Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

what is located there currently?)

2 Tor launchers.

The big modernization would be the shtil-1 as it need new radars on the ship.

That would be a good ship but still at the level of what could be a new design for a 164m ship.

PapaDragon wrote:
So that would mean additional 2x4 Uran launchers (replacing torpedo tubes in the center) and additional 2x8 UKSK launchers right behind it (what is located there currently?)

Plus 2x4 Paket-NK​ just in case

That would be 32 UKSK compatible missiles (Kalibr, Onyx or Zircon), 16 Kh-35 Switchblade missiles and 8 Paket compact torpedos

Shaposhnikov was already sweet setup but this here would definitely be living up to potential

Hopefully Vinogradov gets this fancy package

I believe that is 2 UKSK launchers (16 cells) in total in the ship, as announced before.

Gorshkov M (that will be the same size as Udaloy class) will have many more launchers (6 in total, for 48 UKSK cells), but it will be designed from the beginning to accommodate such weapons.

The real good news is the presence of  4 Shtil-1 (naval buk) launchers.  Now these  ships will have a quite good medium range (possibly up to 70 km) SAM and a more than decent number of missile.

The question is now about the paket mini torpedoes... are they removing the large torpedoes launchers existing before to accomodate those?

The question is now about the paket mini torpedoes... are they removing the large torpedoes launchers existing before to accomodate those?

Likely the main use for torpedo tubes on a Russian ship would be to launch Paket and 91ER1... if they have separate Paket launchers then the 91ER1 can be stored in the UKSK launch tubes... when needed.

Recent pic of the Chabanenko, taken 23 Aug 2020. Not much progress since Feb.

Where do they plan to put shtil-1 launchers ? Will they replace tor ? I hope not.

Good thing they say 4x12 so 48 missiles with probably 70km range and ARH. But Tor is a much better system to deal with anti ship missiles.

The 2 tor launchers in the back will ve removed but they can keep the front ones. That's still 32 missiles which can be 64 with the new missiles and new launchers.

Isos wrote:Where do they plan to put shtil-1 launchers ? Will they replace tor ? I hope not.

Good thing they say 4x12 so 48 missiles with probably 70km range and ARH. But Tor is a much better system to deal with anti ship missiles.

The 2 tor launchers in the back will ve removed but they can keep the front ones. That's still 32 missiles which can be 64 with the new missiles and new launchers.

According to the plans shown it looks like Shtil would replace the Tor module in the bow and the Оса (Gecko) modules in the stern, which means the Tor module in the stern (or midships, rather, I suppose) would remain; however, apparently some Udaloy, IIRC, only have the bow Tor, not the midship Tor, so for them there would be no more Tor.

Udaloy class has no Osa.


Schaposchnikov. There is a lot of space were the crane was.

Udaloy class has no Osa.

You're right...I mixed something up. The targeting radar in the stern is for the Tor launchers midships, not for any Osa, and it is replaced in the plans for the new version with VLS cells for Shtil, it would appear; what confused me is that the structure midships, which currently houses the midship Tor launcher, is still there in the new plans, but it is not explicitly labeled...so either it will still contain Tor missiles that are guided by some other radar (seems unlikely) or they forgot to remove it in the drawing or it will house something else that they are not telling us.

Put the Shtil-1 silos where the crane and the boat are. Delete the TT and you can fit in 2 or even 4 Uran launchers. 2 UKSK modules can replace the RBU-6000´s and the after Kinzhal (Tor) silos.

Looks like a good plan to me. Trading off the old version of Khinzal (Tor) for a pair of Shtil VLS bins is a plus in my book, and I'd happily lose the 2x RBU-6000 if it meant getting an extra UKSK bin in return.

Regarding constructability, there will be a lot of available depth in the aft superstructure adjoining the hangar with the removal of the Khinzal bins and the RBU launchers (and their associated reload handling systems and magazines). Especially the RBU - those things pack a lot of HE into a small space and the magazine is deep in the ship and armoured to protect it (taking a hit in that chamber and detonating the reloads would 100% result in a dead ship). Remove these systems and cut away that entire section of superstructure and you'll have space to accommodate a UKSK and Shtil combo.

In any case, it looks like they are retaining the other Tor structure fwd of the hangar/aft of the crane, so some SHORAD capability is retained for anti-missile defense.

It's a pity about losing the twin 533mm rotary torp launchers, but the UKSK can carry 91R1/91R2 rocket-torpedos so the ASW capabilities are enhanced in terms of range and reaction time. Paket makes a great addition, and doubling the allotment of Urans is a bonus.

The area behind the 2nd funnel was made available on the Shaposhnikov by removal of the crane and FRC. It strikes me that this would be a good place to locate containerised systems when needed, eg extra Kalibre launchers. I expect the area below this platform is engine room, so forget about locating any permanent VLS bins in this area.

Yep. good plan. Now make it happen...

Isos wrote:Where do they plan to put shtil-1 launchers ? Will they replace tor ? I hope not.

Good thing they say 4x12 so 48 missiles with probably 70km range and ARH. But Tor is a much better system to deal with anti ship missiles.

The 2 tor launchers in the back will ve removed but they can keep the front ones. That's still 32 missiles which can be 64 with the new missiles and new launchers.

Not really as you run into risk of being saturated. Despite application of Phased array. Tor is still handicapped by how many guidance channel it has and there are not many of it (afaik 2-4, means it can engage 2-4 targets). Having Shtil not only improve range but being ARH, the limit of target you can engage is basically the number of the missiles you have.

This is more like it.
Though I'm surprised there can be enough space/volume for both extra UKSK and a 2nd group of Shtil-1 aft

Stealthflanker wrote:

Isos wrote:Where do they plan to put shtil-1 launchers ? Will they replace tor ? I hope not.

Good thing they say 4x12 so 48 missiles with probably 70km range and ARH. But Tor is a much better system to deal with anti ship missiles.

The 2 tor launchers in the back will ve removed but they can keep the front ones. That's still 32 missiles which can be 64 with the new missiles and new launchers.

Not really as you run into risk of being saturated.  Despite application of Phased array. Tor is still handicapped by how many guidance channel it has and there are not many of it (afaik 2-4, means it can engage 2-4 targets). Having Shtil not only improve range but being ARH, the limit of target you can engage is basically the number of the missiles you have.

Tor is a short range system. Shtil-1 isn't good at short range because its missile will be too heavy.

They need to use them togather. Tor is the best system for intercepting small size targets.

Or maybe they can just put a pantsir without reloading and no guns but more missiles like the SA variant for short range protection.

They seem to be halving the number of TOR launchers, but with current production missiles being half the size and land based launcher carrying twice as many of the new missiles as the old I suspect the number of TOR missiles carried will at the very least stay the same.

But the old naval TOR missile system was not a honeycomb cell launcher... it had launch hatches and rotary missile carousels that held missiles in a big revolver system with lots of inefficient empty space areas. Replace it with a honey comb launcher and you could probably increase the number of ready to fire missiles by more than double, so the upgraded TOR might carry more than twice the previous system was able to carry and use.

Which is good because Shtil is good but the TOR system is really cheap but still all weather and very very capable.

hoom wrote:This is more like it.
Though I'm surprised there can be enough space/volume for both extra UKSK and a 2nd group of Shtil-1 aft

The Tor launcher in front of the hangar is nearly as heigh as the new structure for the UKSK on Schaposchnikov. The area of the crane could be heightend accordingly. But top weight could be a problem.

Next round of trials

Close-up of the Shaposhnikovs new top works, including the replacement radar for the TORs 3R95 Cross Sword.

Too bad they don't share the schema of the inside to see the place taken and free for more weapons.

The place where the UKSK are could hold 2x2 UKSK.

Or they could put 1x12 shtil on the side of the UKSK.

It's also stupid to not use that new radar on the back yor too. It's only half modernized.

The ring on the right could be a foundation for a salute gun.

Interesting that the structure behind the Urans quad isn't just a simple blast deflector but seems to be a more comprehensive structure. Compartment for equipment upgrades perhaps?