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66 posters

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    PapaDragon
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    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 Empty Re: Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:58 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:I wonder where they plan to get Ka-29 helicopters for all these ships.
    The Soviet Navy only received 46 Ka-29s...

    Necessity is the mother of invention

    There definitely aren't enough K-29s but there can be plenty of these and while it may not be ideal they can move troops around while Ka-52s do the shooting:

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 1124

    List of upgrades and other details:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8575p25-maks-2021-air-show-photos-and-news#332680
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:28 pm

    The so-called Minoga helicopter from Kamov should be the chosen one. Should be ready quite soon I hope.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:39 am

    The two new helicopter carriers are not going to be in the water till 2028 at the very earliest, so they probably have time to make some decisions as they are planning a new replacement helicopter called the Minoga to replace the Ka-27 family and it is supposed to include a pusher propeller for higher flight speeds.

    A rear ramp door would also be useful to add exits and entry points which is always good for troop helicopters, but also to allow light vehicles to be carried too.

    From what I can tell the new 40K ton carriers can carry 25 helicopters plus drones, but that would include a mix of attack/recon helicopters (Ka-52s) and troop transport helicopters (Ka-29 types) but presumably also a couple of AEW Ka-31 to watch for air and ground targets to support the landing operations (note the Russian Army bought Ka-31s for battlefield management for ground operations so it works over land too).

    I would also think they will have smaller aircraft like Ka-26 and other types as well would be useful including search and rescue and also anti sub.

    They are going to need Ka-29 types for the Kuznetsov and the two new 40K ton ships, but also half a dozen for each Ivan Gren ships too.

    Such troop transport helicopters would also be valuable on corvettes and frigates tasked with anti piracy missions to board ships on the open sea... so having quite a few of them is going to be rather important.

    Was hoping they would mention something about their new high speed helicopters at MAKS but have not seen anything yet.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:14 am


    Minoga will not have a pusher propeller, it's a conventional helicopter (same layout as Ka-226 only enlarged)

    New high speed helicopter is a different project for VKS/VDV and it will have intermeshing rotors and pusher propeller


    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:22 am

    GarryB wrote:The two new helicopter carriers are not going to be in the water till 2028 at the very earliest, so they probably have time to make some decisions as they are planning a new replacement helicopter called the Minoga to replace the Ka-27 family and it is supposed to include a pusher propeller for higher flight speeds.

    A rear ramp door would also be useful to add exits and entry points which is always good for troop helicopters, but also to allow light vehicles to be carried too.

    From what I can tell the new 40K ton carriers can carry 25 helicopters plus drones, but that would include a mix of attack/recon helicopters (Ka-52s) and troop transport helicopters (Ka-29 types) but presumably also a couple of AEW Ka-31 to watch for air and ground targets to support the landing operations (note the Russian Army bought Ka-31s for battlefield management for ground operations so it works over land too).

    I would also think they will have smaller aircraft like Ka-26 and other types as well would be useful including search and rescue and also anti sub.

    They are going to need Ka-29 types for the Kuznetsov and the two new 40K ton ships, but also half a dozen for each Ivan Gren ships too.

    Such troop transport helicopters would also be valuable on corvettes and frigates tasked with anti piracy missions to board ships on the open sea... so having quite a few of them is going to be rather important.

    Was hoping they would mention something about their new high speed helicopters at MAKS but have not seen anything yet.

    I do not know who spoke of 40,000 tons as an American LHD, the project presented to Putin in Crimea was a little larger than the Mistral of about 25-27 thousand tons with six points for helicopters and 20 aircraft maximum (typically 8 ka-52, 8 Ka-29 and maybe 4 UAVs)

    The fact that the first ship is in 2026-2027 or delayed, will be due to the engines, it is not clear that they can make a power plant for a ship of this size (before finishing the ship's hull, of course), so that there could be delays.

    But that doesn't change the helicopter issue.
    The Ka-29s were purchased to serve on the 3 Ivan Rogov class ships and the 4 Kiev, therefore 46 were more than enough.
    Now dozens of ships have hangars for helicopters (planned 30 or more 22380/22385 20-24 pr. 22350, 10-12 Lider, and an undetermined number of 11711 / 1711M in addition to the LHDs), and there will only be a maximum: 50 Ka -27M, 30 Ka-27PS and 40 Ka-29 for all.

    I do not see a new helicopter operating before the beginning of the 2030s, in the plan until 2028 it is not defined anything except to start development in any time in this decade, so the process may not end before the mid of 2030´s.

    to put Ka-31 on any ship they will have to buy more, the only two there are will surely go to the Kuznestov again when he rejoins the navy
    the Russian Army ??, the only sales of Ka-31 helicopters were; India bought 14, nine received in 2001-2004 and the rest in 2012. Russia bought two a little after India and before China, which received 9 between 2010-2011
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:28 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:I wonder where they plan to get Ka-29 helicopters for all these ships.
    The Soviet Navy only received 46 Ka-29s...

    Necessity is the mother of invention

    There definitely aren't enough K-29s but there can be plenty of these and while it may not be ideal they can move troops around while Ka-52s do the shooting:

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 1124

    List of upgrades and other details:

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8575p25-maks-2021-air-show-photos-and-news#332680

    this helicopter is basically a flying taxi, it's too small to be useful to the Navy
    Russia bought about 40 in the time of the infamous General Zelin ten years ago and since everything he bought is rotting under the sun for years, the VKS does not seem to use them for training and there are only a few who fly occasionally at the Chkalovsky airfield like " air taxi "in Moscow

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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am

    AMCXXL wrote:

    to put Ka-31 on any ship they will have to buy more, the only two there are will surely go to the Kuznestov again when he rejoins the navy
    the Russian Army ??, the only sales of Ka-31 helicopters were; India bought 14, nine received in 2001-2004 and the rest in 2012. Russia bought two a little after India and before China, which received 9 between 2010-2011

    There are at least two prototypes for the Russian Army (ka-31SV) - not sure if they adopted it, but the Army did test them extensively?

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 Ka-31s10
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:02 am

    Mir wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:

    to put Ka-31 on any ship they will have to buy more, the only two there are will surely go to the Kuznestov again when he rejoins the navy
    the Russian Army ??, the only sales of Ka-31 helicopters were; India bought 14, nine received in 2001-2004 and the rest in 2012. Russia bought two a little after India and before China, which received 9 between 2010-2011

    There are at least two prototypes for the Russian Army (ka-31SV) - not sure if they adopted it, but the Army did test them extensively?

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 Ka-31s10

    The prototypes are used by the manufacturing company during the research and development period of a project.
    It does not even sound like a copy will be delivered for state tests. Aircraft with three digits are prototypes with few exceptions

    The Ka-31 was abandoned during the collapse of Russia in the 90s and only resurfaced after the Indian contract (would it be easy to assume that probably with the benefits the Ministry of Defense bought the only two copies for the Navy ??)
    The Ministry of Defense only buys and operates finished series products.

    In Soviet times two prototypes 031 and 032 were built. After serving the order to India, two more prototypes were made, the 231 and the 232, I believe that somewhere they were called Ka-35, but all this is conjecture.

    This type of helicopter from time to time is brought out to air shows or used to test some type of equipment, but beyond that, the Ministry of Defense does not have any plans on this, at least as far as it is known and I doubt a lot. to continue around here, Shoigu has already said that you have to focus on new projects.
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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:32 am

    AMCXXL wrote:

    The prototypes are used by the manufacturing company during the research and development period of the project.
    It does not even sound like a copy will be delivered for state tests. Aircraft with three digits are prototypes
    The Ka-31 was abandoned during the collapse of Russia in the 90s and only resurfaced after the Indian contract (would it be easy to assume that probably with the benefits the Ministry of Defense bought the only two copies for the Navy ??)
    The Ministry of Defense only buys and operates finished series products.

    In Soviet times two prototypes 021 and 032 were built. After serving the order to India, two more prototypes were made, the 231 and the 232, I believe that somewhere they were called Ka-35, but all this is conjecture.
    This type of helicopter from time to time is brought out to air shows or used to test some type of equipment, but beyond that, the Ministry of Defense does not have any plans on this, at least as far as it is known and I doubt a lot. to continue around here, Shoigu has already said that you have to focus on new projects.

    That goes WITHOUT saying that Kamov developed the prototypes - for the MOD. I didn't think I would have had to explain that bit! dunno
    I also mentioned that the 2 prototypes were extensively tested by the MOD - AND that I am not sure if it was adopted dunno
    Here is a picture of the helicopter undergoing state trails.

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 K31sv_10
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:25 pm

    Mir wrote:

    That goes WITHOUT saying that Kamov developed the prototypes - for the MOD. I didn't think I would have had to explain that bit! dunno
    I also mentioned that the 2 prototypes were extensively tested by the MOD - AND that I am not sure if it was adopted dunno  
    Here is a picture of the helicopter undergoing state trails.

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 K31sv_10

    The helicopter was operated by Kamov, it never entered the air force as no prototype ever does.
    GLITS is the STATE test center, where all aircraft are tested, regardless of who operates them
    Companies can develop prototypes at the request of any client, be it the MoD, another government ministry, or a foreign government.


    That does not mean that the aircraft will be accepted
    If the project is satisfactory, then several more machines are manufactured for the state tests (pre-series) and the Ministry of Defense tests them with its own Air Force pilots for several more years.
    In addition, they are not only tested by the Air Force, but also in the LII Gromov of the Ministry of Industry at the Zhukovsky aerodrome, which is the one that has to give the acceptance of the product according to the specifications provided



    https://www.arms-expo.ru/news/vooruzhenie-i-voennaya-tekhnika/vertolet-radiolokatsionnoy-razvedki-ka-31sv-ka-35-v-sirii/

    The second prototype (tail number "232") of the Russian Ka-31SV helicopter (Ka-35, product 23D2, Gorkovchanin development center) from the 1K130 ground target radar reconnaissance helicopter complex, in Syria / Photo: Ibraheem_Hasan / Hammer Head / twitter. com / KitadicaCool

    The development of the Ka-31SV (Ka-35, 23D2) helicopter has been carried out by JSC Kamov for a very long time on the topic of the Gorkovchanin design and development work in the interests of the Aerospace Forces and the Russian Ground Forces as a further development of the Ka-31 marine shipborne helicopter. The 23D2 helicopter is designed for ground-based radar reconnaissance, and, unlike the Ka-31, is equipped with the L381 radio-technical reconnaissance complex for ground targets developed by the Federal Research and Production Center Nizhny Novgorod Scientific Research Institute of Radio Engineering (NIIRT), the basis of the complex is the 15TS100 radar. 10. Helicopter 23D2 with this system is part of the helicopter complex for radar reconnaissance of ground targets (VKRNTs) 1K130 (ROC "1K130", conducted by the same NIIRT)
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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:25 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:

    The helicopter was operated by Kamov, it never entered the air force as no prototype ever does.

    Now sunny can you please show me were and when did I ever say this helicopter entered service with the Army let alone any of the prototypes?

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    Post  Mir Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:56 pm

    This is what a MOD spokesperson had to say about the Ka-31SV >> the one spotted in Syria

    https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/159529/

    The Ka-31SV radar reconnaissance helicopter, created in the Kamov Design Bureau for the Aerospace Forces and the Ground Forces.

    In 2004, the first prototype appeared with the tail number "231 blue". It was built due to the conversion of the prototype Ka-31 helicopter for new radar equipment. 2 years later, a second prototype appeared with the tail number "232 blue". This time the car was completely built "from scratch".

    The factory tests were successfully completed. Then-the state ones. Moreover, even before their completion, the Ministry of Defense in 2008 signed a contract for the construction of the first batch of two rotorcraft scouts. In August 2015, the Ka-31SV was put into service as an integral part of the 1K130 Ground-based Radar Reconnaissance Helicopter Complex.

    Despite the adoption of the helicopter into service, there are still some questions about its effectiveness, reliability and some other properties that are extremely important for the military. Therefore, we decided to slow down serial production and test the car not at the test site, but in real combat conditions.

    After the helicopter was put into service, one of the systems was replaced with a more advanced one, which allows to increase the efficiency of the machine. And now we decided to test the updated prototype in practice.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:10 pm

    Minoga will not have a pusher propeller, it's a conventional helicopter (same layout as Ka-226 only enlarged)

    New high speed helicopter is a different project for VKS/VDV and it will have intermeshing rotors and pusher propeller


    You seem very sure of that... Why would the navy not want a high speed helicopter?

    I presume both Kamov and Mil are working on high speed helicopters, I would think a lot of features like improved engines and improved blade aerodynamics would also be incorporated into existing designs too.


    I do not know who spoke of 40,000 tons as an American LHD, the project presented to Putin in Crimea was a little larger than the Mistral of about 25-27 thousand tons with six points for helicopters and 20 aircraft maximum (typically 8 ka-52, 8 Ka-29 and maybe 4 UAVs)

    It was Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko...

    MOSCOW, December 30 - RIA Novosti. The displacement of the universal amphibious assault ships - helicopter carriers, being built in Kerch , will amount to 40 thousand tons, twice as much as previously reported, said Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko .

    "Under the leadership of the President of the Russian Federation, two universal amphibious assault ships of a new project with a displacement of 40 thousand tons each were laid down," he said in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

    Source:  https://ria.ru/20201230/vertoletonostsy-1591490559.html


    But that doesn't change the helicopter issue.
    The Ka-29s were purchased to serve on the 3 Ivan Rogov class ships and the 4 Kiev, therefore 46 were more than enough.
    Now dozens of ships have hangars for helicopters (planned 30 or more 22380/22385 20-24 pr. 22350, 10-12 Lider, and an undetermined number of 11711 / 1711M in addition to the LHDs), and there will only be a maximum: 50 Ka -27M, 30 Ka-27PS and 40 Ka-29 for all.

    A problem whose obvious solution would either be a replacement helicopter type, or putting older helicopters back into production.

    They were talking about putting the Mi-14 back into production... I would personally prefer they did to the Mi-38 to create the Mi-14 what they did to the Mi-8.


    I do not see a new helicopter operating before the beginning of the 2030s, in the plan until 2028 it is not defined anything except to start development in any time in this decade, so the process may not end before the mid of 2030´s.

    So the solution could be putting Ka-27s back into production and making some more.

    To be clear of course they have recently upgraded some Ka-27s to Ka-27M standard AFAIK, and another interesting point was that HATO didn't notice the Ka-27 had entered production and service for quite some time... assuming it was a just a variant of the old Ka-25.

    The difference could be improved rotor blades and engines and a remodelled airframe... it does not need a radical redesign, though as I have mentioned a rear ramp door would be useful for a troop and general transport type... and there is no tail rotor to get in the way anyway.

    to put Ka-31 on any ship they will have to buy more, the only two there are will surely go to the Kuznestov again when he rejoins the navy
    the Russian Army ??, the only sales of Ka-31 helicopters were; India bought 14, nine received in 2001-2004 and the rest in 2012. Russia bought two a little after India and before China, which received 9 between 2010-2011

    I remember reading an article that said the Army tested them for battlefield surveillance and they passed the tests and were going to be adopted...

    In a landing type situation a flying radar carrying aircraft with 360 degrees low altitude view is critical... look at experience in the Falklands where Argentine aircraft took advantage of the radar shadow of the islands to come in low over the islands and attack British ships in harbours with dumb bomb attacks...

    Obviously modern landing ships are expected to operate much further from shore with high speed landing boats, but still it is important to be aware of their local airspace.

    This type of helicopter from time to time is brought out to air shows or used to test some type of equipment, but beyond that, the Ministry of Defense does not have any plans on this, at least as far as it is known and I doubt a lot. to continue around here, Shoigu has already said that you have to focus on new projects.

    You do, but you don't walk around stark naked until they are ready... you upgrade and use older stuff till the new stuff is ready to replace it...


    After the helicopter was put into service, one of the systems was replaced with a more advanced one, which allows to increase the efficiency of the machine. And now we decided to test the updated prototype in practice.

    Which sounds like they are doing that... testing it in Syria and upgrading it to make it useful before putting the final working system into production.

    My understanding was that the Ka-31 was part of the air component of the Kuznetsov to provide AEW support for the carrier... not a true AWACS platform, but much better than nothing.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:44 pm

    Regarding the Minoga...

    Reports from 2015 state that it would be ready in 10 years... meaning 2025-2026...

    Talk of a prototype being ready in 2020 is interesting too from Sputnik news.

    In 2018 they said this:

    Boginsky did say that some findings made during the high-speed helicopter research programs are being applied to new designs for the military. “The company decided in 2015 to halt the work on the commercial helicopter because our studies indicated the price of speed was going to be too expensive for commercial operators,” he said.

    So high speed helicopters are not good in terms of commercial use, so they halted work on a commercial version of a high speed helicopter for commercial use... which suggests the Minoga will be a high speed helicopter design...

    The information about the Minoga is very confused and conflicting as shown by the thread I got most of this information from...

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5337p50-promising-naval-helicopter-minoga-lamprey

    Personally the most positive article from that thread is one I posted:

    GarryB wrote:If we look at an actual news article regarding the new design:
    MOSCOW, July 3. /TASS/. The Russian Helicopters holding has completed a detail design of the advanced ship-based helicopter for the Russian Navy, codenamed ‘Minoga,’ CEO Andrey Boginsky has told TASS.

    "Our job has been accepted," he said. "Together with the Defense Ministry, we now continue drafting a statement of work for the next stage, for the stage of experimental design."

    In May 2018, Boginsky said that the detail design of the project was scheduled for completion in the first quarter of 2019.

    As was reported earlier, work has been launched to develop a fast-speed helicopter for the Industry and Trade Ministry and the Defense Ministry of Russia. Then-Commander-in-Chief of Russia’s Aerospace Force Viktor Bondarev noted at the time that the helicopter was being developed for the Russian Defense Ministry, would enter its serial production from 2022 and would be able to develop a speed of up to 500 km/h.

    The Russian Navy is to receive several modifications of the prospective seaborne Minoga helicopter, including airborne assault one, a defense industry source told TASS on the sidelines of the Army-2016 defense forum.

    The chief designer of the Kamov design bureau (part of the Russian Helicopters), Sergei Mikheyev, earlier told TASS that an unmanned version of the rotorcraft may be created if necessary.

    So they want a 500km/h helicopter that includes replacing naval helos like the Ka-29, so new rotors and a pusher system and a more aerodynamic design, in serial production by 2022 is a bit short notice to expect brand new engines other than the new models for the land based helos (Mi-28NM)...

    source: https://tass.com/defense/1066825

    I suspect Rodion_Romanovic is right and that the current Helix helicopters will get upgrades and continue to be used while new helicopters are phased in to service.

    In fact the Army might be waiting for these new gen helicopters to enter production before they order their new Ka-35s rather than buy a helicopter that is no longer in production.

    Even more importantly the gearbox for a Kamov Helix type Coaxial helicopter is enormously expensive and complex so maybe they are waiting for electric powered designs to come ready... the gearbox/transmission for the 10-12 ton Kamovs is something like 3 to 5 tons in weight I remember reading somewhere, so that would have an enormous effect on overall weight and performance if they could replace it with electric motors for each main rotor with no need for any gearbox or transmission.... in fact it would be transformational...

    But the Ka-27 and Ka-29 and Ka-31 are all still very capable helicopters...

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:44 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:I wonder where they plan to get Ka-29 helicopters for all these ships.
    The Soviet Navy only received 46 Ka-29s...


    Hold on a second, Russia is selling Ka-32 all over the place so they are still in production

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8535-russian-civil-helicopters-news#335510

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Serbia intends to buy two Ka-32 helicopters from Russia to fight fires....


    There should be more than enough large Kamovs for everything including Navy

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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:I wonder where they plan to get Ka-29 helicopters for all these ships.
    The Soviet Navy only received 46 Ka-29s...


    Hold on a second, Russia is selling Ka-32 all over the place so they are still in production

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8535-russian-civil-helicopters-news#335510

    Russian_Patriot_ wrote:Serbia intends to buy two Ka-32 helicopters from Russia to fight fires....


    There should be more than enough large Kamovs for everything including Navy


    Ka-32 is a civil helicopter
    in the last decade probably two dozens have been sold, in my own country there are 10 sKa-32 ince 2000´s for firefighting

    however Ru Navy will not spend money in open a new production chain for Ka.-29, with the machines stored had to be enough until new naval helicopters will be available
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    Post  LMFS Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:51 pm

    @GarryB

    Industry people were arguing that there were tail blades besides the Minoga prototype that was shown some time ago. So this high speed design does not seem to be just wishful thinking... and the rest of the evidence you provide point in the same direction

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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:23 pm

    As mentioned in the article, the high speed helicopter designs are not cost effective so they must really burn fuel to get that extra speed.

    That alone means it wont have commercial implications except in extreme cases where the extra cost is worth it, so there is no reason to release information about these new programmes because for a while they will likely be military only projects.

    If they can get it moving at 500km/h then I rather think having a smaller capacity wont be much of a problem... it could use its speed to get to the target area and then revert to normal propulsion to loiter and then speed back to be replaced... ie using its speed for transit rather than operational use.
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    Post  LMFS Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:20 pm

    Speed is critical for many of the tasks a naval helicopter must fulfil, so to me it is fully justified to include that feature even at the expense of higher complexity and price. And the gained know how would be very valuable also in the international market and open good sales prospects, so it would make clearly make sense to do the effort. It is to note, that the declared Kamov philosophy is to dilute the difference between fixed and rotatory wing aircraft, so this falls squarely in their development roadmap too.

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    PapaDragon
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    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 Empty Re: Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

    Post  PapaDragon Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:30 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Possible ''on the fly'' revision of new Ivan Gren ships:
    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 25-9819185-11711-s-303-preliminary-view-01
    ...

    Looks like I was right about this one

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 23-99711
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:52 pm

    Yes it's an impressive upgrade but being a "principal" ship I would like to see much improved air defense.

    Something like this would do nicely for me >>

    Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class - Page 31 Ig-p-c10

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:31 pm

    They would then need to replace the deck gun and a coastal fire support gun would be more important for troops then AD. The top spot has an open area below it nowhere to put AA.

    That said this ship looks much better than a standard Gren, this look to be copying the Type 071. which is like three times the tonnage.

    So more delays and longer construction times, not a good idea IMO, their current landing ships are getting on in age.

    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:58 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:They would then need to replace the deck gun and a coastal fire support gun would be more important for troops then AD. The top spot has an open area below it nowhere to put AA.

    That said this ship looks much better than a standard Gren, this look to be copying the Type 071. which is like three times the tonnage.

    So more delays and longer construction times, not a good idea IMO, their current landing ships are getting on in age.


    The "deck gun" you refer to is not anywhere near intended to be a coastal fire support gun - it is the ak630 Mod2 CIWS - mainly used for air defence.
    Installing something like I suggested would require minimum modification. The Russians actually tried to copy the Bonhomme Richard, but they lost the blueprints in the fire.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:03 pm

    Ak-630 is sometimes just a manned deck gun. Some ships have it but not the radars and the FCS to use it for air defence.

    Then it become just a normla machine gun operated by a man with a basic iron scope.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:20 pm

    Yes they are also used to destroy mines at sea and can be used for delivering suppressive fire etc but as a coastal fire support gun? There are definitely other weapons at hand that will do a much better job. For example those Ka-29's sitting at the back with a couple of rocket pods would do nicely thanks!

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