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There should be space for reloads in the BMP-3 version as well. But not for additional soldiers.
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BTR-80/82A and variants: News
Hole- Posts : 4313
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Join date : 2018-03-24
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GarryB- Posts : 29972
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Looking at the size of those missiles I rather doubt there would be room inside the vehicle for reloads. Perhaps saddle mounts on the rear deck of the hull...
The issue would be the length of the missiles... with only roof hatches and the little side door you couldn't put them in or take them out.
The BMP-3 with the rear walkway also wouldn't be able to carry spare missiles... the engine is in the back with a narrow walk way over top with a small troop area behind the turret... it simply does not have the rear space like a BMP-1 or BMP-2 with the seats removed which could store long spare missiles.
You would also need the additional troops to load the missiles... AFAIK in their tubes they are between 40 and 50kgs or so each.
Strapped to the sides and top of the rear hull you might carry a reload, but a reload vehicle would make more sense... a truck perhaps or a modification of the BTR-87 with the front mounted engine with a rear deck for reload missiles... perhaps with a turret mounted 30mm cannon that could have airburst shells to operate with these vehicles....
The issue would be the length of the missiles... with only roof hatches and the little side door you couldn't put them in or take them out.
The BMP-3 with the rear walkway also wouldn't be able to carry spare missiles... the engine is in the back with a narrow walk way over top with a small troop area behind the turret... it simply does not have the rear space like a BMP-1 or BMP-2 with the seats removed which could store long spare missiles.
You would also need the additional troops to load the missiles... AFAIK in their tubes they are between 40 and 50kgs or so each.
Strapped to the sides and top of the rear hull you might carry a reload, but a reload vehicle would make more sense... a truck perhaps or a modification of the BTR-87 with the front mounted engine with a rear deck for reload missiles... perhaps with a turret mounted 30mm cannon that could have airburst shells to operate with these vehicles....
GarryB- Posts : 29972
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
It will be a long way until most of the units will be equipped with Bumerang. Until then the BTR-82 will fill the gaps, just like the BMP-3 forms now the base for new tracked vehicles in supporting roles.
I don't agree... wheeled vehicles are much quicker and easier to make and much cheaper to operate too, so I rather suspect Boomerang based vehicles will enter service rather quicker and in much larger numbers than the other types.
I think the BTR-82 and BMP-3 will continue to operate and be produced for export because they are still better than some alternatives or nothing...
Hole- Posts : 4313
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But it will still take years to make them and the first priority is the BMP version. Sosna on BTR-82A can be put into service in the next two years.
And the russian army wouldn´t buy so much BTR-82A´s if the Bumerang could be supplied in large enough numbers in the next 5 years or so. There is also a new recon version of the BTR-82 in the pipeline.
And the russian army wouldn´t buy so much BTR-82A´s if the Bumerang could be supplied in large enough numbers in the next 5 years or so. There is also a new recon version of the BTR-82 in the pipeline.
GarryB- Posts : 29972
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Join date : 2010-03-30
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It is going to be a few years before complete divisions are unified with one vehicle chassis... there are 26-27 different vehicle types that need to be developed to put together a full division, and while some are very similar and many only differ in their turret and hull fittings they wont be putting Armata divisions into service any time soon.
Perhaps what they will start doing is putting Armata tanks and Armata IFVs in service in a current tank or motor rifle division and gradually replace the non Armata types with Armata based vehicles.
They will likely do the same with Kurganets and Boomerang divisions too though the tanks in those divisions could remain T-90AMs until more of the vehicles are changed.
The advantage of having all Boomerang vehicles in a Boomerang division is being able to drive at 90km/h for four hours and then go straight in to battle... not destroying roads and bridges on the way, and not costing a fortune in maintenance.
While you still have tanks in your unit running at 90km/h would start fires...
There are going to be priority areas and non priority areas and even in those priority areas there are going to be vehicles that suit and vehicles that don't suit...
To fight in built up areas then Armata is a good choice but not cheap. To fight in wide open places with good road networks then wheeled vehicles are best, while wet areas with soft ground and not so many roads would suit the Kurganets amphibious tracked vehicles...
Just like now there will be tank heavy forces and troop heavy forces... both forces will have tanks and both forces will have BMPs, but the infantry forces will have AT components and will have more troops.
There is a financial cost to replacing all your armour with new armour and it wont be cheap... even the Boomerang have state of the art up to date optics and the guns and fire power of the Armata forces... they trade armour for mobility and reduced weigh... but they aren't 14 ton BTR-80s any more... these are 25 ton vehicles with protection levels better than current BMPs, and more importantly will also have APS systems and NERA and cage armour too when going in to combat...
You might argue that a Boomerang doens't have the protection of a T-90AM, well that is true , but in a tank division that is 31 tanks or so... the rest of the vehicles are BMP-3 or BTR-80 or BRDM-2 or MTLBu level protection... so a Boomerang division will have 31 less well protected tanks but how many vehicles in a division???? 250? That would be 220 vehicles with better protection than the current tank division... and not just that... fully net centric communications levels, much better mobility... fully amphibious... much faster and much cheaper to operate... and with night vision and communications equipment and guns and ammo every bit as good as the latest T-90AM and as good as any of the newest upgraded other vehicles like the BTR-82 and BMP-3M and BMP-2M etc etc.
The Kurganets has better armour, and of course the Armata gives all the vehicles in the force tank level armour better than T-90AMs... what is not to like?
Perhaps what they will start doing is putting Armata tanks and Armata IFVs in service in a current tank or motor rifle division and gradually replace the non Armata types with Armata based vehicles.
They will likely do the same with Kurganets and Boomerang divisions too though the tanks in those divisions could remain T-90AMs until more of the vehicles are changed.
The advantage of having all Boomerang vehicles in a Boomerang division is being able to drive at 90km/h for four hours and then go straight in to battle... not destroying roads and bridges on the way, and not costing a fortune in maintenance.
While you still have tanks in your unit running at 90km/h would start fires...
There are going to be priority areas and non priority areas and even in those priority areas there are going to be vehicles that suit and vehicles that don't suit...
To fight in built up areas then Armata is a good choice but not cheap. To fight in wide open places with good road networks then wheeled vehicles are best, while wet areas with soft ground and not so many roads would suit the Kurganets amphibious tracked vehicles...
Just like now there will be tank heavy forces and troop heavy forces... both forces will have tanks and both forces will have BMPs, but the infantry forces will have AT components and will have more troops.
There is a financial cost to replacing all your armour with new armour and it wont be cheap... even the Boomerang have state of the art up to date optics and the guns and fire power of the Armata forces... they trade armour for mobility and reduced weigh... but they aren't 14 ton BTR-80s any more... these are 25 ton vehicles with protection levels better than current BMPs, and more importantly will also have APS systems and NERA and cage armour too when going in to combat...
You might argue that a Boomerang doens't have the protection of a T-90AM, well that is true , but in a tank division that is 31 tanks or so... the rest of the vehicles are BMP-3 or BTR-80 or BRDM-2 or MTLBu level protection... so a Boomerang division will have 31 less well protected tanks but how many vehicles in a division???? 250? That would be 220 vehicles with better protection than the current tank division... and not just that... fully net centric communications levels, much better mobility... fully amphibious... much faster and much cheaper to operate... and with night vision and communications equipment and guns and ammo every bit as good as the latest T-90AM and as good as any of the newest upgraded other vehicles like the BTR-82 and BMP-3M and BMP-2M etc etc.
The Kurganets has better armour, and of course the Armata gives all the vehicles in the force tank level armour better than T-90AMs... what is not to like?
medo- Posts : 4168
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Hole wrote:But it will still take years to make them and the first priority is the BMP version. Sosna on BTR-82A can be put into service in the next two years.
And the russian army wouldn´t buy so much BTR-82A´s if the Bumerang could be supplied in large enough numbers in the next 5 years or so. There is also a new recon version of the BTR-82 in the pipeline.
Bumerang in air defense version will not come that quick in armament. Russia now need wheeled air defense complexes to slowly replace old Osa. Sosna with 10 km range is conditionally in this case SHORAD, while Gibka-S is VSHORAD. Practically all russian army SAMs are tracked: Strela-10, Tunguska, Tor, Buk, S-300V. Osa is only wheeled SAM for now as Strela-1 was retired long ago. Russian army need such cheaper and lighter wheeled SAMs to protect logistics and convoys behind the lines (to give basic protection in peace keeping missions as well). Boomerang is bigger and heavier, so it would be better to install actuall SHORAD in it like Pantsir or Tor-M2, to protect wheeled brigades on the battlefield. Of course alternative to BTR-82 could be Typhoon-U or Typhoon-K MRAPs, but they are too high and could be unstable, what mean, they could fire only from short stops. BTR-82 is just fine for that job. It have enough armor and is stable enough to fire on the move.
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Isos- Posts : 7666
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I agree with Medo.
Wheeled shorad are needed also to protect some infrastructures from cruise missiles. Russia will never have enough s-400/pantsir/tor because they are quite expensive. There are lot of sensitive stuff to protect but that are less likely to be protected by higher level SAM systems.
Wheeled shorad are needed also to protect some infrastructures from cruise missiles. Russia will never have enough s-400/pantsir/tor because they are quite expensive. There are lot of sensitive stuff to protect but that are less likely to be protected by higher level SAM systems.
Hole- Posts : 4313
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Mars-2000 recon vehicle
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Isos- Posts : 7666
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Btr-82AT. The missiles are not kornet but older ones.
GarryB and medo like this post
George1- Posts : 16369
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Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
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franco- Posts : 4314
Points : 4346
Join date : 2010-08-18
Modern BTR-82 AMS will be delivered to the Primorye combined arms Association of the VVO
The motorized rifle units of the combined arms army of the Eastern military district, stationed in the Primorsky and Khabarovsk territories, will receive several dozen of the latest BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers by the end of this year.
New armored vehicles will be added to the military units of the VVO as part of the re-equipment program for modern models of equipment in 2020.
BTR-82AM will be used at the combined-arms ranges of the VVO in Primorye already in the winter training period of 2021.
BTR-82AM, designed to transport units, their fire support in battle, the destruction of manpower, anti-tank weapons and lightly armored vehicles of the enemy. The armored personnel carrier is armed with a 30-mm automatic gun,7, 62-mm machine gun and a night sight.
NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.
The motorized rifle units of the combined arms army of the Eastern military district, stationed in the Primorsky and Khabarovsk territories, will receive several dozen of the latest BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers by the end of this year.
New armored vehicles will be added to the military units of the VVO as part of the re-equipment program for modern models of equipment in 2020.
BTR-82AM will be used at the combined-arms ranges of the VVO in Primorye already in the winter training period of 2021.
BTR-82AM, designed to transport units, their fire support in battle, the destruction of manpower, anti-tank weapons and lightly armored vehicles of the enemy. The armored personnel carrier is armed with a 30-mm automatic gun,7, 62-mm machine gun and a night sight.
NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.
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AlfaT8- Posts : 2069
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franco wrote:NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.
What, there are still BMP-1s in service??
you sure it's not reserve?
franco- Posts : 4314
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Join date : 2010-08-18
AlfaT8 wrote:franco wrote:NOTE: this is for the 5th Army which up until now has been equipped with BMP-1's and MT-LB's.
What, there are still BMP-1s in service??
you sure it's not reserve?
Yes and they are being upgraded also to BMP-1AM's. There are 12-15 battalions of them still active in the Far East plus possibly 1 battalion in Armenia.
https://www.russiadefence.net/t5778p225-bmp-1-bmp-2-in-russian-army post# 236
George1- Posts : 16369
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The 81st Armor Repair Factory (part of Uralvagonzavod defense manufacturer within the state tech corporation Rostec) delivered a batch of upgraded BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers to the troops, the Uralvagonzavod press office told TASS on Tuesday.
https://tass.com/defense/1235277
https://tass.com/defense/1235277
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Isos- Posts : 7666
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The_Observer- Posts : 81
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Info on the current and future production of BTR_82A(M)
BTR-82AM - upgraded from BTR-80 to BTR-82A standard
https://topwar.ru/180450-rezultaty-proizvodstva-btr-82am.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
BTR-82A - new buildsProduction plans for 2020 were revealed last spring. Then the Ministry of Defense announced that at least 460 armored personnel carriers of two types would arrive in the unit by the end of the year. BTR-82A new construction was expected in the amount of 130 units.
Some messages about the delivery of the BTR-82A (M) in part have appeared since the beginning of last year. Recent deliveries of more than 100 units. took place already in December. From the available reports, it follows that the plans for the production of 460 armored vehicles were successfully completed. As a result of this, a number of units of different types of troops received improved equipment, while others began operating wheeled armored personnel carriers for the first time.
BTR-82AM - upgraded from BTR-80 to BTR-82A standard
https://topwar.ru/180450-rezultaty-proizvodstva-btr-82am.html?utm_source=warfiles.ru
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franco- Posts : 4314
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The IISS 2021 World Military Balance lists 1930 BTR-82A/AM in the Russian Armed Forces. I believe that figure to be short by several hundred. I track 53 battalions (2,000+) operating them, in addition they are used by intelligence, military police, spetsnaz, strategic rocket forces, engineer sapper units and just about everybody else.
GarryB- Posts : 29972
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And not just APCs, there are lots of BTR based vehicles... many based on older versions with two engines that could be replaced by newer BTRs
If you want to create variants for carrying missiles and missile reloads a larger side door could be created to allow them to be carried, but equally a reload vehicle could be developed on the basis of the BTR that is lighter and cheaper and simpler and has the engine moved to the front with driver and engine in a cabin at the front and the entire rear of the vehicle a flat deck for missile reloads to be stacked with a light shell of armour protection or just exposed and open... the missiles are protected from the elements by their launch tubes anyway.
Another option could be the same but with a central turret with a 30mm cannon and a rear deck that could have reload missiles with 30mm ammo in the turret and the area below the turret and the rear deck which could be used for even more 30mm cannon ammo or missile reloads for Sosna with a small crane arm for lifting them in bundles of 6 at a time maybe... or the 30mm cannon ammo on to the vehicle...
As I mentioned with small roof hatches and crew in the front end and engine in the rear and the small side doors it is not practical to carry long narrow missile tube reloads inside a BTR-82 or a BMP-3 type vehicle, but I think a Tigr version would actually be fine for MANPADS type missiles or ATGMs like Kornet.
If you want to create variants for carrying missiles and missile reloads a larger side door could be created to allow them to be carried, but equally a reload vehicle could be developed on the basis of the BTR that is lighter and cheaper and simpler and has the engine moved to the front with driver and engine in a cabin at the front and the entire rear of the vehicle a flat deck for missile reloads to be stacked with a light shell of armour protection or just exposed and open... the missiles are protected from the elements by their launch tubes anyway.
Another option could be the same but with a central turret with a 30mm cannon and a rear deck that could have reload missiles with 30mm ammo in the turret and the area below the turret and the rear deck which could be used for even more 30mm cannon ammo or missile reloads for Sosna with a small crane arm for lifting them in bundles of 6 at a time maybe... or the 30mm cannon ammo on to the vehicle...
As I mentioned with small roof hatches and crew in the front end and engine in the rear and the small side doors it is not practical to carry long narrow missile tube reloads inside a BTR-82 or a BMP-3 type vehicle, but I think a Tigr version would actually be fine for MANPADS type missiles or ATGMs like Kornet.
franco- Posts : 4314
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Join date : 2010-08-18
BTR-82A (M) production results
The serial production of new armored personnel carriers BTR-82A and the modernization of the existing BTR-80 to the state of the BTR-82AM continue. According to the latest news , this year the armed forces will receive several hundred more units of such equipment. It is curious that as a result of these processes, the BTR-82A (M) has already become the most massive vehicle of its class in the Russian army.
Past successes
The BTR-82A (M) armored personnel carrier was officially put into service in 2013, although supplies to the troops were carried out earlier. The production of new armored vehicles of the BTR-82A type was mastered by the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant. In addition, overhaul of the existing BTR-80 with modernization according to the BTR-82AM project is carried out at repair enterprises. The production and modernization of equipment quickly gained the necessary pace and continues to this day.
According to The Military Balance 2020, by the beginning of last year, the ground forces had 1,000 BTR-82A (M) armored personnel carriers. The authors of the reference book counted 661 more vehicles of these types in the coastal troops. The Airborne Forces had only 20 modern armored personnel carriers. At the same time, 1,500 older BTR-80s were present in the army, and 100 such vehicles remained in the coastal troops. The core of the airborne armored personnel carrier fleet was made up of specialized BTR-D and BTR-MDM - more than 780 units in total.
Thus, in just a few years, the army and industry carried out a very large program of massive renewal of armored vehicles. The number of armored personnel carriers of new models and modifications gradually approached the number of old vehicles, which made it possible to more fully realize the qualitative advantages of modern models.
It should be noted that the main contribution to such a renewal of the fleet of armored vehicles is made by the modernization of available vehicles. It is cheaper and easier to build the BTR-82A from scratch, but it allows you to get the same results. In different years, the modernized BTR-82AM accounted for at least 50-60 percent. from the total release of such equipment.
Last year's indicators
Production plans for 2020 were revealed last spring. Then the Ministry of Defense announced that at least 460 armored personnel carriers of two types would arrive in the unit by the end of the year. BTR-82A new construction was expected in the amount of 130 units.
Some messages about the delivery of the BTR-82A (M) in part have appeared since the beginning of last year. Recent deliveries of more than 100 units. took place already in December. From the available reports, it follows that the plans for the production of 460 armored vehicles were successfully completed. As a result of this, a number of units of different types of troops received improved equipment, while others began operating wheeled armored personnel carriers for the first time.
According to the results of last year's deliveries, the total number of BTR-82A (M) in the troops should have reached the level of 2140-2150 units. In 2020, it was planned to repair and rebuild at least 330 BTR-80 from combat units. This means that the number of such vehicles in the original configuration could be reduced to 1300 units. or less. However, in modern BTR-82AM armored vehicles can be rebuilt from storage, which will allow not to reduce the active fleet of BTR-80 and combine quantitative growth with a qualitative upgrade.
Future plans
On February 22, the Ministry of Defense revealed plans for the rearmament of the ground forces for this year. Hundreds of armored combat vehicles of various classes will be purchased. The most popular will be the armored personnel carriers of the latest models - about 300 units. A few days later, the news about the procurement of armored vehicles was repeated, but without much detail. In particular, the shares of completely new and updated equipment are not indicated.
The expected completion of orders for this year will lead to understandable results. The total number of modern BTR-82A (M) will exceed 2400 units, and the number of older BTR-80 may be reduced again. By the end of the year, the units may have less than 1,000 such armored personnel carriers.
Most likely, in the next 2022, the production and modernization of armored vehicles will continue. The volumes of future orders are unknown and, possibly, have not yet been determined, since they must be determined taking into account the result of previous work. At the same time, it is clear what consequences the continuation of the current rearmament program will lead to.
Save and grow
The BTR-82AM project proposes the restructuring of the existing BTR-80 armored vehicle according to a new project with a number of important capabilities. When using equipment from combat units, the BTR-80 is gradually replaced with new BTR-82AM while maintaining the total number - and improving the condition of the park, as well as increasing combat capabilities.
The construction of the BTR-82A is carried out from scratch. Distinguished by greater complexity and cost, it allows you to increase the total number of armored personnel carriers in the army. Such capabilities are used to equip newly created formations or to re-equip existing ones.
For example, in November 2020, the newly formed motorized rifle regiment of the 127th motorized rifle division received three dozen new armored personnel carriers. Later, in December, the re-equipment of three battalions of the 205th separate motorized rifle brigade was completed. Previously, they used MT-LB vehicles, and now they are mastering modern BTR-82s. Without the production of the BTR-82A (M), such processes would at least be difficult and would have limited results.
Benefits obtained
The BTR-82A (M) project offers a deep modernization of the existing BTR-80 armored personnel carrier with the replacement of a number of key units. Due to this, significant advantages are achieved over the basic machine in all main characteristics. However, the BTR-82A (M) is noticeably inferior to promising models that are preparing for adoption.
In the course of modernization, measures were taken to increase the resource of the structure. The increase in weight is compensated by the installation of a new KAMAZ-740.14-300 engine with a power of 300 hp. The same measures allow you to increase mobility and patency.
Much attention is paid to the issues of protection. A new anti-splinter lining has appeared on the armor inside the habitable compartments, designed to complement the hull sheets. Enhanced mine protection is envisaged. In addition, the seats of the crew and the landing party with an energy-absorbing suspension are used. An air conditioner has been introduced to improve working conditions.
BTR-82A (M) receives a turret cannon and machine gun mount with a 30-mm 2A72 cannon and a PKTM machine gun. The installation has a two-plane stabilizer and a combined (day-night) sight TKN-4GA. Such a complex of weapons allows you to obtain high firepower, increased accuracy and the ability to effectively fire at any time of the day.
Quantity and quality
Thus, the BTR-82A (M) project makes it possible to do without the production of fundamentally new equipment, saving time and resources, but at the same time getting a noticeable increase in the main characteristics and capabilities. In addition, there is no need for a lengthy and complex retraining of crews, and the operation processes are simplified.
A similar approach has been implemented over the past few years and has already yielded noticeable results. The total number of BTR-82A (M) gradually approached the number of BTR-80, and then exceeded it. It is expected that the modernization of the fleet of armored vehicles will continue, incl. with the renewal of old armored personnel carriers according to a modern project. It is very likely that in a few years this will completely abandon the outdated BTR-80 and fully use the potential of the modern BTR-82A (M) project.
https://covid36qdxuptbodqslievhsl4--topwar-ru.translate.goog/180450-rezultaty-proizvodstva-btr-82am.html
The serial production of new armored personnel carriers BTR-82A and the modernization of the existing BTR-80 to the state of the BTR-82AM continue. According to the latest news , this year the armed forces will receive several hundred more units of such equipment. It is curious that as a result of these processes, the BTR-82A (M) has already become the most massive vehicle of its class in the Russian army.
Past successes
The BTR-82A (M) armored personnel carrier was officially put into service in 2013, although supplies to the troops were carried out earlier. The production of new armored vehicles of the BTR-82A type was mastered by the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant. In addition, overhaul of the existing BTR-80 with modernization according to the BTR-82AM project is carried out at repair enterprises. The production and modernization of equipment quickly gained the necessary pace and continues to this day.
According to The Military Balance 2020, by the beginning of last year, the ground forces had 1,000 BTR-82A (M) armored personnel carriers. The authors of the reference book counted 661 more vehicles of these types in the coastal troops. The Airborne Forces had only 20 modern armored personnel carriers. At the same time, 1,500 older BTR-80s were present in the army, and 100 such vehicles remained in the coastal troops. The core of the airborne armored personnel carrier fleet was made up of specialized BTR-D and BTR-MDM - more than 780 units in total.
Thus, in just a few years, the army and industry carried out a very large program of massive renewal of armored vehicles. The number of armored personnel carriers of new models and modifications gradually approached the number of old vehicles, which made it possible to more fully realize the qualitative advantages of modern models.
It should be noted that the main contribution to such a renewal of the fleet of armored vehicles is made by the modernization of available vehicles. It is cheaper and easier to build the BTR-82A from scratch, but it allows you to get the same results. In different years, the modernized BTR-82AM accounted for at least 50-60 percent. from the total release of such equipment.
Last year's indicators
Production plans for 2020 were revealed last spring. Then the Ministry of Defense announced that at least 460 armored personnel carriers of two types would arrive in the unit by the end of the year. BTR-82A new construction was expected in the amount of 130 units.
Some messages about the delivery of the BTR-82A (M) in part have appeared since the beginning of last year. Recent deliveries of more than 100 units. took place already in December. From the available reports, it follows that the plans for the production of 460 armored vehicles were successfully completed. As a result of this, a number of units of different types of troops received improved equipment, while others began operating wheeled armored personnel carriers for the first time.
According to the results of last year's deliveries, the total number of BTR-82A (M) in the troops should have reached the level of 2140-2150 units. In 2020, it was planned to repair and rebuild at least 330 BTR-80 from combat units. This means that the number of such vehicles in the original configuration could be reduced to 1300 units. or less. However, in modern BTR-82AM armored vehicles can be rebuilt from storage, which will allow not to reduce the active fleet of BTR-80 and combine quantitative growth with a qualitative upgrade.
Future plans
On February 22, the Ministry of Defense revealed plans for the rearmament of the ground forces for this year. Hundreds of armored combat vehicles of various classes will be purchased. The most popular will be the armored personnel carriers of the latest models - about 300 units. A few days later, the news about the procurement of armored vehicles was repeated, but without much detail. In particular, the shares of completely new and updated equipment are not indicated.
The expected completion of orders for this year will lead to understandable results. The total number of modern BTR-82A (M) will exceed 2400 units, and the number of older BTR-80 may be reduced again. By the end of the year, the units may have less than 1,000 such armored personnel carriers.
Most likely, in the next 2022, the production and modernization of armored vehicles will continue. The volumes of future orders are unknown and, possibly, have not yet been determined, since they must be determined taking into account the result of previous work. At the same time, it is clear what consequences the continuation of the current rearmament program will lead to.
Save and grow
The BTR-82AM project proposes the restructuring of the existing BTR-80 armored vehicle according to a new project with a number of important capabilities. When using equipment from combat units, the BTR-80 is gradually replaced with new BTR-82AM while maintaining the total number - and improving the condition of the park, as well as increasing combat capabilities.
The construction of the BTR-82A is carried out from scratch. Distinguished by greater complexity and cost, it allows you to increase the total number of armored personnel carriers in the army. Such capabilities are used to equip newly created formations or to re-equip existing ones.
For example, in November 2020, the newly formed motorized rifle regiment of the 127th motorized rifle division received three dozen new armored personnel carriers. Later, in December, the re-equipment of three battalions of the 205th separate motorized rifle brigade was completed. Previously, they used MT-LB vehicles, and now they are mastering modern BTR-82s. Without the production of the BTR-82A (M), such processes would at least be difficult and would have limited results.
Benefits obtained
The BTR-82A (M) project offers a deep modernization of the existing BTR-80 armored personnel carrier with the replacement of a number of key units. Due to this, significant advantages are achieved over the basic machine in all main characteristics. However, the BTR-82A (M) is noticeably inferior to promising models that are preparing for adoption.
In the course of modernization, measures were taken to increase the resource of the structure. The increase in weight is compensated by the installation of a new KAMAZ-740.14-300 engine with a power of 300 hp. The same measures allow you to increase mobility and patency.
Much attention is paid to the issues of protection. A new anti-splinter lining has appeared on the armor inside the habitable compartments, designed to complement the hull sheets. Enhanced mine protection is envisaged. In addition, the seats of the crew and the landing party with an energy-absorbing suspension are used. An air conditioner has been introduced to improve working conditions.
BTR-82A (M) receives a turret cannon and machine gun mount with a 30-mm 2A72 cannon and a PKTM machine gun. The installation has a two-plane stabilizer and a combined (day-night) sight TKN-4GA. Such a complex of weapons allows you to obtain high firepower, increased accuracy and the ability to effectively fire at any time of the day.
Quantity and quality
Thus, the BTR-82A (M) project makes it possible to do without the production of fundamentally new equipment, saving time and resources, but at the same time getting a noticeable increase in the main characteristics and capabilities. In addition, there is no need for a lengthy and complex retraining of crews, and the operation processes are simplified.
A similar approach has been implemented over the past few years and has already yielded noticeable results. The total number of BTR-82A (M) gradually approached the number of BTR-80, and then exceeded it. It is expected that the modernization of the fleet of armored vehicles will continue, incl. with the renewal of old armored personnel carriers according to a modern project. It is very likely that in a few years this will completely abandon the outdated BTR-80 and fully use the potential of the modern BTR-82A (M) project.
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Atmosphere- Posts : 135
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From my understanding , BTR-82 series is more about acting as a bulletproof taxi while having considerably more fire power than vehicles armed with self defence MG's.
Or is it something else?
Or is it something else?
GarryB- Posts : 29972
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Pretty much, the BTR equates to APC in western terms while BMP equates to IFV in western terms.
Both are designed to be protected from small arms fire and splinters and allow mobility on the battle field, though neither is really designed for the troops to fight from the vehicle in combat.
Previously the BTR would deliver troops and then retire to a distance and provide what is essentially HMG and rifle calibre machine gun fire support, while the BMP would deliver troops and also sit back and provide fire support but the better optics and cannon and heavier armament meant it could better support the troops it had deployed.
There was a Soviet plan where instead of the BMPs supporting their troops with direct fire power that 1/3rd to 1/4 of the BMPs would support the dismounted troops while the other 2/3rds or 3/4s would detach from the force and act as a mobile armoured force that could be used for other things... keeping in mind that all BMPs had auto cannon or a heavier gun and anti tank guided missiles, so they were quite well armed.
Essentially the BTR-80A and BTR-82A have a 30mm cannon with better range and power and also better optics than the 14.5mm HMG they are normally equipped with.
The 14.5mm HMG has twice the energy of a 50 cal HMG and could probably be better described as more like a 20mm cannon as used in the west.
Compared with a 20mm cannon the 14.5mm HMG has much higher muzzle velocity and armour penetration performance for full calibre rounds, but has less projectile capacity for HE rounds... still a very potent weapon.
Both are designed to be protected from small arms fire and splinters and allow mobility on the battle field, though neither is really designed for the troops to fight from the vehicle in combat.
Previously the BTR would deliver troops and then retire to a distance and provide what is essentially HMG and rifle calibre machine gun fire support, while the BMP would deliver troops and also sit back and provide fire support but the better optics and cannon and heavier armament meant it could better support the troops it had deployed.
There was a Soviet plan where instead of the BMPs supporting their troops with direct fire power that 1/3rd to 1/4 of the BMPs would support the dismounted troops while the other 2/3rds or 3/4s would detach from the force and act as a mobile armoured force that could be used for other things... keeping in mind that all BMPs had auto cannon or a heavier gun and anti tank guided missiles, so they were quite well armed.
Essentially the BTR-80A and BTR-82A have a 30mm cannon with better range and power and also better optics than the 14.5mm HMG they are normally equipped with.
The 14.5mm HMG has twice the energy of a 50 cal HMG and could probably be better described as more like a 20mm cannon as used in the west.
Compared with a 20mm cannon the 14.5mm HMG has much higher muzzle velocity and armour penetration performance for full calibre rounds, but has less projectile capacity for HE rounds... still a very potent weapon.
lyle6- Posts : 683
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Atmosphere wrote:From my understanding , BTR-82 series is more about acting as a bulletproof taxi while having considerably more fire power than vehicles armed with self defence MG's.
Or is it something else?
Depends on the opposition really. If you're fighting a near-peer (as an aside, for the Russian forces to refer to NATO forces as near peer is certainly more accurate than if it were the other way around) opponent with an abundance of anti-armor weaponry distributed even to the squad level, the BTRs shouldn't be used to assault positions like you would heavier armor. On the other hand, if all your fighting are insurgents armed predominantly with small arms you can use these vehicles in a much more aggressive manner instead. Spetsnaz and internal ministry troops in Chechnya have a habit of using the BTRs as a kind of portable cover when trying to assault enemy positions with the machineguns being used liberally to suppress the enemy.
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d_taddei2- Posts : 1836
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Atmosphere wrote:From my understanding , BTR-82 series is more about acting as a bulletproof taxi while having considerably more fire power than vehicles armed with self defence MG's.
Or is it something else?
And don't forget that BTR are fully amphibious (they can actually swim) unlike western amphibious vehicles which aren't. So this adds to there versatility. They can out flank an enemy position or surprise they from a different approach by swimming over bodies of water or deep rivers.
When I was in the forces we used Saxon APC, a four wheeled designed for the streets of Northern Ireland, armed with only GPMG 7.62mm and armour that protected u from 7.62mm, they had a tendency to tip over, and crap in muddy fields, there was even a time they kept tipping over and killing and injuring troops, that when we were on exercise down in Salisbury plain any slope we went down everyone got out apart from driver and commander so if it did tip over less casualties. And could really only ford rivers of around half a metre. They were shit and what did Russia and ex Soviet countries have? BTR-60/70/80 which are fully amphibious, better armour, better off-road, larger inside and armed with 7.62mm and 14.5mm I know what I would rather have been in and the BTR-60 was in production in 1960 while the Saxon APC was early 1980's by that time the Soviets had the BTR-70 and 80. They sold some of that crap to Ukraine and why Ukraine took them I dont know must have been given at a token price, even a British General complained about giving them to Ukraine saying they aren't good enough for Ukrainian troops lol.
GarryB- Posts : 29972
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British General complained about giving them to Ukraine saying they aren't good enough for Ukrainian troops lol.
That is amusing....
The original BTR-60 was intended to replace trucks which most opponent forces used widely.
For much of its service life it was derided in the west as being too thinly armoured and unreliable, but despite those being fair criticisms it was cheap and they made them in enormous numbers and their opponents were carrying troops in unarmoured trucks which had less armour and no firepower and were not amphibious.
At the time the M113 had a 50 cal HMG but no protection... the BTR-60PB had a turret with a 14.5mm HMG which was essentially a very good anti armour weapon that would rip an M113 to shreds at any range you could see it.
The first models had two engines, but they were standard truck engines widely used at the time... plenty of parts and simple to keep running, but not really powerful enough for one to power a vehicle so they used two.
They had all sorts of problems like overheating, but it made the vehicle easily affordable and it was produced in large numbers.
The wear and tear on roads is much less than a tracked vehicle, and the operational costs are much lower.
One American officer who got a chance to drive one described it as being the ultimate RV (recreational vehicle).
They are 8 wheel drive and when operating on soft ground like snow or mud or sand you can reduce the air pressure in the tires to increase the grip and lower the ground pressure using a control panel inside the vehicle.
In places with good roads it is fast and manouverable, and it has a winch so if it gets stuck it can normally self recover.
As described once a tracked vehicle doing 2,000km probably needs serious maintenance and checking of the track links for damage, but for a wheeled vehicle it is no problem at all.
Russian_Patriot_- Posts : 382
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The 81st Armored Repair Plant from Armavir has shipped to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation the first batch of repaired BTR-82AM armored personnel carriers this year.
As part of the implementation of the state defense order, major repairs were carried out. All components and assemblies of the transmission, chassis and electrical equipment have been restored in accordance with the requirements of the repair documentation. The components were replaced with new ones, and some of the spare parts were manufactured by the company. All this made it possible to restore the resource of the machines to the required level.
The repaired armored vehicles under the control of military representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation passed all types of running and fire tests.
As part of the implementation of the state defense order, major repairs were carried out. All components and assemblies of the transmission, chassis and electrical equipment have been restored in accordance with the requirements of the repair documentation. The components were replaced with new ones, and some of the spare parts were manufactured by the company. All this made it possible to restore the resource of the machines to the required level.
The repaired armored vehicles under the control of military representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation passed all types of running and fire tests.
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