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    Dassault Rafale Thread

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    Post  Guest Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:18 am

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:Of the entire fleet of the French Rafale fighter aircraft are serviceable only 51% of the aircraft

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2471854.html

    We already determined here few months ago that criteria they use to calculate availability is literally insane. If we used same "6h to be launched into combat" availability criteria for other airforces, we would have something like 20% rate for majority of countries.

    The first hours of a war are the most important. Israeli won the 6 days war with a single Attack on Egypt in about 2-3 hours.

    It is important, however its very hard if not impossible to keep whole airforce in combat ready status, especially not for such short time deployments like 6h. So having 50% of aircraft combat ready in 6h timespan is very, very impressive.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:17 am

    I am sure if it was a Russian aircraft you would belittle them because half their fleet don't meet their own criteria no matter how hard it is...
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    Post  Guest Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am sure if it was a Russian aircraft you would belittle them because half their fleet don't meet their own criteria no matter how hard it is...

    Right... Suspect
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    Post  George1 Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:38 am

    France again starts negotiations with Egypt on the sale of 12 Rafale fighters

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2963377.html

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    Post  George1 Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:48 am

    Qatar received the first Rafale fighter


    February 6, 2019 at the headquarters of the French company Dassault Aviation in Merignac near Bordeaux, an official ceremony was held to transfer the Qatar Air Force to the first of 36 ordered Dassault Rafale fighters - the Rafale DQ two-seater fighter with Qatari side number QA202 (serial number DQ2). The ceremony was attended by the President and CEO of Dassault Aviation, Eric Trappier, the Deputy Prime Minister of Qatar and the State Minister of Defense of Qatar, Khalid bin Mohamed Al-Attiyah, and the Commander-in-Chief of the Qatar Air Force, Major General Mubarak al-Hayarin.

    Dassault Rafale Thread - Page 3 6505333_original

    Dassault Rafale Thread - Page 3 6505797_original

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3524557.html
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:30 pm

    It looks really old and obsolete. More like a training jet at best.
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    Post  Isos Sat May 16, 2020 1:01 am

    Former french Rafale pilot analyzing the famous video of Rafale achueving gun and fox 2 kills. He is new on youtube and makes videis in french and english. Worth to take a look but don't expect him to say anything secret.

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    Post  George1 Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:34 pm

    Negotiations on the possibility of supplying Indonesia with French Rafale fighters


    On the air of the French TV channel BFM Business in the news issue "Grand Journal de l'Eco" on December 3, 2020, the Minister of the Armed Forces of France, Florence Parley, announced the possibility of concluding a contract for the supply of 36 Dassault Rafale fighters to Indonesia, and that negotiations on this issue "made significant progress" ... Fighter Dassault Rafale B of the French Air Force during a demonstration in Indonesia. Jakarta, 21.08.2018 (c) Garry Andrew Lotulung / kompas.com

    “If this order comes true, it will be of great help for the 500 French companies involved in the Rafale program. When we mention Rafale, we are thinking about the Dassault group of companies, and there are many companies involved in the production chain, 7000 people will be employed in the execution of the order within 18 months, which is a lot, ”said French Minister of the Armed Forces Flores Parly.

    Florence Parley recalled that the French Ministry of Armed Forces has used considerable resources "to support enterprises, often very small", directly or indirectly cooperating under the Rafale program, "in total, this is 200 thousand jobs at 4 thousand enterprises," the minister said.

    Thus, the minister partially confirmed the information published a little earlier on the website of the newspaper "La Tribune", according to which Indonesia would like to urgently conclude an agreement for the purchase of 48 Rafale fighters.

    In addition, Paris and Jakarta intend to sign an agreement on cooperation in the field of defense, the website "La Tribune" reports, citing several confirming sources. The Indonesians "would like to act very quickly and reach an agreement before the end of the year, while the French negotiators would like to spend some more time working out the terms of the agreement in detail."

    The issue was raised at the end of October 2020 during a visit to Paris by Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, who, according to La Tribune, confirmed Jakarta's “keen interest” in buying Rafale aircraft.

    Negotiations with Greece, Finland and Switzerland

    Florence Parley added that “we are negotiating with several countries at once” on the sale of Rafale aircraft: “Greece, Finland, Switzerland are countries wishing to renew their military aircraft, and therefore tenders for the purchase of aircraft have already been announced there which, quite possibly, will be implemented next year ”.

    Rafale Aircraft Manufacturing Challenge


    France needs to produce Rafale aircraft for the French Air Force to replace 12 used aircraft sold to Greece from the French Air Force, that is, in parallel with the manufacture of aircraft to order for Indonesia, another 12 Rafale aircraft must be manufactured for domestic needs.

    “We have to think through different scenarios to meet the needs of our customers, not forgetting to take into account the needs of the French Air Force,” explained the minister.

    It is clear from the minister's words that the French armed forces will remain a priority customer. “My responsibility and my duty, of course, is to provide the French Air Force with everything it needs, so that we will adhere to the obligations provided by the law on military programs, namely, the purchase of more Rafale for the Air Force in the next few years, - Florence Parley emphasized.

    For its part, the Dassault group did not comment on this information.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4203501.html
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:30 pm

    Modular bombs "Hammer" were tested for the new standard of the French fighter "Rafale"
    Today, 09: 39

    Fighter "Rafale", successfully promoted by the French defense industry in the world market, awaits a new system that will be able to increase its striking power and competitiveness.

    Safran, which is developing a new military product, announced the successful completion of the first two drop tests from the Rafale aircraft of the 1000 kg AASM Hammer modular system, designed to strike ground targets from the air.

    Now it is planned to move to the stage of test combat use, which is expected in 2021. After that, the new product will pass the state qualification before being put into service. When all procedures are completed (approximately in 2022), a new fighter standard will be put into operation under the designation Rafale F4.

    The tonne system is the "weighted" version of the AASM Hammer family. The line of these products is designed to unify the use of various types of ammunition from the French Rafale or Mirage-2000 aircraft.

    AASM (literally - "highly maneuverable modular extended-range ammunition") is a container in which, in a tonne configuration, both standard American Mark 84 bombs and BLU109 penetrating bombs are placed. With the development of the 1000-kg modification of the "Hammer", French fighters will be adapted to use a more powerful weapons.

    At the same time, AASM modules can be equipped with equipment responsible for various types of guidance - laser and infrared heads, inertial or satellite systems. For the first time, AASM underwent "baptism of fire" in Libya in 2011.

    https://en.topwar.ru/178147-ispytany-modulnye-bomby-molot-dlja-novogo-standarta-francuzskogo-istrebitelja-rafal.html

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    Post  George1 Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:01 pm

    As told the Swiss newspaper "Le Matin" , according to information circulating in government circles of Switzerland, the French Dassault Rafale aircraft wins the tender for a new fighter for the Swiss Air Force. The official decision on the choice of the type of aircraft in this tender will be made by the Federal Council (Swiss government) this month - presumably on June 23rd.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4330099.html

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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:59 am

    Indonesia signs agreement of intent to acquire 36 French Dassault Rafale fighters

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4331915.html
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    Post  Lurk83 Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:42 pm

    George1 wrote:Indonesia signs agreement of intent to acquire 36 French Dassault Rafale fighters

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4331915.html

    Doesn't surprise me. Indonesia is far too poor to deal with CAATSA to acquire SU35
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:01 pm


    Did the price of Rafales drop recently?

    I remember them being quite pricey years ago
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:15 am

    quite a long ways to go from intent to actually acquiring the aircraft still. Let's wait and see if the French are perfectly fine with being paid in barter - or not.
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    Post  SaneBomber Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:38 pm

    Indonesia is a rising economic and regional power, already in the G20 and in the top 10 GDP PPP, it has a lot of ground to cover as a spread out archipelago, wedged between China and Australia. They were supposed to go in with Korea on their fighter program, not sure where that's at now.

    The Swiss contract would be huge, because their purchasing process is much more objective that those of your typical NATO/EU vassal country like Belgium or Denmark, who are stuck with the F35 for political reasons.
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    Dassault Rafale Thread - Page 3 Empty Does the F-35 Finally Have a Challenger for Best Fighter?

    Post  Finty Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:27 pm

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/does-f-35-finally-have-challenger-best-fighter-192230

    Does the F-35 Finally Have a Challenger for Best Fighter?
    France’s F4 Dassault Rafale is Europe's challenge to the F-35

    by Sebastien Roblin

    Here's What You Need to Remember: The forthcoming Rafale F4s will progressively replace France’s fourth-generation Mirage 2000s, over 110 of which remain in service today. French periodical Le Figaro claims that older Rafales will also eventually be updated to the F4 standard.

    In January 2019, French Defense Minister Florence Parly announced France would commit $2.3 billion to develop an F4 generation of the Dassault Rafale twin-engine multirole fighter. This would include production in 2022–2024 of the last twenty-eight of the original order of 180 Rafales, followed by the purchase of an additional thirty Rafales F4.2s between 2027–2030, for a total of 210. Since 2008, France has deployed land- and carrier-based Rafales into combat in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Mali, and Syria.

    Despite incorporating stealth technology, the Rafale (“Burst of Fire” or “Gust of Wind”), is not a true stealth aircraft like the F-35. True, the French jet’s wings and fuselage are primarily composed of radar-absorbent composite materials and lightweight titanium. Other stealthy design features include S-shaped engine inlets, serrated edges, and a channel exhaust cooling scheme designed to reduce infrared signature.

    These give the Rafale an estimated Radar Cross Section (RCS) of slightly above one square meters—comparable to peers like the Super Hornet and Typhoon, but orders of magnitude greater than that of the F-35 jet. Land-based Rafales are currently priced at $76–$82 million per plane, only modestly cheaper than the F-35A which benefits from vastly greater economy of scale, though the Rafale’s operating costs are likely lower.

    Paris particularly prizes maintaining an independent domestic arms industry and has never seriously considered purchasing F-35s. Instead, France is working with Germany and other partners to develop a sixth-generation Future Combat Air System stealth jet to enter service in 2035-2040. Until then, France is doubling down on the 4.5-generation Rafale by integrating additional F-35-style avionics and improving its network-centric warfare capabilities.


    The Rafale is much more agile than the F-35, with a superior climb rate, sustained turn performance, and ability to super-cruise (maintain supersonic flight without using fuel-gulping afterburners) at Mach 1.4 while carrying weapons. The Rafale’s all-moving canards—a second set of small wings near the nose—give the Rafale excellent lift and low-altitude speed and performance, as you can see in this majestic airshow display.

    However, compared to larger fourth-generation twin-engine jets like the Su-35 or F-15, the Rafale can’t fly quite as high (service-ceiling of 50,000 instead of 60,000 ft), and has a lower maximum speed (only Mach 1.8 compared to Mach 2-2.5).

    The Rafale’s agility won’t help as much if it is engaged at long distances by enemy surface-to-air missiles and stealth jets. To compensate, the Rafale boasts an advanced Spectra electronic warfare system that supposedly can reduce the Rafale’s cross-section several times over—it is rumored by reflecting back signals using ‘active canceling.’ Spectra also incorporates powerful jammers and flare and chaff dispensers provides 360-degree early-warning, and can even assist Rafale pilots in targeting weapons to retaliate against attackers.

    Spectra’s capabilities reportedly allowed Rafales to deploy on raids over Libyan airspace in 2011 before air defense missiles had been knocked out.


    Other key capabilities include sensor fusion of the Rafale’s RBE-2AA Active Electronically Scanned Array multi-mode radar, which can track numerous targets over 124 miles away, with its discrete OSF infrared-search and track system, which has an unusually long range of sixty-two miles. Rafale pilots also benefit from uncluttered instrumentation combining voice commands with flat-panel touch screens.

    The multirole jet carries a punchy thirty-millimeter revolver cannon and up to twenty-one thousand pounds of weapons on fourteen hardpoints, making it a versatile air-to-ground platform. Because Paris requires expeditionary capability in Africa, the Rafale can refuel in flight and carry up to five fuel tanks for very long transits and can be operated from relatively unprepared airfields, unlike most high-performance jets.


    What’s new in the Rafale F4?
    Dassault produces three basic types of Rafales: the single-seat Rafale-C, the two-seat Rafale-B (the additional weapon systems officer being preferred for strike and reconnaissance missions) and the carrier-based single-seat Rafale-M, which has an arrestor hook, reinforced landing gear and buddy-refueling pod capability. Each type has evolved in common generations designated F1, F2, F3, and F3R.


    The F4 generation introduces additional network-centric warfare capabilities and data-logistics similar to those on the F-35 Lightning, enabling Rafales on patrol to build a more accurate picture of the battlespace by pooling their sensors over a secure network, and even exchange data using new satellite communications antenna. The pilots also benefit from improved helmet-mounted displays.

    The Spectra defensive system will receive more powerful jammers and new threat libraries tailored to meet the improving capabilities of potential adversaries. Furthermore, Dassault seeks to use “Big Data” technology to develop a predictive maintenance system reminiscent of the F-35’s troubled ALIS system to cost-efficiently implement preventative repairs.


    Other systems to be tweaked include the air-to-ground mode of the RBE-2AA radar, the M88 turbofan’s digital computers, and a new AI-system for its reconnaissance and targeting pod allowing it to rapidly analyze and present information to the pilot. Rafale-Ms will also receive a new automated carrier landing system.

    New weapons set for integration most notably an improved model of the Mica short-to-medium range air-to-air missile, which has a range of forty-nine miles. The Mica can be launched without initially being locked and guided remotely by a data link on the fighter before engaging either an infrared or AESA radar seeker to close in for the kill, using a vector-thrust motor to pull off tight maneuvers. Because both the Rafale and the Mica missile can employ passive infrared targeting without using an indiscrete active radar for guidance, the MICA can be launched with little warning for the target.


    The Mica-NG model will incorporate new infrared-matrix sensors for better performance versus stealth fighters, carry additional propellant for longer range, and integrate internal sensors to reduce maintenance costs. Its dual pulse motor will allow it to accelerate just prior to detonation for a greater probability of achieving a kill.

    For longer-range engagements, newer Rafales F3Rs and F4s can launch British Meteor missiles which can sustain Mach 4 speeds.


    Another weapon set for integration is heavier 2,200-pound variants of the AASM HAMMER, a guidance kit similar to the U.S. JDAM. Previously, the Rafale could only carry 485-pound variants of the weapon which can use either GPS-, laser- or -infrared guidance to deliver precise strikes. Unlike the JDAM, the HAMMER also incorporates a rocket motor, allowing it to hit targets up to thirty-seven miles away when released at high altitude.

    The Rafale will also be modified to integrate future upgrades of the French SCALP-EG stealthy subsonic cruise missile and the supersonic ASMP-A cruise missile which carries a 300-kiloton-yield nuclear warhead. Reportedly France may develop a hypersonic AS4NG variant increasing range from 300 miles to over 660 miles.


    Currently, the French Armée de l’Aire has three Rafale multi-role squadrons and two nuclear-strike squadrons based in Mont-de-Marsan (south-western France), Saint-Dizier (north-eastern France) and al-Dhafra in the UAE. There is also an operational conversion unit and testing and evaluation squadron.

    The French Navy has three Rafale-M squadrons which rotate onboard France’s nuclear-powered carrier Charles de Gaulle. In 2018, a squadron of Rafale-Ms proved their capability to operate from the U.S. carrier George H. W. Bush.

    The forthcoming Rafale F4s will progressively replace France’s fourth-generation Mirage 2000s, over 110 of which remain in service today. French periodical Le Figaro claims that older Rafales will also eventually be updated to the F4 standard.

    Abroad, Dassault is finishing the delivery of orders from Egypt (twenty-four), Qatar (thirty-six), and India (thirty-six). All three countries may order additional Rafales, though the price of its initial Rafale order has caused a political scandal in New Delhi.

    As France must wait nearly two decades before a European stealth fighter can enter service, its armed forces are betting that in the interim adding networked sensors and weapons to the Rafale’s superior kinematic performance and powerful electronic warfare systems will keep the agile jet relevant in an era of proliferating stealth aircraft and long-range surface-to-air missiles.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:47 am

    The Swiss contract would be huge, because their purchasing process is much more objective that those of your typical NATO/EU vassal country like Belgium or Denmark, who are stuck with the F35 for political reasons.

    True, but only in the sense that they could buy Rafales or Typhoons or F-35s or Gripens... not that they could buy anything like Su-35s MiG-35s or new Chinese stealth fighters etc etc... ie absolutely anything... of course there are not many countries in that position of course....

    Did the price of Rafales drop recently?

    I remember them being quite pricey years ago

    More expensive than the F-35... but likely also a working aircraft unlike the F-35.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:14 am

    [quote]
    GarryB wrote:
    The Swiss contract would be huge, because their purchasing process is much more objective that those of your typical NATO/EU vassal country like Belgium or Denmark, who are stuck with the F35 for political reasons.

    True, but only in the sense that they could buy Rafales or Typhoons or F-35s or Gripens... not that they could buy anything like Su-35s MiG-35s or new Chinese stealth fighters etc etc... ie absolutely anything... of course there are not many countries in that position of course....

    Not really true. Switzerland enjoys some degree of independence yet is still part of west (or US vassal if you prefer).
    BTW didnt F35 already win the competition? ok the parliament needs to ratify and I guess there will be referendum about it - so not yet sure Smile


    Im not sure if J39 NG wouldn't be the best choice for Switzerland tbh. Of course after Su-75 Smile

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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The Swiss contract would be huge, because their purchasing process is much more objective that those of your typical NATO/EU vassal country like Belgium or Denmark, who are stuck with the F35 for political reasons.

    True, but only in the sense that they could buy Rafales or Typhoons or F-35s or Gripens... not that they could buy anything like Su-35s MiG-35s or new Chinese stealth fighters etc etc... ie absolutely anything... of course there are not many countries in that position of course....

    Not really true. Switzerland enjoys some degree of independence yet is still part of west (or US vassal if you prefer).
    BTW didnt F35 already win the competition?  ok the parliament needs to ratify and I guess there will be referendum about it - so not yet sure Smile


    Im not sure if J39 NG wouldn't be the best choice for Switzerland tbh. Of course after Su-75 Smile

    US millionaires and billionaires have their money in Switzerland.

    France has some border workers that enjoy swiss salaries.

    The fight is lost for the Rafale before it starts.

    French can hope that the referendum stops the procurement of the f-35 but that won't make them buy Rafale. And Swiss are already using US weaponery which would need to be changed for french one so unlikely to happen. Rafale is already too much expensive it will be even more if they need weapons and infrastructure for them.

    Most likely is f-35 being rejected and they go for a super super hornet. I think they call it silent hornet.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:53 am

    Well, not really.
    Some nasty stuff around F-35 is sourced from the Swiss tender.
    If I remember correctly, the part about reduced afterburner usage, due to structural damages of a tail part of a plane.
    Their gov commission doesn't care if that hurts Murican feelings.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:51 am

    Most likely is f-35 being rejected and they go for a super super hornet. I think they call it silent hornet.

    Pretty sure it was called the Subpar Hornet....

    Funny that all these decades of trillions of dollars spent on custom designed Stealth aircraft and it turns out they could make the F-15 and F-16 into stealth aircraft too... all they had to do was lower the bar far enough for them to qualify... and of course double the prices of everything.

    Their gov commission doesn't care if that hurts Murican feelings.

    You would think more euros would show a bit of spine, but it is a fading thing... so used to unconditional surrenders it seems.
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    Post  Isos Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:52 am

    ALAMO wrote:Well, not really.
    Some nasty stuff around F-35 is sourced from the Swiss tender.
    If I remember correctly, the part about reduced afterburner usage, due to structural damages of a tail part of a plane.
    Their gov commission doesn't care if that hurts Murican feelings.

    They care about money. Swiss aircraft are unlikely to see action anyway. It's all about business and money. US softpower is much stronger than french one there.

    Switzerland is dependant on the global banking system which is controled by the US.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:00 pm

    Isos wrote:France has some border workers that enjoy swiss salaries.

    The fight is lost for the Rafale before it starts.
    heh the last French success was Mirage III.  I wonder if the new Germano-French fighter will have a chance in the new call for fighter 2050 or 2060 Smile



    Isos wrote: Most likely is f-35 being rejected and they go for a super super hornet. I think they call it silent hornet.

    Looks like cheaper and not the worst option. Without politics, take-off/range , price, size it still looks like  J39 NG could have a chance. But there is no arms sale without politics Smile
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    Post  Finty Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:59 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote: it starts.
    heh the last French success was Mirage III.  I wonder if the new Germano-French fighter will have a chance in the new call for fighter 2050 or 2060 Smile


    [/quote]

    You watch, Germany and France will fall out and the Jerries will join the UK et al on Tempest. Well, that's what I want to see at least!
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:45 am

    Or it could be like the tank project that went tits up and everybody ended up making their own tanks...

    Sponsored content

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