Project 885: Yasen class

verkhoturye51 wrote:

Only why not to build 12-14 but only 7?

They said they want cheaper alternative (Husky).

sure but before Husky will developed, tested and goes in series RuN needs to wait 10 years? now many subs have extended service life but this wont be forever.  Yasens are good subs thus increasing their number does make sense.

Tests of the atomic multipurpose submarine "Kazan", the head submarine of the improved project 855M "Ash-M", are not easy, because the project found flaws. About itRIA News said the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov.

"Testing boats are not easy. First of all, we are talking about working out control systems, which are used for the first time on this submarine. In addition, I will not hide, a number of design flaws emerged," he said.

According to him, USC will try to complete the testing of submarines before the end of the year. But it is still unknown whether it will be possible to transfer the submarine to the customer at the same time. "The question remains open," said Alexei Rakhmanov.

hoom wrote:Some problems with Kazan
https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%887/

Tests of the atomic multipurpose submarine "Kazan", the head submarine of the improved project 855M "Ash-M", are not easy, because the project found flaws. About itRIA News said the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov.

"Testing boats are not easy. First of all, we are talking about working out control systems, which are used for the first time on this submarine. In addition, I will not hide, a number of design flaws emerged," he said.

According to him, USC will try to complete the testing of submarines before the end of the year. But it is still unknown whether it will be possible to transfer the submarine to the customer at the same time. "The question remains open," said Alexei Rakhmanov.

Not too surprising given its a big upgrade on Severodvinsk but kinda disappointing given how delayed that one was.

marat wrote:Maybee not even in 2020

"It is absolutely unrealistic to accomplish all this by the end of the year. It is not ruled out that the entire year 2020 will be required and the Sevmash Shipyard will be able to deliver the sub to the Fleet only in 2021," the source said.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1058768

"According to the results of mooring tests, as well as the winter phase of factory running tests (completed in January - TASS approx.) It was found that a number of auxiliary units and assemblies of the ship did not meet the requirements of the tactical and technical tasks of the Ministry of Defense, including reliability at the dock, "Sevmash", -. the spokesman said

The source noted that the revision systems will take at least several months, after which the "Kazan" to be a few more times to go to sea, first as part of the factory, and then state tests. " Execute all of this before the end of the year is absolutely impossible. It is possible that this will take the whole year of 2020 and Sevmash will be able to transfer Kazan to the fleet only in 2021, ”he said.

The interlocutor of the agency added that since the beginning of the year the submarine has been on Sevmash for maintenance and elimination of comments.

Arrow wrote:So Russia has a huge problem with building new SSNs. Older SSNs will be withdrawn in 10 years. Russia may stay with 4 new SSNs. Problems from Kazan can be extended for subsequent years. The situation in the Russian atomic submarine fleet looks dramatic.

It is normal, Kazan is the first Russian made nuclear attack submarine, most probably the most advanced on the earth. wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

Arrow wrote:So Russia has a huge problem with building new SSNs. Older SSNs will be withdrawn in 10 years. Russia may stay with 4 new SSNs. Problems from Kazan can be extended for subsequent years. The situation in the Russian atomic submarine fleet looks dramatic.

Can't say that it is a huge problem.


It is normal, Kazan is the first Russian made nuclear attack submarine, most probably the most advanced on the earth.

Problems can be expected, but every issue fixed will speed up the delivery of the next units.

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

Arrow wrote:So Russia has a huge problem with building new SSNs. Older SSNs will be withdrawn in 10 years. Russia may stay with 4 new SSNs. Problems from Kazan can be extended for subsequent years. The situation in the Russian atomic submarine fleet looks dramatic.

Can't say that it is a huge problem.


It is normal, Kazan is the first Russian made nuclear attack submarine, most probably the most advanced on the earth.

Problems can be expected, but every issue fixed will speed up the delivery of the next units.

It's a massive problem, according to original plan half of the subs were supposed to be in service already

It may be most advanced or worst junk ever, it doesn't matter because it's not being delivered, no additional ones are laid down and nothing new is being built

Any expected delivery​ speed increase will not have the chance to take effect because there are not enough subs planned or ordered for something like that to be felt

They can talk about Huskies all they want, it doesn't matter when they can't compete current project

And Huskies are supposed to be inferior platform with supposedly lower price (when was last time price was lower?) which pretty much amounts to throwing in the towel

If only price were a problem they would just have to order more Yasens to get price to go down

Singular_Transform wrote:...By the available information it can be a case when the Kazan is in better shape now than say a virginia class submarine.

Singular_Transform wrote:...And it has diving certificate, that is not issue for many US submarine .

PapaDragon wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:...By the available information it can be a case when the Kazan is in better shape now than say a virginia class submarine.

Excuse me?

Virginia has been made in double digits already and has far superior track record. Yasen barely has one because they barely exist. One completed and one in tests. That's it.

Singular_Transform wrote:...And it has diving certificate, that is not issue for many US submarine .

Are you clinging to paperwork here?

Not that it matters because USN has far stricter safety regulations.

They haven't lost a sub since USS Scorpion and that was in 1968.

hoom wrote:There are 5 more Yasens already in construction.
Rather than laying down new ones I'd like to see some of them actually finished.

Likewise there are already 4 Boreis in construction.

Vladimir79 wrote:.....

With the first three Boreis being constructed from left over Akula and Oscar hulls it is hard to find cost savings on the Yasen or new Boreis that have a new design. With anything that is completely new there are associated trial and error costs. As both of these programmes were started long ago and the delays bring them closer to obsolescence with every passing year, it might be better to cut the production run and come up with something cheaper.

PapaDragon wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:.....

With the first three Boreis being constructed from left over Akula and Oscar hulls it is hard to find cost savings on the Yasen or new Boreis that have a new design.  With anything that is completely new there are associated trial and error costs.  As both of these programmes were started long ago and the delays bring them closer to obsolescence with every passing year, it might be better to cut the production run and come up with something cheaper.    

Cutting production runs and thinking they will come up with something cheaper is precisely how they ended up in this mess. Russia is only country trying this with ships and to nobody's surprise failing miserably.

You can't get economy of scale unless you get the scale part done first.


Borei has sufficient number of hulls, they have Borei-B​ version designed and Khabarovsk-class is Borei derivative.

They need to keep at it and also get Borei-K SSGN in production, they have no reason to drag their feet on this.


As for Yasens they need to fix the crap on Kazan and order more boats in the meantime, whatever issues are with Kazan they will have enough time to catch it on others.


Ohios and Akulas are older than me and are nowhere near obsolescence, Yasens and especially Boreis will be fine for quite a while.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Wut?  Obsolescence?  If you think Borei A and Yasen-M are in any way "obsolescent" what do you think of the SSBNs/SSNs of Western navies???  or Chinese.