Syrian Arab Army (SAA)

Syria OTR 21 Tochka ballistic missiles SRBM brigade گردان موشک بالستیک توچکا سوریه

Even though the war isn't over yet but it's been going on for over 6 yrs now I think everyone on this forum has a view on what equipment has served the SAA and Russian armed forces the best and what hasn't. So I thought it would be great to start a thread on the subject hopefully there won't be too much squabbling/disagreement lol.

My personal opinion the following has been a great success in terms of reliability and effectiveness. (I will focus mainly on SAA)

T-55
T-62
BMP-1&2
Mig-21
Mig-23
Su-22
Mi-24/35
2S1
BM-21
M-46 130mm
Zu-23-2
Zpu- 1/2/4
Zsu-23-4
Malyutka /AT-3 sagger
Konkurs / AT-5 spandrel
SPG-9
RPG-7
Tos-1

From list above most would agree these designs are pretty old and in western armed forces views out dated (apart from Tos-1). But what the Syrian conflict has proven is that in this type of conflict and length of conflict that you don't need modern systems and that older equipment and cheap equipment has been more suited to this type of conflict and even systems that were meant for a different purpose can be used effectively in a different role for example anti aircraft guns mounted on pickups/trucks and zsu 23-4 ground support role haven proven to be very deadly. And vehicles such as T-55 who's main gun would be useless against modern armour has proven to be the mainstay of the SAA reliable and cheap ammo has made it effective at destroying buildings and armour in this conflict then we have the M-46 artillery piece which is still proving to be reliable and durable despite the number of rounds it's had to fire. But I think a special mention has to made for the aircraft despite being outdated and worn have proven to be extremely vital to them mi-24, Su -22, mig-23 & mig-21 as well as a handful of L-39 and gazelle helicopters and a worthy mention of mi-8 transport heli's but the one I think deserves the most praise is the Mig - 21 mainly due to the age of the aircraft, reliability, and number of sorties and despite all this it's still going strong and proving to be useful.

It's a real shame that there wasn't footage/pics or mention of Tulpan, 160mm mortar, zsu-57-2, and s-23 180mm as Syria does have them and I am sure they would have been used. Also no mention of bdrm-2, Btr60/70 or PT-76 all could have been useful for recent river crossing no bridge needed. Another less seen vehicle is the MT-LB and I am pretty sure that many of them have been used with various creations mounted on top would have been great to see some pics.

Anyway what's your views?

George1 wrote:Differences between Iran and Russia regarding the future appearance of the Syrian army

According to the French bulletin Intelligence online in the article "Damas, tiraille entre milices iraniennes et reassurance russe", during the summit, which took place on August 28, 2017 with the participation of representatives of the General Staff of the Syrian Arab Army, as well as its Iranian and Russian patrons, were Deep contradictions on strategic issues between Russian and Iranian representatives regarding further actions were revealed.

 Thus, according to the source of the bulletin, familiar with the course of the talks, this meeting was held in the Syrian Defense Ministry with the participation of the commanders of the Russian and Iranian contingents fighting on the side of the Syrian Arab Army (SAA). Syrian President's brother Bashar Assad's brother, Maher Asad, who is the commander of the Republican Guard, and Ali Abdullah Ayub, the chief of the General Staff of the Syrian Arab Republic, and Kassem Suleymani, the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, took part in the meeting. Suleimani fiercely insisted on changing the strategy, which he claims since 2016.

In addition to creating a large paramilitary structure - the Syrian analogue of IRGC, which can be called the "Guard of the Republic", Sulejamni looks forward to the creation of a new autonomous military structure into which the remains of the regular Syrian army will flow. Moreover, Suleymani would like this structure to rely heavily on a militia formation, modeled after the Iranian militia of the Basijs. This militia, which will largely consist of Iraqi Shiites, Afghan Hazaras and members of the Lebanese Hezbollah movement, will make it possible to include armed groups from these peoples in the Syrian army.

But during this meeting, Lieutenant-General Sergei Rudskoy, who is the commander of Russian operations in Syria, strongly disagreed with the Iranian proposal. The Kremlin is a supporter of the approach within which it is planned to preserve the existing structure by re-equipping some of the army corps of the SAA with new technology. In particular, Rudskoy argues for the strengthening of the Syrian land forces by elite units. The Russian general insisted on turning to private Russian military companies for the protection of strategic facilities on Syrian territory. This will free Russian troops for more important theaters of military operations.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2841246.html

I'm late to this discussion here but I want to give my 2 cents worth.

I would wager the Russian idea is better as we have seen how IRGC trained groups like the NDF handle themselves. We heard about all the Iranian IRGC units who have perished. I think the IRGC is doing the best they can but I would wager their entire apparatus is rather dated and their methods are not nearly efficient enough. It has shown/proven that special forces units within Syria are the best bang for your buck units. Tiger forces, ISIS hunters and other special forces units have been doing a huge amount of the successful operations (not saying SAA don't but nothing compared to efficiency of the specops), and I think having a military that consists quite a few special forces units and the backbone of the SAA being support for them, is ideal. I can see Hezbollah and IRGC trained special forces units within the SAA but I don't see a similar approach to IRGC altogether.

I think the structure is fine as is but there needs to be significantly more training, better equipment (maybe not so much better but more night fighting capabilities, new counter insurgency capabilities, etc).

Does anyone know if the SAA used their KS-19 100mm and 52-Kingdom 85mm AA guns in the conflict? not as air defence but as an improvised artillery or direct fire support for ground troops (some armed forces have done this in the past) as they have mounted S-60 and 61-K on trucks. If so any pic's?

would be great to catalogue improvised weapon systems during the conflict there must be loads Inc upgrades

also anyone confirm that Syria has Sa-4 krug? I read in a book about cold war systems and stated Syria had it. is true? or did they have it but now no longer in service?

Interesting...

Syrian 302-mm multiple launch rocket system.

d_taddei2 wrote:Does anyone know if the SAA used their KS-19 100mm and 52-Kingdom 85mm AA guns in the conflict?  not as air defence but as an improvised  artillery or direct fire support for ground troops  (some armed forces have done this in the past) as  they have mounted S-60 and 61-K on trucks. If so any pic's?

would be great to catalogue improvised weapon systems during the conflict there must be loads Inc upgrades

also anyone confirm that Syria has Sa-4 krug? I read in a book about cold war systems and stated Syria had it. is true? or did they have it but now no longer in service?

These links can be near of what you want.

https://misterxanlisis.wordpress.com/2016/11/13/hezbollah-getting-armored-in-syria/
https://twitter.com/Objekt432Y/status/904058165402132480

Rare photo of a Syrian Smerch

A very detailed overview of the Syrian Army

https://www.mei.edu/publications/lion-and-eagle-syrian-arab-armys-destruction-and-rebirth

this is a bit of a beast, might not be the most accurate but the blast wave would be large and hideous.

tken from syrian army fb

"Don't be surprised if the Turkish military invested in brown pants now that they saw first hand what one of these things can do.
Golan-1000 short-range rocket launcher; Syrian 4th Armored Division."



https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=2783001661781198&set=a.349106328504089

another pic of the system.




Syria is believed to have at least 25 systems in service. The Golan-1000 launcher fires three unguided 500 millimeter-calibre massive rockets, with a range of 3-12km, carrying 500-kg of high-explosive fragmentation ammunition. It can fire its 3 rockets in 30 seconds and has a reload time of 30 seconds.The vehicle's launch system is operated remotely using a simple control pad

Isn't there an upgraded Russian Grad? Second hand Grads would be pretty cheap.


The Syrian military may purchase a Belarusian missile system to replace their current Russian Grad rockets, Avia.Pro reported on Wednesday.

According to the publication, the Syrian military may acquire the Belarusian Flute system, which they claim will be an upgrade from their current Grads.

“Syrian military experts are actively discussing the possibility of acquiring a large batch of Belarusian Flute multiple launch rocket systems, intending to replace the Russian Grad multiple-launch rocket systems with them,” Avia.Pro said.

“According to a number of sources, in comparison with Grad, Belarusian Flutes have a much larger range and they are capable of simultaneously firing up to 80 rockets,” they continued.

The publication said that the Belarusian Flute system will allow the Syrian military to fire 80 missiles per minute at any target, while covering a large area.

“Belarusian MLRS can launch 80 missiles at a target in a minute, covering a huge area. To combat jihadists, this weapon is simply indispensable – in comparison with them, the Grad seems to be a joke, ”the publication says.

The Syrian Army has been operating the Grad missile system for several years now; however, they have also developed their own MLRS launcher, which they have dubbed the ‘Golan’.



https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syria-may-purchase-belarusian-missile-system-report/

GarryB wrote:Doesn't look like a 122mm calibre weapon...

The Russians have all sorts of upgraded artillery rocket options...

Mini Grad.


Meanwhile, "We can see you"

I thought that system was firing a version of the air launched 80 mm unguided rocket.