Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    BMP-3 in Russian Army

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:33 am

    There was a picture of it somewhere I think... the round is basically like the 100mm round from the BMP-3... it is mostly projectile with a small stub propellent case because muzzle velocity is not really important, but shell weight is.

    It means they could probably carry 3-4 times more grenade HE rounds in the space 57mm high velocity shells would take up because of their enormous shell cases needed to generate high muzzle velocity.

    I seem to remember the comment that the 57mm grenade round had more HE power than a 76.2mm artillery shell.

    The 57mm AA gun round (ie S-60) had about 2.8kgs of HE... improvements in design and explosives means they should probably manage a 3-4kg equivalent payload with the new ammo.

    The naval 57mm gun has a 2.8kg HE round, while the 76.2mm gun has a 5.9kg HE round... so I would expect the new 57mm grenade launcher to pack about 6-7kgs of HE power.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2889
    Points : 3044
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:58 am

    Haven't seen this before....BMP-3 with Ataka missiles (pic from 2017)

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_001
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_002
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:42 pm

    That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...
    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2380
    Points : 2372
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective
    0nillie0
    0nillie0

    Posts : 163
    Points : 165
    Join date : 2016-05-15
    Age : 34
    Location : Flanders, Belgium

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  0nillie0 on Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:37 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective

    This upgrade was originally intended for BMP-2M (sb4-3) offered for export since some years now. Recently it has been adapted on Bakhcha-U combat module (version used in BMD-4M and offered on BMP-3M now) as well, as seen in that picture. The main purpose of this combat module according to Rosoboronexport is to engage tanks or other heavy armored targets with Ataka-T supersonic laser beam-riding ATGM. Ataka-T also means capability to fire the 9M120M tandem HEAT round which is faster but also somewhat less powerful and probably cheaper than its "Kornet counterpart", but more powerful than the Bastion GLATGM.

    The platform is fully stabilized, which was already a major advantage over the ATGM launcher of the BMP-2 in terms of practical use. What exactly the advantages are over 9M117 of BMP-3, other than penetration, could perhaps be explained by a more knowledgeable person here, but perhaps it also has to do with guidance. 9M117 is notoriously hard to use on the move, and perhaps Ataka is more practical in that way (tho AFAIK both are beam riding SACLOS).

    Additionally, as mentioned by Garry, the launch platform can rotate 360 degrees, implying it could be fired/guided using the commander's panoramic sight of the Bakhcha-U combat module. Two important notes here are that the commander sight needs to equipped with sensors that are compatible with Ataka launcher for effective guidance. For example, for use of the above line of sight attack mode of Ataka missile, range to target must be measured before launch. This would imply the requirement of a laser range finder, which AFAIK is not installed by default in the commander sight of the BMD-4M. Additionally, the position of the platform creates a blind spot for the commander sight....which is also far from ideal.

    IMHO this upgrade made some sense for the BMP-2 (though the KBP upgrade with Berezhok combat module and Kornet is IMHO superior).
    For BMP-3 i don't think it will see much success with Russian forces, but perhaps some export customer which already uses Ataka in anti tank role? IMHO it would make more sense just to add dual Kornet launchers on the side of the turret as seen already on BMP-2M which is accepted for service. Latest version of Kornet is significantly more capable than Bastion...but probably more expensive Smile.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 am

    Yes, I think it is significant that they have attached the launch tubes to the commander sight... perhaps it is so enemy aircraft like attack helos can be engaged when detected, rather than waiting for the gunner to engage...

    The late model Ataka uses laser beam riding guidance like the Kornet and the Bastion, which would be a good choice for guidance against attack helos... not only are they supersonic but would not be effected by DIRCMS like a MANPADS would be...

    I would expect the laser beam riding guidance would be provided by an upgraded commanders sight otherwise it would totally defeat the purpose of fitting it to the commanders sight as the tank turret would need to be turned to allow the gunner sight to point a laser at the target for the missile to follow.

    Having a laser in the commanders sight is perfectly sensible and normal because he needs to determine ranges of targets and threats he detects anyway.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2889
    Points : 3044
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:56 am

    BMP-3's to receive Active Protection during planned upgrades...

    TSAMTO, 13 Aug. Russian infantry fighting vehicle BMP-3 during upgrading will get new means of active protection, have informed "RIA Novosti" Director of the industrial cluster of conventional arms, ammunition and special chemistry of state Corporation rostec Sergey Abramov.

    "The modernization potential of the BMP-3 is far from exhausted. Currently, the developed system of protection against ballistic weapons, RPG-7, SPG-9, the possibility of increasing the passive protection as well as the issue of integration of means of active protection," – said to "RIA Novosti" Sergei Abramov.

    http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2019/0813/123053871/detail.shtml

    GarryB likes this post

    avatar
    Austin

    Posts : 7619
    Points : 8016
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:58 pm

    Russia’s Latest Amphibious Tracked Vehicles

    https://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/1-2019/item2/article5/


    Sergey Abdulov


    Over the years, the BMP-3 and BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles have earned themselves a reputation with the Russian and foreign navies as excellent armor well-suited for amphibious landing operations. For example, in one unprecedented case during an exercise in the early 2000s, UAE marines conducted an amphibious landing operation in BMP-3 vehicles during a heavy storm, with waves reaching 3-4 meters high. Forty-two of the 43 vehicles made a successful landing.

    But modern warfare presents ever more stringent requirements. One of them is the ability to conduct “over-the-horizon” amphibious landing operations, when landing vehicles leave the mothership 40-60km from the target and sail at maximum speed to the landing area instead of being dropped off right near the coastline. This reduces the risk of numerous vehicles being destroyed as they try to land. Also, marines must now be equipped with hardware that can provide fire support during landing rather than serve as mere transports.

    Russia’s Kurganmashzavod and the Special Machinery Design Bureau (SKBM) have developed a whole family of such vehicles using the BMP-3 platform as a starting point. They used many of the standard BMP-3 parts and components, which offers clear advantages in terms of both operation and maintenance. All these vehicles can be airlifted by Il-76MD or equivalent transports. They have an autonomy of up to 7 hours once they leave the mothership, and can make a landing oin difficult and unprepared coastal terrain.


    BT-3F APC


    One of these latest models is the BT-3F, a versatile armored personnel carrier that meets all modern requirements. It uses a specially adapted BMP-3 chassis.

    One of the priorities in the development of that vehicle was a high level of protection. A lot of thought also went into making the vehicle ergonomic and comfortable for its crew and the personnel it carries. It meets all the standard requirements in terms of mobility and interchangeability of components with the basic BMP-3 model.

    The BMP-3 and the BT-3F also share excellent protection from conventional weapons as well as from the impact of nuclear explosion, which enables their combined use in combat operations.

    The BT-3F is equipped with the 5ETs16U remote-controlled turret. That turret is armed with the Kord 12.7mm machine-gun, a television IR sight unit, and a laser range finder. It is indispensable for engaging lightly armored targets, weapons emplacements, and enemy personnel. Its video monitoring system offers a 360-degree field of view; the image is displayed on separate screens for the driver and for the personnel.

    There are several possible configurations for the passenger compartment: in addition to the vehicle’s crew, there is enough room for up to 10 commandos in the standard configuration, with an option for extra room for another five. Importantly, the vehicle can be used to haul bulky cargoes and ammunition, or serve as a platform for various hardware and equipment. In fact, this next-generation APC is marketed as a basic platform for a variety of special vehicles.

    The 500hp engine gives the BT-3F the same mobility characteristics as the BMP-3, including a 70km/h highway speed and the ability to sail in 2 to 3-meter waves.

    Another clear advantage of the BT-3F is its transportability by land, air, sea, and rail. It is even light enough to be hauled by Mi-26 helicopters using external suspension.

    Thanks to the use of standard parts and components that are shared with the BMP-3, which has been in service for many years, mass production of the new BT-3F model can be launched at the Kurgan Machinery Plant very quickly, with little to no preparation. Neither will it require much training for crews already trained with the BMP-3 and BMP-3F models. All of these considerations make the BT-3F an attractive proposition for the foreign armed forces that already operate the BMP-3.


    BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicle


    Another recent version of the BMP-3 model is the BMP- 3F. It is indispensable for rapid response units and marines operating unsupported in hostile territory, especially in coastal areas.

    Changes in the BMP-3F design compared to the parent BMP-3 model give it a greater buoyancy and stability at sea. For example, it has a telescopic air inlet pipe and lighter wave deflectors on the main body and turret. Its water-jet propulsors give it a sailing speed of up to 10 km/h.

    The vehicle is very stable and maneuverable at sea, capable of sailing in up to 1.25-meter waves, and can shoot accurately in up to 0.5-meter waves. It can remain at sea for up to 7 hours with the engine running.

    The BMP-3F also boasts excellent fire power thanks to its 100mm guided anti-tank missile launcher, a 30mm automatic cannon, and three 7.62mm machine guns. Its automated fire control system and highly efficient ammo make it capable of firing both on land and at sea, day or night, using all its weapons systems. The fire control system includes the Sodema IR sight/range finder, which provides reliable target identification and high firing accuracy round the clock and in poor visibility. As an option, the Sodema can be equipped with the AST-B automated target tracking device. Another option for the BMP-3F fire control system is the TKN-AI 24-hour commander observation unit.

    Other optional systems and components include:


    TVK-1B driver-mechanic observation unit

    IUSSh-688 chassis information and control system or EPVO driver and operator electronic assist device

    KBM-3M2E air conditioner (driven by the main engine) or an autonomous air conditioner with its own power unit that enables comfortable operation at ambient temperatures of up to +50°C

    MZ PTUR guided anti-tank missile loading mechanism


    All these options can be installed without sacrificing buoyancy, thanks to the use of special equipment.

    Thanks to its excellent mobility, protection, and firepower, combined with exceptional reliability, simple design, and ease of repair, the BMP-3F is one of the best amphibious fighting vehicles in the market.


    2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon


    The 2S25 is a light amphibious tank / self-propelled anti-tank cannon designed for more challenging tactical roles. These roles include reconnaissance, patrol and escort; action as part of a raid, flanking or advance units; combat in the security zone and maneuvering defense; forced water crossing; amphibious landing operations; operations in forested or mountainous terrain, swamps, or Arctic regions; and area control during peacekeeping operations and internal armed conflicts.

    Military planners in countries all over the world have come to realize the need for a light tank to support main battle tanks in modern warfare. The general requirements for such vehicles are as follows:

    firepower on par with, or not much inferior to main battle tanks

    increased tactical mobility and maneuverability, including the ability to force water barriers at speed

    a much better suitability for transportation by air, sea, rail, and road transport

    a lower cost compared with the main battle tanks

    The Special Machinery Design Bureau’s BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle and its various versions (such as the BMP-3F model designed for the marines, and the BRM-3K amphibious reconnaissance vehicle) are often used in roles that should normally be performed by light tanks. They often struggle in these roles since an infantry fighting vehicle, for all its advantages, is clearly not a tank.

    For example, the Indonesian marines have bought a batch of BMP-3F primarily for use as direct fire support vehicles during amphibious landing and coastal operations. For actual landing, the Indonesians still use the old Soviet BTR-50 APCs and the US-made AAV-7 vehicles.

    Until very recently, not a single army in the world had an armored fighting vehicle that met all the requirements for a light tank. The first country to have developed such a tank is Russia.

    To a specialist, there is no doubt at all that the 2S25 is a modern light tank – in other words, a versatile fighting vehicle that can be used by all branches of the armed forces in the tactical roles for which that category of armored vehicles is the best fit. The new system’s potential users include:


    The Army (reconnaissance and anti-tank units, commandant units, alpine units and divisions, combined-services units serving with rapid-reaction or peacekeeping forces)

    The Marines and Navy coastal forces

    Airborne troops (parachute units, airborne assault and commando units and divisions)

    Units assigned to mobile ground-based ICBM

    Territorial defense units


    The 2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon is capable of performing all the aforementioned roles on the ground, at sea, and in the air.

    There are no other amphibious vehicles in Russia or abroad that pack such firepower in a relatively small package. The 2S25M is equipped with the 2A75M 125mm cannon, which can fire modern armor-piercing subcaliber projectiles, shaped-charge shells, HE-fragmentation shells, and projectiles with remote in-flight detonation. Such ammo is especially effective against enemy personnel, portable anti-tank system crews, unarmored vehicles, and light armor.

    These advantages greatly improve the system’s combat performance. In terms of its firepower, it is comparable to another new Russian system, the T-90MS main battle tank. The 2S25M can also fire guided missiles with shaped-charge or HE fragmentation warheads capable of destroying even the most heavily-protected armored vehicles at a distance of up to 5km. The new system carries a complement of 40 cannon projectiles, including 22 in the mechanized rounds rack.

    The 2S25M is also equipped with a remote-controlled 7.62mm machine-gun. It enables the commander of the vehicle to engage targets with the machine gun while the main weapon is in use by the operator. The total ammo complement of the machine guns is 3,000 rounds.

    Apart from the tank cannon that is just as capable as the one used in the T-90MS, the 2S25M also has an almost identical and very advanced fire control system. That system is the Sosna-U, widely regarded as one of the best in the world. It includes a visual and IR-range channels. The commander’s panoramic sight also has these two channels. Both sights support automatic target acquisition and tracking. There is also a backup sight in case the main ones go down; it is an optical-electronic instrument, with a vertically stabilized field of view and an autonomous power source.

    The 2S25M has a chassis information and control system that makes it much easier to operate and alerts the crew to any malfunctions. The latest frequency-modulation communication system supports technical transmission masking and can be integrated with modern command-and control systems, including automated ones such as the Andromeda-D (developed for the Airborne Assault Troops) or the Army’s ESU TZ Sozvezdiye-M2.

    The system’s undercarriage, engine, and gearbox are shared with the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle and the BMD-4M amphibious infantry fighting vehicle. The UTD-29 multifuel, 500hp diesel engine can propel the 18-tonne vehicle with a 3-man crew at up to 70km/h on land and 10 km/h at sea.

    The chassis is equipped with a highly efficient independent hydropneumatic variable-clearance suspension. Given the roles for which this vehicle is designed, its ability to press its belly to the ground or the landing platform is hard to overestimate.

    Experts believe that the 2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon is the world’s only modern light tank. The need for such vehicles will continue to grow in the foreseeable future, especially considering the cost of upgraded third-generation main battle tanks.

    The family of amphibious fighting vehicles developed by SKBM and Kurganmashzavod offer excellent protection, maneuverability, and firepower; they are also very sensibly priced. There is no doubt that the BT-3F, the BMP-3F, and the 2S25M will be a great success in this category of the global arms market, in which Russia has long enjoyed a strong presence.

    Print version
    avatar
    ult

    Posts : 793
    Points : 833
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  ult on Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:43 pm

    106 BMP-3 to be delivered to RuMoD in 2019. 58 have been delivered so far.
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 14937
    Points : 15436
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:20 am

    Contract for another BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles


    According to the documentation published on the public procurement website, posted on October 31, 2019, the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Engineering named after Academician A.G. Shipunova ”(KBP JSC, a part of JSC NPO High Precision Complexes as part of the Rostec State Corporation) entered into an agreement with a single supplier (which, as you can easily understand, is Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC, now also part of the State Corporation Rostec) for the purchase of 168 BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles (in specification 688B-sb6-2) in support of State Contract No. 1921187312042412241006930 of April 29, 2019 for subsequent delivery to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Of these, 53 BMP-3 should be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2020, and the remaining 115 units - in 2021. The total value of the contract is 14.251660729 billion rubles including VAT.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Bmp-310
    Production of new BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles at the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC. Kurgan, January 2019 (c) bmpd


    On the part of bmpd, we recall that the plans for concluding a “large long-term contract for the purchase of more than 150 BMP-3s” in January 2019 were announced by Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to Tula on Shcheglovsky Val JSC (a subsidiary of Design Bureau JSC Instrument Engineering named after Academician A. G. Shipunov ”).

    Earlier, in August 2017, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract with the High Precision Complexes holding and the KBP JSC, which is part of the latest KBP JSC, for the supply of a small experimental batch of BMP-3 with an uninhabited combat module "at the International Military Technical Forum" Army 2017 " The era of the development of KBP. However, as you can judge, the new contract in 2019, which provides for the delivery of 168 BMP-3s in the specification 688B-sb6-2, implies only the supply of BMP-3s in a slightly modified form with enhanced protection.

    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense issued two contracts for the supply of BMP-3 to PJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (KMP) - a three-year contract for the supply of about 200 BMP-3 in the period 2015-2017, and a two-year contract for the supply of about 200 more BMP-3 in 2018 -2019 years. According to well-known data, KMZ should deliver the last 106 cars under the last contract in 2019.

    Also, on December 28, 2018, KMZ entered into a contract for the overhaul of 97 BMP-3 early issues with delivery in 2019-2020, the contract value is 6.109858033 billion rubles (including VAT). Thus, the cost of overhauling one BMP-3 at KMP (51-54 million rubles including VAT) is only one third lower than the cost of production of a new modernized BMP-3 (82-86 million rubles including VAT).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3838128.html
    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 277
    Points : 306
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Why Not Moving On To More Modern Vehicles?

    Post  calripson on Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:35 am

    George1 wrote:

    Contract for another BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles



    According to the documentation published on the public procurement website, posted on October 31, 2019, the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Engineering named after Academician A.G. Shipunova ”(KBP JSC, a part of JSC NPO High Precision Complexes as part of the Rostec State Corporation) entered into an agreement with a single supplier (which, as you can easily understand, is Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC, now also part of the State Corporation Rostec) for the purchase of 168 BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles (in specification 688B-sb6-2) in support of State Contract No. 1921187312042412241006930 of April 29, 2019 for subsequent delivery to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Of these, 53 BMP-3 should be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2020, and the remaining 115 units - in 2021. The total value of the contract is 14.251660729 billion rubles including VAT.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Bmp-310
    Production of new BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles at the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC. Kurgan, January 2019 (c) bmpd


       On the part of bmpd, we recall that the plans for concluding a “large long-term contract for the purchase of more than 150 BMP-3s” in January 2019 were announced by Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to Tula on Shcheglovsky Val JSC (a subsidiary of Design Bureau JSC Instrument Engineering named after Academician A. G. Shipunov ”).

       Earlier, in August 2017, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract with the High Precision Complexes holding and the KBP JSC, which is part of the latest KBP JSC, for the supply of a small experimental batch of BMP-3 with an uninhabited combat module "at the International Military Technical Forum" Army 2017 " The era of the development of KBP. However, as you can judge, the new contract in 2019, which provides for the delivery of 168 BMP-3s in the specification 688B-sb6-2, implies only the supply of BMP-3s in a slightly modified form with enhanced protection.

       Earlier, the Ministry of Defense issued two contracts for the supply of BMP-3 to PJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (KMP) - a three-year contract for the supply of about 200 BMP-3 in the period 2015-2017, and a two-year contract for the supply of about 200 more BMP-3 in 2018 -2019 years. According to well-known data, KMZ should deliver the last 106 cars under the last contract in 2019.

       Also, on December 28, 2018, KMZ entered into a contract for the overhaul of 97 BMP-3 early issues with delivery in 2019-2020, the contract value is 6.109858033 billion rubles (including VAT). Thus, the cost of overhauling one BMP-3 at KMP (51-54 million rubles including VAT) is only one third lower than the cost of production of a new modernized BMP-3 (82-86 million rubles including VAT).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3838128.html


    Why aren't they moving on to more modern designs?? Is it money (penny pinching) or technological/production issues??
    avatar
    nero

    Posts : 85
    Points : 85
    Join date : 2019-03-26

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  nero on Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:09 am

    calripson wrote:Why aren't they moving on to more modern designs?? Is it money (penny pinching) or technological/production issues??
    BMP-3 production line is already up and running, troops were trained to use them and the decision to buy more of them was done long ago. The change to the armata platfrom will happen in mid-late 2020's, imo.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:45 am

    If their plans go as originally set out it is going to take quite a while to rearm and reform their armoured brigades and divisions... so there is going to be a period of time where they are making upgraded old models while they are sorting out the brand new vehicles.

    Right now they use a range of BMP and BTR and indeed MTLB based vehicles in a wide range of roles, and replacements for pretty much all of them need to be developed based on their new vehicle platforms which is going to take time.

    For now this is an upgraded model of a type they already have in service so they are improving commonality and simplicity across their fleet.

    When the new vehicle types are ready they will collapse the different vehicle types down to three or four, with each mobile force consisting of hopefully one vehicle type though perhaps sometimes two where needed.

    Of course it is not totally practical to demand every branch and every location all use the standard new types... we have seen TOR and Pantsir mounted on double vehicles for arctic use and also on Typhoon family trucks too... it will be interesting to see what happens.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6183
    Points : 6175
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:47 pm

    1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    11h
    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).
    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 277
    Points : 306
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty They Need To Transition

    Post  calripson on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:07 pm

    Isos wrote:1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    11h
    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).

    They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3136
    Points : 3136
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:16 pm

    Nearly all NATO AIFV´s are older then BMP-3.

    New and modernised versions receive add-on armour.

    There are still units equipped with BMP-1´s. It´s a good idea to buy more BMP-3´s and to modernise older ones and BMP-2´s until the Kurganets-25 is officially put into service.
    avatar
    nero

    Posts : 85
    Points : 85
    Join date : 2019-03-26

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  nero on Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:49 pm

    calripson wrote:They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    And which NATO IFV's are you talking about, exactly?

    Russia already has a store of over 800-900 of BMP-3's (few thousands more of BMP-2). Crewed are trained to operate them and they are in active service for quite a long while now. The kinks and problems, in addition to the limitations of the vehicle are well known. Operators abundant.

    The Armata platform is currently undergoing massive tests. It will also have to procure a large amount of factories to build such vehicles, before they can be seriously considered to even start replacing older, Soviet armored units.

    All of this will likely only start happening in the mid/late 2020's as the platform is supposed to replace pretty much all armored vehicles in the Russian ground forces.
    avatar
    DerWolf

    Posts : 93
    Points : 93
    Join date : 2015-12-06

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  DerWolf on Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:22 pm

    calripson wrote:
    Isos wrote:1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    11h
    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).

    They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    Does Kurganets-25 have active protection system?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:07 am

    1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    Optics and electronics/comms systems are probably a large fraction of that price, though modern ceramic armour probably adds to the base price as well.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    It is a low velocity gun so the performance is probably not good enough to warrant it.... armoured targets are generally engaged using gun fired missiles or the 30mm cannon with AP rounds. It is the only gun of its type so there is not much reason to warrant a wide range of ammo types and options.

    The Armata platform is currently undergoing massive tests. It will also have to procure a large amount of factories to build such vehicles, before they can be seriously considered to even start replacing older, Soviet armored units.

    The BMP-3 seems to be a more elite vehicle used in the better equipped formations, so such units will likely receive their Armata or Kurganets or Boomerang replacements, with their old BMP-3s being cascaded to other units.

    Does Kurganets-25 have active protection system?

    AFAIK all of the new vehicle families will have both active and passive protection... ie ARENA-2 and Afghansi and the successor to Drozd-2 for APS and Shtora upgrades as well as other interesting systems like those audio shot spotting systems and laser detection systems and enemy scope or optics detection systems etc etc
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6183
    Points : 6175
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Isos on Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:11 am

    Kurganetsified bmp-3 Manul.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Egf9zw10

    LMFS likes this post

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6110
    Points : 6261
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:48 pm

    Isos wrote:Kurganetsified bmp-3 Manul.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Egf9zw10

    With the introduction of the epoch turret to the BMP-3 series it seems like they're going to now split their roles up more. Epoch turreted ones will like be dedicated APC's, the 100/30 combo turrets will be dedicated BMPT's, the 57mm turret version will either be gun SHORAD/IFV/Light anti-armor, the Sosna version will be heavy SHORAD and the 125mm Spruts will be dedicated heavy anti-armor.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 25917
    Points : 26463
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:16 am

    I would not read too much in to it... I suspect the epoch turret will become standard, but will be armed with a 30mm cannon or a 57mm grenade launcher or the 57mm high velocity gun as standard.

    Effectively the 8 Bulat and four Ataka missiles will replace the 100mm gun most of the time, though the 57mm grenade launcher would compensate for the loss of HE power with powerful HE round but also AP rounds rather more powerful than 30mm rounds...

    The new turrets they are developing are intended to fit most chassis and are supposed to be modular... when they start changing their armoured forces into unified vehicle families they can use the turrets to help with the transition... these are unmanned turrets so the crew positions will take up room in the hull so a BMP-3 will have fewer people inside but its crew layout wont be as well laid out as it would be in the Boomerang or Kurganets or Armata which were designed from the start to have all crew and troops in the hull.

    For export this design with the BMP-3 means you can try their new technology with the current chassis and get it much sooner and without needing to wait for the Kurganets to be cleared for export.

    It should also be a significant improvement in communications and electronics and sensors and optics and also in weapon accuracy.

    Nice big side armour addons and clearly an APS fitted too.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6110
    Points : 6261
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:00 pm

    Russian BMP-3 equipped with guidance and vision system `Parallax' can be controlled with VR glasses

    Parallax controls the battle. The first "transparent armor" for robotics was created in Russia
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 5707979

    At the international forum Army-2020, the Signal Research Institute presented a number of robotic vehicles capable of changing the course of hostilities at a tactical level

    The defense-industrial complex (DIC) of a number of countries is developing solutions aimed at maximizing the simplification of the actions of the Ground Forces units in battle. One of the current trends in the development of technology is its robotization, which makes it possible to automate the performance of a combat mission, increase the efficiency and coherence of actions, and also minimize the level of losses.

    It is premature to talk about the dominance of robotics on the modern battlefield, but there are already examples that can have a significant impact on the development of the direction in the future. At the moment, one of the main trends is the creation of specialized samples and the conversion of existing machines. Russia, being one of the most developed developers and manufacturers of robots, is developing both of the above directions.

    The domestic defense industry creates both combat robotics, for example, Uran-9, and multipurpose, in particular, the Uran-6 robotic demining system and the Uran-14 fire robot.

    One of the key issues arising in the creation of high-tech weapons is their cost and, more importantly, the ratio of cost and effectiveness. It is the high cost of development that often limits the ability of various armies to massively deploy robots - at the moment, no army in the world is deploying combat robotics in large quantities. In this context, designing on the basis of existing machines can give impetus to the combat use of robotics.

    The High-Precision Complexes holding (as part of the Rostec State Corporation) is one of the largest Russian developers of robotic systems, while the direct executor of work in this area is the Signal All-Russian Research Institute (JSC VNII Signal) The Institute is a Russian pioneer in the field of designing robots on the basis of existing technology We tell you about the novelties presented by the enterprise  at the forum "Army-2020".

    Parallax on the battlefield
    The "Parallax" surveillance and targeting system operates on the principle of "transparent armor". It is installed on the chassis of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle and turns it into a multifunctional combat robot, made with minimal modifications to the basic chassis model.

    Denis Varabin, deputy general director and project manager of Signal, told TASS that the BMP-3 chassis was chosen to participate in a variety of work to explore the possibilities of robotization. "We have ensured the possibility of the machine functioning in remote and automatic modes, but at the same time the crew control method is preserved," he said.

    According to him, the BMP-3, modernized within the framework of the Parallax program, is now capable of crossing water obstacles and firing afloat. “We robotic the basic functions of the sample. The vehicle can be equipped with different combat modules: the prototype, in particular, has a standard BMP-3 turret. We made it remote-controlled and equipped it with modern combat control technologies,” Varabin said. The combat module with "Parallax" is controlled using virtual reality glasses (virtual reality, VR).

    The operator puts on glasses and operates [the tower] by turning the head. A small-sized joystick is responsible for fire control. Everything is comfortable and receptive for the modern generation - Denis Varabin Deputy General Director - Project Manager VNII "Signal" wrote:

    The BMP-3, upgraded under the Parallax program, became the first Russian combat vehicle in which the principle of "transparent armor" is implemented (the operator, using various sensors, sees an integral and most realistic picture of the battle, but remains behind the armor or in cover). "There are no analogues of this technique in Russia," Varabin emphasized.

    The machine has fully retained its standard capabilities - so, troops can be loaded into it, and if necessary, the operator can turn on the remote or automatic control mode. Outwardly, the robotic BMP-3 is practically indistinguishable from conventional BMPs of this type.

    It has already implemented the function of automated route passage. The operator marks the points of passage on the map, after which the car begins to move along them. According to Varabin, work is currently underway on an autonomous control mode. "In this case, the operator sets the end point, after which the machine itself chooses the route and bends around obstacles, based on the sensor data," he clarifies.

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 5708113

    The new robotic system is controlled at long distances using a wearable or remote control panel. The operator's workplace is at a distance, while he can see the status of the machine and its condition. The commander can control several vehicles on the battlefield. Also, the mode is standardly implemented when he can intercept control instead of the shooter in case of injury to the latter. “We are trying to reduce the number of machine control devices by optimizing them and bringing them together in one window,” added Varabin.

    Thus, VNII "Signal" followed the path of robotizing an existing sample, rather than creating an absolutely new system. This approach, as noted above, is more economically efficient. Moreover, it allows the robotization of existing equipment during intermediate repairs.

    Varabin stressed that the BMP-3 equipped with Parallax is a prototype - a technology demonstrator, which is used to test various technical solutions.

    Different fighting compartments were installed on this sample - about five to six samples, which were robotized according to the same principle. We can also integrate the fighting squads of other developers. By and large, this is a set of technologies that, depending on specific requirements, can be integrated, as a rule, in a factory repair. - Denis Varabin Deputy General Director - Project Manager VNII "Signal"

    The developers are considering the possibility of further intellectualizing the machine. "In our opinion, it is necessary to form a decision support system. This will reduce the crew of a combat vehicle from three people [commander, driver, operator-gunner] to one [commander]. By issuing instructions to the computer and combat module, BMPs are excluded from the work , respectively, the driver-mechanic and the gunner-operator. Only the commander remains, who serves as a source of decision-making, "Varabin said, adding that in the future, vehicles with Parallax will be able to receive the function of a programmable sequence of targets.

    VNII "Signal" is also working to improve the virtual reality system, with which control is carried out. This will reduce the burden on the operator and increase the time to operate the machine.

    One of the features of the "Parallax" complex is its modular design - the robotization kit includes several systems that do not impair the ergonomics of the machine and provide remote control. "We take this set of robotic equipment and install it on various mobile objects. It includes drives and electromechanics for controlling controls, electrical control systems for reading machine data and remote control, navigation system, power supply system, additional systems for video surveillance and control traffic, as well as a communication system, "- said Varabin.

    "Passage" in a minefield
    During the Army-2015 exhibition, the Signal VNII presented a remote-controlled demining machine called the Pass. It is developed on the basis of the BMR-3MA combat vehicle and is intended for the engineering troops.
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 5708065

    Mikhail Kobyakin, head of the department for advanced development of the Signal All-Russian Research Institute, told TASS that the complex can neutralize all types of mines and simultaneously save the life of the crew. "The main task is to perform a combat mission while saving the life of the crew, since it is he who is primarily susceptible to a mine explosion. [When using the" Pass "] the operator, being at a distance, retains the technical ability to drive the car, while ensuring his complete safety." , - he said.

    "Passage" is made on the chassis of the T-90 tank. As part of this work, a set of attachments has been created, which requires minimal modifications during installation. Trawls of various types act as the main anti-mine device.

    This machine can be used with all types of trawls, both old and new. It neutralizes all types of mines, including those with contact and proximity fuses, and even anti-aircraft mines. "Pass" is also equipped with an electronic warfare (EW) complex, capable of suppressing the fuses of radio-controlled mines -Mikhail Kobyakin Head of the Department for Advanced Development, VNII "Signal"

    The new machine is controlled over a long distance using an anti-jamming communication channel. "We worked through the impact of separate [electronic warfare] complexes - there is a connection in any case," Kobyakin said. The complex also provides for the possibility of passing the demining machine at pre-programmed points. "The sample is also equipped with an additional software control mode: in case of failure of the control panel and in case of loss of communication, the machine stops, waits for some time, switches to the programmed control mode and goes along the set route without operator participation," he added. "Pass" also fully retained the manual control functions.

    Just like Parallax, Passage has a modular structure: its hardware and software can in the future be integrated into various engineering barrage vehicles (IMR) and armored recovery vehicles (ARVs), which in turn opens up tremendous opportunities for modernization of the entire fleet of engineering troops. "If there is interest, it is allowed to modernize existing engineering machines," added the specialist of the institute.

    As TASS was told by the Signal VNII, the car passed state tests and received the letter O1 (start of serial production). It is assumed that the export-oriented version of the "Pass" will be created by the end of 2020.

    Civil Service Robots
    VNII "Signal" integrates its latest robotic developments into civil engineering. In particular, according to Varabin, a remote-controlled truck based on Ural-Next was developed in conjunction with the Joint Engineering Center of GAZ Group, as well as the technology of movement of trucks in a convoy. "The column is headed by a remotely controlled vehicle, followed by other vehicles automatically without human intervention," he said.

    The company has also developed a robotic tracked fire engine "Pioneer" based on an all-terrain vehicle manufactured by Kurganmashzavod. It is capable of performing fire extinguishing in remote mode, which reduces the risks of exposure to elevated temperatures on the crew. It is noteworthy that it is also equipped with modular robotic equipment that does not impair the ergonomics of the machine and retains the manual control mode. The prototype "Pioneer" is also being demonstrated for the first time at "Army-2020".

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9242711

    GarryB likes this post

    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3395
    Points : 3427
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  franco on Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:09 pm

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    19h
    Hmm, Kurganmashzavod says that it completed a contract for BMP-3 deliveries to the MoD (to the ZVO) ahead of schedule and signed two new BMP-3 contracts for 2020-2022. KMZ said the next batch will exceed the current order. 6/
    https://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=

    NOTE: Present contracts were for 168 new units and 97 rebuilt upgraded units through 2021. New contracts are for 2020-2022 (previously announced at Arms Show) but not with any totals.
    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 277
    Points : 306
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty BMP-3

    Post  calripson on Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:53 am

    Why continue to spend money on BMP-3? Time to move 100% to new generation vehicles.

    Sponsored content

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Empty Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:36 am