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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:57 am

    So after numerous back-and-forth posts, we come to the conclusion that atmospheric conditions have an effect on such a system.
    Great, lets talk about Earth not being flat now.

    Indeed.... congratulations to the west... the EU, NATO, and the US... and the prize you have won is forward military bases much closer to Russia... and some willing monkeys for your foreign interventions no doubt.

    What you have also succeeded in doing is making the name of democracy and freedom into Mud in Russia to the vast majority.

    For the Baltic states and eastern europe and now the ukraine... most of their organisations of any value will be absorbed into your big multinationals like Kraft and Nike and any money they do make will end up in your pockets... the locals will work three jobs at minimum wage just to pay the bills and likely pay more tax than Google does every year...

    Welcome to the American dream... Twisted Evil
    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:17 pm

    I am depressed. Another september and another censored truce. When this war will end? Of course the cease fire is good news for the civilians under shelling and the troops, but I am so frustrated about this turd that it is Minsk. That's no peace, that's surrender for Novorussia. The people from Donbass just can't get back in Ukraine with people that hate them and have been doing their worst to exterminate them.

    The Kremlin people are idiots, they won the war in the summer of 2014 and they should have gone onwards to the Dnieper and dictate peace terms to the West.

    Anyway, you all know that. Just letting off steam. I understand Moscow plays a long game. I really really hope this is not the beginning of a bad peace, just another temporary truce to freeze the conflict until something else happens. What worries me is that this time Kiev seems to be bowing to pressure from Germany. I pray that the Minsk betrayal is never implemented at all.

    So please tell me, if there are any encouraging signs that this is all a charade, like the previous two truces, and things will go back to "normal" after a few weeks. It seems Moscow wants to freeze the conflict until after the US elections and hoping for sanctions to be lifted.

    Only sign of hope I see is that Donbass is far too gone and integrated into Russia economy for a return to Ukraine to be envisaged. That boat sailed long ago. Also, that the junta is unable to make peace and in fact they are preparing yet another mobilization. They are agreeing to a truce because they are exhausted after the attrition war during spring and summer.

    Also, it makes me feel better that the Syria peace deal has collapsed. I bet American hawks will press for resumption of hostilities after november.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:24 am

    By the end of this year, two self-propelled high-power artillery divisions will be formed in one of the Southern Military District’s artillery units. One division will be equipped with 240-,, self-propelled Tulipan mortars and the second will be armed with 203-mm 2C7M Malka self-propelled artillery installations.

    The highlight of the report by the Southern Military District’s press service is that we are dealing with quite old systems, a large part of which were pulled back into reserve in the 1990’s. Even a glance at the photo at the top of this article is enough to understand that we are talking about quite aged weapons systems.

    Nevertheless, these are heavy-duty installations which still do not have any equivalent artillery analogues and are still of significant military value. This is true especially considering their undergoing modernization, which increases their accuracy at hitting targets located at a distance of dozens of kilometers.

    Putting these artillery systems back in operation might indicate a certain adjustment in the plans of deploying Russian armed forces on the border with Ukraine given the extreme uncertainty of the military and political situation and the possibility of “surprises” from our so-called “Western partners.”

    The risk of an unpredictable turn of events is probably being considered by the Russian command as highly relevant insofar as, along with planned rearming of the army with new military equipment, the military has resorted to increasing the combat power of troops by reactivating the arsenals of, albeit old, formidable weapons.

    This is being done despite the fact that the most important benchmark of the current state program on rearming the army is none other than the distribution of new equipment. This might spoil a few planned indicators. But, apparently, the reality of the situation is such that these indicators are no longer seen as the main priority.


    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/09/just-in-case-russia-reactivates-moves.html
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:50 pm

    Vitaly Kiselev, one of the men who helped raise the flag of Novorossiya over Debaltsevo, now apparently a "traitor", well well, what interesting times......
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25 - Page 30 12d8ca9996b0
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:05 pm

    Interesting is an understatement.

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/09/lugansk-coup-arrest-wave-locks-up.html
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:10 pm

    That post about Kiselev I edited, and I think you can guess what sort of things I removed.....
    However, the situation is not clear and without more information it is difficult to make a fully coherent responce to what has happened, but no matter what we are told has happened, or what we think has happened, it all stinks.

    On gut reaction and without evidence, I would assume that this was a real coup attempt, but not organised by Kiev, but an attempt to remove Plotnitsky. Reality will be lost in a flood of disinformation and already some of the techniques used in the purges are visible.


    Last edited by Khepesh on Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:19 pm

    I understand the reason for your edit. After reading the entire short article on Russ I figured what the heck. I'm sure more will come out tonight and tomorrow. Sending Sparta shows how serious the situation was and may still be. LNR has always been a bit of a festering sore.
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:40 pm

    A contradiction. Kiselev gives full details of the coup, yet on arrest was shot twice, apparently, and is in intensive care. I wonder at what point he made his confession, before being shot or after, or was he presented with an already written confession to sign/drip some of his blood on.

    In Alchevsk something may have occured with the Cossacks, but this is not clear. Ishchenko, Mozgovoi and Dremov were all Cossacks from that area. I think maybe Kozitsyn could be feeling nervous, even in Rostov, if he is still there.
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    Post  Guest Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:22 am

    Khepesh wrote:In Alchevsk something may have occured with the Cossacks, but this is not clear. Ishchenko, Mozgovoi and Dremov were all Cossacks from that area. I think maybe Kozitsyn could be feeling nervous, even in Rostov, if he is still there.
    What exactly happened, or can you not say?
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    Post  Khepesh Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:10 am

    I don't know, nobody has any 100% info. But it seems that Cossacks in Alchevsk rebelled, or were about to as they have had enough of Plotnitsky. Generally there is a great silence occuring, a silence that would not happen if this was really the destruction of a Kiev backed coup, but more from nervousness and even some embarrassment about the tragic clown show that is Lugansk.

    This article, published before the coup is very revealing. http://novo24.ru/doc/105366_versiia._zachem_na_donbass_vozvrashautsia_igor_bezler_i_aleksandr_hodakovskiy.html
    Just some main points. A week ago Plotnitsky's parents died at Voronezh due to mushroom poisoning. Plotnitsky essentially has been living in Russia and only coming to Lugansk for meetings. Rumors that Plotnitsky may resign, partly due to assasination of Zhilin, who was a liason between him and Moscow. Political scientist Lev Vershilin said, one day before the coup, that in Lugansk there will be a change in government, either by Plotnitsky leaving or by force. The return of Khodakovsky and the possible return of Bezler to Donbass, both enemies of Plotnitsky. Any return of Bezler needs authorization from Kremlin. Bezler is not confirming or denying this, but instead makes reference to this article. In Donetsk on 16-17 September Alexei Smirnov, commander of humanitarian battalion "Angel" and some of his men were arrested by MGB and have not been heard from since arrest. Not at face value connected to Lugansk, but yet another strange arrest, like that of Purgin and others last year, and since the coup Plotnitsky has spoken about "Traitors with DNR and LNR plotting to hand over Donbass to the army of Ukraine" [Obvious lie from him]. Also, the article says that Plotnitsky will be removed either because he has been seen to have failed, or that he has been caught doing some serious stealing. It's all very ugly.

    Edit: Removed parts of original post.
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    Post  franco Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:37 pm

    Kind of hard to be telling Country 404 jokes after this.
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:49 pm

    Some trivia.

    Yesterday on the LNR official news site there was no news, 24 September is a blank, tho of course there was news in other forms, but odd nothing on official site. The only news item for today is about the "Day of Machinists" Look here for all this "news" https://nslnr.su

    On "Novosti LNR" today there is no news about any coup, but they did cover the story yesterday. Nothing new, but I want to repeat this, which has been widely circulated due to it's stupidity, insult to intelligence, and throwback to the purges. Officialy, Tsepkalo, in fear of threats to his life, hanged himself. This is what the headline says as well "The suspect in the attempted coup, former Prime Minister of LNR, Tsepkalo, hanged himself from fear" He managed to do this while in MGB basement......  http://новости-лнр.ru-an.info/новости/подозреваемый-в-попытке-путча-экс-премьер-лнр-цыпкалов-повесился-от-страха/

    Amongst the deafening silence is growing feeling that irrespective of any control of Donbass from Kremlin. Plotnitsky may now not be de facto head of LNR, but that Zakharchenko may be head of all LDNR in everything but name.

    Complicated......
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    Post  Benya Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:12 pm

    Bastards! angry


    Ukrainian military units targeted civilians at the checkpoint ‘Mayorsk’

    Armed military units of Ukraine carried out mortar shelling ay the checkpoint Mayorsk (close t Gorlovka). It was reported yesterday by the DPR Defence Department.
    ‘Subdivision of Ukrainian nationalists keeps on demonstrating their will not too fulfill orders of military commandment. In particular, they shelled the checkpoint ‘Mayorsk’, having launched 3 mines of 82 mm caliber and they used infantry combat vehicle once’, Basurin pointed out.

    Source: Arrow
    http://novorossia.today/ukrainian-military-units-targeted-civilians-at-the-checkpoint-mayorsk/



    Poroshenko's mercenary battalions (Azov, Donbas) gone out of control. This is really bad No
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    Post  Guest Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:39 am

    Makes sense, thanks for the info Khepesh
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:33 am

    A number of news outlets have been silent since last Friday, others make no mention of events in Lugansk, or only repeat the barest details as given by LNR prosecutor Rakhno, a man who looked uncomfortable as he gave the briefing. Cossack news is one of those who are now silent.

    I do not doubt that some here have seen the post by admin of another forum stating that Vitaly Kiselev was in fact killed, not shot then put in hospital. No other source is confirming this so I cannot say if it is true or not, but I strongly suspect it is true, we will see soon enough I think, and one source, not as reliable, says Kiselev is not in intensive care, as some say, but if you are dead, then probably not.....

    Generally the major commentators hold back from expressing any opinion. Rozhin was asked directly what happens, but sidestepped and referred to comments he made more than a year ago about what happens in Lugansk. However, beyond the official version, that has no credibility, three versions of what happened have been posted.

    1. There was no coup attempt and Plotnitsky simply decided to deal with internal opposition to him.

    2. There was a coup attempt, and with the purpose of removing Plotnitsky and then saying to Moscow, "We got rid of this idiot, now choose one of us to lead LNR".

    3. There was disagreement between Plotnitsky and part of Kremlin, and disagreement within Kremlin which led to an "order" being given to those in Lugansk opposed to Plotnitsky to launch a coup, and this then failed, and is a major reason for the great silence as people do not know what to say, at least not while the picture in the shattered jigsaw is still very unclear.

    All work on assumption that it was internal, or at least had no input from Kiev, which I agree with. Of the three scenarios I completely discount 3. Between version 1 and 2, then 2 seems more likely, and I base that on it still seeming that there was a rebellion in Alchevsk, but zero news of this, tho it is becoming more widely accepted that something serious occured, and still some uncomfortable rumors.
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:51 pm

    From Graham Phillips "After confirmation from several reliable sources, Vitaly Kiselev is now dead"  https://twitter.com/GrahamWP_UK/status/780344509410533376
    But he follows this with tweet that other sources say he is alive. Until Kiselev is shown alive I will presume he is dead. Hopefully he still lives. Phillips also says he will be in Lugansk in the near future. As he is not part of any faction, then maybe he can speak truth that others will not.

    Edit: Kiselev alive, good.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:51 pm

    HOT HOT HOT HOT Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil

    https://www.rt.com/news/360634-mh17-ukraine-radar-data/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    Russian radar data shows no missile attack on MH17 from rebel side, indicates Ukraine involvement


    Update: Russian MoD has presented these data

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/20160926/1045706155/mh17-crash-site.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=cqtz&utm_campaign=URL_shortening
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:45 pm

    Is this ammo usable by the UAF, or just special units?


    Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems ready to expand ammunition for small weapons of Ukrainian troops. Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems Ltd. that designs ammunition and small weapons is ready to participate in the upgrade of ammunition for small weapons of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    According to Interfax-Ukraine's sources in the defense sector, recently the company held a successful presentation of new ammunition for the Ukrainian Armed Forces and National Guard in Ukraine.

    The new ammunition included Stiletto 9mm LUGER bullet with muzzle velocity 600m/sec, a close quarter armor piercing round designed to penetrate all current body armor and light armored vehicles; Stiletto 7.62/51 armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity 810 to 830m/sec capable of piercing 12 to 20.5mm (Brinell hardness 450) armor plate at ranges from 100 to 600m; Stiletto.338LM armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity up to 900m/sec capable of piercing all known body armor up to a range of 1,800m and armor plates from 12 to 20.5mm at a range of 700m; Stiletto AP bullet of 5,56 x 45 mm (with wolfram carbide core) capable of piercing armor plates over 10mm from the distance of up to 450m.

    The source said that now Stiletto Systems Ltd. is working on plans to organize production of new bullets in Ukraine.

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    Post  eehnie Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:15 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Is this ammo usable by the UAF, or just special units?


    Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems ready to expand ammunition for small weapons of Ukrainian troops. Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems Ltd. that designs ammunition and small weapons is ready to participate in the upgrade of ammunition for small weapons of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    According to Interfax-Ukraine's sources in the defense sector, recently the company held a successful presentation of new ammunition for the Ukrainian Armed Forces and National Guard in Ukraine.

    The new ammunition included Stiletto 9mm LUGER bullet with muzzle velocity 600m/sec, a close quarter armor piercing round designed to penetrate all current body armor and light armored vehicles; Stiletto 7.62/51 armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity 810 to 830m/sec capable of piercing 12 to 20.5mm (Brinell hardness 450) armor plate at ranges from 100 to 600m; Stiletto.338LM armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity up to 900m/sec capable of piercing all known body armor up to a range of 1,800m and armor plates from 12 to 20.5mm at a range of 700m; Stiletto AP bullet of 5,56 x 45 mm (with wolfram carbide core) capable of piercing armor plates over 10mm from the distance of up to 450m.

    The source said that now Stiletto Systems Ltd. is working on plans to organize production of new bullets in Ukraine.

    It means the stored ammunition of some calibers is being finished and Ukraine needs to start production of new ammunition for its weapons. As consequence the war will be more expensive still for them than until now. With the time it will happen for more calibers.
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    Post  TheArmenian Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:11 am

    JohninMK wrote:Is this ammo usable by the UAF, or just special units?


    Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems ready to expand ammunition for small weapons of Ukrainian troops. Ukrainian-British Stiletto Systems Ltd. that designs ammunition and small weapons is ready to participate in the upgrade of ammunition for small weapons of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    According to Interfax-Ukraine's sources in the defense sector, recently the company held a successful presentation of new ammunition for the Ukrainian Armed Forces and National Guard in Ukraine.

    The new ammunition included Stiletto 9mm LUGER bullet with muzzle velocity 600m/sec, a close quarter armor piercing round designed to penetrate all current body armor and light armored vehicles; Stiletto 7.62/51 armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity 810 to 830m/sec capable of piercing 12 to 20.5mm (Brinell hardness 450) armor plate at ranges from 100 to 600m; Stiletto.338LM armor piercing 'Sniper' bullet with muzzle velocity up to 900m/sec capable of piercing all known body armor up to a range of 1,800m and armor plates from 12 to 20.5mm at a range of 700m; Stiletto AP bullet of 5,56 x 45 mm (with wolfram carbide core) capable of piercing armor plates over 10mm from the distance of up to 450m.

    The source said that now Stiletto Systems Ltd. is working on plans to organize production of new bullets in Ukraine.

    None of the above calibers is common in Ukraine army.
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    Post  Project Canada Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:56 pm




    MH17 shot down by rebels using Buk system brought from Russia – int’l investigators

    A Dutch-led team of international investigators has released its findings in the criminal probe on the MH17 crash, concluding the plane was shot down by rebels in eastern Ukraine by a Buk missile system brought from Russia. Moscow has repeatedly denied supplying weapons to the rebels.
    The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) consists of investigators and experts from the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, Malaysia and Ukraine, and was tasked with determining who was responsible for the incident.

    The Dutch-led Joint Investigative Team says that a technical problem and an “attack within the aircraft,” such as a terrorist assault, can be ruled out.

    No other aircraft could have shot down the plane either, the JIT says, citing various radar data, including that provided by Russia.

    The JIT presented an audio recording that allegedly proves that rebel forces voiced a need for a Buk missile system, and subsequently received one.

    The investigators claim that a Buk missile system was brought from Russia and was returned to the country after the incident.

    The JIT says that MH17 was shot down by a 9M38 missile, as stated by the Dutch Safety Board report last year.

    According to the JIT, the team investigated the claims by Russia that the plane was shot down from Zaroschenske, held by Ukrainian forces. Citing an alleged audio interception of the rebels, the JIT concluded that the missile did not come from that territory.

    International investigators instead say that flight MH17 was shot down from the village of Pervomayskoye, held by rebel forces at the time of the incident.

    Ukraine and its foreign sponsors repeatedly accused Russia of arming and supporting the rebels, an accusation that Moscow denies.

    Almost immediately after MH17 was downed, Western media and some governments blamed Russia, claiming Moscow had either provided the Buk system to the rebels or sent its regular troops to take down Ukrainian warplanes on their behalf.

    Russia denied the accusations on numerous occasions. It also challenged Kiev’s claims that Ukraine had neither warplanes nor Buk systems in the area by producing public satellite and radar images showing evidence to the contrary.


    This investigation is total BS charade. From the very beginning they intended to make Russia responsible for this Terror incident devised by Pindostan and Ukrapistan Rolling Eyes
    Russia needs to hit back hard!
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:58 pm

    F*** THE EU

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25 - Page 30 Untitl10
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:04 pm

    Did anyone really expect the feckless Dutch to tell the truth? Seriously, this "BUK from Russia" theory is so pathetic and lame on so many levels, yet the DSB actually buys into this shtako? angry

    There will be a firm response to this pack of lies... godammn dutch cowards.... lying to the world, their own people and the families of the victims, all to continue a geo-political agenda.

    I have zero respect for the Dutch. A feckless bunch of craven cowards, lining up to lick Uncle Shams !@#$-crack. angry

    1) We know that MH17 was downed by a BUK.
    2) The rebels had no BUK systems or the knowledge to use them.
    3) The DSB is compelled to blame Russia for geo-political reasons.
    4) The only way reconcile 1) and 2) is for a BUK to be supplied to the rebels by a 3rd party, ie Russia

    VOILA!! The narrative is born, and now the DSB dutifully performs an "investigation" where they ignore all data from Russia, overlook the refusal of the Ukies to submit FTC data, overlook the refusal of the US to provide its "proof" of Russian involvement, ignore the input from the BUK manufacturer, and accept at face value all of the fabricated "evidence" from Ukraine (who did have BUKs in the area and have a huge interest in LYING to pin the blame on Russia).

    Only a 1st class fuckwit could accept this "finding". angry
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    Post  wilhelm Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:08 pm

    Large portions of the "evidence" seems to be lifted straight out of the notoriously anti-Russian Bellingcat "evidence". You know, the "evidence" chubby little unemployed Elliot Higgins "gathered" on his couch in his little flat in London, in between stuffing food down his face and child minding his daughter.
    They even mention Bellingcat, as well as "social media".
    Just let that sink in for a moment.

    It was clear as day from the very beginning what this "commissions" task was and where they would point a finger.

    I wouldn't even use the report paper to wipe my arse with. Laughing
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    Post  par far Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:24 pm

    Project Canada wrote:


    MH17 shot down by rebels using Buk system brought from Russia – int’l investigators

    A Dutch-led team of international investigators has released its findings in the criminal probe on the MH17 crash, concluding the plane was shot down by rebels in eastern Ukraine by a Buk missile system brought from Russia. Moscow has repeatedly denied supplying weapons to the rebels.
    The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) consists of investigators and experts from the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, Malaysia and Ukraine, and was tasked with determining who was responsible for the incident.

    The Dutch-led Joint Investigative Team says that a technical problem and an “attack within the aircraft,” such as a terrorist assault, can be ruled out.

    No other aircraft could have shot down the plane either, the JIT says, citing various radar data, including that provided by Russia.

    The JIT presented an audio recording that allegedly proves that rebel forces voiced a need for a Buk missile system, and subsequently received one.

    The investigators claim that a Buk missile system was brought from Russia and was returned to the country after the incident.

    The JIT says that MH17 was shot down by a 9M38 missile, as stated by the Dutch Safety Board report last year.

    According to the JIT, the team investigated the claims by Russia that the plane was shot down from Zaroschenske, held by Ukrainian forces. Citing an alleged audio interception of the rebels, the JIT concluded that the missile did not come from that territory.

    International investigators instead say that flight MH17 was shot down from the village of Pervomayskoye, held by rebel forces at the time of the incident.

    Ukraine and its foreign sponsors repeatedly accused Russia of arming and supporting the rebels, an accusation that Moscow denies.

    Almost immediately after MH17 was downed, Western media and some governments blamed Russia, claiming Moscow had either provided the Buk system to the rebels or sent its regular troops to take down Ukrainian warplanes on their behalf.

    Russia denied the accusations on numerous occasions. It also challenged Kiev’s claims that Ukraine had neither warplanes nor Buk systems in the area by producing public satellite and radar images showing evidence to the contrary.


    This investigation is total BS charade. From the very beginning they intended to make Russia responsible for this Terror incident devised by Pindostan and Ukrapistan Rolling Eyes  
    Russia needs to hit back hard!


    This, Release all the information you have Russia, don't hold back.

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