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Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

GarryB

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Post n°326

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

GarryB on Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:19 am

I think people get caught up in terms of range and forget what rocket based artillery is for... what is the likelyhood of a Smerch unit getting requests to hit targets 3 or 400km away from their position?

Designing a rocket with enormous range is not that difficult but you end up making the rocket bigger and heavier than it needs to be while at the same time having to limit the payload which is the whole purpose of the weapon... to deliver the payload in volume to a target area...

The-thing-next-door

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Post n°327

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

The-thing-next-door on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:18 am

GarryB wrote:I think people get caught up in terms of range and forget what rocket based artillery is for... what is the likelyhood of a Smerch unit getting requests to hit targets 3 or 400km away from their position?

Designing a rocket with enormous range is not that difficult but you end up making the rocket bigger and heavier than it needs to be while at the same time having to limit the payload which is the whole purpose of the weapon... to deliver the payload in volume to a target area...

The point is that using nuclear warheads with your long range MRLS rockets allows you to literally flatten every manmade thing in half of poland ind ukraine within minutes, qite useful when you need to kull a horde such as nato.

You will probably say "but they have Iskanders and Kalibrs for that" but tell me, do you honestly think that they will have enough of thoes to fire at any potential staging area in eastern europe in sufficient quantities to kill any potential military formations?

Sujoy

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Post n°328

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

Sujoy on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:06 pm

Video of the new guided missile for Tornado-S

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2793271617573738&extid=IMG74AfqZjdGlski

RTN

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Post n°329

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

RTN on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:46 pm

GarryB wrote:Designing a rocket with enormous range is not that difficult but you end up making the rocket bigger and heavier than it needs to be while at the same time having to limit the payload which is the whole purpose of the weapon... to deliver the payload in volume to a target area...

These Tornado -S guided rockets will be intercepted by NATO by using the SkyShield AD system.

The state of the art AHEAD projectile is programmed by a muzzle based electromagnetic inductor, which sets an electronic timer to activate and separate the projectile into 152 heavy tungsten metal spin-stabilized sub-projectiles (3.3 gram each), forming a lethal cone shaped metal cloud, placed ahead of the target in its flight path.

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/public_relations/news/detail_1359.php

GarryB

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Post n°330

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

GarryB on Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:27 pm

The theory is great, but how many HATO nations have the guns and that ammo in service... vs how many 300mm Smerch rockets the Russians are making...

The point is that using nuclear warheads with your long range MRLS rockets allows you to literally flatten every manmade thing in half of poland ind ukraine within minutes, qite useful when you need to kull a horde such as nato.

That is true but the cost of loading up 300mm nuclear warheads and then the problem will be making them fall far enough apart that they don't overlap too much in terms of destruction.

The real problem is that HATO forces will only be concentrating in specific areas so blanket destroying the entire territory is rather inefficient and not particularly effective.

Destroying major population centres would be much more efficient...

You will probably say "but they have Iskanders and Kalibrs for that" but tell me, do you honestly think that they will have enough of thoes to fire at any potential staging area in eastern europe in sufficient quantities to kill any potential military formations?

There is no point in destroying a staging area that is empty... the whole point of hitting a staging area is the high concentration of enemy in terms of people and material including vehicles and fuel and munitions all come together in a staging area... so when you detect one you wait till it is full before you nuke it.... and one warhead should do... you wont need 12 warheads from one Smerch vehicle or more from a Smerch battery.

Isos

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Post n°331

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

Isos on Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:34 pm

RTN wrote:

GarryB wrote:Designing a rocket with enormous range is not that difficult but you end up making the rocket bigger and heavier than it needs to be while at the same time having to limit the payload which is the whole purpose of the weapon... to deliver the payload in volume to a target area...

These Tornado -S guided rockets will be intercepted by NATO by using the SkyShield AD system.

The state of the art AHEAD projectile is programmed by a muzzle based electromagnetic inductor, which sets an electronic timer to activate and separate the projectile into 152 heavy tungsten metal spin-stabilized sub-projectiles (3.3 gram each), forming a lethal cone shaped metal cloud, placed ahead of the target in its flight path.

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/public_relations/news/detail_1359.php

It's still a 35mm gun with an effective range of 3 or so km.

Russia isn't Hamas or Hezbollah. They don't launch two or three rockets per salvo. They usually have around ten MLRS firing all their rockets at the same time. When the guys in that gun AD system will see hundreds of small targets coming at them they will run away as fast as they can.

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RTN

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Post n°332

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

RTN on Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:49 pm

Isos wrote:
It's still a 35mm gun with an effective range of 3 or so km.

Russia isn't Hamas or Hezbollah. They don't launch two or three rockets per salvo. They usually have around ten MLRS firing all their rockets at the same time. When the guys in that gun AD system will see hundreds of small targets coming at them they will run away as fast as they can.

NATO isn't Hamas or Hezbollah either. Hundreds of incoming Russian MLRS will be intercepted by a few hundred Sky Shield fired AHEAD rounds.

Isos

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Post n°333

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

Isos on Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:00 pm

RTN wrote:

Isos wrote:
It's still a 35mm gun with an effective range of 3 or so km.

Russia isn't Hamas or Hezbollah. They don't launch two or three rockets per salvo. They usually have around ten MLRS firing all their rockets at the same time. When the guys in that gun AD system will see hundreds of small targets coming at them they will run away as fast as they can.

NATO isn't Hamas or Hezbollah either. Hundreds of incoming Russian MLRS will be intercepted by a few hundred Sky Shield fired AHEAD rounds.

Not really. They will never buy that many systems. Germany might buy 30 or 40 but not more.

When I say russia launch hundreds of them, I mean hundreds in 1 salvo of 10 vehicles and at the same area. NATO cab't have 100 SHORADS at a same place. They will most likely have around a 100 of such system in service all togather.

Such system is good against 1 or 2 rocket fired at a same time and even then they need to prove they can detect rockets and more with that system.

Any IADS is useless against a salvo of rockets fired by multiple MRLS at a same area.

Regular

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Post n°334

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

Regular on Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:15 pm

RTN wrote:

Isos wrote:
It's still a 35mm gun with an effective range of 3 or so km.

Russia isn't Hamas or Hezbollah. They don't launch two or three rockets per salvo. They usually have around ten MLRS firing all their rockets at the same time. When the guys in that gun AD system will see hundreds of small targets coming at them they will run away as fast as they can.

NATO isn't Hamas or Hezbollah either. Hundreds of incoming Russian MLRS will be intercepted by a few hundred Sky Shield fired AHEAD rounds.

Reality shows that it's impossible to stop MLRS or heavy barrage. It would be saturated. It's easier to defend against air power.

kvs

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Post n°335

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

kvs on Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:29 pm

Regular wrote:

RTN wrote:

Isos wrote:
It's still a 35mm gun with an effective range of 3 or so km.

Russia isn't Hamas or Hezbollah. They don't launch two or three rockets per salvo. They usually have around ten MLRS firing all their rockets at the same time. When the guys in that gun AD system will see hundreds of small targets coming at them they will run away as fast as they can.

NATO isn't Hamas or Hezbollah either. Hundreds of incoming Russian MLRS will be intercepted by a few hundred Sky Shield fired AHEAD rounds.

Reality shows that it's impossible to stop MLRS or heavy barrage. It would be saturated. It's easier to defend against air power.

Every western prick "knows" about Soviet "human wave" attacks (that never happened) but has zero clue about such details. With such utter ignorance
it is easy to sell all sorts of magic BS about invincibility of NATzO and its alien level high tech wunderwaffen.

The-thing-next-door

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Post n°336

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

The-thing-next-door on Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:02 pm

RTN wrote:
NATO isn't Hamas or Hezbollah either. Hundreds of incoming Russian MLRS will be intercepted by a few hundred Sky Shield fired AHEAD rounds.

So you seriously believe that not only will these systems magically have 100% kill probability, but there will also be a couple of dozen of them within a kilometer of every single large troop formation?

This rivals some of the defeatist nonsense on this forum in terms of stupidity.

GarryB

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Post n°337

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

GarryB on Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:53 am

Russia has a rather well developed and well equipped IADS but even they don't claim to be ready to shoot down all HATO rockets fired in their direction.

The task for HATO to do the same is 1000s of times worse... and the simple fact is that there are lots of things you can do to make it even harder... the standard anti armour rocket payload has about 6 submunitions per rocket with MMW radar sensors and IR sensors that are launched to be released above the target... at quite high altitudes initially so by the time those guns can start engaging the munitions themselves each single rocket will have turned into 6 guided anti tank submunitions plus the rocket and empty rocket tube... if they don't see the kills they expect next time they will just start launching more rockets... they have plenty.... one of the cheaper model simply has top attack HEAT submunitions... just over 640 per rocket that just fall in a pattern around the point of aim that can penetrate 10-20cm of top armour... a single vehicle would therefore launch 12 rockets at a staging area, which means about 7,600 odd HEAT submunitions falling from the sky at once... they also have a fragmentation effect so they are used against both armour and troops and positions including air defence positions...

And that has been in service for more than 35 years....

Isos

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Post n°338

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

Isos on Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:05 pm

Russia has a rather well developed and well equipped IADS but even they don't claim to be ready to shoot down all HATO rockets fired in their direction.

The rockets come at the same time. IADS can be as good as you want they will always be limited by the number of engaged targets simultanously.

Only Israeli stupid fanboys believe their iron dome can counter such attack.

Only system that can do something is the laser in the old black and white video games when you need to protect your spaceship from asteroides.

flamming_python

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Post n°339

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

flamming_python on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:51 pm

It's better to use passive defensive systems for the purpose of stopping a barrage; such as the Russian Rtut-BM, which jams the proximity fuses and attempts to cause self-detonation

There is no guarantee for success of course as there are many different models and constructions of munitions with their respective sensors and fuses, but it's a far more cost-effective approach towards defending against rocket barrages, and the system is potentially capable of protecting against all rockets of specific types with a 100% kill rate.

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George1

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Post n°340

Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

George1 on Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:46 am

High-precision missile for the Tornado-S system

Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 14 83660710

It looks like they built their own "alder", however, the approach to correction here is different, by installing an autonomous control compartment (as for 122 mm missiles).

The head enterprise for the development of ground and sea-based multiple launch rocket systems is the scientific and production association "SPLAV" named after A.N. Ganicheva (part of the Technodinamika holding) - at the Army-2020 international military-technical forum demonstrated the construction of a new high-precision guided 300-mm rocket projectile for the Tornado-S MLRS 9K515. The new projectile - 9M544 with cumulative fragmentation submunitions - became the first in the line of controlled ones. It uses a control system based on the SN398 strapdown inertial navigation system from the Scientific and Production Center for Automation and Instrumentation named after N.A. Pilyugin.

Video from the exhibition with comments:

And a summer video from NPO Splav is already in production:

Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 14 B16

Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 14 B16

Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S - Page 14 A16

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4135270.html

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Russia Defence Forum

Russian MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch, Tornado-G/S

High-precision missile for the Tornado-S system