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    Syrian Civil War: News #8

    calm
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    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 Empty Re: Syrian Civil War: News #8

    Post  calm Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:09 am

    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClvbCEWUYAA7Ooq
    https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1

    reports of heavy fighting now.

    +

    https://twitter.com/leithfadel/status/746503233275715585
    Like I stated earlier, the east Homs front is a mess. Basically, Russia is saving Palmyra.
    According to local reports, the Islamic State terrorists have captured the imperative village of Huwaysis near the Al-Sha’ar Gas Fields after a violent battle with the Syrian Arab Army’s 18th Tank Division. In addition to capturing Huwaysis, the Islamic State also seized the imperative hilltop of Tal Sawwan, which paved the way for their current assault at Jubb Al-Jarrah tongiht.
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/isis-captures-vital-region-southeast-homs/ | Al-Masdar News


    Islamists launch night offensive in east Hama

    ...targeting the National Defense Forces’ positions at the village of Ramliyah. Following a violent exchange that lasted for nearly an hour, the National Defense Forces withdrew from Ramliyah in order to evade the swarming Islamist rebels.
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/islamists-launch-night-offensive-east-hama/ | Al-Masdar News
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 Clx52J2WgAAQXDJ






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    Vann7


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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:55 am

    Azi wrote:^

    Sorry Vann, this is bullshit!

    Syrian army have enough equiptment, they need more men (capable and courageous)!

    You can easy neutralize a SVBIED with a antique tank, a rpg etc. Mines and booby traps are unknown to SAA? I CAN'T really understand how SVBIED can be a problem for syrian army? Complete incomprehensible to me!!! Even a dozen SVBIED is no excuse. It's a flat desert terrain around Tabqa, you can see a vehicle from uncredible far distance. What the syrian guys thought would come with vehicle and a dustcloud? Nice girls wanna making love with them? They had enough time to react! And they withdrawed not 10 km or so, they withdrawed over 50 km!!! There is no reason for this disaster only poor morale, panic, fear and bad planning.

    And the argument IS attacking at night, artillery should be able to illuminate battlefield at the right moment and some units will have night vision devices! Even not every IS soldier is equipped with night vision googles.


    You obviously didn't saw the video how the Russian spetnaz was killed by a suicide bomber.
    there was a tank and two other vehicles armed with heavy machine guns and all failed to stop the terrorist car. The tank for being old was not very precise on its shooting and was only bombing the sand helping to cover the incomming terrorist/suicide bomber. In the end a single terrorist in a mobile car wiped the Russian spetnaz and many others in a giant explosion.

    And this was only 1 suicide bomber in a fast car ,possibly armored. imagine a wave of many dozens of suicide bombers as was reported in RAQQA?  Obviously you have no clue
    of what is happening in Syria or how dangerous and effective are terrorist tactics ,if you do not have the correct hardware to deal with them.  

    The terrorist also gets a truck and fill it with a ton of tnt , and reinforce the truck with armor to last a little more time before stopped by anti tank weapons. by the time the truck is stopped ,
    it can be too late ,since the explosion shock wave will cover more than 100 meters and any military near that range killed.  

    Anti tanks missiles or RPGs are not the ideal weapon to defeat very fast moving waves of
    suicide bombers ,specially when non accurate artillery is used and miss and only helps to cover
    the advancing terrorist ,helping them to get closer.  then you have the problem of not knowing
    who is targeting who , So not more than one is aiming at the same target.

    You need automatic targeting,computer guided, guns of high caliber 30mm to 100mm to target such terrorist attacks , ideally in a targeting network ,where a central unit automatically assign
    the targets for each tank or armored vehicle to hit with its cannon.  The speed of direct fire high caliber guns ,combined with automatic computer aided targeting is the ideal way to deal with waves of fast moving terrorist that needs to be killed very fast before they reach your zone.

    Syrian army have nothing of that in RAQQA..  a T-90 or modern T-72b3 can do it  but is not enough ,but you need at least a dozen of them , to target a massive wave of suicide bombers carrying a lot of TNT ,that could be moving in motorbikes or is small armored vehicles towards their direction.

    Simply Syrian army is not properly armed to deal with such kind of attacks and PERIOD.
    the dead of a Russian spetnaz and filmed on camera how he died proof my point. 3-4 armored cards with 22mm guns and with an old tank and a spetnaz were unable to stop a single terrorist car moving in their direction.  

    The terrorist are even using chemical weapons provided by Turkey dropped from artillery. and Syrian army is not prepared either for that. have no anti chemical weapon gear. and to make things worse Syrian army had no close air support ,like attack hellicopters. lol  Simply Syria army does not have the military hardware to deal with such kind of very unusual tactics. you need strong close air support that can evade terrorist provided stinger missiles .Which Syria do not have. Only Russian airforce have that. but Russia small airforce was reduced to a dozen of planes. that can't be in every part of Syria at same time.  

    A permanent strong close air support that can wipe waves of terrorist and defeat manpads ,supporting ground troops , is required for that. or at least a strong modern armored infantry
    with precision direct fire support ,will do the job too.  either a dozen of Mi-28/mi-35 or a dozen of t-90 with automatic targeting, can do that job , or better to have both.  The use of non precision weapons like artillery or mortars ,that are mostly useful against static targets or slow moving ones , will only help cover the terrorist advance with the dust and smoke they create.

    and the fact that ISIS are using NATO provided Chemical weapons cannot be ignored either.
    So before judging Syrian army , "incompetence" go and see first what kind of equipment they are using and the tactics NATO and middle east allies in cooperation with ISIS use. A Russian spetnaz was killed by just one suicide bomber ,and i dont see anyone saying Russia incompetence.  then how are we going to judge Syrian army when it cannot fight waves of them
    in combination with chemical attacks?  Simply ,Syrian army is not properly armed to fight the best armed terrorist and counter its massive suicide tactics ,without too much casualties on their side .

    Russia needs to properly arm the Syrian army or at least provide very strong close air support
    and precision bombing ,similar to the one they used in Palmyra if they want Syrian army to capture RAqqa.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:47 am

    ^ @Vann7

    A 7 kg anti tank mine or a off-route mine would blow a SVBIED in thousand pieces. It's no miracle to fortify a defense line! Cars, SVBIED, whatever are driving only over streets fast, in desert terrain the speed is massive reduced, so enough time to react. A SVBIED in confusing terrain is a problem, but not in flat desert!

    The problem is syrian army has not enough men to fulfill all the tasks a modern army must. After taking a oilfield, crossing or a village it's not time to make selfies and relax, after that the work beginns, with digging trenches, laying mines, giving tanks cover and camouflage.

    The time of my one year military duty in german army (armored pioneer), it was my only task to fortify positions, streets and bottlenecks, especially with DM-12 PARM 1. If i see how syrian army works I can only shake my head!!! But I understand why the syrian army is so bad at moment, it is like franco said "5 years of civil war will do that".

    Russian bombs can help SAA, but the cost-benefit factor is soo negative that Russia can even direct burn their money! Ceasefire was the best option for SAA, it should give the SAA the time for consolidation, but some idiotic generals and politician in Damascus thought, that they can now win the whole war with russian help. Russian help was only to avoid complete collapsing of Baath Syria, they gave Damascus a chance to survive. There was a secret papaer from USA before russian engagement, that syrian army would collapse complete until summer 2016. Before some people here writing Putin bla, bla... the russians bla, bla... Russia helped Baath Syria to survive and with ceasefire they opened the door for the consolidation of syrian army, but some peolple won't understand.

    Syria can and will win this war!!! But not now, in a few years maybe. No hurry to waste the life of young soldiers and create unnecessary tragedies. Tanks don't grow on trees, they must be produced and cost a lot of money! I hear a lot of bla, bla form Iranian side...why Iran is not buying 100 T-90 for Syria and taking them after war back to Iran? Instead they are buying hundreds of planes for billions of dollar from Airbus and Boeing. They should set the priorities right! China, India...? What are they doing? NOTHING! Russia showed real eggs as it intervened last year, don't forget!
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:03 am

    Azi wrote:^ @Vann7

    A 7 kg anti tank mine or a off-route mine would blow a SVBIED in thousand pieces. It's no miracle to fortify a defense line! Cars, SVBIED, whatever are driving only over streets fast, in desert terrain the speed is massive reduced, so enough time to react. A SVBIED in confusing terrain is a problem, but not in flat desert!

    The problem is syrian army has not enough men to fulfill all the tasks a modern army must. After taking a oilfield, crossing or a village it's not time to make selfies and relax, after that the work beginns, with digging trenches, laying mines, giving tanks cover and camouflage.

    The time of my one year military duty in german army (armored pioneer), it was my only task to fortify position, streets and bottlenecks, especially with DM-12 PARM 1. If i see how syrian army works I can only shake my head!!! But I understand why the syrian army is so bad at moment, it is like franco said "5 years of civil war will do that".

    Russian bombs can help SAA, but the cost-benefit factor is soo negative that Russia can even direct burn their money! Ceasefire was the best option for SAA, it should give the SAA the time for consolidation, but some idiotic generals and politician in Damascus thought, that they can now win the whole war with russian help. Russian help was only to avoid complete collapsing of Baath Syria, they gave Damascus a chance to survive. There was a secret papaer from USA before russian engagement, that syrian army would collapse complete until summer 2016. Before some people here writing Putin bla, bla... the russians bla, bla... Russia helped Baath Syria to survive and with ceasefire they opened the door for the consolidation of syrian army, but some peolple won't understand.

    Syria can and will win this war!!! But not now, in a few years maybe. No hurry to waste the life of young soldiers and create unnecessary tragedies.

    Again you show no understanding of the problem.
    A mine ? are you serious? you cannot deploy mines if later you will need to travel over that place.   Mines are for defense to secure and hold a position. But the Syrian army was in Offense moving towards Raqqa. So you cannot use mines.  how will that work?  you tell the terrorist to not move . so you deploy the mine. and then take distance and tell him to step over that particular place in the desert  ?  Rolling Eyes

    Syria army neither had Smerch artillery with mines charges ,that im aware ,is neither ideal to deploy mines if you later have the risk to step over them since you are advancing and not defending a zone. Or if you need to retreat fast ,you could end stepping in your own mines.
    Mines are simply to keep enemy at distance permanently and Syrian army is doing the opposite trying to get closer to their capital.  Simply Syrian army needs close air support from Russia on a permanent base whenever it wants to capture a strong defended place. or at very least ,Russia should provide Syrian army with a couple of dozen of T-72b3 tanks with automatic precision targeting ,to stop any wave of terrorist. and if possible with active defenses like arena or shtora to counter TOW missiles or and top attacks. Syria army is not properly armed and i doubt IRAN can do any difference without too much casualties, Since dont think they have modern tanks or could provide close air support either ,that can evade manpads.

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    Post  Resistance Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:42 am

    Terrorists captured a town near Hama city last night. NDF simply run away. If Russia does not send ground forces, Hama city will soon be lost.
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    Post  Azi Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:48 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Again you show no understanding of the problem.
    A mine ? are you serious? you cannot deploy mines if later you will need to travel over that place.   Mines are for defense to secure and hold a position. But the Syrian army was in Offense moving towards Raqqa. So you cannot use mines.  how will that work?  you tell the terrorist to not move . so you deploy the mine. and then take distance and tell him to step over that particular place in the desert  ?  Rolling Eyes

    Syria army neither had Smerch artillery with mines charges ,that im aware ,is neither ideal to deploy mines if you later have the risk to step over them since you are advancing and not defending a zone. Or if you need to retreat fast ,you could end stepping in your own mines.
    Mines are simply to keep enemy at distance permanently and Syrian army is doing the opposite trying to get closer to their capital.  Simply Syrian army needs close air support from Russia on a permanent base whenever it wants to capture a strong defended place. or at very least ,Russia should provide Syrian army with a couple of dozen of T-72b3 tanks with automatic precision targeting ,to stop any wave of terrorist. and if possible with active defenses like arena or shtora to counter TOW missiles or and top attacks. Syria army is not properly armed and i doubt IRAN can do any difference without too much casualties, Since dont think they have modern tanks or could provide close air support either ,that can evade manpads.

    In understand clearly the problem!

    You need in case of emergancy a fortified position for retreat. This point was the junction south of Tabaqah at highway 42. They had enough time to fortify the position, i think over a week. For a mine barrier you lay three lines of mines, the first one loose and the last one dense. Many positions are open (without anti-tank mines), this "streets" normally 20-40 m wide are secured with off-route mines and normally not only with one. To secure the area complete will take a few days. For a good fortification you need also walls, trenches, and barbed wire (takes a lot of time and you need buldozers!). Many people underestimate barbed wirde, but it's the easiest and cheapest way to stop tracked vehicles. Also very effective is funnel-explosion to have many crates and give a flat terrain structure. You have sooo many options to secure a terrain. Have a look at Deir ez-Zor!!! Why IS is not able to overrun this enclave? Because its good fortified!

    By the way...modern mines are only activated for a time and are not dangerous until the end of time! If you are retreating and stepping in its own mines...Sorry! Suspect pwnd

    For laying mines you need only a good truck, nothing more! Normally pioneers are acting direct behind the frontline, so thats no excuse! I have seen how "effective" SAA and allies was in defending of al-Eis and Co. If the territory in West-Aleppo was so well defended with mines and Co. how was al-Nusra able to sweep out government forces so easy with a handful of old BMPs?

    We are discussing here now the theme of defending positions, not the theme of unlucky offensive! SAA and allies have lost 50 km to IS, but the SDF are able to encircle Manbij!? SDF have T-90 and fancy equiptment?


    Last edited by Azi on Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Azi Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:57 am

    Resistance wrote:Terrorists captured a town near Hama city last night. NDF simply run away. If Russia does not send ground forces, Hama city will soon be lost.
    Russia will for sure send ground forces, if Syria joins the Russian Federation! yes sir

    lol!
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    Post  KiloGolf Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:14 am

    calm wrote:Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClvbCEWUYAA7Ooq
    https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1

    reports of heavy fighting now.

    +

    https://twitter.com/leithfadel/status/746503233275715585
    Like I stated earlier, the east Homs front is a mess. Basically, Russia is saving Palmyra.
    According to local reports, the Islamic State terrorists have captured the imperative village of Huwaysis near the Al-Sha’ar Gas Fields after a violent  battle with the Syrian Arab Army’s 18th Tank Division. In addition to capturing Huwaysis, the Islamic State also seized the imperative hilltop of Tal Sawwan, which paved the way for their current assault at Jubb Al-Jarrah tongiht.
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/isis-captures-vital-region-southeast-homs/ | Al-Masdar News


    Islamists launch night offensive in east Hama

    ...targeting the National Defense Forces’ positions at the village of Ramliyah. Following a violent exchange that lasted for nearly an hour, the National Defense Forces withdrew from Ramliyah in order to evade the swarming Islamist rebels.
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/islamists-launch-night-offensive-east-hama/ | Al-Masdar News
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 Clx52J2WgAAQXDJ

    So IS managed to defeat an SAA tank division and NDF "withdrew to avoid swarming".
    SAA keeps delivering, week after week angry
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    Post  calm Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:38 am

    So called new syria army.

    No comment...
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClyxBtOXIAADTA9

    More.
    NSyA with a Remington XM2010 equipped with AN/PAS-13 LWTS (Light Weapon Thermal Sight)
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClFfv_JWYAAgr79
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClFfwK4WAAA0hzh




    Another Steyr SSG 69 in Syria, this used by IS in Manbij, note rangefinder, position inside the room and dope card
    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 CllVfB_WAAAjh1v


    Last edited by calm on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  calm Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:52 am

    SAA somewhere in Aleppo, trying to cut Castillo...

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    Post  calm Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:58 am

    KiloGolf wrote:So IS managed to defeat an SAA tank division and NDF "withdrew to avoid swarming".
    SAA keeps delivering, week after week angry

    And more...
    #IS take control of Tel Sawan, Huwaysis village as well as SyriaTell hill between #Tadmor silos & Talilah after clashes with #SAA

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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:41 am

    calm wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:So IS managed to defeat an SAA tank division and NDF "withdrew to avoid swarming".
    SAA keeps delivering, week after week angry

    And more...
    #IS take control of Tel Sawan, Huwaysis village as well as SyriaTell hill between #Tadmor silos & Talilah after clashes with #SAA

    lol1

    Time for some disciplinary friendly fire on SAA courtesy of VKS. Those morons are setting new standards when it comes to incompetence. Honestly SAA are without a doubt the biggest pussies to ever wear a uniform.

    Best thing to do now is to arrange for Assad to slip in the shower and break his neck, detach Latakia as independent state and leave rest of it to Iran to provide us with a week or two of comedy before they get permanently sodomized and then just let whole thing burn.
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    Post  VladimirSahin Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:So IS managed to defeat an SAA tank division and NDF "withdrew to avoid swarming".
    SAA keeps delivering, week after week angry

    And more...
    #IS take control of Tel Sawan, Huwaysis village as well as SyriaTell hill between #Tadmor silos & Talilah after clashes with #SAA

    lol1

    Time for some disciplinary friendly fire on SAA courtesy of VKS. Those morons are setting new standards when it comes to incompetence. Honestly SAA are without a doubt the biggest pussies to ever wear a uniform.

    Best thing to do now is to arrange for Assad to slip in the shower and break his neck, detach Latakia as independent state and leave rest of it to Iran to provide us with a week or two of comedy before they get permanently sodomized and then just let whole thing burn.

    Come on Papadragon that's a bit too far, the conflict in Syria is not the usual, stuff happens. Aleppo is going to be bombed to hell they already started overnight, once Aleppo and East Ghouta is free'd up that's when the SAA will shine. Plus Hezbollah is here to the rescue, and the SAA and bros are near to starting the Aleppo OP I'd give it some more time if I were you.
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    Post  KiloGolf Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Best thing to do now is to arrange for Assad to slip in the shower and break his neck, detach Latakia as independent state and leave rest of it to Iran to provide us with a week or two of comedy before they get permanently sodomized and then just let whole thing burn.

    Agreed. Latakia+Tartous are prime real estate, Putin better cash his chips and leave the table.
    If something doesn't change significantly this summer, Syria is a lost cause.

    Oh goodie, more inspired photos of SAA retardation + rifle on the ground like a boss lol1

    Syrian Civil War: News #8 - Page 25 ClvYhbBWMAIbhTv



    Last edited by KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:54 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    calm wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:So IS managed to defeat an SAA tank division and NDF "withdrew to avoid swarming".
    SAA keeps delivering, week after week angry

    And more...
    #IS take control of Tel Sawan, Huwaysis village as well as SyriaTell hill between #Tadmor silos & Talilah after clashes with #SAA

    lol1

    Time for some disciplinary friendly fire on SAA courtesy of VKS. Those morons are setting new standards when it comes to incompetence. Honestly SAA are without a doubt the biggest pussies to ever wear a uniform.

    Best thing to do now is to arrange for Assad to slip in the shower and break his neck, detach Latakia as independent state and leave rest of it to Iran to provide us with a week or two of comedy before they get permanently sodomized and then just let whole thing burn.

    Come on Papadragon that's a bit too far, the conflict in Syria is not the usual, stuff happens. Aleppo is going to be bombed to hell they already started overnight, once Aleppo and East Ghouta is free'd up that's when the SAA will shine. Plus Hezbollah is here to the rescue, and the SAA and bros are near to starting the Aleppo OP I'd give it some more time if I were you.

    Dont waste your time with that Moron , he thinks fighting NATO by proxy with endless waves of terrorist they support with weapons and logistics ,is something that can be done if you have
    "competent" military. But what about the Russian army? 11 killed already ,are they not competent?  LOL   what an idiot he is.  the last kill was by a suicide bomber. Is easy to talk for
    fools about military strategy when they understand nothing of the basics in military. @PapaDragon is sounding more like Ultron on its most hysteric times ,lately. lol1




    Terrorists captured a town near Hama city last night. NDF simply run away. If Russia does not send ground forces, Hama city will soon be lost.


    A town ? there are a thousands of towns in Hama district , last time i saw ,most of hama was under Syrian army control and terrorist encircled there ,but sometime ago that was.a town is not going to make much difference.



    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  KiloGolf Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:02 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Dont waste your time with that Moron , he thinks fighting NATO by proxy with endless waves of terrorist they support with weapons and logistics ,is something that can be done if you have
    "competent" military. But what about the Russian army? 11 killed already ,are they not competent?  LOL   what an idiot he is.  the last kill was by a suicide bomber. Is easy to talk for
    fools about military strategy when they understand nothing of the basics in military. @PapaDragon is sounding more like Ultron on its most hysteric times ,lately. lol1  

    Easy on the language. You disagree, are you a moron perhaps? Don't think so.
    The 11 Russian's killed are not proof of SAA competence (or lack thereof). SAA incompetence is the proof. And basics of military can only get you that far when the leadership and commanders have no idea what they're doing. You can be a CQB wonder-infantryman BTDT mamba Bajamba and yet your unit or team can be compromised by moronic orders, lack of supplies and no intel.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:36 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Dont waste your time with that Moron , he thinks fighting NATO by proxy with endless waves of terrorist they support with weapons and logistics ,is something that can be done if you have
    "competent" military. But what about the Russian army? 11 killed already ,are they not competent?  LOL   what an idiot he is.  the last kill was by a suicide bomber. Is easy to talk for
    fools about military strategy when they understand nothing of the basics in military. @PapaDragon is sounding more like Ultron on its most hysteric times ,lately. lol1  

    Easy on the language. You disagree, are you a moron perhaps? Don't think so.
    The 11 Russian's killed are not proof of SAA competence (or lack thereof). SAA incompetence is the proof. And basics of military can only get you that far when the leadership and commanders have no idea what they're doing. You can be a CQB wonder-infantryman BTDT mamba Bajamba and yet your unit or team can be compromised by moronic orders, lack of supplies and no intel.

    Russia have not properly helping Syrian army with its limited airforce, this is the reason of the casualties of even their own soldiers.  Neither is properly arming the Syrian army to counter waves of suicide bombers.  The last kill on Russian spetnaz ,if you see the video ,you could see clearly see how 1 terrorist ,wiped a dozen of people , including an spetnaz soldier.
    and Russian soldier life ,that could have been saved had they were properly armed to deal with suicide bombers. The spetnaz was even using a civilian pickup as cover and a regular assault rifle to stop a probably armored terrorist car charging to their positions.   No

    The war in Syria is very difficult one , almost all countries at Syrian borders are supplying
    terrorist with weapons and logistics . then you have Russia ,allowing NATO airforce to fly over Syria ,spying for the terrorist ,supplying them intelligence to know were to attack the Syrian army. This is not mentioning how Turkey army artillery strikes at Syrian army positions cross borders in aleppo.  is not an easy war ,and Russia incompetence in preparing the Syrian army
    to fight NATO is part of the problem. Syrian army is full of obsolete tanks and hardware. you cannot win a war with 4-5  t-90 tanks and they spread across all Syria. Russia even allowed
    a T-90 to be captured.  no air support to stop the tank to be captured, So who is the incompetence here?  is not an easy war ,plain and simple. if it was easy , then Russian soldiers spetnaz who work behind enemy lines will not be killed every month.

    how about the Russian plane shut down near turkey border? Syrian army incompetence too?  No  or how about the rescue operations of their soldiers. Russian killed ? Syrian army too to blame?  I know the Syrian army is not at the level of any NATO army ,but Sorry folks ,all this blaming to Syria only ,  is too much fanboyism . i support Russia ,but we need to get real , Russia is playing a game with Americans in Syria. pretending to not know that Americans and terrorist are not in the same side. and its very limited air support to Syria is not enough to stop NATO proxy fighters. is as simple as that. Russia needs to return to the last year level of air support if wants to keep the pace with increased military support than NATO countries like
    US/Turkey,Israel,Saudi Arabia,Jordan are giving to terrorist to fight Syria.

    lavrov says ,it "seems" Americans wants to protect Alqaeda to fight Syria. no no . it doesnt seem, it is what is happening. Syria face a war by proxy of NATO major powers and middle east allies and this was even told by Hungary prime minister. so keep in mind always that.
    before saying "that Syrian army is the "worse army" in the world. " even thought was fighting
    alone for 5 years against the terrorist and holding. Papadragon forgets how Serbia gave up
    fighting NATO in just a small time ,when NATO was arming terrorist to fight them and could not control its airspace, while Syria hold for 4 years NATO away of it. So lets be fair and be real .
    Not unrealistic. Syria is not facing an easy war. and Russia support is limited.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  KiloGolf Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:01 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Russia have not properly helping Syrian army with its limited airforce, this is the reason of the casualties of even their own soldiers.  Neither is properly arming the Syrian army to counter waves of suicide bombers.  The last kill on Russian spetnaz ,if you see the video ,you could see clearly see how 1 terrorist ,wiped a dozen of people , including an spetnaz soldier.
    and Russian soldier life ,that could have been saved had they were properly armed to deal with suicide bombers. The spetnaz was even using a civilian pickup as cover and a regular assault rifle to stop a probably armored terrorist car charging to their positions.   No

    He is an adviser and he's embedded with the SAA unit.
    He's making use what's in that unit. Don't judge him as if his platoon is there deployed and operating with him.

    Vann7 wrote:The war in Syria is very difficult one , almost all countries at Syrian borders are supplying
    terrorist with weapons and logistics . then you have Russia ,allowing NATO airforce to fly over Syria ,spying for the terrorist ,supplying them intelligence to know were to attack the Syrian army. This is not mentioning how Turkey army artillery strikes at Syrian army positions cross borders in aleppo.  is not an easy war ,and Russia incompetence in preparing the Syrian army
    to fight NATO is part of the problem. Syrian army is full of obsolete tanks and hardware. you cannot win a war with 4-5  t-90 tanks and they spread across all Syria. Russia even allowed
    a T-90 to be captured.  no air support to stop the tank to be captured, So who is the incompetence here?  is not an easy war ,plain and simple. if it was easy , then Russian soldiers spetnaz who work behind enemy lines will not be killed every month.

    Russia allowed the T-90 to be captured? really?

    Vann7 wrote:how about the Russian plane shut down near turkey border? Syrian army incompetence too?  No  or how about the rescue operations of their soldiers. Syrian army too to blame?
    Sorry folks but this is too much fanboyism . i support Russia ,but we need to
    get real , Russia military have also committing serious mistakes too. that are costing not only Syrian army lives but their own soldiers too.

    I've been among the strongest critics of the Russian CSAR operation. Russians do make mistakes, as Americans did in Afghanistan (getting an entire air base assaulted by Taliban and destroying many USMC Harriers on the ground). We all make mistakes, especially when at war.

    They key question is how are these mistakes translated on the battlefield?
    After the Su-24 incident, Latakia was cleaned and sweeped by RuAF empowered SAA and the Turkomans were erased from the map.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:14 pm

    Thank you Kilo regarding about trying to put truth to him. But don't bother, we all have tried it multiple of times and we get same results. Better to just add him to ignore.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:24 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:...........................
    lol1
    Time for some disciplinary friendly fire on SAA courtesy of VKS. Those morons are setting new standards when it comes to incompetence. Honestly SAA are without a doubt the biggest pussies to ever wear a uniform.

    Best thing to do now is to arrange for Assad to slip in the shower and break his neck, detach Latakia as independent state and leave rest of it to Iran to provide us with a week or two of comedy before they get permanently sodomized and then just let whole thing burn.

    Come on Papadragon that's a bit too far, the conflict in Syria is not the usual, stuff happens. Aleppo is going to be bombed to hell they already started overnight, once Aleppo and East Ghouta is free'd up that's when the SAA will shine. Plus Hezbollah is here to the rescue, and the SAA and bros are near to starting the Aleppo OP I'd give it some more time if I were you.

    As far as I am concerned they can take all the time they need, no hair off my back. I am not the one whose head is on the chopping block.

    My only gripe is that while they horse around, Russian troopers (only competent fighters in this mess) are getting killed because of local idiots. Just pull them back to safety and SAA can take as much time as they want.

    As for Aleppo, the whole thing would have been over long ago but Syrians wanted to commit ritual suicide for some reason by prancing into Raqqua.

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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:31 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    They key question is how are these mistakes translated on the battlefield?
    After the Su-24 incident, Latakia was cleaned and sweeped by RuAF empowered SAA and the Turkomans were erased from the map.

    Every army commit mistakes , NATO /Russia. but when you combine that with not the right
    military hardware for the war. then the casualties will be high. You cannot win a war with
    3 or 4 T-90 tanks. Russia should either provide always close air support to Syrian army or
    give the Syrian army ~50 new T-72 tanks to capture cities.  or repair/upgrade the ones they have. ideally create a T-72 factory in Syria ,where not only repaired but also can be build by Syrian army ,and they provide all the work force .. it doesn't need to be new. but they need to have modern electronics and precision targeting too ,to deal with fast moving terrorist and suicide bombers.  This is usually the tactic Terrorist use to penetrate any strong defense and make Syrian army retreat. is very effective and there is not much you can do ,to face it ,without to much casualties ,if you dont have the right hardware. So this is why Syrian army preffers to retreat, they have not many soldiers left after 5 years fighting alone.

    now they also chemical weapons heavily ,courtesy of NATO ,not surprising. Syria army is not prepared to fight that kind of fights. no anti chemical gear either. and people expect miracles of Syrian army ,without much hardware to fighting under such challenges.  No

    and to make things even more harder ,Russia have a Rules of Engagement with Americans
    (to avoid a direct confrontation with Americans) that do not allow Syrian army to fight Alqaeda in Aleppo for weeks.  Suspect  So they have to be a punching bag of Alqaeda artillery attacks.  
    This is the way i see it. Syria is fighting nothing less than NATO by proxy with their backed terrorist.

    Syria is fighting a NATO proxy war and NATO role in Syria is nothing more than to make it more difficult for Syrian army to defeat the head choppers they call moderates ,and are Alqaeda and ISIS.  There have been reports of ISIS Trading territory with Kurds in IRAQ with a shake of hands and later they NATO use for propaganda as "liberation"  ,the zone naturally is never returned back to IRAQ. So the major annexation of lands is happening under everyone noses.
    by Kurds from Syria and IRAQ. and ISIS and Alqaeda are used in the game for that.

    Russia cannot discard its support to Kurds because it can be used against Turkey too.
    So people should be always very skeptic of this support of Americans fighting ISIS ,is not happening. If obama wanted to stop ISIS ,he will simply sanction erdogan and demand him to stop its aid to terrorism and supplies to ALqaeda and ISIS as condition to lift the sanctions. but he dont do that. and play games in Syria and IRAQ to make it look they "fighting ISIS".

    Kurds are also playing a double game. Is not surprise that Kurds is the only Faction in Syria and IRAQ that have been gaining a lot of territory and never losing much from ISIS No  
    Is not that they fight better.. is simply that Americans/Saudis have a plan to create a Kurdistan and that ISIS is not allowed to fight Kurds by them. Isis follows orders from US and Saudis . At  times ISIS fight kurds at the calls of Turkey. which do not support Kurds . But ISIS goal is not to defeat  Kurds ,instead Syrian army. This is why Kurds do better than Syrian army. because they are part of the game of Americans to disband Syria.  RAqqa was captured by stealth ,in one day ,ISIS made a deal with Kurds and were allowed to cross freely through its zones with weapons and armor to capture Raqqa. While the Syrian army was busy encircling Aleppo.

    So even though Kurds are "neutral" ,they have backstabbed Syrian army many times. Russia own reports of Erdogan oil routes to raqqa,shows ISIS oil trucks using Kurds zones to enter in Turkey. No  

    So is not an easy war. Anyone downplaying the conflict as Syria fighting just rebels ,understand nothing of it. Syrian army is fighting almost all Border Nations ,Turkey,Israel ,Jordan + NATO major powers help.  and only Hezbolah,IRAN and Russia helping them ,with Russia and Iran limited support. Iraq cannot help Syria since is busy fighting ISIS but just like Syria Americans are there playing games too ,arming both sides. So the war never ends. according to some journalist in Syria ,the command center of ISIS is in Turkey NATO base. American Pentagon Generals leading the fight of all terrorist ,and Unmarked planes from US send terrorist from all over the world ,to that base ,where they get some extra training ,weapons and later sent to Syria to fight.  

    So to really defeat ISIS ,capturing Raqqa will not be enough , because they can retreat to Turkey and return with help of Kurds. and Turkey ,Jordan and Israel can continue sending more.
    To end the war ,Americans or at least Turkey needs to be exposed and stopped of what they are doing by political pressure/sanctions.for helping terrorism. probably this is the reason why Russia try to freeze the conflict otherwise Russia will end 10 years in Syria , with NATO and Saudi Arabia sending unlimited waves of terrorist from all over the world.  However money will not be unlimited. So the war cannot last forever. at some point the economic cost will break US and Turkey and Saudis financing. if Russia and Syria manage to hold and do not allow ISIS or Alqaeda to advance much or create any zone that could be developed ,instead a zone that will be a failed state ,that will die without economic support.
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    Post  Solncepek Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:33 pm

    ПУТИН СЛИЛ!
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    Post  KiloGolf Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:45 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    They key question is how are these mistakes translated on the battlefield?
    After the Su-24 incident, Latakia was cleaned and sweeped by RuAF empowered SAA and the Turkomans were erased from the map.

    Every army commit mistakes , NATO /Russia. but when you combine that with not the right
    military hardware for the war. then the casualties will be high. You cannot win a war with
    3 or 4 T-90 tanks.

    Why isn't T-72B with/without ERA not the right hardware? Syria has still many of them as it is.
    Also there's no evidence to suggest  SAA has so many competent crews but lack of tanks. There's evidence it's both. So shipping in tanks won't do any good.


    Vann7 wrote:Russia should either provide always close air support to Syrian army

    They do, just not on every front. SyAAF needs to pull its weight.

    Vann7 wrote:give the Syrian army ~50 new T-72 tanks to capture cities.  or repair/upgrade the ones they have. ideally create a T-72 factory in Syria ,where not only repaired but also can be build by Syrian army ,and they provide all the work force .. it doesn't need to be new. but they need to have modern electronics and precision targeting too ,to deal with fast moving terrorist and suicide bombers.

    There are enough tanks as it is in Syria, 50 more will make little difference and won't address the issue (SAA personnel suck). A competent gunner either with a T-72 or T-90 or even T-55 can eliminate a pickup truck doing 60 mph on open dessert. If not at 1 mile away, definitely half a mile away.


    Vann7 wrote:This is usually the tactic Terrorist use to penetrate any strong defense and make Syrian army retreat. is very effective and there is not much you can do ,to face it ,without to much casualties ,if you dont have the right hardware. So this is why Syrian army preffers to retreat, they have not many soldiers left after 5 years fighting alone.

    Any enemy would assault them, are you implying terrorists prevail because they mastered this unique technique of... assaulting?
    Syrian Army prefers not to fight as it seems. Discipline is low and few are willing to step up in the field.

    Concerning their numbers, I agree it's no enough. But Ghouta or Darraya being rebel-held for 6 years is a disgrace. In the region there are quite enough troops and kit. Just no idea on how to put them to good use.

    Vann7 wrote:now they also chemical weapons heavily ,courtesy of NATO ,not surprising. Syria army is not prepared to fight that kind of fights. no anti chemical gear either. and people expect miracles of Syrian army ,without much hardware to fighting under such challenges.  No

    Not proved by anyone.

    Vann7 wrote:and to make things even more harder ,Russia have a Rules of Engagement with Americans
    (to avoid a direct confrontation with Americans) that do not allow Syrian army to fight Alqaeda in Aleppo for weeks.  Suspect  So they have to be a punching bag of Alqaeda artillery attacks.  
    This is the way i see it. Syria is fighting nothing less than NATO by proxy with their backed terrorist.

    Assad dared to challenge Russia (about controlling all of Syria) so he got it as he deserved there.

    Vann7 wrote:Syria is fighting a NATO proxy war and NATO role in Syria is nothing more than to make it more difficult for Syrian army to defeat the head choppers they call moderates ,and are Alqaeda and ISIS.  There have been reports of ISIS Trading territory with Kurds in IRAQ with a shake of hands and later they NATO use for propaganda as "liberation"  ,the zone naturally is never returned back to IRAQ. So the major annexation of lands is happening under everyone noses.
    by Kurds from Syria and IRAQ. and ISIS and Alqaeda are used in the game for that.

    Everyone there did business with IS, SAA, Assad, NDF included.

    Vann7 wrote:Russia cannot discard its support to Kurds because it can be used against Turkey too.
    So people should be always very skeptic of this support of Americans fighting ISIS ,is not happening. If obama wanted to stop ISIS ,he will simply sanction erdogan and demand him to stop its aid to terrorism and supplies to ALqaeda and ISIS as condition to lift the sanctions. but he dont do that. and play games in Syria and IRAQ to make it look they "fighting ISIS".

    Why are we discussing this? The US agenda or Turkey's are well known.

    Vann7 wrote:Kurds are also playing a double game. Is not surprise that Kurds is the only Faction in Syria and IRAQ that have been gaining a lot of territory and never losing much from ISIS No  

    Never happened. Kurds at some stage in 2013 and 2014 got hammered by IS hard, to near extinction really.

    Vann7 wrote:Is not that they fight better..

    Oh they do fight better than both SAA and NDF. They are young, rural folk and tribal kind of mentality and strong political ideology (YPG).
    Assad side has none of that.

    Vann7 wrote:is simply that Americans/Saudis have a plan to create a Kurdistan and that ISIS is not allowed to fight Kurds by them. Isis follows orders from US and Saudis . At  times ISIS fight kurds at the calls of Turkey. which do not support Kurds . But ISIS goal is not to defeat  Kurds ,instead Syrian army. This is why Kurds do better than Syrian army. because they are part of the game of Americans to disband Syria.  RAqqa was captured by stealth ,in one day ,ISIS made a deal with Kurds and were allowed to cross freely through its zones with weapons and armor to capture Raqqa. While the Syrian army was busy encircling Aleppo.

    Americans are pro-Kurdistan. Saudi/Turkey not at all.
    Kurds are better than Syrian Army because they know how to use a rifle better and act as cohesive units on the battlefield.
    Concerning IS oil, everyone bought it. Turkey mostly, but also Assad to a small extent, out of pure need I might add.

    Vann7 wrote:So is not an easy war. Anyone downplaying the conflict as Syria fighting just rebels ,understand nothing of it. Syrian army is fighting almost all Border Nations ,Turkey,Israel ,Jordan + NATO major powers help.  and only Hezbolah,IRAN and Russia helping them ,with Russia and Iran limited support. Iraq cannot help Syria since is busy fighting ISIS but just like Syria Americans are there playing games too ,arming both sides. So the war never ends. according to some journalist in Syria ,the command center of ISIS is in Turkey NATO base. American Pentagon Generals leading the fight of all terrorist ,and Unmarked planes from US send terrorist from all over the world ,to that base ,where they get some extra training ,weapons and later sent to Syria to fight.

    It's no secret that all sorts of retired general offer such services.
    Same for ex-military NCOs and so on.

    But that's hardly a reason why SAA is getting beaten all over.
    Imagine if they had to deal with the IDF  lol1

    Vann7 wrote:So to really defeat ISIS ,capturing Raqqa will not be enough , because they can retreat to Turkey and return with help of Kurds. and Turkey ,Jordan and Israel can continue sending more.
    To end the war ,Americans or at least Turkey needs to be exposed and stopped of what they are doing by political pressure/sanctions.for helping terrorism. probably this is the reason why Russia try to freeze the conflict otherwise Russia will end 10 years in Syria , with NATO and Saudi Arabia sending unlimited waves of terrorist from all over the world.  However money will not be unlimited. So the war cannot last forever. at some point the economic cost will break US and Turkey and Saudis financing. if Russia and Syria manage to hold and do not allow ISIS or Alqaeda to advance much or create any zone that could be developed ,instead a zone that will be a failed state  ,that will die without economic support.

    So insurgents in Ghouta and Darrya or Rastan/Talbisah pockets go back and forth in Jordan/Turkey? lol!
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:26 pm



    So insurgents in Ghouta and Darrya or Rastan/Talbisah pockets go back and forth in Jordan/Turkey?


    No.. Damascus ,Homs ,Hama all those needs to be 100% liberated ,also Aleppo center city too,
    but not northern Syria or idlib ,until all other zones secured. This means to leave for the last
    the zones More likely Turkey will interfere and fight. and focus in liberating resources and front lines .


    In other news...
    Something completely weird is being told on SyrianPerspective.
    Apparently the Fight in RAQQA by Syrian army ,was just a distraction to pull most ISIS resources from Aleppo into RAQQA. The real target was Aleppo.  A major operation going on
    there with Russia airforce support.  Suspect  This is what some regular blog members
    are saying in Syrianperpective..



    Jim says:
    What about Tabqa airbase?
    It was supposed to fall like two weeks ago innit?


    HASAN says:
    İt was misinformation  Smile


    Xap89 says:
    Jim it was a trap, all the real supporter of Syria were well aware of it. We got the information through special channel a few days ago, that the real target was Aleppo.
    To be notified next time You need to show more support to Syria and President Assad.

    Leroy Tyrone Washington. says:
    Syrian and Russian intelligence at Work Jim , the real attack is going on at Aleppo,
    Taqba was a Ruse to Get CIA and MI6 to draw off "troops" from Aleppo and send them to Raqqah and Taqba, and the Syrians let them pass. Aleppo now can be taken , smart eh? You can tell Bibi about it.
    Back in the Nam , we had a saying- 'if the battle is going according to plan, it's an ambush" The ISIS/Al Queda should have suspected something when they so easily overran the Syrian troops on the way to Taqba. I would have.



    http://syrianperspective.com/2016/06/syrian-army-shutting-last-terrorist-artery-maj-gen-maaher-al-assad-leads-4th-mechanized-armored-division-into-aleppo.html


    Another thing told ,is that the official dateline of Russia for Americans to separate "moderates"
    from Alqaeda. Is over now ,(or withing a day or more to end.) So apparently Russia airforce
    is now bombing in aleppo bombing the so called "moderates" that Kerry dont wanted Russia to bomb.

    I don't know what to think now ,but i always though taking RAQQA ,while Aleppo
    was not liberated and many zones in northen Syria not taken was very risky.
    for spreading too much the forces across a large territory. So if the above information
    is correct then it makes sense. Syria needs to consolidate/clear first center Syria all the way to Damascus and secure Latakia before moving to Raqqa ,which will be a symbolic fight ,because
    if you close the Turkey border in northen Aleppo ,it will effectively close the supply line more or
    less to ISIS , Russia of course pressuring Kurds to not cooperate with ISIS and not allow them
    to cross into Turkey using its zones.

    If Aleppo Liberated, it will free many thousands of Syrian soldiers to fight in another front.

    Damascus ,homs ,hama,palmyra,aleppo and Latakia secured first and reinforced before going too close to Turkey border ,like IDLIB or Northern Syria. RAQQA is pretty much symbolic place.
    the real capital of ISIS is Turkey and any border opened from syria to turkey closed.  
    and the border with Israel and Jordan neither get too close .until all center of Syria and coast secured.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  OminousSpudd Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:41 pm

    Good attempt KiloGolf, but it's a lost cause mate. Tha slim shady Vann7 fanbois a little bit hard on the SAA. Cool

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