made a d-day like operation, tailored to 1942 potential.
    Operation Torch should ring a bell.
    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:27 pm

    Torch was against 120k mostly Vichy French troops with poor morale. The WAllies had 100k troops in Torch

    In 1944-5 they still faced 1.5m troops on the Western Front.

    If even all D-Day troops are available in 1942 then what?
    - no Italian campaign so 300k German troops can be recalled back to France
    - Wehrmacht is not exhausted on the Eastern Front by additional 2 years of war... another 500-800k troops can be recalled to France. At worst the Fall Blau is stopped
    - Luftwaffe is not exhausted on the Eastern Front and against bomber raids... so expect 1000+ fighters and another 1000+ bombers to be rebased to France
    - without air supremacy there ASW warfare is difficult... U-Boots are rebased and used against allied ships and likely with much success

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