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    PLA Navy and Naval Air Force

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    walle83

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    Post  walle83 Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:31 pm

    China has commissioned two more Type-052DL destroyers. The Huainan and the Suzhou.

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/more-stretched-type-052d-destroyers-join-the-pla-navy
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202103/1219894.shtml

    A total of seven Type-052D destroyers are expected to join the PLAN in 2021.

    Hull nr 121 Qiqihar during a NBC exercise.
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    Post  Backman Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:08 am

    Rough crowd in this thread. Very Happy Wasn't it the Serbs who sold F-117 technology to China ? That is probably being used on the J-20 and J-31
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    Post  GarryB Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:34 am

    Wasn't it the Serbs who sold F-117 technology to China ?

    In some cultures you pay for something you buy it and you own it... not the US of course... they had to steal that... F-35, which is probably more relevant than the F-117... not that that was worthless... but that is fine too... not like the US never does that too... Pantsir/Libya
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    Post  bren_tann Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:12 am

    walle83 wrote:China has commissioned two more Type-052DL destroyers. The Huainan and the Suzhou.

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/more-stretched-type-052d-destroyers-join-the-pla-navy
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202103/1219894.shtml

    A total of seven Type-052D destroyers are expected to join the PLAN in 2021.

    Hull nr 121 Qiqihar during a NBC exercise.
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    Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?
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    Post  walle83 Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:16 am

    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.
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    Post  walle83 Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:20 pm

    China sends a carriergroup to the Pacific. The group includes the aircraft carrier Liaoning, the type-55 destroyer Nanchang, two Type-052D destroyers, one Type-054A frigate and the Type 901 supplyship Hulunhu. Gessing some Type-93 SSNs are included as well.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220229.shtml
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    Post  bren_tann Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:14 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.

    The progress is very slow. China needs at least 40 Type 052D heavy frigates + 20 Type 055 destroyers before the end of the decade to guard the new Maritime Silk Road.
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    Post  bren_tann Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:19 pm

    walle83 wrote:China sends a carriergroup to the Pacific. The group includes the aircraft carrier Liaoning, the type-55 destroyer Nanchang, two Type-052D destroyers, one Type-054A frigate and the Type 901 supplyship Hulunhu. Gessing some Type-93 SSNs are included as well.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220229.shtml

    Type 052D is considered heavy frigate. It used to be destroyer before Type 055.
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    Post  walle83 Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:05 pm

    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.

    The progress is very slow. China needs at least 40 Type 052D heavy frigates + 20 Type 055 destroyers before the end of the decade to guard the new Maritime Silk Road.

    Its the fastest growing navy in the world, what else can you ask for.
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    Post  walle83 Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:07 pm

    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:China sends a carriergroup to the Pacific. The group includes the aircraft carrier Liaoning, the type-55 destroyer Nanchang, two Type-052D destroyers, one Type-054A frigate and the Type 901 supplyship Hulunhu. Gessing some Type-93 SSNs are included as well.

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220229.shtml

    Type 052D is considered heavy frigate. It used to be destroyer before Type 055.

    Never seen any information about that. PLAN uses the Type-054A as its main frigate.
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    Post  bren_tann Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:49 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.

    The progress is very slow. China needs at least 40 Type 052D heavy frigates + 20 Type 055 destroyers before the end of the decade to guard the new Maritime Silk Road.

    Its the fastest growing navy in the world, what else can you ask for.

    China's shipbuilding is frustratingly slow. Type 003 is still yet to be launched. It is way behind schedule.
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    Post  Backman Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:23 am

    ^.Nah that ain't true man. They are not slow at building ships. Look at India. The type 003 might just beat India's new carrier into operations the way they are going.
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    Post  Yugo90 Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:39 am

    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.

    The progress is very slow. China needs at least 40 Type 052D heavy frigates + 20 Type 055 destroyers before the end of the decade to guard the new Maritime Silk Road.

    Its the fastest growing navy in the world, what else can you ask for.

    China's shipbuilding is frustratingly slow. Type 003 is still yet to be launched. It is way behind schedule.
    i think Chinese build their ships even faster than the USA....they are making really good progress on all fields...USA just can't compete with them anymore
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    Post  walle83 Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:55 am

    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote: Can we expect all 25 Type 052D to be commissioned within the next 2 years?

    Probably. About 15 vessels are in service today, 20+ should be ready by late 2021. 5 destroyers in 2022 should not be a problem then.

    Two more Type-55 should be ready this year also.

    The progress is very slow. China needs at least 40 Type 052D heavy frigates + 20 Type 055 destroyers before the end of the decade to guard the new Maritime Silk Road.

    Its the fastest growing navy in the world, what else can you ask for.

    China's shipbuilding is frustratingly slow. Type 003 is still yet to be launched. It is way behind schedule.

    Slow?

    In 10 years they completed 25 destroyers, 30 frigates, 72 corvettes, 5 large LPDs, 2 LHAs (+ 1 in outfitting), 2 aircraft carriers, ~10 SSK, 5-6 SSN and 4 SSBN.

    Just to compare the US Navy got 11 destroyers, 19 littoral combat ships, 6 LPDs, 2 LHAs, 1 aircraft carrier and 12 SSN.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:03 am

    walle83 wrote:Slow?

    In 10 years they completed 25 destroyers, 30 frigates, 72 corvettes, 5 large LPDs, 2 LHAs (+ 1 in outfitting), 2 aircraft carriers, ~10 SSK, 5-6 SSN and 4 SSBN.

    Just to compare the US Navy got 11 destroyers, 19 littoral combat ships, 6 LPDs, 2 LHAs, 1 aircraft carrier and 12 SSN.

    It's Ultron, he isn't the most rationale person.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:07 pm

    Production speed means nothing if you don't have the planning and support behind it.

    If they are slowing down production it will be because they need to build places to base these ships, and support ships to enable these ships to operate, and also really fundamental stuff like train crews to operate these ships and develop new tactics and training regimes to get the most out of the new ships they are building.

    They have a lot of new ship designs with new equipment and weapons and sensors... what they need to do now is take it out for a spin... get some experience and work out tactics and operational doctrine.

    Once they have an idea what their new ships and subs can do, they will be in a much better position to decide what new features they want in their cruisers and new vessels.
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    Post  walle83 Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:22 am

    GarryB wrote:Production speed means nothing if you don't have the planning and support behind it.

    If they are slowing down production it will be because they need to build places to base these ships, and support ships to enable these ships to operate, and also really fundamental stuff like train crews to operate these ships and develop new tactics and training regimes to get the most out of the new ships they are building.

    They have a lot of new ship designs with new equipment and weapons and sensors... what they need to do now is take it out for a spin... get some experience and work out tactics and operational doctrine.

    Once they have an idea what their new ships and subs can do, they will be in a much better position to decide what new features they want in their cruisers and new vessels.

    They just restarted their frigate production with a further 20 vessels. So they will have about 50 Type-54A/A+ by 2030. Thats how many Oliver Hazard Perry frigates the US had but much more capable.
    I gess you can compare it with a brittish Type-23 frigate.

    The question is if they will restart the Type-052D production again after 25 vessels of they just continue with the larger Type-55.
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    Post  bren_tann Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:47 am

    walle83 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Production speed means nothing if you don't have the planning and support behind it.

    If they are slowing down production it will be because they need to build places to base these ships, and support ships to enable these ships to operate, and also really fundamental stuff like train crews to operate these ships and develop new tactics and training regimes to get the most out of the new ships they are building.

    They have a lot of new ship designs with new equipment and weapons and sensors... what they need to do now is take it out for a spin... get some experience and work out tactics and operational doctrine.

    Once they have an idea what their new ships and subs can do, they will be in a much better position to decide what new features they want in their cruisers and new vessels.

    They just restarted their frigate production with a further 20 vessels. So they will have about 50 Type-54A/A+ by 2030. Thats how many Oliver Hazard Perry frigates the US had but much more capable.
    I gess you can compare it with a brittish Type-23 frigate.

    The question is if they will restart the Type-052D production again after 25 vessels of they just continue with the larger Type-55.

    Interesting the first Type 054B is still not laid down. Maybe with the reclassification of Type 052D as heavy frigate after introduction of Type 055 destroyer Chinese navy won't invest anymore in light frigates the way the US abandoned using frigates.

    Type 054A is very similar to Admiral Grigorovich class although larger. Type 054B is very similar to Admiral Gorshkov class although larger.



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    Post  walle83 Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:43 am

    bren_tann wrote:

    Interesting the first Type 054B is still not laid down. Maybe with the reclassification of Type 052D as heavy frigate after introduction of Type 055 destroyer Chinese navy won't invest anymore in light frigates the way the US abandoned using frigates.

    Type 054A is very similar to Admiral Grigorovich class although larger. Type 054B is very similar to Admiral Gorshkov class although larger.



    Again where is the source that they reclassified the Type-52D?  The Type-055 fills the role of a cruiser more then a destroyer.

    Strange if they plan to abandon the "light" frigate and order 20 more. Or will they reclassify these as corvetts perhaps Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:33 am

    walle83 wrote:Just to compare the US Navy got 11 destroyers, 19 littoral combat ships, 6 LPDs, 2 LHAs, 1 aircraft carrier and 12 SSN.
    ur #s r all wrong: as of 2017, the USN had:
    Aircraft carrier – 11
    Amphibious assault ship – 10
    Amphibious command ship – 2
    Amphibious transport dock – 11 (1 stricken after fire, 10 now)
    Attack submarine – 55
    Ballistic missile submarine – 14
    Cruise missile submarine – 4
    Classic frigate – 1A
    Cruiser – 22
    Destroyer – 70
    Dock landing ship – 11
    Expeditionary mobile base – 2 (of 3)
    Littoral combat ship – 21
    Mine countermeasures ship – 8
    Patrol boat – 10

    China's armed forces conducted simultaneous military exercises to the west and east of Taiwan, flanking the self-governing island by air and sea. China said the display of an aircraft carrier and warplanes was a routine training exercise, but analysts say it was a warning to Taiwan and its supporter, the US. Even though China and Taiwan have been governed separately for more than seven decades, Chinese President Xi Jinping has vowed that Beijing will never allow the island to become formally independent and has refused to rule out the use of force, if necessary, to take the island back. After diplomatic talks between the US and Japan last month, US officials say the two countries are prepared to push back against Chinese threats to stability and order in Asia. CNN

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/type-055-destroyer-joins-pla-navy-carrier-group-for-first-time-in-deployment-east-of-taiwan


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correction)
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    Post  bren_tann Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:39 am

    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:

    Interesting the first Type 054B is still not laid down. Maybe with the reclassification of Type 052D as heavy frigate after introduction of Type 055 destroyer Chinese navy won't invest anymore in light frigates the way the US abandoned using frigates.

    Type 054A is very similar to Admiral Grigorovich class although larger. Type 054B is very similar to Admiral Gorshkov class although larger.



    Again where is the source that they reclassified the Type-52D?  The Type-055 fills the role of a cruiser more then a destroyer.

    Strange if they plan to abandon the "light" frigate and order 20 more. Or will they reclassify these as corvetts perhaps Rolling Eyes

    Type 055 is not cruiser. There is no cruiser in Chinese navy. Type 055 is destroyer. Type 052D is heavy frigate (formerly destroyer). Type 054A is light frigate. Type 056 is corvette.
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    Post  walle83 Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:22 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    walle83 wrote:Just to compare the US Navy got 11 destroyers, 19 littoral combat ships, 6 LPDs, 2 LHAs, 1 aircraft carrier and 12 SSN.
    ur #s r all wrong: as of 2017, the USN had:
    Aircraft carrier – 11
    Amphibious assault ship – 10 (1 stricken after fire, 9 now)
    Amphibious command ship – 2
    Amphibious transport dock – 11
    Attack submarine – 55
    Ballistic missile submarine – 14
    Cruise missile submarine – 4
    Classic frigate – 1A
    Cruiser – 22
    Destroyer – 70
    Dock landing ship – 11
    Expeditionary mobile base – 2 (of 3)
    Littoral combat ship – 21
    Mine countermeasures ship – 8
    Patrol boat – 10

    China's armed forces conducted simultaneous military exercises to the west and east of Taiwan, flanking the self-governing island by air and sea. China said the display of an aircraft carrier and warplanes was a routine training exercise, but analysts say it was a warning to Taiwan and its supporter, the US. Even though China and Taiwan have been governed separately for more than seven decades, Chinese President Xi Jinping has vowed that Beijing will never allow the island to become formally independent and has refused to rule out the use of force, if necessary, to take the island back. After diplomatic talks between the US and Japan last month, US officials say the two countries are prepared to push back against Chinese threats to stability and order in Asia. CNN

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/type-055-destroyer-joins-pla-navy-carrier-group-for-first-time-in-deployment-east-of-taiwan

    Read first, answer then. I said in the last 10 years, not what they have in total.
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    Post  walle83 Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:27 pm

    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:

    Interesting the first Type 054B is still not laid down. Maybe with the reclassification of Type 052D as heavy frigate after introduction of Type 055 destroyer Chinese navy won't invest anymore in light frigates the way the US abandoned using frigates.

    Type 054A is very similar to Admiral Grigorovich class although larger. Type 054B is very similar to Admiral Gorshkov class although larger.



    Again where is the source that they reclassified the Type-52D?  The Type-055 fills the role of a cruiser more then a destroyer.

    Strange if they plan to abandon the "light" frigate and order 20 more. Or will they reclassify these as corvetts perhaps Rolling Eyes

    Type 055 is not cruiser. There is no cruiser in Chinese navy. Type 055 is destroyer. Type 052D is heavy frigate (formerly destroyer). Type 054A is light frigate. Type 056 is corvette.

    I said that the class fulfills the role of a cruiser, not that China themself defines it as one.
    Type 55 is classifed by the US Secratery of Defence office as a Cruiser.
    https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF

    Again.....where is the source for the Type-052D?
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    Post  bren_tann Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:08 pm

    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:
    walle83 wrote:
    bren_tann wrote:

    Interesting the first Type 054B is still not laid down. Maybe with the reclassification of Type 052D as heavy frigate after introduction of Type 055 destroyer Chinese navy won't invest anymore in light frigates the way the US abandoned using frigates.

    Type 054A is very similar to Admiral Grigorovich class although larger. Type 054B is very similar to Admiral Gorshkov class although larger.



    Again where is the source that they reclassified the Type-52D?  The Type-055 fills the role of a cruiser more then a destroyer.

    Strange if they plan to abandon the "light" frigate and order 20 more. Or will they reclassify these as corvetts perhaps Rolling Eyes

    Type 055 is not cruiser. There is no cruiser in Chinese navy. Type 055 is destroyer. Type 052D is heavy frigate (formerly destroyer). Type 054A is light frigate. Type 056 is corvette.

    I said that the class fulfills the role of a cruiser, not that China themself defines it as one.
    Type 55 is classifed by the US Secratery of Defence office as a Cruiser.
    https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF

    Again.....where is the source for the Type-052D?

    Okay. But China don't care how Americans classify Type 055. They can classify it as aircraft carrier for all they care. It is destroyer classified in Chinese navy.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:59 am

    I said in the last 10 years, not what they have in total.
    sure, the PLAN is catching up at a phenomenal pace. But the USN has many mothballed ships it can reactivate & refit if need be, as well as keep its older ships & subs in commission longer. Some could be transferred to the US allies, as been done with SK, Taiwan & Philippines.

    The JMSDF & the USN de-facto small carriers r also classified as DDHs/LHAs/LHDs, & the VMF Adm K. as a TAKR; all of them fill the role of CVs.
    A modern DDG doesn't need to be as big as a CG to do the same missions cruisers been used for.
    https://www.newsweek.com/chinese-combat-spy-ships-monitor-taiwan-missile-tests-1581866



    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add text, link)

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