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    Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:03 pm

    Arrow wrote:12 Awangard system by the end 2027. Laughing Laughing This will not change anything in RWSN.

    for each Avangard USA needs 30? 35?40? minimum super duper exoatmospheric missiles to  cosider probability of interception.

    12x30=360
    12x40=480 so how many those long range interceptors dose US have now? 20-30? and in 2027? 100-200?


    russia russia russia


    Hole wrote:Payload is 4350 kg
    ou're correct for ur100n, unfortunately lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  Hole on Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:02 pm

    If it were so easy to just launch enough interceptor missiles to counter the incoming warhead. At some point the defender is runnig out of time. If you don´t hit the target with the first five to ten missiles you will be hit.

    R36M2 or R36MUTTH got a payload of 8,8 tons.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:41 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Arrow wrote:12 Awangard system by the end 2027. Laughing Laughing This will not change anything in RWSN.

    for each Avangard USA needs 30? 35?40? minimum super duper exoatmospheric missiles to  cosider probability of interception.

    12x30=360
    12x40=480 so how many those long range interceptors dose US have now? 20-30? and in 2027? 100-200?


    russia  russia  russia


    Hole wrote:Payload is 4350 kg
    ou're correct for ur100n, unfortunately lol1 lol1 lol1

    Are you still clutching on to that wikipedia article about how many KKV's to intercept Avantgarde?Rolling Eyes Are you actually basing your thesis on actual conducted and demonstrated tests SM-3's vs Avantegard?...hypothetical question, of course you haven't.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:18 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    for each Avangard USA needs 30? 35?40? minimum super duper exoatmospheric missiles to  cosider probability of interception.

    12x30=360
    12x40=480 so how many those long range interceptors dose US have now? 20-30? and in 2027? 100-200?



    The real point here of course is that even if the US can intercept an Avangard by using a disproportionate number of (currently non-existant) independently self-guided high maneuverability interceptors, the dilemma the US faces is whether to allocate those interceptors against Avangards, or simply give up and try to take down ballistic targets instead. Deterrence comes from handing your opponent an impossible mess of conflicting and contrasting threats and complicating his responses to the nth degree. The idea is to confront the US with such threats as their psychopathic elites will discard the lunatic concept of nuclear primacy and give up on any notion that a 1st strike by US against Russia can end in any way other than annihilation of the US as a functioning uni-state.

    Murican elites are block-headed idiots but hopefully they have a functional self-preservation instinct...
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:47 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Are you still clutching on to that wikipedia article about how many KKV's to intercept Avantgarde?Rolling Eyes  Are you actually basing your thesis on actual conducted and demonstrated tests SM-3's vs Avantegard?...hypothetical question, of course you haven't.

    seriously? kudos !!! you know more about Avangard then Bondaryes. WOW respekt respekt respekt damn DARPA wants to know your location respekt respekt respekt


    Bondarev told how many antimissiles are needed to intercept Sarmat

    https://ria.ru/20180321/1516954239.html

    MOSCOW, March 21 - RIA News. In order to intercept the Sarmat ICBM, at least 500 US antimissiles are needed, said Viktor Bondarev, chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, told RIA Novost

    OK now real question so how this vaporware plasma shields do work? you can use your work in field of plasma physics. thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:24 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Murican elites are block-headed idiots but hopefully they have a functional self-preservation instinct...

    but I agree with you, my examle was to arrow for consideration lol1 lol1 lol1 I mean I agree besides one sentence I've left. Im not sure about it. In country where people were buying bunkers to survive end of the world in 2012? lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  zg18 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:35 pm

    Clear picture of "Avangard" UR-100N from the last test

    Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”) - Page 8 Uz9rMny

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    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:20 pm

    You can´t see Avangard, it is under a cover at the tip of the missile.
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    Post  zg18 on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:29 pm

    Hole wrote:You can´t see Avangard, it is under a cover at the tip of the missile.

    I know that...
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:39 pm

    zg18 wrote:Clear picture of "Avangard" UR-100N from the last test

    I've seen that image before, its a photo of a Strela launching the Kondor-E militarily recon bird back in 2014.  From Zaks website:

    Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”) - Page 8 Flight_far_square_1

    Strela is a simple conversion of a late model UR-100NU, little more than a satellite mounted on an APB and protected by an enlarged shroud.  Current launch history is 3/3 successful starts from Baikonour. Avangard-carrying UR-100s are similar to Strela but look to have a differently shaped shroud.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:24 am

    Zvezda publishes the test flight route of the missile with complex Avangard


    Zvezda publishes an infographic of the test flight route of the Avangard missile. A test launch of the Avangard missile with a hypersonic winged gliding warhead Avangard was made on December 26 .


    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201812301252-55tg.htm


    on vid they writ that flight was in "dense layers of atmosphere". Looks like it was around  Karman line (Space shuttles started gliding on 122km. AFAIK not fully aerodynamic but mix of thrusters and controlling planes were used).



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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:00 am

    People are silly.

    So when someone talks about it on Twitter. People go apeshit (Americans) and state it's all Russian propaganda, nothing Russia makes works and it's all 100% fake blah blah blah. Tell them though that it's confirmed even on their end of project 4202 and it's tests, along with the fact Russia is already armed with advanced missiles like Yars and Topol-M, and they get irate. Rather funny. Cause if it was fake, why pump money into it when they even know themselves Yars and Topol-M are real?

    They (Americans) don't seem to grasp it.

    Should also mention that they think they field hundreds of these same weapons since 20 years ago.

    It really is pathetic.

    One person I follow gave this link which puts the idiots to a rest (somewhat)

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/15/russia-hypersonic-weapon-likely-ready-for-war-by-2020-us-intel.html
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:26 am

    Denial is lovely this time of year, the view of Egypt is breathtaking...

    These are people who believe in truth, justice, and the American way... they don't realise that truth and justice are supposed to be the American way... because the American way has become lies and fake news instead of truth and of course revenge instead of justice...

    Such a promising start and so badly let down... I mean on paper the western mantra looks appealing in many ways, but like communism, in practise it ends up as nothing like what it promises...

    Sad when their education about the world comes from Hollywood, which tells them all Russians are either mafia types or drunk... they never see any of the positive stuff or the progress made.

    They are not even vaguely aware that Putin is hated so much in the west because he has been so successful in getting Russia to a point where it really does not need good relations with the US to grow and develop... western actions have severed most ties and links and its economy continues to grow.

    To be honest I am glad that Henry Kissinger didn't get his way and have the US get really friendly with Russia and use Russia as a tool to encircle China... this way it is more likely that the US will be the one ending up isolated, not Russia or China, who are actually open to free trade and fair trade...

    In the next US defence budget when they ask for over 1 trillion dollars to help the US catch up with Russia and China, I am sure these patriotic Americans will ask why they need to do this when everything Russia and China make is crap... or copied...

    BTW I just read that article and it almost reads like America is safe from Russian ICBMs and SLBMs and cruise missiles, but in 2020 they might get a new system able to penetrate US defences...

    Hilarious.... the current US defences probably couldn't stop any warheads as it is... there is no evidence it would even work let alone determine which objects are decoys and which are actually warheads...

    They act like MAD is something new, but it is really something that never left...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:42 am

    The general issue is that we know success rate of ABM systems are rather shit. They may work (maybe) half the time against a SCUD. Yars and Topol-M on other hand are not a SCUD missile. They fly sporradic.

    So the question was asked to some individuals by another user if they think Topol-M and Yars are also fake? No answer. The problem is, they (Americans) have this firm belief that because they spend so much more money on defense than anyone else, that instantly means they have all the top of the line, newest stuff and also fielded it for 30 years to boot (with no evidence of course). Problem is, when you point out that majority of the budget goes to maintenance of soldiers and bases , along with it's current (and under reported) wars, and overpriced military gear, it leaves little left for real R&D. It also doesn't mean money = outcome of working product.

    But, Americans need to be informed by their own government if what Russia does is real. Otherwise, Russia is bullshitting and makes all garbage. And when you point out that US intelligence states it's real, then it's fake news.

    But these same Americans also stated that 13 years ago they destroyed the best Russian gear in a matter of days. I asked if that was Iraq and which weapon Iraq had was the best Russia had to offer?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:12 pm

    Good article on avangard

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-807.html
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:Denial is lovely this time of year, the view of Egypt is breathtaking...

    well of just phase before depression and final acceptance

    GB wrote:.. because the American way has become lies and fake news instead of truth and of course revenge instead of justice...

    meh, a revenge IS justice lol1 lol1 lol1


    GB wrote: I mean on paper the western mantra looks appealing in many ways, but like communism, in practise it ends up as nothing like what it promises...

    I was living under commies, and frankly it was not that bad. Was different - no homeless, no hungry, low crime rate no bailiffs kicking out poor families, no expensive cars and no private planes either. I wasnt in party (too young) neither my parents did. But now I'd subscribe lol1 lol1 lol1


    GB wrote:
    In the next US defence budget when they ask for over 1 trillion dollars to help the US catch up with Russia and China, I am sure these patriotic Americans will ask why they need to do this when everything Russia and China make is crap... or copied...


    this time copy is ahead before original creation though, couple of years lol1 lol1 lol1


    Look at this Avangard is materialization of Prompt Global Strike - With speed up to 30Ma and in fact global range (Shuttle with 25Ma required half a globe to land) .
    Way before US made its own working
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:24 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Good article on avangard

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-807.html




    Look at this Avangard is materialization of Prompt Global Strike -  With speed up to 30Ma and in fact global range (Shuttle with 25Ma required half a globe to land) .
    Way before US made its own working respekt respekt respekt
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    Post  Austin on Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:24 pm

    I wrote an article today on Russian Avangrad Program and Hypersonic Glide Vehical let me know how this is 


    AVANGRAD HYPERSONIC GLIDE VEHICLE
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:45 pm

    But these same Americans also stated that 13 years ago they destroyed the best Russian gear in a matter of days. I asked if that was Iraq and which weapon Iraq had was the best Russia had to offer?

    I remember chatting to American teenagers on the internet in the 1990s and they all seem to think that the Abrams defeated T-80s in Desert Storm...

    And of course Abrams tanks are invincible.

    I was living under commies, and frankly it was not that bad. Was different - no homeless, no hungry, low crime rate no bailiffs kicking out poor families, no expensive cars and no private planes either. I wasnt in party (too young) neither my parents did. But now I'd subscribe

    Well the payoff for capitalism was that chance to get really really rich, or at least very comfortable... you know... the middle class.

    These days there just seem to be the obscenely rich and the people with mortgages and working two or three jobs...

    I mentioned commies because their ignorance... Commies is bad mkay....

    I have lived through socialism and now capitalism... here in NZ there were a lot of government run things like the electricity grid, telecommunications, the health system, the education system, when they were privatised the government made very little money and the foreign companies that bought them made rather a lot of money but the promised savings never arrived... in particular with the telecommunications they fired everyone and hired 1/3rd of the work force back, which meant day to day costs were less but if their was a problem or a peak time they struggled to cope... of course the money saved became profit and was not reflected in the bill you got per month.

    Personally I don't give a shit about politics... they all make promises and break them when they get in... we pretty much have two big parties and lots of little ones the big parties have to negotiate with to make a government... so a little bit more democratic than the US, but not really actually democratic.

    this time copy is ahead before original creation though, couple of years

    Ohhh, My GOD... you are right... the next military budget for the US will be 20 trillion because the Russians have clearly invented a time machine and used it to steal US technology from the future. It is obvious that America invents the worlds first time machine so it will be 20 trillion well spent, but only 5 trillion will be used to invent the time machine.... the other 14 trillion will be for security to stop them from stealing it... again... and of course another 5 trillion for corruption probes into where all this money is actually going, so we really need 50 trillion... if we want to also pay for our defence...

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:40 am

    Austin wrote:I wrote an article today on Russian Avangrad Program and Hypersonic Glide Vehical let me know how this is 


    AVANGRAD HYPERSONIC GLIDE VEHICLE

    I didnt know you have a blogger passion mate respekt respekt respekt But since you asked my 2 eurocents here:




    a) Only a single HGV can be carried by Launch Platform making its application limited to Very High Value Target in a Nuclear Conflict

    no, not necessairly, UR-100N will carry one but this doesnt mean other (Sarmat) cannot carry more. Nobody yet stated it cn only 1

    b) Im not sure why lack of decoys is bad here? decoys are just rendered obsolete. Pls. you check this thread a bit earlier, according to Russian military (AFAIR en Bondaryev) USA need to use 500+ antimissiles to intercept 1 Avangard. This makes even with 12 t be installed by 2027 unfeasible by USA.


    c) Range of Avangard is unlikely 6,000km. Speed which was already proved by tests s more then 7,9km/s which means it can actually change in to orbiting shuttle with FOBS if needed. With unlimited range.

    d) US space shuttle while descending form Ma 25 needed ~ half of equator length to land. What means - it's an actual materialization of US PGS concept.


    e) atmosphere- AFAIK 100km Karman line) start so called dense layers - however Shuttle started to use aerodynamics control surfaces
    (at least) instead thrusters only.


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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:47 am

    GarryB wrote:And of course Abrams tanks are invincible.

    of course ! at least as long as it doesnt meet Yemeni Mountain People lol1 lol1 lol1



    GB wrote:Personally I don't give a shit about politics... they all make promises and break them when they get in... we pretty much have two big parties and lots of little ones the big parties have to negotiate with to make a government... so a little bit more democratic than the US, but not really actually democratic.

    well, US or UK claiming that communist China with couple of fractions in Commie Party is non democratic themselves have only 2 ruling parties. And how often did US or UK have referendum? with result against gtovt will? None I know of




    GB wrote: and of course another 5 trillion for corruption probes into where all this money is actually going, so we really need 50 trillion... if we want to also pay for our defence
    \

    meeh, no need to waste 5 trillions are not needed, corruption is only in North Korea where nothing is private. Or china or Russia. US is corruption democratic free country. lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Post  BKP on Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:35 am

    I'm an American, living in the US, and I'll tell you from experience that most Americans are deeply indoctrinated in the notion of American Exceptionalism. Whenever US politicians make public statements to the effect that it's America's right and duty to sort out the rest of the world as it sees fit due to the ever-loving light of righteousness blazing from each pore and follicle of America, Americans, for the most part, do not bat an eye. Internally they think (a bit fuzzily) something like: "Well, yes, of course, because ours is the best civilization that has ever been. We have the best of everything, and anything that is good and worthwhile was almost certainly invented by us. So, it stands to reason that we know what's best for everybody everywhere else whether they realize and accept it or not. After all, they're immensely jealous of us, covet what we have, and etc etc. I mean, they're all trying to move here aren't they?!"

    I'd say that the foremost American conceit is the deep-seated belief that American "leadership" always acts on the basis of good intentions in regard their actions on the world stage. Americans can slaughter millions of people across a dozen countries in just a little more than as many years, and, without fail, the results will be dismissed as an unfortunate consequence of innocent misjudgment stemming from the noblest intentions. That is if the results are even considered at all. There's football on, you see.

    It is absolutely remarkable.

    But, keep in mind that Joseph Goebbels looked to the US for inspiration in regard to picking up new, scientific techniques for indoctrinating the masses and it should not come as any great surprise. But, you know, it actually goes back even further. De Tocqueville wrote about an already existing notion of what amounted to American Exceptionalism that he had encountered in his own day.

    Garry mentioned Superman. It wouldn't surprise me if the character was a deliberate propaganda construct. Superman expresses an ideal that is, in fact, diametrically opposed to the reality of how of the US developed or it's true nature. But, in a symbolic sense, the ideal (which is a lie) is internalized and believed in. Reality is dismissed, excused away or ignored. WHO NEEDS THAT SHIT.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:34 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Austin wrote:I wrote an article today on Russian Avangrad Program and Hypersonic Glide Vehical let me know how this is 


    AVANGRAD HYPERSONIC GLIDE VEHICLE

    I didnt know you have a blogger passion mate respekt respekt respekt   But since you asked my 2 eurocents here:




    a) Only a single HGV can be carried by Launch Platform making its application limited to Very High Value Target in a Nuclear Conflict  

    no, not necessairly, UR-100N will carry one but this doesnt mean other (Sarmat) cannot carry more.  Nobody yet stated it cn only 1

    b) Im not sure why lack of decoys is bad here? decoys are just rendered obsolete. Pls. you check this thread a bit earlier, according to Russian military (AFAIR en  Bondaryev)  USA need to use 500+ antimissiles to intercept 1 Avangard. This makes even with 12 t be installed by 2027 unfeasible by USA.


    c) Range of Avangard is unlikely 6,000km. Speed which was already proved by tests s more then 7,9km/s  which means it can actually change in to orbiting shuttle with FOBS if needed. With unlimited range.  

    d) US space shuttle while descending form Ma 25 needed ~ half of equator length to land. What means - it's an actual materialization of US PGS concept.


    e) atmosphere-  AFAIK 100km Karman line) start so called dense layers - however Shuttle started to use  aerodynamics control surfaces  
    (at least) instead thrusters only.  



    Thank You Mate.

    On HGV being carried in single launch platform  , Yes I was in dual mind to mention Sarmat with can carry multiple HGV but I avoided then but now mentioned it.

    Decoys and Jammers are needed because they can expontially increase the survivability of missile , Weather HGV needs it or not can be debatable but it cant be done with HGV for sure but atleast post Boost Phase they need to deploy Decoys and Jammers till HGV gets detached.  Not sure how long is the midcourse phase till HGV gets detached. 

    Yes agree on Range Part I removed it and mentioned ICBM ranges , I think HGV are like FOBS because they can come in and out of atmosphere and can simply dive in between sub-orbital flight to the target , What is your opinion on this , Would love to hear it. 

    100 km is just the start of atmosphere not sure how dense it is say compared to  80 or 50 or 30 km I expect to be less dense.

    Another point is HGV can still fly at 200 km what prevents it from doing so ? 

    Thank You for your feedback. I have modified it and added some new content 

    Do you also blog ?
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:35 am

    meeh, no need to waste 5 trillions are not needed, corruption is only in North Korea where nothing is private. Or china or Russia. US is corruption democratic free country.

    Well to be fair they set up several committee groups to look in to the case of corruption and the representatives from Coca Cola and Microsoft agreed that there was no corruption in the US government... and they also passed a few amendments that removed any liability for a US company in case a foreign individual or group is injured of killed because of the negligence of a US based company (that has all its production off shore and pays no taxes in any of the countries it operates within.)

    Garry mentioned Superman. It wouldn't surprise me if the character was a deliberate propaganda construct. Superman expresses an ideal that is, in fact, diametrically opposed to the reality of how of the US developed or it's true nature. But, in a symbolic sense, the ideal (which is a lie) is internalized and believed in. Reality is dismissed, excused away or ignored. WHO NEEDS THAT SHIT.

    The sad thing is that Superman is obvious... what is less obvious are things like Walt Disney cartoons... the underdog not only always wins, but wins with ease... with class you could say. In the real world the mouse might occasionally get away from a cat or a dog, but most of the time it is lunch... and the reason the mouse is usually lunch is the reason we tend to keep cats in our houses... that is their primary function.
    Coyotes are faster than roadrunners, hunters generally shoot lots of rabbits... the reason there are still rabbits is their ability to breed... which is not how it is depicted in Disney cartoons with Bugs and Elmer Fudd.

    The huge irony is that Disney and Hollywood in general gets you rooting for the underdog.... and hating the bully that threatens that underdog... but I found myself rooting for the bully because after so many defeats the bully becomes the real underdog.

    A further twist in the irony is that it is the US that is the bully in most of its confrontations and incidents...

    But having said that I suspect most people around the world are patriotic and have little idea what their government does around the place... the problem with the US government doing things is that the things they do generally have a significant effect on those involved.

    So much irony... the US media goes apeshit over alleged foreign interference in their elections, yet US has such an effect on the world perhaps it would have been the one case of justified interference... I mean all those countries donating money to the Clinton foundation and all those donations stopping when she lost the election... how is that not trying to bribe the potential next president of the US of A?

    Electorial officials in the US can discount enormous blocks of ballot papers for whatever reason, but a $200 advert on Facebook that there is no evidence influenced a single vote is treason?

    Sorry dude, but America is a joke.... and not a good one either.

    Perhaps the solution is a hypersonic glide vehicle... what you need to do BKP, is get all your politicians... all of them... democrat and republican... into one building out in the middle of nowhere in Utah at a specific time and organise a live test with Mr Putin... he is going to get the blame anyway...
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:39 am

    100 km is just the start of atmosphere not sure how dense it is say compared to 80 or 50 or 30 km I expect to be less dense.

    Most of the atmosphere is below 15km altitude but you can fly well above 40km altitude.

    In a 320km orbit altitude the ISS often runs into small pockets of escaping gas, which slows it down ever so slightly... so every few months it needs to do a fuel burn to accelerate it to keep it at the height it operates at.

    The atmosphere is not fixed and can bulge and stretch in different places.

    Of course the vacuum of space is not completely empty either and contains particles of gas and solids... just mostly empty.

    Dust clouds are visible in lots of places in space and can form disks and eventually solar systems... they are often the remnants of stars that previously exploded.

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