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    US Nuclear Submarine Force

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue May 12, 2020 5:29 pm

    American shipyards also have problems and delay repair of US submarines

    Problems Repairing American Nuclear Submarines

    According to the U.S. Navy, the Los Angeles type nuclear submarine SSN 764 Boise of Los Angeles type (in service since 1992) again arrived from its Norfolk base at Newport News Shipbuilding (part of Huntington Ingalls Industries Corporation) in Newport -News (Virginia) for medium repairs (Engineered Overhaul - EOH). The boat has been waiting for repairs to begin for more than five years.

    The nuclear submarine Boise returned from its last military service at the beginning of 2015, and after that it was planned for production in medium repairs. In February 2017, a ban on diving was introduced for the boat and after that she defended in Norfolk.

    In 2017, the U.S. Navy signed a contract with Newport News Shipbuilding in the amount of $ 385.7 million for an average repair of the Boise EON boat. On June 18, 2018, Boise arrived for repair at Newport News, but the shipyard was not able to start repairing it due to delaying the repair of other boats of the same type (SSN 725 Helena and SSN 762 Columbus), and as a result, Boise was in March 2019 forced to retire to Norfolk.

    Now Boise is trying to re-stand on repair at Newport News.

    Newport News systematically breaks the deadlines for repairs of all three of the above-mentioned nuclear submarines of the US Navy, which causes numerous complaints from the US Navy. The reason is, in particular, the lack of experience in such repairs and the lack of qualified personnel at the shipyard, despite the fact that more than 1,200 people were involved in the repair of the Helena and Columbus nuclear submarines in 2019.

    Four state shipyards that repair nuclear submarines of the US Navy are also facing similar problems. According to the report of the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), issued in 2018, since 2008, repairs of almost all U.S. Navy submarines have been carried out either with a delay in the start of the planned dates for their implementation, or with delaying the repair dates themselves.

    In an attempt to solve this problem, the U.S. Navy resorted to setting up boats for repair at private shipyards, including Newport News Shipbuilding, but there, problems with repairs were also reproduced on a similar scale. Newport News, which has received contracts for the repair of these three boats, has delayed the delivery of Helena (despite the fact that it carried out repairs in the amount of current, not average) and Columbus and for three years can not start repairs at Boise. The Helena nuclear submarine arrived at Newport News in October 2017 and was due to be commissioned in 2018, but only left the shipyard in the spring of 2020, making room for Boise.

    Repair of the SSN 765 Montpelier nuclear submarine at the General Dynamics Electric Boats shipyard in Groton is being delayed in a similar way.

    The standard repair time for EON should be 25 months, however, as you can understand, in recent years this period has not been systematically maintained.

    In total, from 1976 to 1996, the U.S. Navy commissioned 62 Los Angeles-type multipurpose submarines, of which 40 are now in the fleet.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4022151.html
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:24 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Militarov wrote:I am even skeptical about production of marine grade steel of such quantity and quality in Russia at this moment, judging by problems recent submarine projects had due to steelworks underperfoming and overpicing their products.

    Militarov wrote:No, i am talking about steel. I linked a year ago or so article about issues regarding marine grade steel production in Russia. As steelworks refuse to produce fairly small amounts Russian shipyards require for the price state is offering to pay as they claim such production is not profitable for them in any way

    Militarov wrote:Also some batches of that steel werent of adequate quality, that being one of reasons why Russia obtained fairly significant amounts of marine grade steel from South Korea though years.

    I image you would mean high-tensile corrosive resistant steel.


    Well i would read this article that you have mentioned, because i have the feeling that you have confused the problem of the flooding in the market of very cheap low-grade steel by part of Korean and Turkish firms ( a problem that has hit much harder European and ,even more, US corporations of the sector) with production of military shipbuilding high-tensile alloy steel.


    You well know ,i image, that the performance level (for tensile strength, plasticity, weldability, and salt and cold resistance ) of domestic Federation synthesis of HTS was always historically and is still today totally unmatched at world level; with the technological gap with foreign firms even fast widening, with the design and production of new nitrogenic steel by part of ЦНИИ КМ "Прометей", therefore Federation Navy couldn't import military grade steel from foreign firms simply because they cannot offer nothing today even at the level of half of '80 years domestically, simple like that Laughing  


    Just for a clear comparison with some often cited over ocean corresponding products : a Virginia submarine is made today with HY-80 HTS steel (with an yield stregth of 550 MPa) that is inferior to the 1954 "Прометей" designed AK-25 (580 MPa and incomparably better weldability and plasticity) !


    Even the other mostly used over ocean high stength steel alloy HY-100 (yield strength of 690 MPa ) is not competitive with 1972 synthetised AK-33 - used ,at example, for pr.949, 949A  (yield strength of 785 MPa) or AK-32, used for pr. 971, (yield strength of 985 MPa).


    Even theirs most advanced effectively synthetised high tensile strength steel alloy product , having practically not achieved any real military production employment, the HY-130 (yield strength of 896 MPa) is terribly obsolete and underperforming not only against the cited AK-32 but against the more modern AK-34 ( yield strength of 1177 MPa ) or latest AK-35 and AK-36 (classified, but from projection superior to 1300 MPa).


    As you can realize to create surface ships or submarines of marine grade steel incomparably superior to those of the most up-to-date surface and under-surface units now in water or in construction by part of over ocean companies, domestic manufacturers could employ old reserve stocks, in air-proof sealed sites, of Ak-32 and AB-2 steel.


    The problem is only that this kind of product, for its physical characteristics crushingly superior to those employed today by foreign shipbuilding industry, is evaluated terribly obsolete by domestic standard.

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t6686p525-russian-navy-status-news-3#198792


    Miltarov's posts haven't aged well....Mindstorm clubbed a baby seal, took old yellar behind the shed, took a dirty empty suit to the cleaners, etc. I bet he's somewhere deep-throating a stick of dynamite and having a blast, trying to remove ka-bomb/kaboom. Made him look like a complete jackass in retrospect! lol1  Embarassed  Razz

    U.S. submarines were made of substandard steel

    US Nuclear Submarine Force - Page 3 2_d_850

    The leading supplier of the US Navy was implicated in the scandal with the sale of low-quality metal for the construction of nuclear submarines. The falsification of ship steel research results lasted for decades.

    Bradken Inc. - The main supplier of high-grade metal at the Electric Boat and Newport News Shipbuilding, which builds nuclear submarines for the U.S. Navy, paid $ 10.9 million under a deferred prosecution agreement, writes AP citing the United States Department of Justice. In 2008, the company bought a metallurgical plant in Tacoma. Nine years later, when changing the management of the enterprise, it was found that the former director of the plant, 66-year-old Elaine Thomas, since the 1990s had faked the results of an analysis of 240 steel batches for submarine hulls - this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken for the needs of the US Navy.

    Thomas pleaded guilty and said that she considered "stupid requirements" to conduct metal tests at such low temperatures. Her trial will begin on June 30.

    - Bradken Inc. threatened the operations of the US Navy and the lives of sailors, ”said Seattle Attorney Brian Moran. Although the investigation documents do not mention accidents caused by the low quality of the metal, Moran believes that the Navy incurred additional costs for the combat readiness of maintaining the submarines. What kind of submarines in question are not reported.

    After the fraud opened, the company actively collaborated with law enforcement agencies and pledged to tighten control over the factory laboratory. If Bradken complies with the Ministry of Justice, the company’s charge of fraud will be dropped.

    https://rg.ru/2020/06/16/podlodki-ssha-okazalis-iz-nekachestvennoj-stali.html

    So US subs have been supplied with faulty sub-standard steel for 3 decades? Absolutely hilarious! lol1
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:38 pm

    What will happen when the submariners lear of this?
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:08 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:What will happen when the submariners lear of this?

    Crush depth,.....Crunch!

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:30 am

    Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.



    Singular_Transform
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:52 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.





    For me it sounds like  all USA submarines contain same of this steel.
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    Post  Hole on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:12 pm

    Largest navy supplier.
    Half of the steel.
    Since the 1990´s.

    Yeah, sounds not very big. lol!
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:33 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.





    For me it sounds like  all USA submarines contain same of this steel.

    No US subs before they go in the water are tested etc, this is exactly why we do this.

    Some of the steel simply found it's way onto a submarine hull and during tests, it was caught. So the protocols did their job.

    The steel will simply be removed and replaced.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:36 pm

    Hole wrote:Largest navy supplier.
    Half of the steel.
    Since the 1990´s.

    Yeah, sounds not very big. lol!

    You do realize the US Navy uses steel for many other things then ships and subs right?.

    But for the sake of being fair, prove to me US Submarines were made with the steel because the article simply says "needs".

    Which means sooooo many things.

    So come on, back up that comment of yours show me the proof, giving you the chance to prove me wrong right now.

    I also suggest you learn how to read English because it seems. I must give you a lesson.

    "since the 1990s had faked the results of an analysis of 240 steel batches for submarine hulls - this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken for the needs of the US Navy"

    The sentence reads here "this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken".

    Etc the sentence means that half the metal supplied by this ONE company, the US Navy has many metal suppliers, not just one. So this means 120 batches where faulty. Not all of the steel.

    The Navy also doesn't use all the metal it orders, it tends to order a bit extra because sometime steel even if you do everything right just has a bad reaction. The entire reason they got caught is because the Navy tested the steel and was finding steel from this one plant in large bulks was a problem.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  mnztr on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:38 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.




    Says its been going on since 1990 and 240 batches of steel for subs were falsified. That would mean almost the entire USN submarine fleet is affected!!!!  It does not mean the steel was ACTUALLY bad, it means that they don't know, which may be worse.....
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:47 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.




    Says its been going on since 1990 and 240 batches of steel for subs were falsified. That would mean almost the entire USN submarine fleet is affected!!!!  It does not mean the steel was ACTUALLY bad, it means that they don't know, which may be worse.....

    Simply untrue, the US Navy has more than one steel supplier, they don't get all its steel from one supplier.

    Also steel is tested before its put onto subs, that is why this problem was caught. Steel from this one plant kept tipping them off, some bad batches are to be expected steel even if you do everything right can just have a randomly bad reaction.

    But once they kept noticing more than acceptable bad batches errors, they started to look into it.

    The Navy doesn't us all the steel it's given. It tends to order more then it needs encase you get a bad batch or two.

    Your making the situation out to be way worse then it really is, again no commissioned subs where built with the steel, the required testing did its job.

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    Post  dino00 on Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:06 pm

    "Kept tipping them of"...after 30 years Very Happy
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:15 pm


    What does any of this have to do with Russian Navy?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:07 pm

    It was a rebuke of claims made from the ghost of Miltarov. He was making claims (pulled straight from his ass) that Russian subs/surface fleet were made and supplied with sub-standard steel, heavily implying the US navy had better quality steel in their subs. Mindstorm thoroughly rebuked him, and I'm petty with a long memory, so when I found a major scandal with sub-standard steel being supplied to US subs (for 3 decades) I felt the need to rub his nose in his own fecal matter. Don't mind me, while I continue to keep poking with a stick in his festering rotting corpse! Twisted Evil
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:28 pm

    dino00 wrote:"Kept tipping them of"...after 30 years Very Happy

    And there where no accidents have a result, no problems and US subs continue to operate at a much greater volume then Russian subs.

    Don't get me wrong it's stupid it went on for that long.

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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:53 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:It was a rebuke of claims made from the ghost of Miltarov. He was making claims (pulled straight from his ass) that Russian subs/surface fleet were made and supplied with sub-standard steel, heavily implying the US navy had better quality steel in their subs. Mindstorm thoroughly rebuked him, and I'm petty with a long memory, so when I found a major scandal with sub-standard steel being supplied to US subs (for 3 decades) I felt the need to rub his nose in his own fecal matter. Don't mind me, while I continue to keep poking with a stick in his festering rotting corpse! Twisted Evil

    USA's fuckups do not absolve Russia of hers and vice versa

    When a kid fails a test and says ''other kid failed too'' it doesn't change the fact that he himself still failed

    This nonsense should go to separate tread, this one is supposed to about Russian Navy

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    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.




    Says its been going on since 1990 and 240 batches of steel for subs were falsified. That would mean almost the entire USN submarine fleet is affected!!!!  It does not mean the steel was ACTUALLY bad, it means that they don't know, which may be worse.....

    Simply untrue, the US Navy has more than one steel supplier, they don't get all its steel from one supplier.

    Also steel is tested before its put onto subs, that is why this problem was caught. Steel from this one plant kept tipping them off, some bad batches are to be expected steel even if you do everything right can just have a randomly bad reaction.

    But once they kept noticing more than acceptable bad batches errors, they started to look into it.

    The Navy doesn't us all the steel it's given. It tends to order more then it needs encase you get a bad batch or two.

    Your making the situation out to be way worse then it really is, again no commissioned subs where built with the steel, the required testing did its job.


    Suggestion : try to look for errors in your own reasoing.

    By this way you can avoid to argue based on feelings ,and move the discussion to fact and logic.

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-navy%E2%80%99s-leading-supplier-high-strength-submarine-steel-provided-subpar-metal-162916
    The company falsified the records of steel bought for submarines.0
    wrote:The alleged fraud involved more than two hundred production runs of steel, which represent a substantial percentage of the castings that Bradken produced for submarines built by Electric Boat Company and Newport News Shipbuilding.


    It did it for thirty years:
    According to the DoJ’s court filings, for thirty years, the Tacoma foundry, which Bradken acquired in 2008, produced castings that had failed lab tests and did not meet the Navy’s standards. The filings allege that Elaine Thomas, as director of metallurgy, falsified test results to hide the fact that the steel had failed the tests. She allegedly falsified results for over two hundred productions of steel, which represent a substantial percentage of the castings Bradken produced for the Navy. 

    The USA NAVY had no clue about it, the new owner of the foundry found the falsification :
    Bradken had reportedly learned in 2017 that the results had been falsified, which indicated that the steel was strong enough to meet the Navy’s requirements. .

    But even after they notified the NAVY they made the impression it affected only few shipment, and was a human error:
    Federal prosecutors have said that the company did disclose its findings to the Navy but wrongfully suggested that the discrepancies were the result of human error not the result of fraud. That likely hindered the Navy’s efforts to determine the scope of the problem, but also how to remediate the risks the subpar steel presented to sailors serving on the submarines

    The head of metalurgy falsified the records because :
    She said she may have done it because she believed it was “a stupid requirement” that the test be conducted at such a cold temperature, the complaint said.


    Reason why the USA navy never found this issue is because they use the equipment well within the design limitation decreased by safety factor, means they never test it against war like requirements.

    To avoid embarassing discoveries, like during the 60s.

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    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:20 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    dino00 wrote:"Kept tipping them of"...after 30 years Very Happy

    And there where no accidents have a result, no problems and US subs continue to operate at a much greater volume then Russian subs.

    Don't get me wrong it's stupid it went on for that long.


    The USA subs operating in less demanding conditions, than the Russians, spending less time in cold enviroment, never diving deep and generally less capable than the Russian ones.

    Simpler, less capable, and they would not push even the boundaries of these capabilities.

    Just because you spent time with the USA NAVY , and has emotional attachement doesn't means that they are capable : ) .
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:44 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Actually it might become a serious factor if they want to increase their presence in the Arctic... to find they don't hold up well at very low temperatures...

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.




    Says its been going on since 1990 and 240 batches of steel for subs were falsified. That would mean almost the entire USN submarine fleet is affected!!!!  It does not mean the steel was ACTUALLY bad, it means that they don't know, which may be worse.....

    Simply untrue, the US Navy has more than one steel supplier, they don't get all its steel from one supplier.

    Also steel is tested before its put onto subs, that is why this problem was caught. Steel from this one plant kept tipping them off, some bad batches are to be expected steel even if you do everything right can just have a randomly bad reaction.

    But once they kept noticing more than acceptable bad batches errors, they started to look into it.

    The Navy doesn't us all the steel it's given. It tends to order more then it needs encase you get a bad batch or two.

    Your making the situation out to be way worse then it really is, again no commissioned subs where built with the steel, the required testing did its job.


    Submarines use very specialized steel. This company supplied the two yards the US builds subs in, there were 240 batches. How many nuclear subs has the USA built in the last 30 years? What are the chances that no subs have SOME of this tainted steel in them? Yes the steel is tested, and the results were falsified...it does NOT necessarily mean the steel was bad, in fact I expect its pretty damn good steel. But ...no one knows 100% for sure.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:36 am

    mnztr wrote:



    Submarines use very specialized steel. This company supplied the two yards the US builds subs in, there were 240 batches. How many nuclear subs has the USA built in the last 30 years? What are the chances that no subs have SOME of this tainted steel in them? Yes the steel is tested, and the results were falsified...it does NOT necessarily mean the steel was bad, in fact I expect its pretty damn good steel. But ...no one knows 100% for sure.


    Do you remember the Proton blow ups?

    That was due to inferrior quality steel in the turbopumps.


    And the submarine hull is as strong as the weakest piece of metal / welding built in.

    If the metal doesn't meet the requriements then it is not fit for use.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:49 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    dino00 wrote:"Kept tipping them of"...after 30 years Very Happy

    And there where no accidents have a result, no problems and US subs continue to operate at a much greater volume then Russian subs.

    Don't get me wrong it's stupid it went on for that long.


    The USA subs operating in less demanding conditions, than the Russians, spending less time in cold enviroment, never diving deep and generally less capable than the Russian ones.

    Simpler, less capable, and they would not push even the boundaries of these capabilities.

    Just because you spent time with the USA NAVY , and has emotional attachement doesn't means that they are capable : ) .

    Lol So Admiral care to tell me what your position is within the US Navy to make such claims about USN Submarines operations?.

    Your a guy behind a computer don't sit there and pretend you have an ounce of an idea what USN subs are doing.

    Your talking to me about emotional attachment? oooooooooook, There are no facts to support any claims of the nature you are making. Aren't you part of the "Russia has done no wrong" crowd despite their endless list of constant fucks up/

    Facts are, Russian have lost more submarines then us, Russians have lost WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more men in sub related accidents then us and we operate at a much greater volume and much more time than their subs.

    There is also NO evidence to support any commissioned subs were made with the steel, before the metal is attached to the hull they test it and if its bad they don't use it.

    I am also no denying what happened, I am simply denying the metal was used on submarines because it wasn't. Basicly she lied about results and sold pieces of steel to the navy that didn't pass tests and was caught.

    Yes the Navy does, this after all if they didn't. Then they would have accepted the shipment and simply built the subs with them but no, its standard practice to test the metal before you put it on the submarines just encase something happened to it over time.

    That is how the Navy realized what was going on, some bad batches are to be expected but enough batches back to back simply alerted the navy and again it was only half of the batches not even all of it.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:14 am

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    mnztr wrote:



    Submarines use very specialized steel. This company supplied the two yards the US builds subs in, there were 240 batches. How many nuclear subs has the USA built in the last 30 years? What are the chances that no subs have SOME of this tainted steel in them? Yes the steel is tested, and the results were falsified...it does NOT necessarily mean the steel was bad, in fact I expect its pretty damn good steel. But ...no one knows 100% for sure.


    Do you remember the Proton blow ups?

    That was due to inferrior quality steel in the turbopumps.


    And the submarine hull is as strong as the weakest piece of metal / welding built in.

    If the metal doesn't meet the requriements then it is not fit for use.

    No one knows for sure, I don't think they can test this without cutting it off the boat, they will probably be able to do some testing but will limit ops limits in extreme cold weather and cross their fingers.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:31 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I also suggest you learn how to read English because it seems. I must give you a lesson.


    Perhaps you should learn to speak english yourself before making such a comment. Filthy americans, all of the hubris with none of the justification for it.

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Lol So Admiral care to tell me what your position is within the US Navy to make such claims about USN Submarines operations?.

    Your a guy behind a computer don't sit there and pretend you have an ounce of an idea what USN subs are doing.

    Well the same could be said about you... Unless ofcourse you expect us to believe that you are ex us navy and currently active in syria pulling the strings of the rebels and somehow being able to avoid court marshal for risking sensitive information by appearing regularly on a pro Russian forum, though you would probably endup 'disappearing' for that.

    But alas that would be too convenient, you know nothing and therefore are sadly not worth disposing of to our government.



    You have so far not given any reason or evidence that the batches of steel in question were not used, only the repeated claim "my navy would neva do dat your just lying boo hoo".
    When will you nato fanboys grow up and realise that denying reality will not change it?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:01 pm

    For the record no submarines in commission were made with that steel just one or two being built and it was caught. Before you start going around claiming US submarines are made of this steel.

    So you have shares in US shipyards?  Wink

    For me it sounds like  all USA submarines contain same of this steel.

    The article says half the steel used for US Submarines in the last 30 years... so at the very least half the subs are completely made of the stuff or perhaps a little bit in every sub...

    No US subs before they go in the water are tested etc, this is exactly why we do this.

    Some of the steel simply found it's way onto a submarine hull and during tests, it was caught. So the protocols did their job.

    The steel will simply be removed and replaced.

    The article says the steel tests by the maker have been falsified since 1990... if they have been catching all the steel that doesn't pass the tests since then that means the US Navy has been rejecting all of their steel... why haven't they noticed?

    Also why would the US Navy test the steel themselves before using it to build a sub... it comes tested from the factory...


    You do realize the US Navy uses steel for many other things then ships and subs right?.

    But for the sake of being fair, prove to me US Submarines were made with the steel because the article simply says "needs".

    Which means sooooo many things.

    They do, but they also pay a lot extra for high tensile steel used in submarine hulls... why would they be making forks and knives and spoons out of it?

    I also suggest you learn how to read English because it seems. I must give you a lesson.

    "since the 1990s had faked the results of an analysis of 240 steel batches for submarine hulls - this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken for the needs of the US Navy"

    The sentence reads here "this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken".

    Etc the sentence means that half the metal supplied by this ONE company, the US Navy has many metal suppliers, not just one. So this means 120 batches where faulty. Not all of the steel.

    Nice English lesson there.... how about this one... Bradken supply high tensile steel for Sub hulls to the US Navy... how may companies do you think do that too... and if there are plenty why is it so hard that they didn't do a proper job in the first place and fake results.

    Bradken Inc. - The main supplier of high-grade metal at the Electric Boat and Newport News Shipbuilding, which builds nuclear submarines for the U.S. Navy

    Main supplier of sub hull metal at the company that builds nuclear subs for the US Navy... right there in the article...

    It also means that 240 batches of steel they provided were fraudulent, and presumably the other half which would be another 240 batches were OK... all of it being hull steel for submarines...

    The Navy also doesn't use all the metal it orders, it tends to order a bit extra because sometime steel even if you do everything right just has a bad reaction. The entire reason they got caught is because the Navy tested the steel and was finding steel from this one plant in large bulks was a problem.

    Why are you making shit up... it said in the article that a change of management led to someone finding the fraud and reporting it.... in fact if you read it properly:

    In 2008, the company bought a metallurgical plant in Tacoma. Nine years later, when changing the management of the enterprise, it was found that the former director of the plant, 66-year-old Elaine Thomas, since the 1990s had faked the results of an analysis of 240 steel batches for submarine hulls - this is half of all the metal supplied by Bradken for the needs of the US Navy.

    In other words the plant that tests the steel in Tacoma was bought presumably by Bradken in 2008 and then 9 years later when they changed the management there... 2017... they found the former director had been faking results since the 1990s... so it was probably collusion between someone at Bradken and this testing place that slipped these steel lots through with fake passes... Bradken is avoiding prosecution by cooperating with the investigation so the testing place will get it in the neck, but Bradken will likely get out of any consequences...

    It was a rebuke of claims made from the ghost of Miltarov. He was making claims (pulled straight from his ass) that Russian subs/surface fleet were made and supplied with sub-standard steel, heavily implying the US navy had better quality steel in their subs.

    That is a bit unfair... I have read a lot of reports about the poor standard of metallurgy in Russia in various periods too but being used to reading such crap from usually western biased sources I choose to ignore them... Miltarov gave some he had seen more weight than I would. I don't remember him arguing with Mindstorm when he provided real numbers and properly sourced information...

    And there where no accidents have a result, no problems and US subs continue to operate at a much greater volume then Russian subs.

    Don't get me wrong it's stupid it went on for that long.

    It is scandalous... surely they should have noticed some of the steel didn't wield the same as other sheets... Margins for safety are usually pretty broad but the fact that there have been no accidents is either a huge amount of luck or perhaps part of a serious coverup...

    USA's fuckups do not absolve Russia of hers and vice versa

    But you only ever whine about the Russian problems and to take all your posts together you would think no one else has any problems except those idiots in Russia that should all be fired... I mean even now where is the tirade... even ignoring the blatant corruption of not reporting the lying... it means Americas main supplier of high strength steel for nuclear submarines only gets it right half the time, and clearly bribe the testing company to hide the failures... no wonder they bought it... clearly the people responsible at Bradken have retired or don't give a shit any more because otherwise they would have covered their tracks better.

    When a kid fails a test and says ''other kid failed too'' it doesn't change the fact that he himself still failed

    When the bully in the room fails tests he is hardly in the best position to criticise other kids for failing some times too especially when to listen to him he never gets anything wrong. Ironically in this case because the kid doing the complaining cleans the white board and couldn't do what the kids in this class do... none of us here could...

    But even after they notified the NAVY they made the impression it affected only few shipment, and was a human error:

    So even after they realised the fraud they downplayed it... hahahaha...

    There is also NO evidence to support any commissioned subs were made with the steel, before the metal is attached to the hull they test it and if its bad they don't use it.

    So if that is true they rejected half the steel they received to make submarine hulls even though it was passed testing before they received it... why did they need to wait until they were told there was a problem...

    Sounds like something you are making up.


    I am also no denying what happened, I am simply denying the metal was used on submarines because it wasn't. Basicly she lied about results and sold pieces of steel to the navy that didn't pass tests and was caught.

    She was caught after doing it for 30 years... if they tested and rejected half the steel they got from this company why didn't they notice sooner... and what are they doing with all this substandard steel?

    Yes the Navy does, this after all if they didn't. Then they would have accepted the shipment and simply built the subs with them but no, its standard practice to test the metal before you put it on the submarines just encase something happened to it over time.

    You mean test it twice... because it comes from the factory already tested by another company in Tacoma...

    That is how the Navy realized what was going on, some bad batches are to be expected but enough batches back to back simply alerted the navy and again it was only half of the batches not even all of it.

    Dude... half the batches they have received for 30 years... 480 batches of steel over a 30 year period used for all the SSNs and SSBNs built in that time period... of which half are faulty...

    It is not the end of the world... but now that they are going to focus on the Arctic it might start to become noticeable when US submarines made in the last 30 years start having problems... like that British ship that needs cold water to cool its engine so the warm waters of the med made it over heat... except this will be steel that becomes brittle in cold temperatures and you get leaks in places you don't want leaks in.... I am sure they will be fine...


    You have so far not given any reason or evidence that the batches of steel in question were not used, only the repeated claim "my navy would neva do dat your just lying boo hoo".
    When will you nato fanboys grow up and realise that denying reality will not change it?

    A bit like the US Air Force would never put into service a supersonic fighter that can't operate its AB for more than 90 seconds making it a subsonic only aircraft that costs 120 million to buy and $80K per hour to operate....

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