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    Russian Su-24 shootdown by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter

    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:19 pm

    What a horror this thread has turned into. Just because a complete unknown turned up a day or so ago and keeps poking the fire.

    Can't you lot stay on thread topic let alone stay civil?

    Don't you want this site to retain its reputation?

    This is like the mp.net Ukraine thread at its worst and that brought down draconian Mod action. I hope that will happen tonight when Gary gets on.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:20 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    SturmGuard wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:So you agree that we can only cut the limbs?

    I just don't believe we can actually cut limbs, without knocking out (or administering anesthesia) the head first.

    Russian appearance has obviously irreversibly damaged all of anti-Assad countries ambitions and designs in Syria. But neutralising Turkey or their foreign policy would involve a lot more than wiping out some Turkish SF, advisors and proxies. Or fighters entering foreign airspace.

    I agree, but so far it's basically revenge time. There's nothing long term here. Just wanton revenge.

    With cutting limbs I disagree, even best head alone wiht broken or cut limbs is unlikely to walk far before decapitation...

    Anyway the Turkish intervention is going down, law of unintended consequences. This might even get the US back on track to deal which moderate beheaders it wants dead and which it wants to hire. In a sense the US is going to love this, Russia is going to reign in their own mad dog for free. Law on unintended consequences again. Best FoBroes Russia and US waging their own little proxy war, at the expense of some dumb Arabs (and Turks) is going to be fun. Iran as strategical extra, benefits too. Everyone else just gets freedom refugees and terror attacks.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:28 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What a horror this thread has turned into. Just because a complete unknown turned up a day or so ago and keeps poking the fire.

    Can't you lot stay on thread topic let alone stay civil?

    Don't you want this site to retain its reputation?

    This is like the mp.net Ukraine thread at its worst and that brought down draconian Mod action. I hope that will happen tonight when Gary gets on.

    A few people have shown their true colours the past two days, and it seems the be the same colour of things that i detest most about the 'other side'.

    This thread has been an eye opener thats for certain.





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    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:30 pm

    Mustafa wrote:
    Kadmos45 wrote:
    Mustafa wrote:
    I was worried for business and wondered how russians react. I saw real russians are cool headed. The other idiots here just serve my entertainment. I´m hat home with the flu the week and guys like you help me to beat up some time.

    lol!  You have actually no idea what russians in Russia thinks about your actions. I think you are just posting in wrong place .
    If you want to know what "real russians" think go to some russian language forum.

    And your business is doomed anyway so cheer up ! Things will be just heating up and this is the best treatment for flu.

    Unfortunately i speak no russian. I can greet in russian and know just a few words

    You could always open an account on vk.com, plenty of groups and people on their to converse with for a start.


    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:33 pm

    https://twitter.com/HDNER/status/669963162641440768

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/two-journalists-arrested-for-story-on-intelligence-trucks-bound-for-syria.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91722&NewsCatID=339

    Two journalists arrested for story on intelligence trucks bound for Syria

    “What difference would it make whether the trucks contained weapons or not?” he asked, defining the publishing of the story as a “betrayal.”

    Erdoğan claimed the trucks were set to deliver humanitarian aid to Bayırbucak Turkmens and that the journalists were complicit in “sabotaging” this aid merely to harm the image of himself and the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government.


    Hon Hon HOOON. This 8 months before NATO accusations against Russia for Humanitarian Convoys used as front. Off course they'd think that, they're using that method themselves.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:45 pm

    interewsting analytical opinion about Su-24 topic by Rostislav Ishchenko.

    The origin and meaning of Turkish provocations
    http://ria.ru/analytics/20151126/1328986919.html

    "
    It's only the beginning
    Destabilization of Turkey is not in the interests of Russia. But its transformation into a branch of the IG even worse. So it is possible that someone will have to help in the restoration of historical justice. For example, today many in Russia the establishment of the Greek-Armenian border in Asia Minor would be perceived as a benefit, though not the fact that the restored at the borders of the Byzantine Empire of Basil II times of Greece or returned to the borders of Tigran II Armenia would be for Russia a reliable partner. And so the kinds of States on Kurdish statehood and does make you think who actually may be the main beneficiary of the Russian-Turkish confrontation.
    In General, I can repeat that task is to drag Russia into the war should the provocations continue. From whom to wait for the next (from Turkey, Ukraine, the Baltic States) is unknown. However, with regard to specific Russian-Turkish crisis caused by the attack on the Russian plane, everything is just beginning. Still leave Turkey in tourists, cut economic ties, the foreign Ministry will still require an apology. The question may still consider the UN security Council. And will travel to Moscow for money and weapons from all the walkers who would like to finally solve the Turkish question.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/analytics/20151126/1328986919.html#ixzz3sdWXXElB
    "
    OminousSpudd
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    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:49 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What a horror this thread has turned into. Just because a complete unknown turned up a day or so ago and keeps poking the fire.

    Can't you lot stay on thread topic let alone stay civil?

    Don't you want this site to retain its reputation?

    This is like the mp.net Ukraine thread at its worst and that brought down draconian Mod action. I hope that will happen tonight when Gary gets on.

    Yeah, this was way OTT from the beginning. I think the thread should be locked, as it's just going around in circles with ad hom flying thick and fast.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:51 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:What a horror this thread has turned into. Just because a complete unknown turned up a day or so ago and keeps poking the fire.

    Can't you lot stay on thread topic let alone stay civil?

    Don't you want this site to retain its reputation?

    This is like the mp.net Ukraine thread at its worst and that brought down draconian Mod action. I hope that will happen tonight when Gary gets on.

    Yeah, this was way OTT from the beginning. I think the thread should be locked, as it's just going around in circles with ad hom flying thick and fast.

    I think it probably will do when the relevant parties appear.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:53 pm

    "In the Krasnodar region, a group of 39 Turkish businessmen attending an agriculture exhibition were detained for entering Russia on tourist rather than business visas — a common practice — and were slated for deportation, according to a report on the website of the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper."

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/27/world/europe/russia-turkey-plane-downing.html?_r=0
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:56 pm

    Militarov wrote:"In the Krasnodar region, a group of 39 Turkish businessmen attending an agriculture exhibition were detained for entering Russia on tourist rather than business visas — a common practice — and were slated for deportation, according to a report on the website of the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper."

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/27/world/europe/russia-turkey-plane-downing.html?_r=0

    Sad but true.
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    Post  Firebird on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:58 pm

    Mustafa wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Guys, guys,

    I am surprised that you have filled so many pages discussing this kind of stuff with the user Mustafa.

    Considering that Turkey is a very primitive form of an Orwellian society, this user can only be an agent of those same foreign entities that are immediately in charge of that society; otherwise, he would have already been arrested for even posting the material he has posted here. What would be then the point of having conversations with him. This is his day job; he is a Tom Parsons.

    If you believe our nation pays me to argue with deluded internet warriors, then you must be deluded beyond repair.

    I was worried for business and wondered how russians react. I saw real russians are cool headed. The other idiots here just serve my entertainment. I´m hat home with the flu the week and guys like you help me to beat up some time.

    Think its a bit late for that, Mr Terroristsupporter...

    Comedy wanker, maybe u can try cleaning toilets in Europe instead..?HAHA
    Personally, I'd like to find a toilet big enough to flush you down.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:13 pm



    Tribute to pilot
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    Post  Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:27 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Militarov wrote:"In the Krasnodar region, a group of 39 Turkish businessmen attending an agriculture exhibition were detained for entering Russia on tourist rather than business visas — a common practice — and were slated for deportation, according to a report on the website of the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper."

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/27/world/europe/russia-turkey-plane-downing.html?_r=0

    Sad but true.

    Law is law, fact that its common practice does not apply for Turks anymore. They might also shoot them, after all they were illegally in Russia far more than 17 seconds.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:29 pm

    "Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

    Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
    Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=

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    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:37 pm

    Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

    Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
    Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=



    Haha, the pr for erdogan gets better and better
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    Post  Rmf on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:37 pm

    Mustafa wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Mustafa wrote:What do you mean by this? Of course we are byzantium. One of my great grandmothers was christian from Izmir. So she most likely was greek. But she converted to islam when she married. One of my great grandfathers came from cyprus. Why do you pull it on the genetic rail? Of course your and our people are basicly the same. We were one empire before the ottoman empire and we are only divided by religion.

    You know what? I love to visit Ephesos when i visit my grandparents who live there. I see those ruins as part of our history. I´m proud for them. Byzantium didn´t die off. It was added to a new culture and formed our empire.

    You can like it or not, but 150 years ago we would propably best friends and act like brothers. You know...at the end of the empire chaos broke out and many bad things happened to all sides. Those mass deportations were idiotic and cruel. It created hate that lives on today. On our side and on yours.

    The religion difference is what brought the division

    I didn't say that it was negative for modern Turkey to be Byzantium's replacement in Asian side (us, Serbia, Bulgaria and so on kept the Euro side). But Byzantium was an Orthodox Christian Empire of 1,000 years, which gave the keys to Russia when we lost our capital of Constantinople. Many princes, painters, clerics went to either Rome or Moscow.

    I have no bad feelings about being a nation and people behind an Empire (many actually), but now it's on to Russia to continue these games. We are taking this millennium off. cheers

    And before that we were lydians. And before that hittites. We are anatolians. We have a very old and proud history. And that our empire felt at beginning of 20th century is a desaster. So many problems today exist because of that.

    The wars and conflicts on the balkans and the chaos in the middle east. Countless artificial nations were created there. Be it syria, iraq but also Jordan and israel. This has so much conflict now and never wil work. Just look at their boarder lines. I believe it would have been better if we kept the empire alive. made it a representative monarchy and modernized it.
    fall of you backward tyranical empire was best thing in the world, too bad greece didnt win in 1920 war ,and communist seized russia into civil war at that time.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:38 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:

    A few people have shown their true colours the past two days, and it seems the be the same colour of things that i detest most about the 'other side'.

    This thread has been an eye opener thats for certain.  


    Did I miss something?

    I don't excuse what some people might have said in the past 48 hours but you have to realize the gravity of what happened. Somewhere I do feel the anger of many people.
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    Post  Rmf on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:41 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:interewsting analytical opinion about Su-24 topic by Rostislav Ishchenko.

    The origin and meaning of Turkish provocations
    http://ria.ru/analytics/20151126/1328986919.html

    "
    It's only the beginning
    Destabilization of Turkey is not in the interests of Russia. But its transformation into a branch of the IG even worse. So it is possible that someone will have to help in the restoration of historical justice. For example, today many in Russia the establishment of the Greek-Armenian border in Asia Minor would be perceived as a benefit, though not the fact that the restored at the borders of the Byzantine Empire of Basil II times of Greece or returned to the borders of Tigran II Armenia would be for Russia a reliable partner. And so the kinds of States on Kurdish statehood and does make you think who actually may be the main beneficiary of the Russian-Turkish confrontation.
    In General, I can repeat that task is to drag Russia into the war should the provocations continue. From whom to wait for the next (from Turkey, Ukraine, the Baltic States) is unknown. However, with regard to specific Russian-Turkish crisis caused by the attack on the Russian plane, everything is just beginning. Still leave Turkey in tourists, cut economic ties, the foreign Ministry will still require an apology. The question may still consider the UN security Council. And will travel to Moscow for money and weapons from all the walkers who would like to finally solve the Turkish question.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/analytics/20151126/1328986919.html#ixzz3sdWXXElB
    "
    this is pathetic, Russia just needs 1 secretly deployed iskander in Syria (which will cut trough turkeys medium AD like hot knife trough butter) , aaaand 1 tactical nuke from its vaaast reserves about 0,5-1mT.
    the rest ill leave to your imagination.
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:49 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:

    A few people have shown their true colours the past two days, and it seems the be the same colour of things that i detest most about the 'other side'.

    This thread has been an eye opener thats for certain.  


    Did I miss something?

    I don't excuse what some people might have said in the past 48 hours but you have to realize the gravity of what happened. Somewhere I do feel the anger of many people.


    The anger is understandable, and i feel that too, its how you express that anger though.

    Is it really the right thing to start spewing blatant racism and wishing death upon turkish people, many posters specifically said civilians too because of the actions of their government?

    As ive previously said, russia has the right to slap turkey and slap it hard, but it needs to target the ones who deserve a good slapping. If you want to go in and start carpet bombing turkish cities fine do it if it will release your anger, but it wont win any morality contests or make the situation any better.

    Oh and just for the record, im a bit of a turkophobe, im not the biggest fan of the country or many of its population at all, but thats just my personal bias, im still not allowing that bias to cloud my view.




    Last edited by Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Rmf
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    Post  Rmf on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:52 pm

    what codes? just target that southern turk-nato airbase that f-16 plane took of, with tactical nukes.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:59 pm

    Rmf wrote:what codes? just target that southern turk-nato airbase that f-16 plane took of, with tactical nukes.
    Its late at night, here come the crazy ideas.

    Working on the assumption that you are talking about Incirlik, so, just in case you were unaware, there are at least 20 USAF planes stationed there. An attack on them would, without doubt, be the start of WW3.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:03 am

    Rmf wrote:what codes? just target that southern turk-nato airbase that f-16 plane took of, with tactical nukes.

    Friendly advise, stay off the cool-aid. Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Rodinazombie on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:07 am

    Rmf wrote:what codes? just target that southern turk-nato airbase that f-16 plane took of, with tactical nukes.

    Why not take some rocket engines into space, attach them onto a meteorite and then fly them towards earth and crash them right onto istanbul? You could maybe put lasers on the meteorite and fry the turkish military on the way down so they cant destroy the meteor in time.

    That plan is about as sensible as yours.
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:08 am

    Militarov wrote:"Chechen Mujahideen are waiting for orders from Erdogan, the leader of the Muslim people."

    Source: http://www.yenisafak.com/dunya/cecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308
    Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yenisafak.com%2Fdunya%2Fcecen-mucahitler-erdoganin-emrini-bekliyoruz-2348308&edit-text=


    They do not need to wait, Russian government is already under tributary control of Chechnya.


    Recently in August or September, 2015, the local government in the city of Zamosc, Poland, requested the Russian government for some funds to renovate a monument dedicated to the genocided Soviet POWs from the Second World War; Russian government replied that "there is no money for such things until 2017."

    What is very interesting is that recently the largest water fountain in either Europe or the world was constructed in Grozny, Chechnya.

    It appears there was money for that.

    Can you believe it?

    They were making fun of Russia about it on Stormfront; they even showed a dilapidated hospital in Russia, and asked where is the money for that?
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    Post  OminousSpudd on Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:10 am

    Geez.

    It's the afternoon here, and some of you are already frying my brain. Nukes are completely out of the question. Period.

    Rodinazombie wrote:A few people have shown their true colours the past two days, and it seems the be the same colour of things that i detest most about the 'other side'.

    This thread has been an eye opener thats for certain.

    Hmmm, just some very angry people. Calling for civilian deaths is completely unacceptable though. Playing the Devil's advocate you guys calling for this genocidal BS have to remember the Turks did shoot down a military aircraft, therefore a military response should likewise be targeted at the Turkish military, not civil infrastructure or civilians themselves. That's just basic common sense.

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