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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    auslander
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    Post  auslander Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:02 am

    calm wrote:Ukr. TV calls for creation of concentration camps for people of Donbass | Eng Subs
    Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=878_1466610724#gPyBoR4KQSCiFBRr.99

    These are the darlings of EU and Langley. Ain't they sweet? Apparently my father didn't kill enough of those nazi swine in '44-'45.
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:35 pm

    In Przemysl people marching to commemerate Petlyura get their ears scorched by Poles throwing insults. While from Petlyura's actions during the revolution and civil war eventually emerged, after his assasination, Bandera and all the nightmares surrounding him, that Poles shout down those commemerating Petlyura show how very complicted history and politics is in this part of the world, because Petlyura fought alongside Poland's greatest hero, Pilsudski, and in the military cemetery in Przemysl where Petlyura is buried, are also graves of members of OUN which was responsible for Volyn massacre of Poles. Makhno is also involved in this so it is all very very complicated, madness.
    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:53 pm

    LPR frontline report: war could restart any time; Russian comrades are returning to front

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/06/lpr-frontline-report-war-could-restart.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FortRuss+%28Fort+Russ%29
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:45 pm

    Being reported that Kominternovo is under 122mm artillery fire. Not unusual as it is almost every day, but today it has started very early. Only reason I even bother to mention this is that a few hours back it was reported from Mariupol that Sakhanka was under bombardment and the smoke from the explosions clearly seen, and it seems that the bombardment is not on VSN positions at Sakhanka but on the positions south of the village and along down to the coast.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:37 pm

    auslander wrote:
    calm wrote:Ukr. TV calls for creation of concentration camps for people of Donbass | Eng Subs
    Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=878_1466610724#gPyBoR4KQSCiFBRr.99

    These are the darlings of EU and Langley. Ain't they sweet? Apparently my father didn't kill enough of those nazi swine in '44-'45.


    Disgusting.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:17 am

    Why the Ukraine conflict is not like any other ,that Russia have faced?

    Zhuravko: Islyamov Could Engage in Nuclear Terrorism for the Sake of Blackmailing Russia

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/06/zhuravko-islyamov-could-engage-in.html

    As i said more than a year ago , the ukraine conflict will be better seen as a
    hostage situation by terrorist. the difference here is that instead of being a school ,is an entire
    nation and instead of being ISIS or ALqaeda, is the american government and the CIA the one who is doing the damage. and fighting a proxy war against Russia there. So any operation of Russia in Ukraine will have to be undercovertly ,so they cannot be blamed for any accident in Ukraine. Neither that Russia can incite a major ethnic cleansing of Russians in other cities in Ukraine and more odessa massacres ,if Russia invades.

    Basically all this concentration camps warnings ,russian baby cakes ,crucifying people ,
    the shelling of civilians day and night ,the shelling of Russia border by Ukrotrops early in the conflict , the Nazi theme ,all those things have no other goal that to provoke Russia to invade
    Ukraine. Kiev Government needs to create a nation unity ,and the only way to achieve is by
    starting the war and if possible provoke Russia to a full scale invasion. SO later AMericans
    and Kiev can claim "Russia aggression" and add more sanctions on Russia.

    Fortunately Europe ,Germany and France will not buy that. and the last word is that
    Poroshenko reception in brussels was one of very cold.  One major possibility ,of what could
    happen is that Europe sends special forces to Ukraine undercoverly to elimite of all radicals
    and Nazis. in other words a major clash between Europe vs Pentagon ISIS moderates and CIA
    financed mercenaries in Ukraine.

    Because the risk of a major nuclear disaster will affect Europe.  So for any action in Ukraine
    Russia will need France/Germany help with most of Europe ,to corner Porosehnko and give him an ultimatum.

    so what things they could try?
    1)Chemical attacks on Crimea fired from artillery from Ukraine.
    2)Chemical attacks on Russia territory from Ukraine
    3)Major massacres of ethnic Russians at Russian borders.
    4)NATO blaming all in Russia.
    5) and possibly attacks on Nuclear reactors ,the one closer to Crimea ,will be
    the one hit. and not the one close to Poland.
    6)Isis suicide bombers.

    Naturally any of things things will only provoke a major outrage on Europe ,specially
    if suicide bombers discovered ,and Poroshenko will have to give a lot of explanations ,
    and if Russia maintain the patience ,it will end with Europe giving an ultimatum to Americans
    and Kiev to stop the war.  Europe have all the tools to blackmail US in many ways ,like disbanding NATO and many other things.


    So Russia needs to continue with patience ,even if civilians die ,because if Russia do a full
    scale invasion ,many more civilians will die. like a hostage situation. and help undercovertly to
    push the Ukie away of the front line .and try to get United Nations to become involved .  and continue freezing the conflict. until Ukraine budget collapse and or US no longer can finance them. and Europe gets tired of kiev. Already in ST petersburg banki moon told that Russia had
    a critical role is saving the conflicts in Europe and Middle east. and the European commisioner also told something similar. The italian prime minister also present even demanded the respect of kiev of ethnic minorities.  So this mean Russia is winning the Public Opinion in Europe over the ukraine conflict (just like in Syria too) and Poroshenko and kiev losing it.  Possibily Europe could get tired and recognize Donetsk and Lugansk and Crimea independence. against American
    wishes. if Poroshenko does not implement minsk-2 and even send military to help Russia restore order. This is what will force Americans to retreat ,whenever it see Germany and France working with Russia.   Poroshenko is digging his own grave ,because Russia is compiling a very long list of warcrimes with a million of witness commited by Kiev military operation in donetsk.
    that Russia will later will use for a tribunal of war crimes against every kiev politician who backed the war.   So it looks like even a much bigger split between Europe and Americans
    are in the horizon and this will be only good for Russia.

    and finally.. one very BIG possibility for Ukraine,that is already under discussion in
    kiev is holding a referendum (british brexit style) to separate from the zones controlled by Rebels in Lugansk and Donetsk. So what this really means is that basically Americans will prefer to lose Donetsk and Lugansk , than to have to implement minsk-2 peace trap. Because Minks-2
    implementation in full ,in reality can only happen when there is a Reverse of the coup in kiev.
    and Democracy restored and Ethnic Russians allowed to have representation in Kiev parliament
    in politics and the opportunity to promote a Candidate that defeat poroshenko that is pro Russian ,effectively reversing the Americans coup and returning Ukraine politics to 2013 when Yakunovych was President and was not illegal or criminal to want to join Russia.

    So by separating from Donetsk and Lugansk , kiev can bypass minsk-2 agreement.
    which force kiev to return to a democracy and end its fascism and Rusophobia.

    auslander
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    Post  auslander Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:55 pm

    Dead silence from The West and OSCE. Figures.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zI7g8tkkS0
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    Post  Khepesh Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:31 pm

    While the usual reports and Militarymaps show ukrops firing artillery onto Kominternovo again, and from about 10km back from their positions yesterday, which got hammered by VSN counterbattery fire. From what locals say, ukrops are also still firing from the approximate positions as yesterday, and that incoming counterbattery fire is heavy near Talakovka, some report it is incoming Grad, others that there has been outgoing 152mm. Whatever the reality, all are concerned that what happens now is much more intense than yesterday, or any previous day since September 2014.

    Edit: Enter these coordinates into google earth 47°57'04"N 38°49'45"E and roll back the date to 6/17/2014 then look at what you see and then slowly zoom out with attention to what place appears at the NW. The date is one day before MH17, but it is contended that the date on this photo is on google time, which is California time, ten hours behind Donbass, and therefore, this photo could be actually taken on morning of 17th. Of course it may be taken on 16th Donbass time, or even on 17th and may have no connection to MH17, but still has some interest. http://chervonec-001.livejournal.com/1414109.html
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    Post  Khepesh Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:54 pm

    Basurin has now confirmed that on southern front at Mariupol ukrops have been firing 122 and 152mm artlillery from multiple locations onto VSN positions. He does not of course ever mention any specific reply.
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:48 am

    It seems Putin is having trouble freezing the conflict in Ukraine. Ukraine is much bigger than Moldova and Georgia and borders NATO. Ukraine is a whole different ball game than Moldova and Georgia. Failure to stop Maidan coup means decades if not centuries of trouble on Russia's border.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:26 am

    Russian armor involved in the Donbass War I

    Russian armor involved in the Donbass War II

    Russian armor involved in the Donbass War III

    Russian armor involved in the Donbass War IV
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    Post  Khepesh Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:51 pm

    The situation north of Debaltsevo seems to have become very serious and ukrops are reported to have advanced 4km. It may be reccon in force, as at Belaya Kamenka last summer, or an attempt to gain and keep ground in preperation for an attempt to take Debaltsevo, which would presumably be part of ukrops offensive. As a caveat, there is no clear info on exactly what is happening at the moment. Bezler has suggested this could be an attempt to drive a wedge between Debaltsevo and Uglegorsk, and he also says that several important high points have been taken by ukrops. I am very aware that Bezler has been saying various things in his ongoing bitchfest against Strelkov and others, but on this current situation I cannot see any reason for him say anything than what he really sees the situation to be.

    Basurin has essentially admitted that ukrops have advanced 4km and the fighting is non stop. A short time ago the city administration of Debaltsevo in emergency meeting declared that the city is safe and VSN will hold. Personally I think this is not offensive, but a more serious version of Belaya Kamenka and will calm down by the end of the day, if people keep their heads and things are not allowed to get out of control.

    http://www.novorosinform.org/news/56201

    Edit: It seems what happened that ukrops had found a weakness in VSN defence and immediately pushed thro reserve units held behind the front specifically for this purpose. If so, this shows that the constant bombardments are not just "trolling" but have very serious intent. Latest messages say that the situation is becoming stable, but whether this means that ukrops have simply been stopped were they are, or have been pushed back off the high points is not clear.

    Edit: According to a report from VSN soldier. Early this morning ukrops launched offensive towards Logvinovo, and despite heavy casualties in tanks and infantry, over-run VSN first and second line defences. The situation now is that VSN have retaken second defensive line but ukrops remain on first line. Ukrops media have been reporting that VSN launched offensive, well, of course......

    This map is not official
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25 - Page 7 60eb9a498240
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    Post  Khepesh Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:08 pm

    VSN reserve moved forward and have rectified the situation.....
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:14 pm

    Terrorists have America supplied counter battery radars. Good people don't have that. Russia refuses to supply. This could get ugly. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst Shocked
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:15 pm

    Khepesh wrote:VSN reserve moved forward and have rectified the situation.....
    Lovely way to express it.
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:18 pm

    If I were Putin I'd bomb the Kiev presidential palace and kill Poroshenko that terrorist. Yanukovych is the legitimate president of Ukraine, not Poroshenko.
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    Post  Khepesh Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:24 pm

    It is thought that this was a provocation to attempt to draw VSN into making a counter-attack that would take them into ukrops rear areas and draw them into a pot, but this has not happened and ukrops are just forced back to their start positions.

    Quoting my post #949 on 2 June on volume 24 Ukraine thread
    Khepesh wrote: Not a prediction, simply an observation, that between old and new calender dates for Kupala could be interesting, or not, I do not know.
    New calender date for Ivan Kupala is 23 June and old is 6 July, today is about halfway. Kudos to Strelkov for that.
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:33 pm

    Russia to give Ukraine control of the border along Donbas. This is basically a death sentence to the people of Donbas. This is basically like Turkey giving control of Syria border to Syria.

    https://twitter.com/interfaxua/status/748167973429448704
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    Post  medo Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:38 pm

    Resistance wrote:Terrorists have America supplied counter battery radars. Good people don't have that. Russia refuses to supply. This could get ugly. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst Shocked

    Novorussian army also have America supplied counter battery radar. They captured it in Debaltsevo.
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:56 pm

    medo wrote:
    Resistance wrote:Terrorists have America supplied counter battery radars. Good people don't have that. Russia refuses to supply. This could get ugly. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst Shocked

    Novorussian army also have America supplied counter battery radar. They captured it in Debaltsevo.

    That was a small counter mortar radar, not the big ones America sent later.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25 - Page 7 US_army_delivered_three_AN-TPQ-48_LCMR_Light_Counter-Mortar_Radar_to_Ukranian_army_640_002

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25 - Page 7 AN_TPQ-36_counterfire_radar_firefinder_weapon_locating_system_United_States_US_American_army_equipment_defence_Industry_004
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    Post  auslander Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm

    Khepesh wrote:VSN reserve moved forward and have rectified the situation.....

    Standard tactic, hold the line thin with sufficient forces to counterattack where needed. Still, useless attrition and we lost some soldiers today.

    Anybody heard of OSCE during the fracas or the now ceaseless bombardments?
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    Post  Resistance Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:28 pm

    This war ends when

    1. Porosheko is killed by a Russian air strike

    or

    2. every Ukrainian is killed in Donbas
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    Post  Khepesh Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:43 pm

    Choose which of these two accounts you want to believe about the assault on Logvinovo.

    1: Basurin: Paraphrased. At 0700 this morning the enemy attacked supported by three BMP and one BTR. Thanks to skilful actions of LNR People's Militia the enemy was stopped and driven back with the loss of two BMP and one BTR.

    2: All other sources including two accounts from soldiers at the scene: And I throw this all together. This morning at least a battalion tactical group from ukrops 54th Brigade launched attacks towards and around Logvinovo and advanced either four or five km [depending on which account you read] The enemy was subjected to massive artillery fire and hit by a counter attack involving tanks, and according to one source that has been repeated around Russian networks, T-90, but of course that is impossible, is it not, yes, impossible. However, ukrops lost two platoons of T-64BV and an indeterminate amount of other vehicles. ukrops suffered many casualties, potentially in the hundreds. VSN casualties are two dead.

    IMO, it is unbelievable that ukrops attacked with just three BMP and one BTR. I suspect this a deliberate attempt to minimise what happened as it is inconvenient, and Minsk must continue.....

    OSCE is silent, however, the UN representative in Ukraine has stated that he thinks war is imminent.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:02 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Choose which of these two accounts you want to believe about the assault on Logvinovo.

    1: Basurin: Paraphrased. At 0700 this morning the enemy attacked supported by three BMP and one BTR. Thanks to skilful actions of LNR People's Militia the enemy was stopped and driven back with the loss of two BMP and one BTR.

    2: All other sources including two accounts from soldiers at the scene: And I throw this all together. This morning at least a battalion tactical group from ukrops 54th Brigade launched attacks towards and around Logvinovo and advanced either four or five km [depending on which account you read] The enemy was subjected to massive artillery fire and hit by a counter attack involving tanks, and according to one source that has been repeated around Russian networks, T-90, but of course that is impossible, is it not, yes, impossible. However, ukrops lost two platoons of T-64BV and an indeterminate amount of other vehicles. ukrops suffered many casualties, potentially in the hundreds. VSN casualties are two dead.

    IMO, it is unbelievable that ukrops attacked with just three BMP and one BTR. I suspect this a deliberate attempt to minimise what happened as it is inconvenient, and Minsk must continue.....

    OSCE is silent, however, the UN representative in Ukraine has stated that he thinks war is imminent.
    What might constitute a 'battalion tactical group'.
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    Post  franco Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:16 pm

    Poroshenko announced refusal of Ukraine to implement Minsk Agreements
    Wednesday, June 29, 2016 - 14:34

    Kiev will not fulfill the Minsk Agreements and adopt appropriate amendments to the Constitution in this session of the Parliament. It was announced from the rostrum of the Parliament by President of Ukraine Poroshenko on the occasion of the anniversary of the adoption of the Constitution.

    He once again put forward his conditions for the elections in Donbass and the adoption of amendments to the Constitution in the second reading.

    'The complete and lasting ceasefire must be established. Russia, a country-aggressor, country-occupant, should withdraw all its troops, weapons and equipment from the territory of Ukraine. The OSCE special monitoring mission should be given full access to all the uncontrolled territory of Ukraine, as well as to establish a permanent monitoring of the segment of the Ukrainian-Russian state border temporarily out of the Ukrainian control.
    In addition, there is to be a real disarmament of all illegal groups in the area and the establishment of security zones... Only under these conditions I will be ready to appeal to the Verkhovnaya Rada with a call to vote for the amendments in the second reading.
    And I would like to reassure everyone that this will not happen today, or tomorrow, or even on July 4 as some are spreading here such a lie, but only when the previous conditions of security issues are clearly fulfilled,' Poroshenko.


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