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    BTR-80/82A and variants: News

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:41 pm

    There should be space for reloads in the BMP-3 version as well. But not for additional soldiers.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:35 am

    Looking at the size of those missiles I rather doubt there would be room inside the vehicle for reloads. Perhaps saddle mounts on the rear deck of the hull...

    The issue would be the length of the missiles... with only roof hatches and the little side door you couldn't put them in or take them out.

    The BMP-3 with the rear walkway also wouldn't be able to carry spare missiles... the engine is in the back with a narrow walk way over top with a small troop area behind the turret... it simply does not have the rear space like a BMP-1 or BMP-2 with the seats removed which could store long spare missiles.

    You would also need the additional troops to load the missiles... AFAIK in their tubes they are between 40 and 50kgs or so each.

    Strapped to the sides and top of the rear hull you might carry a reload, but a reload vehicle would make more sense... a truck perhaps or a modification of the BTR-87 with the front mounted engine with a rear deck for reload missiles... perhaps with a turret mounted 30mm cannon that could have airburst shells to operate with these vehicles....
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:35 am

    It will be a long way until most of the units will be equipped with Bumerang. Until then the BTR-82 will fill the gaps, just like the BMP-3 forms now the base for new tracked vehicles in supporting roles.

    I don't agree... wheeled vehicles are much quicker and easier to make and much cheaper to operate too, so I rather suspect Boomerang based vehicles will enter service rather quicker and in much larger numbers than the other types.

    I think the BTR-82 and BMP-3 will continue to operate and be produced for export because they are still better than some alternatives or nothing...

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:58 am

    But it will still take years to make them and the first priority is the BMP version. Sosna on BTR-82A can be put into service in the next two years.

    And the russian army wouldn´t buy so much BTR-82A´s if the Bumerang could be supplied in large enough numbers in the next 5 years or so. There is also a new recon version of the BTR-82 in the pipeline.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:28 am

    It is going to be a few years before complete divisions are unified with one vehicle chassis... there are 26-27 different vehicle types that need to be developed to put together a full division, and while some are very similar and many only differ in their turret and hull fittings they wont be putting Armata divisions into service any time soon.

    Perhaps what they will start doing is putting Armata tanks and Armata IFVs in service in a current tank or motor rifle division and gradually replace the non Armata types with Armata based vehicles.

    They will likely do the same with Kurganets and Boomerang divisions too though the tanks in those divisions could remain T-90AMs until more of the vehicles are changed.

    The advantage of having all Boomerang vehicles in a Boomerang division is being able to drive at 90km/h for four hours and then go straight in to battle... not destroying roads and bridges on the way, and not costing a fortune in maintenance.

    While you still have tanks in your unit running at 90km/h would start fires...

    There are going to be priority areas and non priority areas and even in those priority areas there are going to be vehicles that suit and vehicles that don't suit...

    To fight in built up areas then Armata is a good choice but not cheap. To fight in wide open places with good road networks then wheeled vehicles are best, while wet areas with soft ground and not so many roads would suit the Kurganets amphibious tracked vehicles...

    Just like now there will be tank heavy forces and troop heavy forces... both forces will have tanks and both forces will have BMPs, but the infantry forces will have AT components and will have more troops.

    There is a financial cost to replacing all your armour with new armour and it wont be cheap... even the Boomerang have state of the art up to date optics and the guns and fire power of the Armata forces... they trade armour for mobility and reduced weigh... but they aren't 14 ton BTR-80s any more... these are 25 ton vehicles with protection levels better than current BMPs, and more importantly will also have APS systems and NERA and cage armour too when going in to combat...

    You might argue that a Boomerang doens't have the protection of a T-90AM, well that is true , but in a tank division that is 31 tanks or so... the rest of the vehicles are BMP-3 or BTR-80 or BRDM-2 or MTLBu level protection... so a Boomerang division will have 31 less well protected tanks but how many vehicles in a division???? 250? That would be 220 vehicles with better protection than the current tank division... and not just that... fully net centric communications levels, much better mobility... fully amphibious... much faster and much cheaper to operate... and with night vision and communications equipment and guns and ammo every bit as good as the latest T-90AM and as good as any of the newest upgraded other vehicles like the BTR-82 and BMP-3M and BMP-2M etc etc.

    The Kurganets has better armour, and of course the Armata gives all the vehicles in the force tank level armour better than T-90AMs... what is not to like?
    medo
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    Post  medo Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:24 am

    Hole wrote:But it will still take years to make them and the first priority is the BMP version. Sosna on BTR-82A can be put into service in the next two years.

    And the russian army wouldn´t buy so much BTR-82A´s if the Bumerang could be supplied in large enough numbers in the next 5 years or so. There is also a new recon version of the BTR-82 in the pipeline.

    Bumerang in air defense version will not come that quick in armament. Russia now need wheeled air defense complexes to slowly replace old Osa. Sosna with 10 km range is conditionally in this case SHORAD, while Gibka-S is VSHORAD. Practically all russian army SAMs are tracked: Strela-10, Tunguska, Tor, Buk, S-300V. Osa is only wheeled SAM for now as Strela-1 was retired long ago. Russian army need such cheaper and lighter wheeled SAMs to protect logistics and convoys behind the lines (to give basic protection in peace keeping missions as well). Boomerang is bigger and heavier, so it would be better to install actuall SHORAD in it like Pantsir or Tor-M2, to protect wheeled brigades on the battlefield. Of course alternative to BTR-82 could be Typhoon-U or Typhoon-K MRAPs, but they are too high and could be unstable, what mean, they could fire only from short stops. BTR-82 is just fine for that job. It have enough armor and is stable enough to fire on the move.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:49 am

    I agree with Medo.

    Wheeled shorad are needed also to protect some infrastructures from cruise missiles. Russia will never have enough s-400/pantsir/tor because they are quite expensive. There are lot of sensitive stuff to protect but that are less likely to be protected by higher level SAM systems.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:34 am

    BTR-80/82A and variants: News - Page 11 Dhjd3m10
    BTR-80/82A and variants: News - Page 11 Mars2010
    Mars-2000 recon vehicle

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:13 am

    Btr-82AT. The missiles are not kornet but older ones.

    BTR-80/82A and variants: News - Page 11 Egjf5k10

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:03 am

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    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:15 pm

    Modern BTR-82 AMS will be delivered to the Primorye combined arms Association of the VVO

    The motorized rifle units of the combined arms army of the Eastern military district, stationed in the Primorsky and Khabarovsk territories, will receive several dozen of the latest BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers by the end of this year.

    New armored vehicles will be added to the military units of the VVO as part of the re-equipment program for modern models of equipment in 2020.

    BTR-82AM will be used at the combined-arms ranges of the VVO in Primorye already in the winter training period of 2021.

    BTR-82AM, designed to transport units, their fire support in battle, the destruction of manpower, anti-tank weapons and lightly armored vehicles of the enemy. The armored personnel carrier is armed with a 30-mm automatic gun,7, 62-mm machine gun and a night sight.

    NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:34 pm

    franco wrote:NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.  

    What, there are still BMP-1s in service??
    you sure it's not reserve?
    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:54 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    franco wrote:NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.  

    What, there are still BMP-1s in service??
    you sure it's not reserve?

    Yes and they are being upgraded also to BMP-1AM's. There are 12-15 battalions of them still active in the Far East plus possibly 1 battalion in Armenia.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t5778p225-bmp-1-bmp-2-in-russian-army post# 236
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:58 pm

    The 81st Armor Repair Factory (part of Uralvagonzavod defense manufacturer within the state tech corporation Rostec) delivered a batch of upgraded BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers to the troops, the Uralvagonzavod press office told TASS on Tuesday.

    https://tass.com/defense/1235277

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:53 am

    The_Observer
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    Post  The_Observer Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:22 am

    Info on the current and future production of BTR_82A(M)

    Production plans for 2020 were revealed last spring. Then the Ministry of Defense announced that at least 460 armored personnel carriers of two types would arrive in the unit by the end of the year. BTR-82A new construction was expected in the amount of 130 units.

    Some messages about the delivery of the BTR-82A (M) in part have appeared since the beginning of last year. Recent deliveries of more than 100 units. took place already in December. From the available reports, it follows that the plans for the production of 460 armored vehicles were successfully completed. As a result of this, a number of units of different types of troops received improved equipment, while others began operating wheeled armored personnel carriers for the first time.
    BTR-82A - new builds
    BTR-82AM - upgraded from BTR-80 to BTR-82A standard

    https://topwar.ru/180450-rezultaty-proizvodstva-btr-82am.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru

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    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:12 pm

    The IISS 2021 World Military Balance lists 1930 BTR-82A/AM in the Russian Armed Forces. I believe that figure to be short by several hundred. I track 53 battalions (2,000+) operating them, in addition they are used by intelligence, military police, spetsnaz, strategic rocket forces, engineer sapper units and just about everybody else.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:17 am

    And not just APCs, there are lots of BTR based vehicles... many based on older versions with two engines that could be replaced by newer BTRs

    If you want to create variants for carrying missiles and missile reloads a larger side door could be created to allow them to be carried, but equally a reload vehicle could be developed on the basis of the BTR that is lighter and cheaper and simpler and has the engine moved to the front with driver and engine in a cabin at the front and the entire rear of the vehicle a flat deck for missile reloads to be stacked with a light shell of armour protection or just exposed and open... the missiles are protected from the elements by their launch tubes anyway.

    Another option could be the same but with a central turret with a 30mm cannon and a rear deck that could have reload missiles with 30mm ammo in the turret and the area below the turret and the rear deck which could be used for even more 30mm cannon ammo or missile reloads for Sosna with a small crane arm for lifting them in bundles of 6 at a time maybe... or the 30mm cannon ammo on to the vehicle...

    As I mentioned with small roof hatches and crew in the front end and engine in the rear and the small side doors it is not practical to carry long narrow missile tube reloads inside a BTR-82 or a BMP-3 type vehicle, but I think a Tigr version would actually be fine for MANPADS type missiles or ATGMs like Kornet.

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