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    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:26 pm

    So the people who made the food that Orville and Wilbour Wright were eating... they are the real inventers of heavier than air flight... right?
    a long war demands enormous resources; adequate logistics enables victories.
    The Germans run out of supplies as their lines were stretched in 1941, halting their advance; Ks the Mongols' ponies would have nothing to eat if the climate was less rainy during their conquests.

    Stalin approached the British and the British told them to talk to the poles. ..What evidence?
    it shows they were then more anti-Stalin than anti-Hitler. prior & post WWII history showed that the Ango-Saxons r Russia/USSR enemies; their 4 year alliance with it was a temporary. American & Btitish banks gave credits so the Nazis could build up their mil. & be well armed to defeat the Bolsheviks instead of taking over France & other states in W. Europe. But Hitler refused to dance to their tunes.

    They could offer large parts of France to Spain in return for staying neutral and allowing the western allies invade occupied France from their territory.
    I doubt they would want to occupy the S. France, as this would create a future war between them. The allies benefited from Spain staying neutral more than they would benefit if she took their side. Bringing Italy was more important to the Brits & US; after the war, Franco kept the Communists out & later Spain joined NATO.

    Stalingrad wasn't an epic battle, it was a well laid trap...
    it developed into a trap; I doubt the Soviets knew German plans for 1942 in advance.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:51 am

    American & Btitish banks gave credits so the Nazis could build up their mil. & be well armed to defeat the Bolsheviks instead of taking over France & other states in W. Europe.

    So how can you claim products the west SOLD to the Soviets won the war when the west was also supporting and supplying the Germans.

    Sound more like the whole conflict was the western countries fault in the first place.

    Bringing Italy was more important to the Brits & US; after the war,

    Leaving German forces in Italy would be just more Germans they didn't have to fight, whereas fighting Germans in France would be the first step at defeating the Germans in Europe... Spain being neutral would be more vulnerable to a communist takeover than a Spain actively helping the US and UK take France from German occupation.

    it developed into a trap; I doubt the Soviets knew German plans for 1942 in advance.

    They deployed the reserves on the other side of the river from day one of the fight for Stalingrad... it was a staging and preparation area they could form troops up and send them across the river at night in boats or when frozen on foot or in vehicles.

    The only time they had problems and troops went across not fully equipped was when there was ice going down the river... can't drive over it, and too many lumps to sail through.

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:29 pm

    For reference- the US shipped 400,000 trucks to the USSR and the USSR itself produced only 130,000. So bringing those trucks freed a lot of Soviet manpower that would need to be diverted from other branches of industry in order to produce them themselves.,

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:54 am

    The Soviets paid for those trucks... they bought them.

    When you order and pay for something you don't just make it yourself as well... that is stupid.

    Lend Lease did not arrive in useful quantities before the Germans were stopped at the gates of Moscow in December 41, and arrived in dribs and drabs... they way you would expect if the supplier wanted both sides to keep fighting and killing each other so they could eventually attack both parties when they are at their weakest and dictate terms...

    Supplying a truck for use is not the same as actually using against a well equipped and well trained enemy.

    For reference almost 30 million Soviets were killed... I am sure they will happily reproduce all the things they received and return them to the west if the west would give them back the 30 million people they lost.

    There would be more respect for the west if D Day had happened in 1942 and actually had a consequence for the war by actually ending the war earlier, but the western allies preferred to leave all the fighting to the Soviets instead.

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:00 am

    D Day in 1942 is impossible. The one in 1944 required ENORMOUS preparations in terms of ground, air and naval buildup that are not completed in 1942. It also required air supremacy which would be impossible if the bomber raids had not diverted significant numbers of Bf-109s and Fw-190s to not be available in France
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:08 am

    Plus they made a d-day like operation, tailored to 1942 potential.
    Operation Torch should ring a bell.
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:27 pm

    Torch was against 120k mostly Vichy French troops with poor morale. The WAllies had 100k troops in Torch

    In 1944-5 they still faced 1.5m troops on the Western Front.

    If even all D-Day troops are available in 1942 then what?
    - no Italian campaign so 300k German troops can be recalled back to France
    - Wehrmacht is not exhausted on the Eastern Front by additional 2 years of war... another 500-800k troops can be recalled to France. At worst the Fall Blau is stopped
    - Luftwaffe is not exhausted on the Eastern Front and against bomber raids... so expect 1000+ fighters and another 1000+ bombers to be rebased to France
    - without air supremacy there ASW warfare is difficult... U-Boots are rebased and used against allied ships and likely with much success
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:09 pm

    More data & opinion here: https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-against-nazi-germany/30599486.html
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:11 am

    In 1944-5 they still faced 1.5m troops on the Western Front.

    If even all D-Day troops are available in 1942 then what?
    - no Italian campaign so 300k German troops can be recalled back to France
    - Wehrmacht is not exhausted on the Eastern Front by additional 2 years of war... another 500-800k troops can be recalled to France. At worst the Fall Blau is stopped
    - Luftwaffe is not exhausted on the Eastern Front and against bomber raids... so expect 1000+ fighters and another 1000+ bombers to be rebased to France
    - without air supremacy there ASW warfare is difficult... U-Boots are rebased and used against allied ships and likely with much success

    The truth is it wasn't a priority in 1942... the wests enemies... the Nazis... were fighting the wests enemies... the commies... so why risk western soldiers and western resources to help one enemy fighting another enemy?

    There is only two reasons to help an enemy in that situation... the first if they were about to collapse... or even worse surrender and join forces with your other enemy, and the second was if they eventually overcame the other enemy and were marching westward at a pace where they would take all the spoils and leave all of europe in their hands and out of western hands.

    Obviously the latter is what transpired.

    If they were real allies they would have relieved the Russian position as soon as they could but they were more interested in protecting their colonies in africa and the middle east and protecting their own oil supply.

    More data & opinion here

    Radio Free Europe:Radio Liberty?

    No point in reading that propaganda.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:17 pm

    Noy sure is this has been posted already but I wanted to park it here.

    This is a talk by the US Major at the sharp end of the documentation on what the US sent to Russia. He kept a diary! May be not what you have heard or read to date Smile

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:08 am

    Paranoid much?

    If all the former Soviet republics and eastern european states are still run by communists wearing different hats how do so many join HATO so easily?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:16 am

    What battle of the Great Patriotic War did the Red Army soldiers win on Lend-Lease tanks https://russian7.ru/post/kakuyu-bitvu-velikoy-otechestvennoy-kr/

    As the saying goes, further comments r not needed here.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:29 pm



    Lend lease to the UK form the US was three times larger than to the USSR.

    The Reich did not expend 80% of its men and equipment fighting the British. Where did all this lend-lease
    go?

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:43 am

    As the saying goes, further comments r not needed here.

    Those vehicles were paid for... all the US did was produce things and sell them to the Soviets and you think that means they won the war?

    The US did more to create WWII than they get credit for, the fact that they also profited from it should be the point of all this but they have no shame and their pride demands they think they won.

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    Post  Belisarius Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:34 am

    Another thing that Andrei's video shows well is that even before the Soviet Union received even a third of the land-lease they had already won the battle of moscow, kursk and stalingrad causing more than 2.5 million casualties in the nazis.
    Lend-Lease - World War II: Discussion - Page 10 Screen12

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:37 am

    The key about that graph is that it is cumulative. So it rises steeper than the actual supply. The over-hyped lend-lease only became
    a thing in 1943. By then the Nazis were in retreat on the eastern front.

    Martyanov is right that lend-lease should be appreciated and contributed to the war against Hitler, but the US and other wankers who
    use it as a bludgeon to claim that the US really won the war on the eastern front need to be pissed and shat on. They are worse
    than scum.

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