The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

More delusional Poro. As to the oversight in not putting any money in the 2016 budget to prosecute corruption cases, I bet that went down well in the EU and IMF. Via Interfax

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is confident that Ukraine will manage to compensate the losses from the closure of the Russian market for Ukrainian producers in several years with the help of the deep and comprehensive free trade area (DCFTA) between Ukraine and the EU. "We're introducing the deep and comprehensive free trade area, we will introduce it less than in one month, from January 1, despite the resistance and pressure from Kreml… I have no doubt: in several years the agreement will compensate all the losses our national economy, the national budget, social area of the country and the purse of each Ukrainian faced due to the aggressive closure of its market for the Ukrainian market by Russia – we will overcome that," Poroshenko said on Saturday, speaking at the forum of members of local councils from Petro Poroshenko Bloc's Solidarity.

The president hopes that the European Commission will make a positive decision on the establishment of the visa-free regime for Ukrainian citizens shortly. Poroshenko said that the key value for his party was European and Euro-Atlantic choice.

He said that further steps on decentralization of power are required in the country. The president said that the fate of peace in eastern Ukraine depends on the amendments to the Constitution in part of decentralization. "It happened that now the issue of the peace in Donbas is tightly linked to the decentralization issue. The moment of final voting for amendments to the Constitution is gradually approaching, and I have no doubt that it would be not easy to get this decision," Poroshenko said.

The president said that the main tasks for the next year would be efficient struggle against corruption and achievement of sustainable peace in Donbas.

The head of state informed that he had found out about the absence of funds for the anti-corruption prosecution in the state budget 2016. "I think it is a misunderstanding and a technical error, which will be corrected immediately," Poroshenko said.

http://novorossia.today/dpr-intelligence-reports-have-spotted-kiev-junta-movements-of-heavy-weapons-and-military-hardware-at-frontline/

Nazi Ukrainian forces have moved 434 units of military equipment to the contact line/front lines with the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), DPR defense ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin said on Monday.
We regularly register violations of the Minsk Agreements by Ukrainian Junta forces – concentration of heavy weaponry along the entire contact line,” Donetsk News Agency quoted Basurin as saying.

The DPR defense ministry presented the latest report on movement of weaponry in Donbass. According to Basurin, at least 325 units of military equipment are concentrated on the Gorlovka direction, including 56 self-propelled artillery systems and Grad multiple rocket launcher systems, 84 units on the Donetsk direction, including 34 howitzers, self-propelled artillery systems and multiple rocket launcher systems, and 35 units on the Mariupol direction, including 10 howitzers and multiple rocket launcher systems.


Weapons and military equipment were spotted on the entire territory of the Donetsk Region, both in close proximity to the contact line and in areas far from it. “By these and many other examples of their criminal activities, official Kiev Junta demonstrates in front of the international community its reluctance and lack of understanding of the settlement of the conflict in the south-east by peaceful means,” the spokesman stressed.


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Comment:

Artillery numbers remain the same, but there is an increase of 200 tanks and armored vehicles in the Gorlovka sector

Akula971 wrote:Serious question - Why do you think Russian MSM should cover this ? They are busy with Syria at the moment.

A Cossack commander in LNR was blown up on his way to his own wedding. His driver also died in the attack. This comes at a time when Ukraine is constantly shelling donbass for a few days already.

The People's prosecutor said an enquiry will be made into this.

End of story.

You want to read this in the newspaper ??

The LNR and DNR armies have changed a lot as compared to pre-Debaltsevo or even after Debaltsevo. its not free reign anymore. He was just a military commander now, not anyone of power. Please understand this and dont spread hysteria. Kremlin has nothing to gain from this. Neither does Igor or anyone in LNR.

Russian media have covered this, that is why I gave an example to show that they are and that it is the foreign facing arms of the media who do not, which is rather odd considering the long pattern of these strange murders in LNR. A strange lack of inquisitiveness I think.

Spreading hysteria

Hm, I have been rather diplomatic in my posts about this affair, unlike some who desperately want all discussion silenced. Why do you want me to be quiet by the way, why are you so upset, or whatever, that I simply join up dots. Look, Ishchenko, dead, and here is a dot . where does it lead, lets follow....... Bednov, and look, more dots, follow on to...... Mozgovoi, holy crap, yet more dots, and where to this time........ Dremov. What joins these dots, all in LNR, all have crossed paths with Plotinisky and did not share his politics and did not like thieves and corrupt people. Odd there has been no attempt on any other commanders in Lugansk, only those not in favor with Plotnitsky, but I guess to point this out is "hysteria"

The People's prosecutor said an enquiry will be made into this

Yes, of course they will, and I am sure it will be as diligent as the investigations into the murders of Ishchenko, Bednov and Mozgovoi, which have so far found ? diddly...

Makhnovshchina has long gone, mostly when Kozitsyn left Donbass. To say or imply in any way that Dremov was still playing at makhnovshchina, and so excuse his murder, is absurd as he fell into line long ago, besides, at the beginning when there was no VSN, then essentially everybody was playing the makhnovshchina game as everybody was essentially a revolutionary or a rebel. Without men forming their own armies at the beginning, Kiev would have walked all over Donbass last year even before June. Last year I spoke often about the problem of maknovshchina in LNR and that all the private armies should be under one leader and one command structure, this happened of course, but it was never an issue that needed bullets to the back of the head, and Dremov or Mozgovoi were hardly the new Makhno.

This comes at a time when Ukraine is constantly shelling donbass for a few days already.

More than a few days, and mostly, as always, around Donetsk. Your comment is a non sequiter to the murder of Dremov between Stakhanov and Pervomaisk. Apart from one feeble attempt on Givi a long time ago now, no DNR commander has been assasinated or had an attempt made, only LNR commanders who are not in Plotnitsky's favor, and not part of the Lugansk clique. Ishchenko was mayor of Pervomaisk, but his politics did not suit Lugansk, so he is dead. Mozgovoi in Alchevsk with the "wrong" politics, now dead, Dremov with the "wrong" politics in Stakhanov, now dead. Bednov was a little different, but still with the other three in ideas, now dead. But hey, let us chew snot because thinking about why a few "commies" are dead is too difficult, and inconvenient, so let's all get drunk and forget all these bad inconvenient things. Hm...

Ispan wrote:http://novorossia.today/dpr-intelligence-reports-have-spotted-kiev-junta-movements-of-heavy-weapons-and-military-hardware-at-frontline/

Nazi Ukrainian forces have moved 434 units of military equipment to the contact line/front lines with the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), DPR defense ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin said on Monday.
We regularly register violations of the Minsk Agreements by Ukrainian Junta forces – concentration of heavy weaponry along the entire contact line,” Donetsk News Agency quoted Basurin as saying.

The DPR defense ministry presented the latest report on movement of weaponry in Donbass. According to Basurin, at least 325 units of military equipment are concentrated on the Gorlovka direction, including 56 self-propelled artillery systems and Grad multiple rocket launcher systems, 84 units on the Donetsk direction, including 34 howitzers, self-propelled artillery systems and multiple rocket launcher systems, and 35 units on the Mariupol direction, including 10 howitzers and multiple rocket launcher systems.


Weapons and military equipment were spotted on the entire territory of the Donetsk Region, both in close proximity to the contact line and in areas far from it. “By these and many other examples of their criminal activities, official Kiev Junta demonstrates in front of the international community its reluctance and lack of understanding of the settlement of the conflict in the south-east by peaceful means,” the spokesman stressed.


-----------------------------------------------------------



Comment:

Artillery numbers remain the same, but there is an increase of 200 tanks and armored vehicles in the Gorlovka sector

I wonder were the Pion batteries are now. It was back in June or July that we saw them with Turchinov's travelling Potemkin village, and I wonder now many of the nearly 100 they have in stock have been refurbished. All went quiet on them showing wonderful toys since summer, been busy rolling them out of the repair shops I guess. I wonder if they have a clever integrated and concentrated artillery fire plan so they can bring down heavy bombardment of the type needed for an offensive, and at very short notice to keep detection to a minumum, at any breakthro point or points along the front. No, they are too stupid, or....

If the UA doesn't get you, the Border Guard will. From Interfax.

The State Border Guard Service of Ukraine in 2016 will resume military conscription, which was canceled in 2008.

"As for the near-term prospects, we are forced in spring as a temporary measure to renew calling for military service. This is necessary to fulfill the tasks that are determined by the laws, the Ukrainian people and the time," Head of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine Viktor Nazarenko said in an exclusive interview with Interfax-Ukraine.

According to him, this step is connected with the expected mass demobilization in March 2016.

Khepesh wrote:
I wonder were the Pion batteries are now. It was back in June or July that we saw them with Turchinov's travelling Potemkin village, and I wonder now many of the nearly 100 they have in stock have been refurbished. All went quiet on them showing wonderful toys since summer, been busy rolling them out of the repair shops I guess. I wonder if they have a clever integrated and concentrated artillery fire plan so they can bring down heavy bombardment of the type needed for an offensive, and at very short notice to keep detection to a minumum, at any breakthro point or points along the front. No, they are too stupid, or....

Very interesting point. The UA Future Strategy Department will have been crawling with Western officers both giving advice and absorbing Russian type artillery tactics. I would say, as you imply, that serious work has been done in this area. Just in case, as they say.

Conversely, there will have been RA guys floating in and out of the DNR and LPR military HQs, watching the planning and advising. Whilst over the border there will be more planners war gaming what might happen.

Russia has shown that it is not prepared to abandon the occupants of these territories. After their moves over the past two months in Syria they are definitely not going to do so as any sign of weakness will be used against them over the next few years. Besides, there are some more products in need of real life sales demonstrations and the RA wants to prove a point. As I have said before, if Kiev tries to pull a fast one, especially saturation shelling, it must be highly likely that an artillery firestorm not seen for many a year will be unleashed from the 'East', especially if the locals are caught out of position. The co-ordinates are already programmed in. Just in case, as they say.

The Russian strategists have some really interesting options open to them. My favourite is the 'show them who's boss then get out' strategy. The objective being to minimise casualties on both sides (apart from the RS of course), push the borders back to the oblast markers, stop and hand over control back to the 'locals'. The main weapon being the 'panic' being generated by the public announcement of full Russian involvement along with an amnesty. The UA is not stupid, they have seem Syria on the TV, one suspects that even if they have to fight their way home they will. Oh, not forgetting a Kalibr though the roof of the SBU in Kiev, the Rostov must have a couple left and it is well positioned now.

Russia has nothing to lose now, in many ways the West has shot its bolt.

Oh yes, and finally, the US will not admit it but it will love it. Even if the Russians do the minimum and pull out, it will put the fear of God, quite unjustifiably in my opinion, into the EU governments, forcing them to spend more on US arms. Can you imagine the conversation on the Obama/Putin deeper than deep back channel?

The irony in this is that as 'stateless' persons the Separatists would probably have a better chance of getting into and staying in the EU with benefits, if they wanted to, than Ukrainians.

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko has welcomed an initiative of the authors of the petition regarding a possibility to deprive a citizenship of Ukraine for separatism.

"I can express its position as a president: I think that under conditions of war the country must have this instrument. I'll ask MPs for them to discuss this opportunity and to back the authors of the petition and president of Ukraine," he told the journalists in Kyiv when visiting Ukraina Polygraph Combine state-run enterprise. The president reminded that a respective petition, which was supported by many Ukrainians, has been already sent to Verkhovna Rada.

Poroshenko explained that under the Constitution of Ukraine it is impossible to deprive a person of Ukrainian citizenship if he was born in Ukraine and is its citizen. "But another thing is when the citizenship of Ukraine is acquired, there are certain rights, and it requires amendments into Constitution and legislation of Ukraine," he said.

JohninMK wrote:The irony in this is that as 'stateless' persons the Separatists would probably have a better chance of getting into and staying in the EU with benefits, if they wanted to, than Ukrainians.

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko has welcomed an initiative of the authors of the petition regarding a possibility to deprive a citizenship of Ukraine for separatism.

"I can express its position as a president: I think that under conditions of war the country must have this instrument. I'll ask MPs for them to discuss this opportunity and to back the authors of the petition and president of Ukraine," he told the journalists in Kyiv when visiting Ukraina Polygraph Combine state-run enterprise. The president reminded that a respective petition, which was supported by many Ukrainians, has been already sent to Verkhovna Rada.

Poroshenko explained that under the Constitution of Ukraine it is impossible to deprive a person of Ukrainian citizenship if he was born in Ukraine and is its citizen. "But another thing is when the citizenship of Ukraine is acquired, there are certain rights, and it requires amendments into Constitution and legislation of Ukraine," he said.

Poroshenko saying this, to me, doesn't even make sense and is laughable. If they are no longer a citizen of Ukraine, then what are they a citizen of? Nothingville? Stateless? What else can Poroshenko and company do to Donbass citizens? They've killed them by strafing (or bombing), from an airplane, shot, murdered innocent civilians driving down a highway, shot innocent civilians in public, burned and bludgeoned and murdered ppl in Odessa, cut off pensions, trade and travel back and forth, no mail, no banking, murdered them with artillery, shelled hospitals, and schools, killed children and pregnant women, refused to allow humanitarian aid. Not allowed them to vote, disregarded their votes. If they are no longer a citizen of Ukraine, then what in the hell can Poroshenko and company do to someone who is no longer a Ukrainian citizen?? (that is legal according to world law, as if that matters at all).

If I was a Ukrainian I'd leave Ukraine and go to Donbass and /or Russia. If the citizens of Ukraine can't take their government back from Poroshenko and company ...God Almighty...

from John Delacour twitter
posted Dec 8, 2015

The Ukronazis are back in the delightful seaside ruin of Shirokino. Looting



For real?

This year?

...sigh...

Kiev Resuming the War in Donbass, Capturing Settlements Near Mariupol


http://southfront.org/important-kiev-is-attempting-to-restart-the-war-in-donbass-capturing-settlements-near-mariupol-photo/

The DNR has notified the OSCE of Ukraine’s Minsk agreement violations.

The Donetsk People’s Republic has sent a notification addressed to the OSCE on the facts of the capture of settlements along the front line by Ukrainian armed forces.

“We have sent appropriate letters addressed to Martin Saydika – the coordinator of the contact group in Minsk, as well as to the special monitoring mission of the OSCE – said in a statement, the Speaker of the Parliament of the Republic and head of the delegation of the NPT at the talks in Minsk Denis Pushilin. – We also call on the Normandy format to assess the actions of Kiev and prevent the resumption of full-scale hostilities, Due to the gross violations of the Minsk Agreement by Ukraine. “

Pushilin clarified that he is talking about the settlements of Pishevik, Pavlopol, Vinogradnoye, Gnutova, Shirokino, Bahmutovka and Zhovanka. According to the Speaker, the actions of the Ukrainian side is increasingly looking like attempts to escalate the conflict.

“During a time they are meant to be removing heavy weapons from the neutral zone, and the safety of residents should only be improving. It is Unacceptable.” Added Denis Pushilin.



Mikael Skillt bla bla bla says:
‏

Mariupol isnt depending on Poroshenko, Azov and volunteers will defend it with or without army

Khepesh wrote:

Akula971 wrote:Serious question - Why do you think Russian MSM should cover this ? They are busy with Syria at the moment.

A Cossack commander in LNR was blown up on his way to his own wedding. His driver also died in the attack. This comes at a time when Ukraine is constantly shelling donbass for a few days already.

The People's prosecutor said an enquiry will be made into this.

End of story.

You want to read this in the newspaper ??

The LNR and DNR armies have changed a lot as compared to pre-Debaltsevo or even after Debaltsevo. its not free reign anymore. He was just a military commander now, not anyone of power. Please understand this and dont spread hysteria. Kremlin has nothing to gain from this. Neither does Igor or anyone in LNR.

Russian media have covered this, that is why I gave an example to show that they are and that it is the foreign facing arms of the media who do not, which is rather odd considering the long pattern of these strange murders in LNR. A strange lack of inquisitiveness I think.

Spreading hysteria

Hm, I have been rather diplomatic in my posts about this affair, unlike some who desperately want all discussion silenced. Why do you want me to be quiet by the way, why are you so upset, or whatever, that I simply join up dots. Look, Ishchenko, dead, and here is a dot . where does it lead, lets follow....... Bednov, and look, more dots, follow on to...... Mozgovoi, holy crap, yet more dots, and where to this time........ Dremov. What joins these dots, all in LNR, all have crossed paths with Plotinisky and did not share his politics and did not like thieves and corrupt people. Odd there has been no attempt on any other commanders in Lugansk, only those not in favor with Plotnitsky, but I guess to point this out is "hysteria"

The People's prosecutor said an enquiry will be made into this

Yes, of course they will, and I am sure it will be as diligent as the investigations into the murders of Ishchenko, Bednov and Mozgovoi, which have so far found ? diddly...

Makhnovshchina has long gone, mostly when Kozitsyn left Donbass. To say or imply in any way that Dremov was still playing at makhnovshchina, and so excuse his murder, is absurd as he fell into line long ago, besides, at the beginning when there was no VSN, then essentially everybody was playing the makhnovshchina game as everybody was essentially a revolutionary or a rebel. Without men forming their own armies at the beginning, Kiev would have walked all over Donbass last year even before June. Last year I spoke often about the problem of maknovshchina in LNR and that all the private armies should be under one leader and one command structure, this happened of course, but it was never an issue that needed bullets to the back of the head, and Dremov or Mozgovoi were hardly the new Makhno.

This comes at a time when Ukraine is constantly shelling donbass for a few days already.

More than a few days, and mostly, as always, around Donetsk. Your comment is a non sequiter to the murder of Dremov between Stakhanov and Pervomaisk. Apart from one feeble attempt on Givi a long time ago now, no DNR commander has been assasinated or had an attempt made, only LNR commanders who are not in Plotnitsky's favor, and not part of the Lugansk clique. Ishchenko was mayor of Pervomaisk, but his politics did not suit Lugansk, so he is dead. Mozgovoi in Alchevsk with the "wrong" politics, now dead, Dremov with the "wrong" politics in Stakhanov, now dead. Bednov was a little different, but still with the other three in ideas, now dead. But hey, let us chew snot because thinking about why a few "commies" are dead is too difficult, and inconvenient, so let's all get drunk and forget all these bad inconvenient things. Hm...

I do not deny anything you say. There are dots. There is a trail. Things are going wrong but thats a dead end. There is no solid proof that its Kremlin or is it SVU sabotage forces or just some personal conflict in LNR that we dont know of , or like they said during Bednov - the mafia.

Hysteria in the sense of the blame game. No one ever gives proof or logic stating who is doing this after all. We end up speculating. I will let you know, the loss of these commanders was not easy on me. Yes they were opposed to Igor Plotnitsky's ideas. But is that the only 'logic train' ? This is blatantly obvious and would give Russia / Kremlin bad PR. The whole reason Kremlin agreed to this was was to get GOOD PR. They wont do anything like this. I never understood why they took out Bednov. This is why i believe the plot goes beyond this. Bednov is not just any guy. Guy was former intelligence and his ambush was well thought out. We are nearing his death anniversary (I even remember the dates, thats how much i looked up these commanders).

Akula971 wrote:
I do not deny anything you say. There are dots. There is a trail. Things are going wrong but thats a dead end. There is no solid proof that its Kremlin or is it SVU sabotage forces or just some personal conflict in LNR that we dont know of , or like they said during Bednov - the mafia.

Hysteria in the sense of the blame game. No one ever gives proof or logic stating who is doing this after all. We end up speculating. I will let you know, the loss of these commanders was not easy on me. Yes they were opposed to Igor Plotnitsky's ideas. But is that the only 'logic train' ? This is blatantly obvious and would give Russia / Kremlin bad PR. The whole reason Kremlin agreed to this was was to get GOOD PR. They wont do anything like this. I never understood why they took out Bednov. This is why i believe the plot goes beyond this. Bednov is not just any guy. Guy was former intelligence and his ambush was well thought out. We are nearing his death anniversary (I even remember the dates, thats how much i looked up these commanders).

Please note that I have never pointed finger at Kremlin or Putin and that is because I believe it is entirely an internal matter for LNR. To keep asscociating my posts about about this affair with an attack on Kremlin is wrong and is being disingenous, to put it politely.

Do not overestimate Plotnitsky's intelligence or underestimate his desire to maintain power, and the desire for power blinds people at times and they do not see like those who observe. To put these murders down to Kiev trying at the least to cause embarrasment, and at the most turmoil in LNR, is to greatly overestimate their intelligence and abilities.

On this forum I have simply pointed out the obvious, which annoys some posters to the extent that they want my silence and this affair not spoken of. Well, I suggest anybody who does not like even my diplomatic posts about this should enter Russian networks, including local Donbass forums, and see what is written there, and it is not diplomatic at all and they will not like what they read. Therefore, it has struck me as very odd that Russian media have covered Dremov's death, Russian networks are full of a lot of heat about Lugansk, yet here on an Anglophone forum for fans of Russian military equipment there is almost silence, and horror at any mention of it. Do I really need to go into an analysis of why I think this is so?, no, for it will cause unneccesary friction.

If Kozitsyn had remained in Donbass he would likely have been killed by now. So now Dremov has been killed there are no more obvious high profile targets, and likely this nonsense has ended with his death. For me now the dog barked and the caravan moved on with this affair, but I think it will be back in the future when we learn of the retribution. Certainly killing Mozgovoi will be a death sentence to whoever ordered it and all who carried out those orders, and they will swing just as those responsible for Odessa and all the other deaths.

Khepesh wrote:

If Kozitsyn had remained in Donbass he would likely have been killed by now. So now Dremov has been killed there are no more obvious high profile targets, and likely this nonsense has ended with his death. For me now the dog barked and the caravan moved on with this affair, but I think it will be back in the future when we learn of the retribution. Certainly killing Mozgovoi will be a death sentence to whoever ordered it and all who carried out those orders, and they will swing just as those responsible for Odessa and all the other deaths.

I think we in the West, where the police/legal/justice systems are probably more robust for most of the population than in other parts of the world, overlook that justice can be implemented in a much more 'grass roots' manner. It does of course happen that way in the West but very much hidden from the rest of us. Elsewhere it has to be that way due to it, in many cases, being the only way. As you imply, there is no time limit and rough justice can be served much more safely when it is served very cold and out of the blue.

We also overlook the settling of scores and territory in the world of gangs, whilst having no idea at all of the degree of corruption in a country like Ukraine where such structures are rampant. Just because there is a barrier, the ceasefire line, does not mean that there has been a huge cultural shift to the East of that line away from the ways of Ukraine into a less corrupt society. Quite the reverse in fact, as that barrier has opened up all kinds of new profit opportunities, many enforced by the, now everywhere, barrel of a gun. It makes those with a different more honest ethos, who perhaps only rose to any significance, so therefore a potential threat, due to the war, very vulnerable as we have seen.

I think even Washington has been surprised at the extent of just how different Ukraine is compared to anywhere else in Europe. We even had Biden last week saying that there was no point in running new elections in Ukraine as the result would be the same as the last one due to the effect of the regional 'power blocks' i.e. gangs run by oligarchs.

We are less than 1 week away from Kiev's default. Ukraine's debt to Russia is something that the IMF simply can't ignore. And now Franklin Templeton has refused to restructure Kiev's debt which is $250 million ( http://www.vestifinance.ru/articles/65471 ) (Can anyone confirm this?) So that puts extra pain on them. IMF's recent decision to keep funding countries after they default is nice and dandy but it won't attract investors, it's only going to scare them off. All of this leads to infighting in the Rada. We all saw how a MP disrespected Yatsenyuk in front of everyone. Now we have Avakov throwing water at Saakashvili. There was a piece on Lenta.ru today that was about Yatsenyuk and Avakov telling Saakashvili to get out of Ukraine.

With that having said, it's logical why the VSU are ramping up their provocative manoeuvres. The reason they are doing this is still the same old: the need to distract the population from the real problems. I'm starting to think Washington simply stopped caring and Biden's visit was a simple "hush hush" to make them believe that there's still an audience for them. Hell, I'd even say that Washington is hoping for a terrible decision from Kiev so that they can finally write them off. Eventhough Biden is the vice president, he has no political weight because Obama is leaving office soon.

The real deal right now is ISIS. It's a universal enemy and it's going to take time to deal with them hence Kerry's visit to Moscow.

In short, there's so much shit that Washington has to deal with now. Both home and abroad. Falling oil prices which are putting shale companies out of business in a VERY fast pace, the Fed struggling to make a decision whether or not to raise the rates and their fading power in the Middle East.

Khepesh wrote:

Akula971 wrote:
I do not deny anything you say. There are dots. There is a trail. Things are going wrong but thats a dead end. There is no solid proof that its Kremlin or is it SVU sabotage forces or just some personal conflict in LNR that we dont know of , or like they said during Bednov - the mafia.

Hysteria in the sense of the blame game. No one ever gives proof or logic stating who is doing this after all. We end up speculating. I will let you know, the loss of these commanders was not easy on me. Yes they were opposed to Igor Plotnitsky's ideas. But is that the only 'logic train' ? This is blatantly obvious and would give Russia / Kremlin bad PR. The whole reason Kremlin agreed to this was was to get GOOD PR. They wont do anything like this. I never understood why they took out Bednov. This is why i believe the plot goes beyond this. Bednov is not just any guy. Guy was former intelligence and his ambush was well thought out. We are nearing his death anniversary (I even remember the dates, thats how much i looked up these commanders).

Please note that I have never pointed finger at Kremlin or Putin and that is because I believe it is entirely an internal matter for LNR. To keep asscociating my posts about about this affair with an attack on Kremlin is wrong and is being disingenous, to put it politely.

Do not overestimate Plotnitsky's intelligence or underestimate his desire to maintain power, and the desire for power blinds people at times and they do not see like those who observe. To put these murders down to Kiev trying at the least to cause embarrasment, and at the most turmoil in LNR, is to greatly overestimate their intelligence and abilities.

On this forum I have simply pointed out the obvious, which annoys some posters to the extent that they want my silence and this affair not spoken of. Well, I suggest anybody who does not like even my diplomatic posts about this should enter Russian networks, including local Donbass forums, and see what is written there, and it is not diplomatic at all and they will not like what they read. Therefore, it has struck me as very odd that Russian media have covered Dremov's death, Russian networks are full of a lot of heat about Lugansk, yet here on an Anglophone forum for fans of Russian military equipment there is almost silence, and horror at any mention of it. Do I really need to go into an analysis of why I think this is so?, no, for it will cause unneccesary friction.

If Kozitsyn had remained in Donbass he would likely have been killed by now. So now Dremov has been killed there are no more obvious high profile targets, and likely this nonsense has ended with his death. For me now the dog barked and the caravan moved on with this affair, but I think it will be back in the future when we learn of the retribution. Certainly killing Mozgovoi will be a death sentence to whoever ordered it and all who carried out those orders, and they will swing just as those responsible for Odessa and all the other deaths.

Dont forget Bednov, He was a good man, i thought of him very highly. He even let the people from a Russian neo-nazi group fight alongside his RRG. The way they treated his RRG after his death and the fate of those neo-nazi groups was a tragedy and offense. They will all be avenged, I am sure. I have been on Russian Donbass forums and am pretty active on Russian social media. I want to thank you for taking the time to comment because I side by each and every thing you have said till now.

LNR internal politics is a big mess. Always has been. Did Gennaidy make more posts ??? He said he was going to post on how the war was lost. I asked this before as well.

Akula971 wrote:

Dont forget Bednov, He was a good man, i thought of him very highly. He even let the people from a Russian neo-nazi group fight alongside his RRG. The way they treated his RRG after his death and the fate of those neo-nazi groups was a tragedy and offense. They will all be avenged, I am sure. I have been on Russian Donbass forums and am pretty active on Russian social media. I want to thank you for taking the time to comment because I side by each and every thing you have said till now.

LNR internal politics is a big mess. Always has been. Did Gennaidy make more posts ??? He said he was going to post on how the war was lost. I asked this before as well.

Dubovoy went silent about this after saying he was going to publish, but never said where or when. I presumed either Cassad or Antifashist, but nothing yet. His posts since he "blew a fuze" have not mentioned it and have been non contentious, so perhaps he is lent on and we will have to wait until after the war for his story, if he survives.....

And yes, you are right about Bednov as he is rather overlooked, but then also Ishchenko who is probably very obscure to many, yet holds the key to unravel Lugansk, perhaps. And thank you for your comment.

The people gathered in Stakhanov outside the House of Culture where the funeral of Pavel Dremov was held. Unverified information says that just like before the assasination of Mozgovoi, Dremov had received "strange calls", before getting into his donated car that had been rigged with explosives.

Looked at this news just to see what's being posted from the Ultra-nationalist capital of Ukraine

Here's where this little rat is...

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/11/29/activists_seize_kryvy_rih_city_council_demand_new_elections_647516

Sunday, 29 November, 2015, 16:22
Activists seize Kryvy Rih city council, demand new elections

The 3-week-long rally also decided to form the Civil Guard to maintain public order in the city.

The seizure was peaceful, and no windows have been broken, Semenchenko said.

The Civil Guard includes local residents and police.

Rada formed an ad hoc commission to investigate claims of rigged elections.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

JohninMK wrote:The irony in this is that as 'stateless' persons the Separatists would probably have a better chance of getting into and staying in the EU with benefits, if they wanted to, than Ukrainians.

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko has welcomed an initiative of the authors of the petition regarding a possibility to deprive a citizenship of Ukraine for separatism.

"I can express its position as a president: I think that under conditions of war the country must have this instrument. I'll ask MPs for them to discuss this opportunity and to back the authors of the petition and president of Ukraine," he told the journalists in Kyiv when visiting Ukraina Polygraph Combine state-run enterprise. The president reminded that a respective petition, which was supported by many Ukrainians, has been already sent to Verkhovna Rada.

Poroshenko explained that under the Constitution of Ukraine it is impossible to deprive a person of Ukrainian citizenship if he was born in Ukraine and is its citizen. "But another thing is when the citizenship of Ukraine is acquired, there are certain rights, and it requires amendments into Constitution and legislation of Ukraine," he said.

Poroshenko saying this, to me, doesn't even make sense and is laughable. If they are no longer a citizen of Ukraine, then what are they a citizen of? Nothingville? Stateless? What else can Poroshenko and company do to Donbass citizens? They've killed them by strafing (or bombing), from an airplane, shot, murdered innocent civilians driving down a highway, shot innocent civilians in public, burned and bludgeoned and murdered ppl in Odessa, cut off pensions, trade and travel back and forth, no mail, no banking, murdered them with artillery, shelled hospitals, and schools, killed children and pregnant women, refused to allow humanitarian aid. Not allowed them to vote, disregarded their votes.  If they are no longer a citizen of Ukraine, then what in the hell can Poroshenko and company do to someone who is no longer a Ukrainian citizen?? (that is legal according to world law, as if that matters at all).

If I was a Ukrainian I'd leave Ukraine and go to Donbass and /or Russia. If the citizens of Ukraine can't take their government back from Poroshenko and company ...God Almighty...

They want to deprive separatist ,that is friendly people to Russia from Ukraine citizenship so later ,kiev can do "Reforms in the constitution" and allow "any political party" opposition to participate.. knowing well that there will be no real opposition. and only factions hostile to Russia can participate in Ukraine general elections.  Is as simple as that , Kiev which is controlled by Washinton DC , will not allow any one in power who seek good relations with Russia and thats the reasons of removing citizenship of them.   This will also force the creation
of an Ukraine state that only Pro USA citizens can participate in politics and that anyone friendly to ethnic Russians will be forced to migrate to Russia. So effectively that also reduce the number of pensions that kiev will have to pay.. You can say we are witnessing in Ukraine a major De-Rusophication of it.. removing its past and its history . But the probabilities it will work
while Ukraine is bankrupt are next to zero.. All those people that kiev make miserable their lives will move to Russia ,the adults of combat age and return to eastern Ukraine with weapons to fight kiev.. All Russia needs to disband Ukraine is start supplying weapons to Kharkiv and create a new front there. All said kiev actions will only disband Ukraine in more parts. and Poroshenko and its government the only thing they care now is their personal finance and personal safety and no longer Ukraine matters for them. I will be surprised if by the end of 2016
we don't see a major civil war in Ukraine covering many cities. And the Creation of Novorosiya
from Odessa to Kharkiv ,landlocking kiev is something that seems inevitable in the nor far future.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Once I was trying to explain some aspects of the current world war by drawing parallels with WW2 wherever it was appropriate, and he comes and says "What does WW2 has to do with the current situation."

Needless to say, that very important discussion got wrecked.

Morpheus,

It's a shame that such an important discussion was derailed by some troll but can you please share that link with me if you have some time? Thanks.

Vann7 wrote:
They want to deprive separatist ,that is friendly people to Russia from Ukraine citizenship so later ,kiev can do "Reforms in the constitution" and allow "any political party" opposition to participate.. knowing well that there will be no real opposition. and only factions hostile to Russia can participate in Ukraine general elections.  Is as simple as that , Kiev which is controlled by Washinton DC , will not allow any one in power who seek good relations with Russia and thats the reasons of removing citizenship of them.   This will also force the creation
of an Ukraine state that only Pro USA citizens can participate in politics and that anyone friendly to ethnic Russians will be forced to migrate to Russia. So effectively that also reduce the number of pensions that kiev will have to pay.. You can say we are witnessing in Ukraine a major De-Rusophication of it.. removing its past and its history . But the probabilities it will work
while Ukraine is bankrupt are next to zero.. All those people that kiev make miserable their lives will move to Russia ,the adults of combat age and return to eastern Ukraine with weapons to fight kiev..  All Russia needs to disband Ukraine is start supplying weapons to Kharkiv and create a new front there. All said kiev actions will only disband Ukraine in more parts. and Poroshenko and its government the only thing they care now is their personal finance and personal safety and no longer Ukraine matters for them. I will be surprised if by the end of 2016
we don't see a major civil war in Ukraine covering many cities.  And the Creation of Novorosiya
from Odessa to Kharkiv ,landlocking kiev is something that seems inevitable in the nor far future.

Your post makes perfect sense to me. Thank you, Vann7.

Picture recently appeared. Photo apparently taken in Ukraine. Y'all can probably guess the time period in which it was taken. Look closely at some of the personnel (they aren't ethnic Russians or Ukrainians).

Ivan the Colorado wrote:
Picture recently appeared. Photo apparently taken in Ukraine. Y'all can probably guess the time period in which it was taken. Look closely at some of the personnel (they aren't ethnic Russians or Ukrainians).

Combat Buryats, look closely at AK74M complete with electric tape and brand spanking new PPE.

Also T72BA is nice, this was the group Graham Philips filmed...

Moody claimed that Moskva may restructure Kyiv's debt

https://www.rt.com/business/325968-moodys-ukraine-debt-russia/

Ukraine’s $3 billion debt due to Russia this Sunday will probably be restructured, according to Moody’s international rating agency. Moscow has refused to restructure the loan without guarantees from the US and the EU.

"Though we expect that [Ukraine’s – Ed.] debt to Russia will be eventually restructured, probably on the same terms as for other bondholders, any negotiations on the issue are likely to be long and controversial," said analysts from the agency.

Estonia preparing for a Russian invasion..




Do they really believe people are so stupid?

and you cannot see a VICE report of Ukraine or not even Syria without
the usual "Russian Aggression" "Russia invasion" and Negatively speaking about Putin,
repeated several times ,as if repetition of lies a thousand of times will make things true in the end.